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Valkyr 2.0: The Berserker Revival


Synpai
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It's been a while since the Valkyr hysteria change and feedback thread and our glorious rage kitten needs a bit more love which I hope this post will satisfy.

Please....for the love of all things holy do not get caught up in disputing stats like range being too low/too high. For the most part I avoided estimates, but on the off chance you see one you don't like know that I'm a firm believer in voicing concern, but testing to confirm.

 

 

 

Note: Hysteria counts as having claws equipped ;D.

 

[New] Passive (Ferocity):

  • Valkyr recovers quickly from being knocked down (as per Handspring); A cat does land on her feet after all.
  • Rather than being downed, Valkyr enters Hysteria, allowing her to fill her revive meter via melee kills or by reviving teammates. In this state she gains damage immunity and the Movement and Attack Speed benefits of Provacate and Warcry, but all ability use is disabled. Each time this passive is triggered its duration is reduced. The duration is affected by bleed out timer mods.
Spoiler
  • Though the knockdown recovery may be too much, it brings home the cat theme in my opinion and before a certain someone goes there about passives being simple, i think that's a thing of the past.

 

 

[New] Ability 1 (Provacate):

  • Valkyr covers herself in energy replicas of her former corpus bindings (electric energy chains), granting her a surge of movement speed that stacks on melee kills.
    • The duration of the surge is ~3s unmodded
    • The buff refreshes instead of stacking if the speed expires while the ability is still active
    • If Valkyr recasts over the duration, Provacate performs a Ripline Roll that causes her to furiously impact to target location with a chance to shock and pull nearby enemies. After impact, Valkyr bounces off and rolls in the air (as if under the effects of aim glide allowing her to recast at a lower cost). When "aim glide" duration end or melee occurs, Valkyr stops rolling.
  • Damaging enemies with melee attacks conveys a 10% chance to shock and pull nearby (Flat 12m) enemies to Valkyr.
  • While claws are equipped, taking damage conveys a ~3% chance to shock and pull attackers to Valkyr.

[New] Augment (Tantrum):

  • Valkyr instead slams (can be charged) dealing magnetic damage and repelling enemies and projectiles, like the Gantulyst, in a low-medium radius; no longer pulls enemies or grants movement speed, but subsequent casts bolster more range at the cost of slightly increased energy. 
  • While claws are equipped, Valkyr's outburst persists as energy cracks, slowing enemies
Spoiler
  • I know how to spell provocate, but it's more punny and works on both levels to reference the Prova :3
  • I, personally like when augments open up alternative ways to play, but I know it can be strenuous on the dev cycle.
  • Almost made the second wave force a slash proc, but I don't wanna see that Macro spam.

 

 

Ability 2 (Warcry):

  • Remove the slow
  • Make recastable
  • Allow her to instead grant a percentage of HER armor
    • This will give her a very interesting role as a support, though one could argue that she need not be more than a killing machine which is fair
  • While Claws are equipped, casting speed is improved

Augment (Eternal War):

  • Allow allies that get melee kills to grant ~1/3 of the duration increase, so it's not terrible if an Excal  slaughters everything in sight
  • While claws are equipped, improve the duration gain
Spoiler
  • So many abilities need to be more "Friendly" in that when you're required to get kills to buff allies, they shouldn't be worried about conflicting with you. Harrow's Covenant and Nidus' Larvae share this same issue.
  • The % of her armor is a bit of a stretch, but I always like asking for more than I know I'll get, that's how things work right? 

 

 

Ability 3 (Paralysis):

  • Valkyr's shields are sacrificed to grant charges
    • Number of charges scales with power strength and % of shields at time of cast.
  • So long as Valkyr has 1 charge she maintains a slowing aura; taking damage past a threshold she discharges an aura charge and stuns enemies in range.
    • Dependent on total shield and scaling with power strength meaning the less power strength or shields, the less damage needed to trigger
    • Charges can be used manually by using the ability again (possibly adding shields based on enemies stunned)
  • When claws are equipped, slowed enemies take extra damage from melee

Augment 3 (Prolonged Paralysis):

  • Paralysis now costs energy, but lasts over a duration. Enemies that come into the aura are instead halted for the ability duration
    • Functions similar to stasis, enemies take stealth damage multipliers instead of forcing finishers
Spoiler
  • I don't really have any real problems with Paralysis as is it's just that it's been made notably obsolete with the sheer number of alternative ways to open enemies to finishers including Operator abilities and Arcanes.

 


NOTE: Hysteria retains it's damage storing mechanic, lifesteal ON KILL, and status and crowd control immunity

Ability 4 (Hysteria):

  • Valkyr unleashes her claws granting damage invulnerability for a few seconds.
  • Secondary fire lunges to and slams at target location at a fixed range
  • After the period of invulnerability ends, Valkyr gains damage reduction (applies before armor) that improves based on damage dealt during the invulnerability phase.
  • Valkyr takes damage in growing increments over time from her stored damage  I.E:
    -2.5 HP/s at 0%
    -20 HP/s at 100%
  • Every time her drain increments 15%, Valkyr's base combo mulltiplier improves by .5
    • If you're currently maintaining a 2x it will put you at 2.5; should that reset you will start at 1.5 instead of 1; resets when Hysteria is disabled

Augment 4 (Hysteric Assault):

  • Allows Valkyr to use abilities when Ferocity is active
  • Valkyr's Talons range is improved based on combo counter, but kills have a chance to result in drain increments; no longer caps at 100% (maybe ~400%).
Spoiler
  • I thought about giving her an adaptation effect during the invulnerability duration, but with her passive change it seems a bit unnecessary to do more than increase her EHP, and that may be a bit too much considering the damage increase while hysteria is active
  • I figured giving her a brief invulnerability on activation would still allow for the panic button without being as it was previously
  • Hysteria getting lifesteal on kill is to make it so the drain isnt completely nullified or raised to the point of being unfair
  • Hysteric Assault is a big risk-reward, but I think it further drives home the rage mentality, punishing tunnel vision

 

 

I know my ideas are always over the top in some manners, but I think the intent behind these changes stay true:

  • Making her passive the point of her invulnerability instead of her 4th ability
  • Re-imagining ripline to pair well with the rest of her kit now that the movement system has changed
  • Allowing allies to benefit a bit more defensively as well as not making it a competition when using Eternal War.
  • Paralysis has just aged a bit, and with more tools at our disposal it'd be nice to see it re-imagined 
  • Hysteria was always a problem which was worked around to what we have now; I understand not wanting people in Hysteria all mission, but this was due to the invulnerability, with no real benefit to players enduring the drain. As for hysteric assault, it's a neat augment, but ultimately not practical. 
  • Adding synergy between her and claw use (ultimately giving synergy with Hysteria unless players choose to bring in claws)

 

At the end of the day I would find this fun and engaging with many avenues of play; There are some mechanics that are used from other abilities in warframe, but even then I'm sure this would need a decent amount of work, but the way I see it is much like open world spaces, we should see Warframe abilities evolve to allow more complexity.

Edited by Synpai
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I doubt DE it's gonna get rid of the invincibility for Hysteria at this point, and I wouldn't bet on her getting a revive mechanic, but everything else looks interesting. I agree that Ripline should probably get replaced.

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12 hours ago, Atsia said:

I doubt DE it's gonna get rid of the invincibility for Hysteria at this point, and I wouldn't bet on her getting a revive mechanic, but everything else looks interesting. I agree that Ripline should probably get replaced.

I mean I wouldn't bet on any of these changes, because depending on her rework schedule she may get a lot of love or very little depending on the next big thing DE are working on at the time, but it seems a bit cheap when she's already tanky naturally

12 hours ago, (PS4)jaegerbombtastic said:

Not crazy on hysteria’s or ripline’s change, but the warcry and paralysis is interesting.

For the sake of discussion what don't you like about them?

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1 hour ago, Synpai said:

 but it seems a bit cheap when she's already tanky naturally

Weell, only if you built her that way. Also, why a damage storing Mechanic when she would be taking damage anyway?

Edited by VPrime96
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I want better combos on her 4, something along the lines of Tempo Royalle, doesn't need to have the slams, but just way more movement and gap closing. 

Pending Range stat changes on mods, her claws also need some more range atm.

Also want Hysterical Assault to be baked into her 4 and act more like a manic takedown.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Wait, u want her to drain health and energy? Um no. Id like the energy increase to go away and instead hysteria give her a 90% dmg reduction... Leave the healing as is.

Hysteria still has it's healing; I will update it to note health drain only for now, but it may need a higher base than 15/s or Hysteria instead need refund health on kills instead of pure life steal.

Current implementation of DR as @VPrime96 and I talked about once does not apply armor you just get that resistance for which Hysteria could be an exception (In other words: I made note that I thought about giving her layered damage reduction that would be applied before her armor, but it seemed the same as having higher armor and health).

26 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Hmm, I'll get back to this.

One thing I'll say though is health or energy drain on Hysteria, Synpai, don't try for both. Personally, I'd go for health drain.

Yeah I noted that it seemed like a bit much, but it took along time to write this up and I needed to step away for a bit. Updated that bit.

As for the increase in drain over time (in general), I think it's fine here because you're getting something for enduring the drain. Taking on excess risk for a buff.

 

 

2 hours ago, Madway7 said:

I want better combos on her 4, something along the lines of Tempo Royalle, doesn't need to have the slams, but just way more movement and gap closing. 

Pending Range stat changes on mods, her claws also need some more range atm.

Also want Hysterical Assault to be baked into her 4 and act more like a manic takedown.

I decided to hold off on the combo stuff with Melee 3.0 being soon(TM). 

As for the range on her claws, I actually revamped Hysterical Assault to provide that though having the secondary fire lunge innate isn't terrible.

 

3 hours ago, VPrime96 said:

Weell, only if you built her that way.

You're not wrong....but this seems like a strange point to bring up. At base, she's still more durable than most other frames at base. I don't think mods refute that she's inherently tanky if you don't build to further this, then it's a trade off you're making. Much like modding a weapon like the Lenz for utility doesn't mean it doesnt still do a ton of damage, you just happen to value, and therefore build toward, something else than to heighten it's high base damage quality.

As for the stored damage portion, it's still a good mechanic. Basically, she's taking damage over time instead of directly, just re-purposing the stored damage mechanic. If the "bleed" becomes to much, you still have to try to get rid of that stored damage with no enemies around.

3 hours ago, NoLazyShadow said:

Now this is a really intresting rework idea. Too bad DE dont care about Valk anymore and currently creating her killer - Garuda

Thank you; I don't think Garuda quite takes over the things Valk does well.

Edited by Synpai
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On 2018-10-30 at 11:40 AM, Synpai said:

@VPrime96

 

You're not wrong....but this seems like a strange point to bring up. At base, she's still more durable than most other frames at base. I don't think mods refute that she's inherently tanky if you don't build to further this, then it's a trade off you're making. Much like modding a weapon like the Lenz for utility doesn't mean it doesnt still do a ton of damage, you just happen to value, and therefore build toward, something else than to heighten it's high base damage quality.

As for the stored damage portion, it's still a good mechanic. Basically, she's taking damage over time instead of directly, just re-purposing the stored damage mechanic. If the "bleed" becomes to much, you still have to try to get rid of that stored damage with no enemies around.

 

From the area i play her in which is Sortie or this:

2d7zlgp.png

Axi Fissure Ani, Void

auzjv6.png

Zabala, Eris

30hrint.png

(lvl 260+ Infested)

I tend to take very heavy damage as her which can be rough since she relies on Armor. The way i make her this Tanky is with 214% Power Strength since it gives her 90 - 91% DR from her Armor (95% if Adaption is active and fully stacked). The way Nidus survive so well is he got passive Regen, extra Regen from his 4th, 90% DR from his Parasitic Link, and a Undying Mechanic from his Passive which uses his Mutation Stacks and he can constantly build them up at the same time. Valkyr don't have Regen (only Life Steal), no Stack Mechanic, but as much DR she can get from Nidus Parasitic Link with Armor and Invinicibility. The problem about using 214% Power Strength without Efficiency Mods is Warcry becomes very Expensive (115 Energy i think). So yeah.

Edited by VPrime96
Messed this post up.
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6 hours ago, VPrime96 said:

From the area i play her in which is Sortie or this:

Very few sortie enemies have the opportunity to outright drop Valkyr without hysteria (assuming you've built to be durable); I too play 90% Valkyr and don't need to touch Hysteria to be viable in "balanced" content. By that I mean DE don't balance around the level 250+

Regardless, it would deal the damage over time which I felt to be more of a compromise between straight invulnerability and DR (since increasing her health and armor based on the invuln phase is an active way for players to make themselves more durable). I can't say for fact it would work, but it seems like an interesting alteration to me

Edited by Synpai
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hysteria change is bad. the rest is interesting but the hysteria changes are just bad. limiting her tankyness to combo counter...u are aware that not everyone plays for combo counter and this way u force a build style specifically. the idea would be bad even with another requirement but this especially would kill her completely for me even though i mainly use eternal war...

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3 hours ago, Lluminate said:

Honestly I don't think she needs a bleedout mechanic. Her current passive is already one of the more useful ones. If she was to get one, though, I do like your idea.

Thanks ^-^. For sure, I think handspring might be faster recovery than what she has now. it's still thematic, so I didn't get rid of it, merely added on to it, but yeah very unlikely to happen.

3 hours ago, Lluminate said:

Now this is cool. To clarify, this is just sprint speed, right? Not general movement speed like Volt?

Correct! I'm not sure if that now falls under Parkour Velocity as well.

 

3 hours ago, Lluminate said:

I guess this one just seems a little off because she has no way to restore the loss of shields, and with the way most people play her, she rarely has enough downtime to recharge them. I think for this to work she would need some way to manually recharge her own shield, but that doesn't really fit with her thematically.

Yeah, bad brain is bad. Though it's possible to make it so that the explosion restores shields based on enemies hit (or killed during paralysis); or just making the duration be based partially on % of shields kind of like Harrow's penance. 

 

3 hours ago, Lluminate said:

This is where you lost me. You kind of take away Valkyr's ability to survive at higher levels here. Without invincibility, lifesteal only on kill, and draining health (!) she could easily be burst down by high level enemies before she can kill them to regain health.

I'm in favor of the idea others have mentioned: taking away the insane energy drain in exchange for strong damage reduction instead of invincibility.

 

3 hours ago, Xydeth said:

hysteria change is bad. the rest is interesting but the hysteria changes are just bad. limiting her tankyness to combo counter...u are aware that not everyone plays for combo counter and this way u force a build style specifically. the idea would be bad even with another requirement but this especially would kill her completely for me even though i mainly use eternal war...

I think we need to define high level.

If we're talking flat 90% DR as DR works now (doesn't take into account armor reduction) You'd still be put down by the scaling of enemies considering some valk builds get over 2000 armor (before warcry and arcane guardian) which is ~75+% DR, at what level....I haven't a clue.

Now something I am still racking around in the noggin is Flat DR applying before Armor DR in the case of hysteria. Basically 50% DR (likely less) from the ability and then ~75% Damage reduction from armor (basically only taking 12.5% of damage) would still result in you being dead at some point due to how enemies scale, but considering you could get hit with 10,000 damage and only take 1,250 I'm not sure the enemies ever really reach that level. But DE have stated multiple times that they want to convey "bite sized" warfame content compared to what we've experienced before; if arbitrations have shown us anything they don't really WANT us engaging in level 200+ content, of course we CAN (heck how strong some of the mods make us I can turn my brain of on even squishy frames at level 150 I know the ideals behind endurance runs).

But it's debatable if we should have invulnerability, think about the reverse. The bosses we have now with invulnerability phases: they're not engaging. I'm not saying it's fair for us to get one shot by corpus techs with a 200 bullet clip (really why do you have all those bullets e-e) but do two non-engaging wrongs make a right?

 

Regardless, the Hysteria change was to coincide with the passive. It's a one or the other ordeal and though invulnerability scales better it's pretty cheap. 

As for the combo counter portion, I didn't mean to imply that if you did nothing you got nothing. The ability would have a base health and armor increase that is improved based on power strength and combo counter. It was the only way to imply that it was hits done and not kills while still allowing for things like relentless combination style optimization if people so chose, but the better way to denote this is to say scales with  "damage dealt during the invulnerability phase" as opposed to Damage taken like Iron Skin, so I'll update that bit.

I mean Flat DR or bonus health and armor either way it's increasing her EHP. It's all the same to me.

Edited by Synpai
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vor 24 Minuten schrieb Synpai:

Regardless, the Hysteria change was to coincide with the passive. It's a one or the other ordeal and though invulnerability scales better it's pretty cheap. 

As for the combo counter portion, I didn't mean to imply that if you did nothing you got nothing. The ability would have a base health and armor increase that is improved based on power strength and combo counter. It was the only way to imply that it was hits done and not kills while still allowing for things like relentless combination style optimization if people so chose, but the better way to denote this is to say scales with  "damage dealt during the invulnerability phase" as opposed to Damage taken like Iron Skin, so I'll update that bit.

I mean Flat DR or bonus health and armor either way it's increasing her EHP. It's all the same to me.

then she should have a special counter for hits done during that time rather than going for combo counter because that would only really benefit such builds. hysteria isnt known for high range so especially on some tiles/mission types that could really matter. it would in both cases but if she had a special timer of her own u also wouldnt see things like 5.5 combo multiplier affecting that. will see how melee 3.0 changes that so maybe suggesting a combo counter influence there would make even less sense. another reason to maybe make it a special counter.

Edited by Xydeth
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10 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

then she should have a special counter for hits done during that time rather than going for combo counter because that would only really benefit such builds. hysteria isnt known for high range so especially on some tiles/mission types that could really matter. it would in both cases but if she had a special timer of her own u also wouldnt see things like 5.5 combo multiplier affecting that. will see how melee 3.0 changes that so maybe suggesting a combo counter influence there would make even less sense. another reason to maybe make it a special counter.

I also thought that the way combo counter works currently wouldn't be effective, but it was the best way to convey my thoughts at the time. For now I think the flat DR applying before armor, but being improved based on damage dealt during the invulnerability phase just simplifies it all.

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5 hours ago, Lluminate said:

I'm in favor of the idea others have mentioned: taking away the insane energy drain in exchange for strong damage reduction instead of invincibility.

On this note, invincibility or not, I think the increased drain is fine so long as you get something out of it (higher damage and crit chance if using gladiator mods), but it could also attribute to an increase in damage reduction over time, though I think that is Chroma levels of annoyance in regards to tanking even if it started out at a decent amount. I think having the base and dealing damage to improve is the better meld of the mechanics.

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6 minutes ago, Synpai said:

On this note, invincibility or not, I think the increased drain is fine so long as you get something out of it (higher damage and crit chance if using gladiator mods), but it could also attribute to an increase in damage reduction over time, though I think that is Chroma levels of annoyance in regards to tanking even if it started out at a decent amount. I think having the base and dealing damage to improve is the better meld of the mechanics.

I wish Chroma had his old DR because he's the only Frame where you have to take damage to become Tanky (which got worse after his Calculation change). He can still build up a lot of Armor but with the Calculations he got now, he's not in a good place. Valkyr Prime's EHP can be at 10K, 17K with Adaption, or 15K With Quick Thinking and normal Flow so it's not like Valkyr is super Tanky from just Warcry. But the increased Drain, not that big of a deal for me.

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1 hour ago, VPrime96 said:

After i posted this Screenshot, I was amazed at the amount of damage in one tick. 18K on a enemy with 99.39% DR is a serious Slash Proc.

No joke and even more damage comes from slide attacks. It's pretty horrifying. Also I think that armor applies to slash as a damage type, but not the slash status effect (bleed)

 

17 hours ago, VPrime96 said:

I wish Chroma had his old DR because he's the only Frame where you have to take damage to become Tanky (which got worse after his Calculation change). He can still build up a lot of Armor but with the Calculations he got now, he's not in a good place. Valkyr Prime's EHP can be at 10K, 17K with Adaption, or 15K With Quick Thinking and normal Flow so it's not like Valkyr is super Tanky from just Warcry.

Yeah Chroma is a pet peeve of mine at times.

Yeah also depends on umbral build vs non umbral build and guardian vs non guardian, but it for sure can get up there.

 

Considering having the range from Hysteric Assault scale with the drain increments, just to remove the combo counter jazz.

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