M.O.V.G.A. (Make Orb Vallis Great Again)

[Rakosta_Kai]

34 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

I already wrote what you suggest 😉

And also, we already rowed back to say "only the last bounty should feature prepatch gameplay", and i also said "rewards from stage 5 should be on stage 4 aswell, so no exclusive rewards". How is that selfish if you want 1 out of 5 bountys with the gameplay you liked and accept that everything else (4 bountys + free roam) remains in the new state?

But you really didn't... Ore rather, you didn't stick to it.

Which is rather my point.

5 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

 

...I would be happy if they let me chose before starting bountys that i want the "completly overpowered Corpus that shred each Frame to pieces in a heartbeat"  😛 that we had before the hotfix. Then i get matched with only people that have chosen the same option. Everyone who doesnt like it can chose the new enemies that we have now post-hotfix.

 

And no, i dont want any extra reward for that, i only care about the gameplay which i really liked 😉

You had a good idea here..

4 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

But yes, i would have no problem with it if the first 3 or 4 bountys were easy and only the 5th bounty would provide the gameplay i am looking for.

80% of the Content would be for the people that dont want a challenge and 20% of the Content would be for people that are looking for a slight challenge.

Rewards shouldnt be exclusive to Stage 5 Bounty then, every reward should be obtainable from Stage 4 Bounty aswell.

Then you walked it back here.

3 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

 

- somewhat engaging gameplay in which you have to try just a little bit to actually recieve the bonus

- not a boring snoozefest in which 3 people can go mine and fish while 1 person is doing the bounty

- simply the gameplay we had before the patch

- if that prepatch gameplay was something you could call endgame, why have there been any topics in this forum or youtubers making videos with titles like "finally the endgame we always wanted" "Warframe has Endgame now" and so on? so could you plz stop saying we are asking for endgame when we only want the prepatch gameplay with stronger enemies in 1 out of 5 bountys at least?

 

...and here.

1 hour ago, DreisterDino said:

Ok, so i (OP aswell) take our time to answer your questions and try to explain everything in detail.

We try to be polite and calm and even took your opinions into consideration and reduced our wish to only 1 of 5 bountys instead of just applying it to everything in Fortuna to find a compromise (that is usually the goal of a discussion btw).

...and here.

Your idea still affects others to fit suit you...Which is why you are getting pushback.

Personally, I think people that want the extra challenge should have reasonable access to it...But not at the expense of those that might not.

...Your idea does the latter. 

 

 

[DreisterDino]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Gabbynaru:

How is it an inconvenience that they made it a little easier to succeed? That's the point of this game, and any game in existence. Succeeding. Winning. They made it a little easier for that to happen. What's the problem?

Less challenge, less fun, at least for some people.

 

There was a game i once played (not remember the title), there was a passage where you had to "balance" your character over a narrow cliff or something and it looked really dangerous. as soon as i found out that i couldnt fall down no matter which buttons i press, that whole section became a joke and was simply annoying because it took long while it was boring because there was no threat at all. Yes i succeeded, but because there wasnt even the possibility of not succeeding, how can that be a rewarding feeling?

 

Zitat

But you really didn't... Ore rather, you didn't stick to it.

I simply offered 2 ways of how to handle it, 2 options.

Edited November 13, 2018 by DreisterDino

[Gabbynaru]

1 minute ago, DreisterDino said:

Less challenge, less fun, at least for some people.

 

There was a game i once played (not remember the title), there was a passage where you had to "balance" your character over a narrow cliff or something and it looked really dangerous. as soon as i found out that i couldnt fall down no matter which buttons i press, that whole section became a joke and was simply annoying because it took long while it was boring because there was no threat at all. Yes i succeeded, but because there wasnt even the possibility of not succeeding, how can that be a rewarding feeling?

Fun is a very subjective reasoning though. As long as the end result is the same, challenge is but an annoyance and possibly a waste of time, which we all know we have a limited amount of. The interactivity doesn't change between a level 1 and a level 100 mission, as such, there is no reason to try the level 100 mission, when the level 1 mission is just as "fun", and likely quicker to finish.

So, explain to me why, objectively, a more challenging mission is more beneficial. Because it's not "fun". "Fun" is not the reason. "Fun" is subjective, as you said. So give me an objective reason why it would make the game better. Or rather how it would make the game better. As I said, the way I see it, the interactivity doesn't change regardless of difficulty. So other than selfish, subjective reasons such as "fun", I don't see how increased difficulty would make a game better. So please, enlighten me.

[DerGreif2]

There is a reason for bounty level and rewards for them... you also cont get mesa or Saryn as a MR5. Why should you play bounties with level 60+ without any problems? It's fine that they nerfed it but the 4 and 5th bounty should be for higher level player. I would suggest:

 

A rank 5 bounty has a level one alarm as DEFAULT! Yes you read it right.

More damage for level 40+ level enemies (like before the nerf). You know that level 40+ is along the line of the LAST PLANET in the star chart? A new player should not have no problems with that.

The beacons for rank 4 and 5 could just be hacked but not destroyed and the level 5 could not be solved with a chipper.

 

New players should not be given all things of fortuna. PoE is to easy a d people maybe have gotten used to it to win all fights and never die. This should stop. And fortuna was a brilliant place! I feared some units to pop up! That is such a great feeling not to be OP and unkillable with anything.

 

Fortuna is accessible for new players that should not mean that they should do all things possible even without a good setup... there a level bounties for a reason.

[(XBOX)Clockwork Geoff]

4 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Fun is a very subjective reasoning though. As long as the end result is the same, challenge is but an annoyance and possibly a waste of time, which we all know we have a limited amount of. The interactivity doesn't change between a level 1 and a level 100 mission, as such, there is no reason to try the level 100 mission, when the level 1 mission is just as "fun", and likely quicker to finish.

So, explain to me why, objectively, a more challenging mission is more beneficial. Because it's not "fun". "Fun" is not the reason. "Fun" is subjective, as you said. So give me an objective reason why it would make the game better. Or rather how it would make the game better. As I said, the way I see it, the interactivity doesn't change regardless of difficulty. So other than selfish, subjective reasons such as "fun", I don't see how increased difficulty would make a game better. So please, enlighten me.

Agreed - and also hardcore gameplay isn't what the game is about - it's about chasing that RNG. Warframe is too chaotic to make it a skill based, hardcore game like Dark Souls.

There is higher level content which people can't access, i.e. arbitration. But these bounties are just for farming really. 

Want a challenge? Take off some mods. 

[disco_inferno6]

8 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Fun is a very subjective reasoning though. As long as the end result is the same, challenge is but an annoyance and possibly a waste of time, which we all know we have a limited amount of. The interactivity doesn't change between a level 1 and a level 100 mission, as such, there is no reason to try the level 100 mission, when the level 1 mission is just as "fun", and likely quicker to finish.

So, explain to me why, objectively, a more challenging mission is more beneficial. Because it's not "fun". "Fun" is not the reason. "Fun" is subjective, as you said. So give me an objective reason why it would make the game better. Or rather how it would make the game better. As I said, the way I see it, the interactivity doesn't change regardless of difficulty. So other than selfish, subjective reasons such as "fun", I don't see how increased difficulty would make a game better. So please, enlighten me.

Without challenge, a game isn't a game: at best, it's an interactive movie. And while there are "game-movies" which are successful,

developing one is closer to a movie maker's skill set than a game designer's.

So when playing a game, players generally want a challenge. But, importantly, they want a challenge they can complete.

The only question is, how difficult should that be.

A difficult game should be one which pushes a player into mastering their skills, rather than forcing them to repeat something over and over until they make a mistake or (even worse) grinding while afk.

Edited November 13, 2018 by disco_inferno6

[DreisterDino]

Gerade eben schrieb Gabbynaru:

Fun is a very subjective reasoning though. As long as the end result is the same, challenge is but an annoyance and possibly a waste of time, which we all know we have a limited amount of. The interactivity doesn't change between a level 1 and a level 100 mission, as such, there is no reason to try the level 100 mission, when the level 1 mission is just as "fun", and likely quicker to finish.

So, explain to me why, objectively, a more challenging mission is more beneficial. Because it's not "fun". "Fun" is not the reason. "Fun" is subjective, as you said. So give me an objective reason why it would make the game better. Or rather how it would make the game better. As I said, the way I see it, the interactivity doesn't change regardless of difficulty. So other than selfish, subjective reasons such as "fun", I don't see how increased difficulty would make a game better. So please, enlighten me.

What?

 

Yes fun is subjective. Thats why i added "for some people" after less challenging=less fun

If you agree that fun=subjective, you gotta agree that for some people this is true: more challenge=more fun

 

Right after saying fun is subjective, you make the general assumption that challenging missions are not fun.

That is the same as saying, fun is not subjective. Because you directly imply that i simply cannot have more fun if a mission is more difficult.

 

That doesnt make any sense.

 

For me challenge is NOT = nothing but an annoyance and possibly waste of a time, that is a wrong statement FOR SOME PLAYERS

So yeah, there is a big difference for me in fighting lvl 1 enemies over fighting lvl 100 enemies, because those lvl1 enemies are like the cliff i cant fall off

[(XBOX)Clockwork Geoff]

26 minutes ago, disco_inferno6 said:

You seem to be under the impression that you are hiring Engineers or Developers on behalf of DE.

Let me fix that for you. We are both customers of DE. That's it.

And again - Still no constructive feedback to your own thread.

That you started. 

[disco_inferno6]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Clockwork Geoff said:

And again - Still no constructive feedback to your own thread.

That you started. 

I did.

You simply failed to pay attention.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, disco_inferno6 said:

Without challenge, a game isn't a game: at best, it's an interactive movie. And while there are "game-movies" which are successful,

developing one is closer to a movie maker's skill set than a game designer's.

So when playing a game, players generally want a challenge. But, importantly, they want a challenge they can complete.

The only question is, how difficult should that be.

A difficult game should be one which pushes a player into mastering their skills, rather than forcing them to repeat something over and over until they make a mistake.

But when has it ever happened that trash is actually a challenge in an rpg, arpg or looter shooter? Because that is what you are hung up on, a nerf effecting trash mobs. The "challenging" mobs are still the same. All this did was tone down the cannonfodders in Vallis, nothing else. So if you really play with high alert levels the difference will be minimal and very likely unnoticable.

[Edzhang]

Im not trying to defend OP here, but i personally feel that what we have before the hotfix is better than right now.. but if some new player feel it’s too hard, then what if DE keep this damage nerf, up the bounty 5 level to match the challenge level back to where it is pre hotfix.. for new players, they can still do bounty 1-4, and other stuff in star chart.. they should’ve known if they didnt have maxed mods or weapon, dont do higher level stuff until they’re ready (the same for me when i started doing sortie at mr 13 because i was lack on maxed mods)

[Lowsodium]

58 minutes ago, disco_inferno6 said:

Without challenge, a game isn't a game: at best, it's an interactive movie. And while there are "game-movies" which are successful,

developing one is closer to a movie maker's skill set than a game designer's.

So when playing a game, players generally want a challenge. But, importantly, they want a challenge they can complete.

The only question is, how difficult should that be.

A difficult game should be one which pushes a player into mastering their skills, rather than forcing them to repeat something over and over until they make a mistake or (even worse) grinding while afk.

This game has always been trivial with a group of competent people with some synergy in their frame choice. The challenge used to come from the clan events and the competition therein.

I'll agree that a game should test the players mastery on some level, Warframe is not that game. Over my years of playing it and seeing the changes DE makes to it, I get the feeling DE doesn't want to make that game either. They want to make a nifty looking Skinner-box and churn out content for the majority of players to consume.

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

I simply offered 2 ways of how to handle it, 2 options.

While true...It certainly doesn't take a genius to figure out which option you favor.😃

All in all though I think you have every right to your opinion...I am merely reminding that the action item to get what you want would have had fewer detractors if it didn't affect people who didn't want any part of it.

...So consider advocating options that don't.

[Orblit]

Ahhh yes, getting one shot and just spinning around going "what just hit me?" is considered challenging is it?

Though some of the avoidable things like the mines and etc could've been left alone..you can see those..

[KommandantViy]

10 hours ago, pig666eon said:

you just going to skip over the fact that there is 5 levels of bountys? no one said fortuna is end game, people are complaining that the highest level of bountys is being brought down to cater to casuals when there is bountys available to even the newest of players there already. right now fortuna is open to everyone to play there is nothing stopping people to play and having the level 5 bounty hard wasnt stopping anyone from playing it. if your new then go get geared up by playing the actual game not just dlc and come back when your ready to do hard missions. the level 5 bounty was the only thing remotely challenging about the bountys for me or anyone else who isnt brand new to the game but thats now not the case so bountys 1-5 is now just fodder and mst of us are just going through the motions now to get either standings or rewards

Aren't familial debt-bonds necessary for some crafting though? If so and the level 5 bounties are the only way to obtain them then they *can't* be super end-game meta-build level hard. I would instead propose a level 6 "elite" bounty level that is much more difficult but has the rare drops from all the other bounties as common, that way people will get a challenge, and while they won't get anything exclusive, they would be able to get the rarer loot more often if they can consistently complete said bounties, and it could mean that they wouldn't have to ever do the lower level bounties they dislike at all, and could instead rely on the level 6 ones to get what they need. Either that, or they could just make level 5 bounties back to their old difficulty, but make familial bonds a chance drop from level 4 bounties or something.

I just don't like materials needed for crafting being exclusive to difficult meta content, as it locks many players out of it that way.

[Birkenhoff]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Gabbynaru:

Fun is a very subjective reasoning though. As long as the end result is the same, challenge is but an annoyance and possibly a waste of time, which we all know we have a limited amount of. The interactivity doesn't change between a level 1 and a level 100 mission, as such, there is no reason to try the level 100 mission, when the level 1 mission is just as "fun", and likely quicker to finish.

So, explain to me why, objectively, a more challenging mission is more beneficial. Because it's not "fun". "Fun" is not the reason. "Fun" is subjective, as you said. So give me an objective reason why it would make the game better. Or rather how it would make the game better. As I said, the way I see it, the interactivity doesn't change regardless of difficulty. So other than selfish, subjective reasons such as "fun", I don't see how increased difficulty would make a game better. So please, enlighten me.

Selfish, subjective reasons such as fun? Dude, have you ever thought about it that there're people who don't want to play this game by just spamming 4? Anyway I'm save to say that we're all selfish and subjective since we're all playing for fun. Some people just have another definition of fun than yours. 

Btw, why are you that personal aggressive in all of your posts? Is it that hard to take a look at other peoples point of view or is posting on forums some kind of challenge or serious business to you?

[CoolDudeMcCool]

I think feedback on the alert levels would be more fitting than asking for changing base bounty difficulty and stuff.

[Korusagi]

Just... Too soon.

No Orb fights yet.

Perhaps the challenge one seeks will be found there, when it's finally finished. One can only hope.

[Althaline]

The thing that OP seems to have missed is that the nerfs mostly affected the dumb homing AOE nukes that could oneshot anything short of a Rhino who'd just cast Iron Skin, and the ridiculous area denial that even after the nerfs is still very threatening. Everything that got changed was either a large AOE or an out-of-nowhere oneshot nuke. I'm totally fine with trash-tier enemies not having oneshot capabilities at level 30.

As a side note, the enemies are literally tougher than all 3 Eidolons at cap, so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that there's no challenge in the current patch.

[ZesiMuerte]

12 hours ago, (XB1)Clockwork Geoff said:

Agreed - and also hardcore gameplay isn't what the game is about - it's about chasing that RNG. Warframe is too chaotic to make it a skill based, hardcore game like Dark Souls.

There is higher level content which people can't access, i.e. arbitration. But these bounties are just for farming really. 

Want a challenge? Take off some mods. 

What is with so many threads complaining about Orb Vallis. I actually felt that since the map is on Venus, then the mobs in there should feel like the mobs in other nodes on Venus.

However, I believe they should create some higher level bounties/missions in there so everyone has a chance to access and play on the map.

Off topic: I lol at people in this forum talking about RNG.

You guys should try Path Of Exile, then you will understand the blessing and the cruelty of RNG Gods. Warframe's RNG don't even come close.

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by ZesiMuerte

[(XBOX)Clockwork Geoff]

10 hours ago, KommandantViy said:

I just don't like materials needed for crafting being exclusive to difficult meta content, as it locks many players out of it that way.

Precisely - locking people out of necessary drops so some players can find it 'somewhat challenging'

[DreisterDino]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Clockwork Geoff:

Precisely - locking people out of necessary drops so some players can find it 'somewhat challenging'

NO!

 

Zitat

I would be happy if they let me chose before starting bountys that i want the "completly overpowered Corpus that shred each Frame to pieces in a heartbeat"  😛 that we had before the hotfix. Then i get matched with only people that have chosen the same option. Everyone who doesnt like it can chose the new enemies that we have now post-hotfix.

 

And no, i dont want any extra reward for that, i only care about the gameplay which i really liked 😉

and in case of stage 5 bounty being harder i also said MULTIPLE TIMES THAT:

REWARDS FROM BOUNTY 5 SHOULD ALSO BE ON BOUNTY 4 SO THERE ARE NO EXLUSIVE REWARDS!

 

[NaoEthelia]

Please make Orb Vallis challenging again. If you are concerned with newbies getting steamrolled, make a 6th level bounty instead!

[pig666eon]

11 hours ago, KommandantViy said:

Aren't familial debt-bonds necessary for some crafting though? If so and the level 5 bounties are the only way to obtain them then they *can't* be super end-game meta-build level hard. I would instead propose a level 6 "elite" bounty level that is much more difficult but has the rare drops from all the other bounties as common, that way people will get a challenge, and while they won't get anything exclusive, they would be able to get the rarer loot more often if they can consistently complete said bounties, and it could mean that they wouldn't have to ever do the lower level bounties they dislike at all, and could instead rely on the level 6 ones to get what they need. Either that, or they could just make level 5 bounties back to their old difficulty, but make familial bonds a chance drop from level 4 bounties or something.

I just don't like materials needed for crafting being exclusive to difficult meta content, as it locks many players out of it that way.

level 5 bountys werent meta content, it was at a level where you didnt just stand around waiting for it to finish, anyone who had a good frame and weapon could easily do it. a level 6 bounty would be welcomed but wont they just be giving out that its too hard? just like the level 5... if your not able to do a mission then you need to play the game more thats the way i see it, you shouldnt have access to everything as a new player regardless of it being new dlc or not, if a new planet came past sedena which is high level should it be made easy for new players because its new content? we have been calling out for high end content forever but this just shows the direction DE are going and its just pandering to new players. was the l5 bounty not accessible to anyone who has played the game for a few weeks? absolutely not... the only people who benefit from this is people starting the game going straight into fortuna expecting all content from day 1, it cripples the rest of the player base in doing so who are looking for harder content. the hole thing is a destiny move and look how that turned out, why am i spending plat to forma weapons and other things to get stronger when they can just lower the difficulty to pander to people who the majority are only just trying out the game

[Zanagan]

Was dissapointed beyond words when i found out about the nerf.  This has been a trend in video games as of late where players demand content that poses no challenge to them.   This, to me, is incredibly damaging to both the game and the development of its community.  I am honestly amazed that Warframe has the player retention that it does despite the fact that NOTHING - not a single enemy or fight in this game - is even remotely difficult.  No need for raids or teamwork as the right overpowered frame can destroy ANYTHING or any combination of things in its path.  I am truly sorry that new players were unable to go straight to the newest content in the game and wreck upon it with great and unstoppable ferocity (NOT) but unless i am mistaken the whole point in the mastery rank system was to force players to work toward being more powerful so that they could access more difficult content.  I had awesome experiences prior to the nerf where me and my whole team had to work together to triumph over the enemies, and it was hands down one of the best recent experiences in Warframe.  Epic new content should be locked up behind an epic difficulty door.  Thats how its supposed to be.  If you want to watch some pretty visuals and not be required to utilize any skill or even your cognitive capabilities, then go watch Avatar and stop demanding that devs ruin good games for the rest of us.  Thanks for reading.  Make Orb Vallis Great Again.  Please.,