RealHeftyTrout

A possible solution to leeching?

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12 hours ago, ThumpumGood said:

Read the whole thread... Im for a kick feature that requires 3 people to agree to kick. And I dont worry about getting kicked. If my style doesnt match the other 3, why force anyone to suffer? I self kicked from a group that kept popping life support at 70%. Styles dont match. There was a convo first... 
Me: Stop hitting the life support til it gets to between 30 and 40%
Him I hit em whenever I want to. 

I didnt say another word, I just left. I want to be able to kick people like that or people who are making it harder on everyone else by not participating. NPCs scale to the number of people in the group. At least on Orb Vallis. And if there are 4 in the group but one is farming ore, fishing, etc... they are hosing the other three and SHOULD be kicked. 

You must be one of those people I wanna kick. Admit it. It's not an angry thing. It's a play style difference. You shouldnt have to put up with my need for spe3ed and I shouldnt have to deal with your disregaurd for the rest of the group.

That is the case here just it is ok for you that you can be kicked by abusing the system  does not mean it's ok for ever1, and thats prime example why we should look for solution that will make every1 happy. Not just you or me.

Kick feature will be abused. I would love to abuse it, and many ppl like me would abuse it like i would, and thats the reason why it's a bad idea.
You don't get it? Ok so.
You are frustrated by actions (or lack of action in this case) of other players. But you want a system which will add an option that can be abused so other players will feel frustration from other players abusing it. Is it that hard to understand?

Im mr26 i have every thing unlocked i could except 2 weapons from daily tribute and all i do in warframe is tridolon hunts.
I don't believe i have meta build on anything but i feel overpowered AF. I don't need any resource from this game anymore (6k energy restore large which is only thing i need but well i have now enough), i don't need to get anything from this game, i only could get something if i want to.
But for sure not stones or fishes or standing for vent kids. Even relics is NOT a way of making money for me anymore so i don't need to any bounty to farm them.
So when i do only fun i have out of it is to in fact kill something there or do some mission in it, so more afk/leechers/incompetent players there = more stuff to kill for me.
So yeah i'm for sure that 1 person that keeps leeching on bounties.
I would prefer to stay afk on my orbiter or run around arsenal as we all do.

I don't want or need to defend afk/leechers/incompetent players because they can't do me any harm in fact i benefit from it, and you could benefit from it also, it's just the fact you prefer a punishment feature and thats the problem.

12 hours ago, .Re-light. said:

About 90% of my game play is pub. 10% is solo or with friends. If there is an afk person in mission (and I don't encounter that often) - that just means more spawns, more loot and more exp for the rest of us. Can any of you explain to me in plain English why do we have this topic almost every week for the last 5 years when you can always go invite only and play with friends?

 

   Such a non issue..


i try to explain to this guys exact same thing from over 1 week with same success as my nick indicates.
And i start to believe why ppl like me or you don't comment on posts like this more often.
Ppl here just don't get the basic benefits which you describe or are just unexperienced/unprepared  enough and can't do missions carrying everyone and getting more fun out of them.

And pointing that out to them starts s##t storm. So trust me leave this post while you can.

Edited by ZeroZX4
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On 2018-11-25 at 2:05 AM, Frebben said:

An alternative solution could be to have all hunting/fishing/mining rewards to be universally shared within the squad. It will not deal with all types of leeching, but I would not mind carrying some squad members in a bounty if I got paid in materials.

This is actually perfect! I'm surprised more people didn't upvote.

 

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On 2018-11-25 at 5:45 PM, ThumpumGood said:

I would prefer a boot feature. One person initiates the boot, other 2 have to agree before person is summarily kicked from party.

 

This. And I don't understand why so many people hate this idea. 

This concept is perfect and exists in plenty of other games already. 

I don't think DE does anything or cares about leeching cause people are allowed to play the game however they like. There's not really rules behind that baisdes the eula. But a boot or vote kick system would easily fix this and avoid a need to report. 

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On 2018-11-26 at 11:20 PM, Helch0rn said:

the way you want to use it and the way others would use it are not neccessarily the same.

If I am "greeted" on joining the mission with things like "limbo go kill yourself" and demands to engage in intercourse with my mother I can hardly believe that I was at fault.

just to remind you: I was leveling limbo without using abilities because I know he can be cancer

Really? Well I've never ever heard of anything like that. I'm a Mr 26, and I've been playing for nearly 5 years. 

In that ENTIRE time. I have never run into a toxic group. Every random group I've run into has been chill or friendly talkative. Usually we talk about memes and warframe jokes. 

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6 minutes ago, Arniox said:

This. And I don't understand why so many people hate this idea. 

This concept is perfect and exists in plenty of other games already. 

I don't think DE does anything or cares about leeching cause people are allowed to play the game however they like. There's not really rules behind that baisdes the eula. But a boot or vote kick system would easily fix this and avoid a need to report. 

Because leeching is less of a problem than the abuse that will come with a boot feature. Leeching just isn't a big deal, and I mean as far as punishing goes. I don't think DE cares about it enough to punish players. 

For some reason, certain people just don't like carrying other players. It really just seems like a minor annoyance for some people. Not a big deal at all IMO.

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I usually do not go with a team on the Vallis. Mainly because my computer is old and if I end up hosting, the group will fall apart due to network issues when my system fails to keep up with a loading transition when someone enters an underground zone. Teaming up with friends, sure, that's fine if one of them is hosting.

So Vallis leeching is not much of an issue for me.

On the Plains, it can be another matter. I will sometimes be a little slower off the mark and the rest of the party will arrive and get the capture or find the caches before I'm even in range to start on it. And other times I will be the one taking point, finding the goodies and crushing the enemy or flat out locking them away from the defense target with something like Mass Vitrify and rendering the question of what other tenno are doing largely irrelevant. I don't resent it when I'm carrying, and I can only hope not to be resented when I am carried.

And like often I will be the last or second last person to the exit. I tend to open crates and check closets maybe more than most. Sometimes it costs the group thirty seconds for nothing, but sometimes it turns up ayatans, and you can't find them if you never look.

I guess what I am saying is that if you want a team that is focused on the missions, form the squad before you enter the mission. When you run with Rando Calrussian, accept that he might just really need a bunch of muon batteries, and let the man fish. The time will come when you need a bag of gemstones and someone else racks up a couple bounties while you get them, and you find yourself with some extra standing you did not technically earn, and I for one will not begrudge you that standing if it is me out there lasering the taxmen.

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I think there's a dark side to votekicking, it gives more room for tryhard toxicity.

What i mean is that from my own experience where i have been playing arbitrations with things that i just *WANT* to run at that moment, like nyx with rubico for example, and iv'e received insults just for picking her, or her using her 3, which is kind of the point why you would bring nyx say to a defense mission. People even throw games because someone is making slight speed bump in the game, or not using meta weapons.

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I have had been inserted into grups where the 3 player are buddies or clan members, if a votekick was implemented, not only would that prevent me from doing a proper afk report, but also i would have 3 player kick me from the squad, some players do not like when someone they know may be getting punished (due to afk or intentionally stalling the mission), i have had players who tried to mobilize entire clans based on a valid report i made, sort of to fight back, utter pointless.

Remember, we don't make the rules, we are not forced to comply with leeching, play solo, make a squad and so on, if a player is in the mission, that player must play, no one can play on his behalf directly or indirectly.

If i ever have a clan member supporting afk behavior, teaching others to do it, that would be an instant kick for sure.

I support actual gameplay, being better, making missions more profitable, so yeah, i will do my part, even if i'm the only one playing, i will still take my time and talk to support, since i already know what happens, playing solo, votekicks and mission rewards lost, would be several steps backwards

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10 hours ago, Arniox said:

Really? Well I've never ever heard of anything like that. I'm a Mr 26, and I've been playing for nearly 5 years. 

In that ENTIRE time. I have never run into a toxic group. Every random group I've run into has been chill or friendly talkative. Usually we talk about memes and warframe jokes. 

And I am MR 25 and have been playing for 5.5-6 years now and I ran into way more toxic people than leeches

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11 minutes ago, Helch0rn said:

And I am MR 25 and have been playing for 5.5-6 years now and I ran into way more toxic people than leeches

I'm Mr16, one of the most experienced players in the game, have found way more afk and leeching players than toxic ones, there used to be a time where i would report 1 or 2 a day, now despite the population increase, i hardly find players afk, maybe once or twice a week i do a report.

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15 hours ago, ZeroZX4 said:

A pool would only make sens if it would be done among players in game and not on forums.
FOR EXAMPLE where i'm probably not a good example, but whatever. I did not make a single post on this forums until i was mr 26 and like 20 day before 400 daily tribute.
So most likely ppl who don't care about leechers like me, care even less about contributing anything to this forum.

OP from link i provided don't need to have meta build you don't need to have 1 i also don't and no 1 is obligated to have any.
But you see, problem is that in his post you see a fear. Do you think 1 player should feel fear if he need to pee? Pick up a phone? Open a door? Which will make him go afk for 1 min or 2 which can result in someone punishing him in any way?

Its not about the idea where you pick up your bounty, its about ppl coming to post like this to excuse them self why they want to make others fear that they can do something to them like report them or vote kick them.

Its about how players have create abusive system for other players.

And i don't say bounties picked in town should be locked from any activity other than doing actual bounty.
I say instead of limiting our selfs and others, let's ask for system that will benefit us all no matter what any1 would do.
Or system in which doing actual bounty would benefit any1 as much that it would be not worth to do anything else (but that would be hard to achieve).

As I said, the OP and my example will benefit everyone because it will put focus on bounties, the bounties people activley accept that they will fullfill. You have absolutely no need to activate your tools when you go to PoE or OV for bounties. This system would also have no negative impact on someone that needs to go do a quick #1 or pick up his phone/answer the door.

Other systems that people have brought up as ideas will have impact on those people, like the ones that forces everyone to rush to an objective asap or lose out on potential rewards for not being close enough, or the horrible I-hope-I-never-see-it-in-a-game-again vote kick. Those things can be abused.

Limiting your use of 3 tools will have no negative impact whatsoever since they arent used in bounties to begin with.

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1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

As I said, the OP and my example will benefit everyone because it will put focus on bounties, the bounties people activley accept that they will fullfill. You have absolutely no need to activate your tools when you go to PoE or OV for bounties. This system would also have no negative impact on someone that needs to go do a quick #1 or pick up his phone/answer the door.

Other systems that people have brought up as ideas will have impact on those people, like the ones that forces everyone to rush to an objective asap or lose out on potential rewards for not being close enough, or the horrible I-hope-I-never-see-it-in-a-game-again vote kick. Those things can be abused.

Limiting your use of 3 tools will have no negative impact whatsoever since they arent used in bounties to begin with.

Yea with 4 squad members while 1 would do spy bounty other 3 should just stand outside of facility and admire clouds.
Or you would prefer other 3 members go with you into facility so you have more chance of someone triggering alarms?

Or when you do excavation and 2 excavators left fully powered with enough HP that even without protection they won't die.
Let's just limit others so they can't do other thing than watching how timer is counting down.

Or maybe when you do ambush and wait for colidrive, another perfect occasion to admire clouds.

Yeah. You are 100% right i stand corrected.

 

I believe for ppl like you only perfect solution if there would be bounty type A and B where on type A it works like it works now and on type B it would work like you wish it to work.
And then any1 who want to limit them selfs could just go with type B but i wonder for how long that type B would be popular.

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2 hours ago, ZeroZX4 said:

I believe for ppl like you only perfect solution if there would be bounty type A and B where on type A it works like it works now and on type B it would work like you wish it to work.
And then any1 who want to limit them selfs could just go with type B but i wonder for how long that type B would be popular.

Which is exactly what I've said from the beginning.

They can just go with something like, bounties picked up before heading into the zone = no tools since you dont go into a free roam. Bounties picked up in the zone allow tools, since you are in a free roam mode already. It shouldnt be harder to solve that than not being able to use archwings or k-drives outside of PoE/OV.

edit: And it would likely be as used as the current regular bounty in town is since maybe 1 out of 10 bounties you have someone running away to gather during the downtime.

Edited by SneakyErvin

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2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Which is exactly what I've said from the beginning.

They can just go with something like, bounties picked up before heading into the zone = no tools since you dont go into a free roam. Bounties picked up in the zone allow tools, since you are in a free roam mode already. It shouldnt be harder to solve that than not being able to use archwings or k-drives outside of PoE/OV.

edit: And it would likely be as used as the current regular bounty in town is since maybe 1 out of 10 bounties you have someone running away to gather during the downtime.

I'm not sure you get me.

I believe for ppl like you there should be additional option, while selecting bounty that let's you select if you can only do bounties or do whatever you want.
This way you are only locked with that type of bounty you selected.

AND, after some time i believe this option would lose popularity when ppl would understand they do nothing else by that than limiting them selfs.

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20 hours ago, ZeroZX4 said:

That is the case here just it is ok for you that you can be kicked by abusing the system  does not mean it's ok for ever1, and thats prime example why we should look for solution that will make every1 happy. Not just you or me.

Kick feature will be abused. I would love to abuse it, and many ppl like me would abuse it like i would, and thats the reason why it's a bad idea.
You don't get it? Ok so.
You are frustrated by actions (or lack of action in this case) of other players. But you want a system which will add an option that can be abused so other players will feel frustration from other players abusing it. Is it that hard to understand?

Im mr26 i have every thing unlocked i could except 2 weapons from daily tribute and all i do in warframe is tridolon hunts.
I don't believe i have meta build on anything but i feel overpowered AF. I don't need any resource from this game anymore (6k energy restore large which is only thing i need but well i have now enough), i don't need to get anything from this game, i only could get something if i want to.
But for sure not stones or fishes or standing for vent kids. Even relics is NOT a way of making money for me anymore so i don't need to any bounty to farm them.
So when i do only fun i have out of it is to in fact kill something there or do some mission in it, so more afk/leechers/incompetent players there = more stuff to kill for me.
So yeah i'm for sure that 1 person that keeps leeching on bounties.
I would prefer to stay afk on my orbiter or run around arsenal as we all do.

I don't want or need to defend afk/leechers/incompetent players because they can't do me any harm in fact i benefit from it, and you could benefit from it also, it's just the fact you prefer a punishment feature and thats the problem.


i try to explain to this guys exact same thing from over 1 week with same success as my nick indicates.
And i start to believe why ppl like me or you don't comment on posts like this more often.
Ppl here just don't get the basic benefits which you describe or are just unexperienced/unprepared  enough and can't do missions carrying everyone and getting more fun out of them.

And pointing that out to them starts s##t storm. So trust me leave this post while you can.

So make the kick feature for the missions that are in the navigation bar (alerts etc) and bounties. I dont want to boot some one who is farming locations and materials in the rest of the game. Just the speed runs. And to elaborate... Alerts, Invasions, Fissures, Sorties and Bounties are where I want the feature and from the people in favor of it that I have seen in this thread, that's where they want it(I left out Syndicate on purpose).

I've just offered a middle ground. Must have 3 agree and only in speed missions. Outside of that, it's not necessary.

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2 hours ago, ThumpumGood said:

So make the kick feature for the missions that are in the navigation bar (alerts etc) and bounties. I dont want to boot some one who is farming locations and materials in the rest of the game. Just the speed runs. And to elaborate... Alerts, Invasions, Fissures, Sorties and Bounties are where I want the feature and from the people in favor of it that I have seen in this thread, that's where they want it(I left out Syndicate on purpose).

I've just offered a middle ground. Must have 3 agree and only in speed missions. Outside of that, it's not necessary.

By what you wrote it feels like some missions in warframe should be only for the fastest players and if you are not fast enough other should be able to kick u.
Last time i check warframe was all in for every1.
+ it still can and will be abused.

And something that can be abused against innocent players should not be implemented.

Unless you volunteer to resolve each ticket submitted by any player about getting kicked from mission for no reason.
Where you will be responsible for checking why did someone get kicked how he  was performing and was it abusive or not.
Then i am all in for kick vote.

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5 hours ago, ZeroZX4 said:

By what you wrote it feels like some missions in warframe should be only for the fastest players and if you are not fast enough other should be able to kick u.
Last time i check warframe was all in for every1.
+ it still can and will be abused.

And something that can be abused against innocent players should not be implemented.

Unless you volunteer to resolve each ticket submitted by any player about getting kicked from mission for no reason.
Where you will be responsible for checking why did someone get kicked how he  was performing and was it abusive or not.
Then i am all in for kick vote.

I am getting tired of repeating myself... I wouldnt kick a lowbie. And having to check a reason you're voting to kick would be a good thing so you could suspend that person from being able to initiate it. Im all for this and we can hash out the complete details. We're starting to get somewhere. I remember being left behind and getting lost until I learned the maps. Kuva fortress is still not solid in my mind. And some of the twists and turns in the Neptune Grineer is WOW! And there's the timer for that. I like the timer keeping you from having to wait 20 min for some one to find their way. +points to DE for that one.

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1 hour ago, ThumpumGood said:

I am getting tired of repeating myself... I wouldnt kick a lowbie. And having to check a reason you're voting to kick would be a good thing so you could suspend that person from being able to initiate it. Im all for this and we can hash out the complete details. We're starting to get somewhere. I remember being left behind and getting lost until I learned the maps. Kuva fortress is still not solid in my mind. And some of the twists and turns in the Neptune Grineer is WOW! And there's the timer for that. I like the timer keeping you from having to wait 20 min for some one to find their way. +points to DE for that one.

You read what i wrote but you understood what you want.
I never said you would kick someone for being nooblet.

i only stated 2 facts

1. By what you wrote it FEELS LIKE if  if missions can be done very fast it should be only for meta fast players and all nooblets should be expendable via vote kick.

2. By me and by many other players that feature could and for sure will be abused to its limits.

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The kick/boot feature will only create more toxicity in the game if it isn’t properly managed worst case scenario is L4D2

I propose just disabling mining and stuff until bounty is concluded I’m just against letting the players have control of a kick feature especially in a game like this

 

Edited by (PS4)BloodyXSavageX

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17 hours ago, ZeroZX4 said:

I'm not sure you get me.

I believe for ppl like you there should be additional option, while selecting bounty that let's you select if you can only do bounties or do whatever you want.
This way you are only locked with that type of bounty you selected.

AND, after some time i believe this option would lose popularity when ppl would understand they do nothing else by that than limiting them selfs.

That is what I am suggesting though. Only difference is that one NPC is locked in the town, one is locked in the zone, this would be the easiest solution. The game simply checks when you enter the zone if you have an active bounty at which point it disables your tools till the bounty is done. Picking up the bounty in the zone wouldnt need that check and instead just follow the current free roam rules. Adding two types of bounties would just mean bloating the respective NPCs and need alot of extra communication or UI changes to show which bounty type is voted on. A simple system check as you enter the open zone would be far smoother and simpler to implement. They already have the system mechanics in place for weapons, gear etc. through no- fly zones, sortie weapon/gear limitation like Bow only and the inability to use ciphers in sorties.

It would take a long long time before it would lose popularity. I've barely seen legit people that use their tools during bounties, not in PoE, not in OV, because people want to get finished quickly to do the next one.

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On 2018-12-08 at 12:41 AM, Helch0rn said:

And I am MR 25 and have been playing for 5.5-6 years now and I ran into way more toxic people than leeches

Well then you are severally unlucky... 

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On 2018-12-07 at 11:57 PM, ZeroZX4 said:

You read what i wrote but you understood what you want.
I never said you would kick someone for being nooblet.

i only stated 2 facts

1. By what you wrote it FEELS LIKE if  if missions can be done very fast it should be only for meta fast players and all nooblets should be expendable via vote kick.

2. By me and by many other players that feature could and for sure will be abused to its limits.

Getting lost happens. Not a reason to kick.
And outside of speed missions, it shouldn't exist. You could make an argument for Index having it but there is where I would see it being abused.

As far as abuse elsewhere- people are trying to get it done fast. 90% of the time they arent going to notice the guy AFK at the beginning til it's too late. So... add in that once the objective is reached, kick ability is disabled.  If you didnt notice before that point, then you deal with it. But bounties... Oh yeah. Bounties at least.

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On 2018-12-06 at 5:44 PM, ThumpumGood said:

Read the whole thread... Im for a kick feature that requires 3 people to agree to kick. And I dont worry about getting kicked. If my style doesnt match the other 3, why force anyone to suffer? I self kicked from a group that kept popping life support at 70%. Styles dont match. There was a convo first... 
Me: Stop hitting the life support til it gets to between 30 and 40%
Him I hit em whenever I want to. 

I didnt say another word, I just left. I want to be able to kick people like that 

This is precisely why they shouldn't implement a kick feature.

Life support gives 30%, so hitting it at 90 is wasteful. Hitting it at 70 is reasonable. Note that reasonable isn't the same as optimal. Obviously the optimal thing to do is, as you say, save it until it gets lower, leaving room for drops to raise you back up. So a player was making a choice that was reasonable, but wasn't optimal, so you want to be able to kick them? This would make PUGs terrible for casual players. Oh, you wanted to farm credits here? Sorry, Index is the optimal credit farming place, try farming credits anywhere else and get kicked.

If the style doesn't match, you can leave squad. Mid-mission if it's a big deal. After 1 mission if not. Any time sortie 1 has a player whose style doesn't suit me (or a leecher), I just leave the squad before sortie 2. It's no big thing. The only thing they really need to add is a way for endless modes like Survival/Excavation to allow players to individually choose to leave or stay, so that players with different styles ("Give me my single reward and let's be done!" vs. "Let's go for two full cycles!") don't negatively impact each other so much.

But the whole point of PUGs is that they are PUGs. People aren't going to play optimally, and they're certainly not going to always want to play the same style you are.

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On 2018-12-06 at 7:34 PM, Arniox said:

This. And I don't understand why so many people hate this idea.

Explains everything WHY. People will kick for ANY reason they WANT, not for any other reason...

WoWScrnShot_071711_045158.png

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Stay away from top tier bounty missions as leechers choose this one to maximise their free goodies. Keep an eye on the rest of the team in map view and if someone is clearly doing their own thing just leave, letting the others know in chat that there's a leecher. Because:

1. Common curtesy

2. Alerting others this is a thing so they can look out for it themselves in future

3. Shaming the leecher (probably doesn't work)

4. A chat record naming the leecher may be useful to DE in any future investigations

If the person is not moving and still outside the start gates at the end of the first bounty ask in chat if they are afk. If there's a plausible reason then great but if there's no response or you get abuse then leave. If it's abuse they go on the ignore list. 

I get the daily standing from mining/fishing/hunting - no leechers

Edited by DogsConkers
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