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solution for host migrate; let us toggle hosting


SaidTheRogue
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add an option/toggle in the options somewhere that lets me tell the game to always set me as the host? i'm tired of people with crappy internet. my ping from myself to a host has little or nothing to do with the hosts network performance. its very generally indicative of what kinda performance you can expect, but thats where it stops.

my internet connection and pc are both quite good. i'm fine being the host all the time.

in before a horde of teenagers saying HURR DURR MAKE A GROUP etc. we all know thats just not practical much of the time, it often takes too long to find 2-3 other ppl who just happen to wanna do the same thing you do, at the same time, for the same length of time. its like bad porn, baby, yeahhhh sometimes ya just wanna jump in for 20min eh?

but seriously.. this host migration nonsense is clearly one of the greatest sources of player frustration, which gets regularly complained about and we all know it. so give us more tools in the toolbox?

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Changing your matchmaking ping limit at the settings to the lowest possible value is a ''working'' bandaid for now, because it reduces the number of potential squads you can join.

I would like to see this added as well. It's especially annoying when you lose all the mission rewards because of a failed migration.

Edited by Wyrmius_Prime
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7 minutes ago, Eathian said:

I never found it a problem until Fortuna launched. Orb Vallis is a nightmare with pugs. So much lag that everything bugs out constantly.

i honestly think such things have more to do with individual players' computers. if you magically always got into fast groups/hosts and now you dont, then something else is bogging you down =]

in either case, the original point still stands. the peer thing is clever but also a huge source of blah-ness.

if people whose gear doesnt suck could flip a switch/option that says OMGHAYMAKEMEHOSTPLZ then i think many including myself would employ it, to the benefit of many.

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It is possible to always host in public Orb Vallis. Start bounty, wait for countdown to finish, Solo mode, enter elevator, when loading starts or elevator starts making sound, switch to public. Press the "+" to open invite menu to make sure it did not stay in solo mode. This might also work on Cetus, to Plains of Eidolon. Switching between solo and public with bounty active is now possible after Fortuna update. Warframe future updates might stop this from working.

Edit: switch to solo first, then start bounty. The game appears to cancel bounty when switch to solo.

Edited by sam686
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On 2018-12-28 at 11:51 AM, SaidTheRogue said:

but seriously.. this host migration nonsense is clearly one of the greatest sources of player frustration, which gets regularly complained about and we all know it. so give us more tools in the toolbox?

Decentralized hosting has it's problems, and poor connections is but one of them. Warframe's networking is horrible, like if they're servers are using cheap Cogent bandwidth without multi-peering, too (you get what you pay for!).

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On 2018-12-31 at 3:33 PM, sam686 said:

It is possible to always host in public Orb Vallis. Start bounty, wait for countdown to finish, Solo mode, enter elevator, when loading starts or elevator starts making sound, switch to public. Press the "+" to open invite menu to make sure it did not stay in solo mode. This might also work on Cetus, to Plains of Eidolon. Switching between solo and public with bounty active is now possible after Fortuna update. Warframe future updates might stop this from working.

this is clever but we shouldnt have to jump through such hoops. it should be a simple matter to add an option to the game to allow a client/player/whatever to volunteer to host.

yes, above and beyond just making your own groups. as in the OP, this isnt very practical and partly defeats the purpose of the random group function. pugs are not entirely bad and serve a purpose. if you wait to slap together a group for the particular thing that YOU wanna do, that almost always takes much longer. you know it, i know it.

one counterpoint that ive heard a couple times is that ppl will abuse it in the form of using this even though theyre not fast, as any time youre the host you at least eliminate whatever lag there would be due to the host that youre -not- connected to in that situation. but such people will still be laden with their slow(er) performance AND theres nothing stopping people from making their own groups now, so theres no net detraction/deficiency. 

as time goes on it would mostly just be one more tool in the toolbox for those that know that their pc/network performance is fast to step up to the plate. this benefits all. how many times have YOU guys joined a squad and it was clunky as hell and void dash hardly worked etcetc?

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Back out from the game when it's joining you into the session > select mission again

Congrats, you are now the host

note: only force yourself as the host when you are a reliable host, if you are prone to quiting or have a bad connection, do not host

Mistakes happen, at the start of the game you are still being given feedback, few will care, however in arbitrations, sorties and other more important missions later on, common sense tells everyone you have been the host many times (probably over a hundred times) and have received feedback accordingly for leaving matches after dying or if the game is laggy overall, so if you host, you will receive negative feedback.

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5 hours ago, KIREEK said:

note: only force yourself as the host when you are a reliable host, if you are prone to quiting or have a bad connection, do not host

Mistakes happen, at the start of the game you are still being given feedback, few will care, however in arbitrations, sorties and other more important missions later on, common sense tells everyone you have been the host many times (probably over a hundred times) and have received feedback accordingly for leaving matches after dying or if the game is laggy overall, so if you host, you will receive negative feedback.

you... seem to be off in left field somewhere with all this. i have no issues with the above.

lets all just reread the OP carefully, slowly... slowwwwwlyyyyyyy.......

haha

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4 hours ago, SaidTheRogue said:

you... seem to be off in left field somewhere with all this. i have no issues with the above.

lets all just reread the OP carefully, slowly... slowwwwwlyyyyyyy.......

haha

I gave you a sugestion on how to make yourself the host and i added a note incase anyone wants to follow the advice.

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...or let's dispense with all this silly jumping through hoops

And just add an option in settings somewhere that says hey, always let me be the host.

I can see how this could produce delays but we get the same thing when we just set ourselves to only group with players below a certain ping. 

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1 hour ago, SaidTheRogue said:

...or let's dispense with all this silly jumping through hoops

And just add an option in settings somewhere that says hey, always let me be the host.

I can see how this could produce delays but we get the same thing when we just set ourselves to only group with players below a certain ping. 

Always host option doesn't resolve the real issue: if we want to connect with <100ms players only we are connected with <100ms players only.

Getting a host migration, then the frame rates drop to 12fps (slideshow rates), as the host is playing WF on an i5 laptop at college with a crappy modem... and they always want to host? ... what a mess that will become.

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SInce i know something negative is going to happen, I'm done playing till host migration gets sorted to work like a competent system with player change overs in mind?  (not losing progress to fu@kry).

Since fortuna dropped my progress has been thoroughly subverted due to crappy mission structure and host migration and I'm damn sick of it (lvl 25). Thx alot DE

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1 hour ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Always host option doesn't resolve the real issue: if we want to connect with <100ms players only we are connected with <100ms players only.

Getting a host migration, then the frame rates drop to 12fps (slideshow rates), as the host is playing WF on an i5 laptop at college with a crappy modem... and they always want to host? ... what a mess that will become.

Your ping to a player DOES NOT MATTER

Your ping to them has little to do with how FAST their stuff is, regarding the 3 people connected to them. You can have a low ping to a host but it's still laggy because they're just plain slow. 

At the most, your ping to a host is only very indirectly related, barely, sorta, in a general way... to the kind of performance you're going to get. 

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21 minutes ago, SaidTheRogue said:

Your ping to a player DOES NOT MATTER

Your ping to them has little to do with how FAST their stuff is, regarding the 3 people connected to them. You can have a low ping to a host but it's still laggy because they're just plain slow. 

At the most, your ping to a host is only very indirectly related, barely, sorta, in a general way... to the kind of performance you're going to get. 

Have you ever played on a server based in South Africa or Moscow?

Come back to me about pings and gaming performance and WHAT it does to your game experience!

When EA's DICE was having their Dogtag Challenge II contest in Battlefield 2142, one of the devs HID on a South African based server with at LEAST 1,000ms pings (that was the limit the game showed! It could've been higher!). The comments in the game I can't post here for the profanity, but I never seen trying to stab a player with TRAILS before!

That dev was killed the most FOR being on such a laggy connection -- I took 4 of his tags alone -- as the contest wasn't fair to players competeing!

Then we found them HIDING in vehicles and titans ... I came in 16th in that competition due to just HOW laggy and UNFAIR it was! Waste my time on that, I'm stabbing and grabbing everything and DID!!! 🤣

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There have been at least 2 users that want to join as a client and never host. For missions started from navigation, easy to cancel the mission to avoid hosting if the game did not find any squads, and try again a few seconds later. No wasting time on loading screen in navigation when matchmaking did not find any squads. Can be done on PC platform using windows firewall.

What about Fortuna and Cetus bounties? Matchmaking with bounty only works when door closes to load and start mission. Cannot cancel bounty mission if the game did not find any squads. Forced into loading and starting the bounty mission alone. This may give poor experience with lag complaints to players that do not want to host. Never host option is more needed with bounty matchmaking, or just allow starting bounty from navigation.

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The only issue I see happening with an "Always make me Host" option is:

  • Always Make Me Host = Optimal Gameplay Setting that Everyone has on = "No one wants to join my session cause everyone wants to host."

Don't get me wrong, everyone hates joining/playing in a session that has enemies teleporting everywhere and not taking damage after unloading multiple shots into them. 

The only two fixes I see that could work are:

  • Region/Country Settings - You only join/host sessions in the Region/Country you have set to your Region/Country. 
  • Dedicated Servers hosted by DE.
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  • 3 weeks later...

aaaaaand, to the top.

as we can see, there are various things to consider here but i dont think the argument that "oh with this setting/option everyone will just toggle themselves the host and we'll all have no groups blahblah" really holds any water.

the vast majority of players dont even fiddle with settings much if at all, thats just human nature. hell, ppl that wont spend 5mins to tab outta the game and read the damn wiki certainly arent gonna mess around with hosts and pings and this and that.

and no matter what, none of whats been shown in this thread so far is a reason to NOT offer this option. why would you take away options? why would you say no dont add <whatever> to the game so that we have more tools in the toolbox? you should be saying yeah give us more <whatever> rather than shooting down ideas. 

but lets face it, my ideas are better than most =]

Edited by SaidTheRogue
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I'm using the PS4 Pro and not using a router for gaming (unlike some people who prefer to use a router). My options are set to take in people with only 100ms or lower. 90% of the time I'm host. Whenever I start a mission, I still have to wait a minute or two until someone joins. That being said, I don't think majority of the players have ping below 200ms. Being host is great for relic runs. I can jump ship if someone doesn't have a relic that drops a specific item I want when I don't have the right relic.

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We finished the missions on Venus, 1 person got to the door before us and quit. Why? Literally 3 runs in a row. Host migration mid session. 

How about a filter of sorts. First option would be quick match public like what we have now. Then public ranked will put you with the same or within 5 mastery rank. 

Could there be an option for long play filter? Say "host long session". Then switch the "open squad" to show "open long play squad". So Now if you wanted to farm akkad you'd set it to host long session and people could choose that. Or do quick match to just get the node done.

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On 2018-12-28 at 4:51 PM, SaidTheRogue said:

add an option/toggle in the options somewhere that lets me tell the game to always set me as the host

I think the problem is that everybody wants to be host. This means those with this on will wait longer for public matchmaking, and those with this off are far less likely to get to be the host.

I mean, I don't mind not being host, so long as I get my turn. That wouldn't be an option: you're either the master race of host-only, or you're the never host rubes. If more than ¼ of players decide never being host isn't for them you've broken matchmaking - you just have lots of folks who don't want to play unless they can be host.

It's basically the prisoner's dilemma - the best common outcome is for nobody to be host-only, and if everyone is host-only you're screwed, you only 'win' if you're host-only and they aren't.

For public matchmaking to work it has to be democratic, with everyone on equal footing, or it doesn't work at all.

Either that or switch to a 'meritocracy' - whoever has the lowest average ping to everyone else gets to be host.

A better solution would be seamless host migration, which should be easy. Reloading the level is a workaround and shouldn't be needed - everyone in the match has a copy of the level and the state of every other player, anyone should be able to take over without resetting everyone's state and reloading all the assets.

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