Baruuk's Desert Wind stats are just a copy* of Valkyr's Talons

[ZodiacShinryu]

1 hour ago, Gurpgork said:

Peacemaker costs 5 times as much energy as Exalted Blade, respects LoS, and restricts your movement. Ergo, it is entirely appropriate for it to do more work than Exalted Blade. 

Depending on the situation, you don't need to have Peacemaker active all the time anyway. If you are doing enough damage right away (you usually are) you are going to work faster with quick toggles, and benefit from all the energy orbs (plus whatever other energy mechanic you are using) to effectively use it for as long as you want with minimal restrictions. Honestly, Peacemaker is the only exalted-class ability that was designed with the idea of toggling correctly; fairly quick transfers and peak efficiency within seconds. Every other Exalted-class ability is encouraged to pick it over the rest of the gameplay. Clunky slow transfers, added resource investment, a clear downside to having the effect removed (for whatever reason)… but I'll continue on this in a bit.

I would like to say however that while Peacemaker is only LoS it is also always 50m range. This follows all of Excalibur's limitations on his other powers (namely Blind; which supplements/covers his weaknesses). Added to that Waves are fairly slow traveling, have damage fall off, and only go to 40m (where they do only 10% of the damage). Personally I think people should factor in players aren't likely to use the waves for the sole purpose of attacking through actual walls for the simple reason that there isn't any mechanics that let you easily see through walls (anymore). Excalibur doesn't always have the luxury to spend time blinding attacking through the wall because if he gets over run or somehow gets flanked, he has himself completely exposed. However, Mesa has 2 fairly powerful omni directional defensive abilities that lower the risk for Mesa to move into LoS all while decimating everything. With that Peacemaker isn't entirely movement restricted. There is the augment of course but since it can be activated in the air (along with the quick toggle and auto aim) it isn't hard to clear whole areas by flinging yourself through the air toggling before you even hit the ground again.

1 hour ago, Gurpgork said:

On the other hand, Serene Storm is restricted with the Restraint mechanic whereas EB has no such restrictions. Therefore, it is not appropriate for EB to be straight-up better than Serene Storm. 

This isn’t a “it’s the literal new best thing in the game or it’s trash” debate. It’s entirely about Serene Storm having more restrictions than abilities that are strictly better than it. 

There are a lot of things wrong with how most Exalted-class abilities are handled (lets just look at Spectral Scream which follows all the limitations but has no access to mods...) but when has resource management ever been a balance factor for power in Warframe? None, save maybe Peacemaker, are the top tiered "weapons" in their own "slot" let alone weapon class. They all [mostly] have added resource management (energy, now restraint), limited mod selection, disadvantages for toggling off or being dispelled (such as falling/pushed off a map), direct enemy counters (nullifiers, arbitration drones, ancient disruptors; all whom which may force a toggle), and mechanical suppression (energy drain units, certain mechanics, certain modifiers). You know what doesn't have any of that? Normal weapons, many of which deal more damage both faster and larger range and/or area. So why aren't exalted weapons thee peak with all the restrictions and limitations in comparison to everything else in the game.

If we are talking about sheer power, EB isn't even the front of the line without also considering Blind (which is dipping more into resource management). But it certainly is a simple to use skill with a balance of both offensive and defensive capabilities. There are certainly valid arguments to suggest that EB is over tuned in comparison to his brothers and sister though realistically they all need buffs (with Valkyr needing some reorganization, especially with Garuda doing her theme so much better).

However Serene Storm gets around some of those limitations by detaching itself from energy and focusing more on CC. Baruuk also is far tankier with all his defensive capabilities; I mean just EB vs SS, Baruuk mitigates more damage than Excalibur let alone everything else Baruuk can do. If he could do straight up EB damage he'd just be a better Excalibur. If I were to suggest anything for him it would to add more utility to the ability; like innate debuffs to even further enhance indirectly cripple (lower damage output) and/or make more vulnerable (increase damage dealt to, whether through armor reduction or adding a multiplier of sorts) enemies. In this fashion Baruuk will get a slight boost to his damage that also functions as team utility by supporting the teams damage and increasing their survivability even more. Simply disagreeing with theme direction isn't a call for change unfortunately.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Where. Is. Your. Proof?

You haven't provided any. Just repeated yourself even in the face of actual evidence that he can, and does, perform at the levels of play other frames are capable of.

Why. Does. He. Need. One?

You haven't given any reason other than a base demand for it to be literally over-powered on the opinion that it's part of his theme, when he can clearly function completely fine without having one.

I. Can. Do. This. Too.

So get some facts behind this, or sit down and let the adults talk.

You can’t handle the proof.

[torint_man]

3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Where. Is. Your. Proof?

You haven't provided any. Just repeated yourself even in the face of actual evidence that he can, and does, perform at the levels of play other frames are capable of.

Why. Does. He. Need. One?

You haven't given any reason other than a base demand for it to be literally over-powered on the opinion that it's part of his theme, when he can clearly function completely fine without having one.

I. Can. Do. This. Too.

So get some facts behind this, or sit down and let the adults talk.

Because its restrictions and kit context make Baruuk a suboptimal option. I shouldn't have to tell you why exalted blade is straight up better and it being less restrictive but oh well.

Exalted Blade has: 

1. An augment that allows it to access to status, and by extension, condition overload

2. High damage

3. Is part of a kit that allows an instant 8x damage multiplier and simple CC

4. Low cost that is trivial to maintain with rage

Serene Storm has: 

1. High damage

2. CC that can prevent you from killing enemies, which isn't that much better than none at all

3. A meter that requires using abilities that don't synergize with it

Serene storm is powerful, but not enough, especially in its kit context. How would I change it? Make Lull not suck by making it sleep the enemies for the full duration, and by extension give the 8x melee multiplier for its entire duration, and give Serene Storm 40% status chance. That's it. Nothing more. Serene storm will then be good.

Post my suggested buffs, Serene Storm will have:

1. Access to status, and by extension, condition overload

2. High damage

3. Is part of a kit that allows an instant 8x damage multiplier and CC

4. Uses a meter that is recharged using an ability that synergizes with it

There, Baruuk is good now, as a more tanky alternative to Excalibur in exchange for having to go through slightly more hoops than him.

[Xaxma]

I like to play Baruuk because he's fun.

/End thread

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

1 hour ago, Xaxma said:

I like to play Baruuk because he's fun.

/End thread

Ive got a 75% off coupon for his release tomorrow, I cant wait to play him because as an atlas lover, I enjoy punchy frames 😄

[DanteYoda]

19 hours ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

False. His kit is about attacking the enemy at the right time instead of blindly mashing buttons. The people who stand there doing nothing are not playing and should not be considered "players", let alone "Baruuk players"; for the same reason people who stand in the middle of the star chart Defenses with meta-map-whipping things like Equinox, Saryn, (especialy pre-nerf) Ember, Mag, Revenant, Octavia, etc.

You're over-generalizing something you keep criticizing because it doesn't fit your personal standarts (again). Could we just return to the actual subject of this thread, aka the similarities between Hysteria and Serene Storm (and not Exalted Blade)?

All those frames you quoted have uses in a team, Baruuk less so..

[DeMonkey]

4 hours ago, robbybe01234 said:

exalted blade doesn't have damage reduction as an attribute

Frontal 60% DR up at all times. That more than certainly counts.

Why is there so much misinformation about Exalted Blade in this thread, downplaying the various strengths it has or outright pretending they don't exist.

[DanteYoda]

5 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

He. Needs. A. Buff.

His 1, 2 and 3 need Buffs as at the moment they are next to useless, his number 1 is down right horrible in game, useless mechanic.

 

I own Baruuk, although i regret it.

[DatDarkOne]

4 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Frontal 60% DR up at all times. That more than certainly counts.

Why is there so much misinformation about Exalted Blade in this thread, downplaying the various strengths it has or outright pretending they don't exist.

Because those people usually don't play the frames enough to truly understand them or just take what whatever YTer says as "fact" without testing for themselves.  

[robbybe01234]

4 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Frontal 60% DR up at all times. That more than certainly counts.

Why is there so much misinformation about Exalted Blade in this thread, downplaying the various strengths it has or outright pretending they don't exist.

I see what your saying, due diligence and all.  Is that shown on excals ability page? In the game? Near the bottom? 

To your second part, I ask myself the same thing many times when abilities are discussed in these forums.  Including threads about storm. 

 

4 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Because those people usually don't play the frames enough to truly understand them or just take what whatever YTer says as "fact" without testing for themselves.  

Ah, I see. At least buy me a beer before you use me. haha

Edited January 29, 2019 by robbybe01234
spelling

[DatDarkOne]

7 minutes ago, robbybe01234 said:

I see what your saying, due diligence and all.  Is that shown on excals ability page? In the game? Near the bottom? 

To your second part, I ask myself the same thing many times when abilities are discussed in these forums.  Including threads about storm. 

 

Ah, I see. At least buy me a beer before you use me. haha

There are just some nuances of some frames that are only noticed through much use that usually gets missed by the public in general.  Things like WoF having a hard 5 target limit, Cyngas AW weapon being able to get Stealth Kills, or that Shadow Stalker can't do anything to a Titania in RW at medium height or higher.   

[robbybe01234]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

There are just some nuances of some frames that are only noticed through much use that usually gets missed by the public in general.  Things like WoF having a hard 5 target limit, Cyngas AW weapon being able to get Stealth Kills, or that Shadow Stalker can't do anything to a Titania in RW at medium height or higher.   

Totally agree. 

Yo, we should tell them about SS's nuance and that it gives them 80% frontal DR at all times!! That's 80 bro!  

[TheSecondCaptain]

I feel like Serene Storm makes up for that in having genuinely useful combos that allow you to control how enemies are positioned. Also, yes, it can kill high level armored enemies, it might be slower than Excal because while damaging they aren't meant to be entirely upfront power, but using slide attacks, finishers with his 2, & stunlocks with his block combo it's not very hard to murder enemies past level 100. Even without that, he's not a damage heavy frame. Excal, Atlas & Valk all have better exalted weapons for damage, but damage isn't the point of his design & even if he doesn't excel as much as them that doesn't mean he's weak. It's like comparing Mag & Saryn, sure, Saryn does more damage, but Mag has a lot of utility & CC that Saryn just doesn't. Baruuk won't deal as much damage as Excal Atlas & Valk, but none of them will ever have the sheer amount of control that he has.

[Birdframe_Prime]

9 hours ago, torint_man said:

Because its restrictions and kit context make Baruuk a suboptimal option. I shouldn't have to tell you why exalted blade is straight up better and it being less restrictive but oh well.

Sub-Optimal.

Yet another person that thinks that because option A is not as powerful as option B, that option A must be weak.

We have seen, and I have tested, actual game content up to high level where Baruuk still performs. There is no argument that his 4 is physically not as 'optimal' as Excalibur's 4, but here is the question and the entire crux of this argument:

So? If Baruuk still performs well, it literally doesn't matter if he's not as good as the literal poster-boy for the game in this one, singular aspect.

It's like comparing Excal's Slash Dash to Landslide, they do similar things and yet have different stats and different effects on the enemy. One of them can be argued to be better than the other from either side, and in terms of damage there's actually a clear winner.

This does not mean that one of them needs to be buffed to match the other, or to be better than the other, because that will only result in the opposite situation.

Serene Storm doesn't need a buff. People just want one.

[torint_man]

 

9 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Sub-Optimal.

Yet another person that thinks that because option A is not as powerful as option B, that option A must be weak.

We have seen, and I have tested, actual game content up to high level where Baruuk still performs. There is no argument that his 4 is physically not as 'optimal' as Excalibur's 4, but here is the question and the entire crux of this argument:

So? If Baruuk still performs well, it literally doesn't matter if he's not as good as the literal poster-boy for the game in this one, singular aspect.

It's like comparing Excal's Slash Dash to Landslide, they do similar things and yet have different stats and different effects on the enemy. One of them can be argued to be better than the other from either side, and in terms of damage there's actually a clear winner.

This does not mean that one of them needs to be buffed to match the other, or to be better than the other, because that will only result in the opposite situation.

Serene Storm doesn't need a buff. People just want one.

"Suboptimal" is in reference to Baruuk as a whole, not serene storm necessarily. The only change I'd want for serene storm itself is higher status chance, something like 25% minimum to allow more build options and overall effectiveness. Making Lull not suck is good for everyone, and it gives Baruuk an option comparable to radial blind. Sure, frames should be better in some aspects than others, but when you have Baruuk having nothing but tankiness, I can't help but be cheeky and compare him to Wukong. Elude is pointless when you have 90% damage reduction, and Lull is kinda bad and an inferior ability being objectively worse than both radial blind and Equinox's rest. (The time it takes enemies to sleep is the same amount of time they should take to die). His 3 is great, and serene storm is good. That's it. Good. But "good" isn't good enough due to the complete lack of synergy, objective inferiority and the fact his entire kit is supposed to surround its use.

If his other three abilities did other things that complemented serene storm and Baruuk didn't have the restraint meter, Serene storm would be acceptable how it is. But it isn't. Being Exalted Blade level should be the baseline if anything, considering the restraint meter. My suggested buffs make it EB level.

Now, what does Baruuk bring to the table? 90% DR that can be somewhat awkwardly given to teammates (but nowhere near the flexibility of Gara) but is still good don't get me wrong, a pointless damage evasion ability (Requires range investment which Baruuk doesn't necessarily want to do, redundant with 90% DR) that doesn't provide complete invincibility (Doesn't work against AoE), a mediocre CC ability (Blocked by line of sight for the cherry on top), and an Exalted weapon which falls off hard when you aren't killing enemies in a few hits.

My two buffs would make Baruuk a more tanky alternative to Excalibur in exchange for having to go through slightly more hoops than him. Excalibur would be basic offense, while Baruuk would be tanky support.

[MasterBurik]

5 hours ago, torint_man said:

Now, what does Baruuk bring to the table? 90% DR that can be somewhat awkwardly given to teammates (but nowhere near the flexibility of Gara) but is still good don't get me wrong, a pointless damage evasion ability (Requires range investment which Baruuk doesn't necessarily want to do, redundant with 90% DR) that doesn't provide complete invincibility (Doesn't work against AoE), a mediocre CC ability (Blocked by line of sight for the cherry on top), and an Exalted weapon which falls off hard when you aren't killing enemies in a few hits.

Still don't believe that occurs. None of my testing with a partner has shown any notable increase in their DR when they are in possession of any number of daggers. Either my partner has poor math skills, or they don't provide DR to allies that you pass them on to.

 

Elude remains the primary ability that I believe needs a change. I get that DE has this "options" mentality, but the stat requirements to utilize it in an "alternative to 90% DR" fashion requires a cut into Strength that harms his 4 more than it is worth.

I don't mind Lull's LoS and sleep rate, as I tend to utilize it as a medium duration combat flow CC. Any buff in that regard would be great, but I'd prefer it to become a ranged reticule-based AoE. At least then, I wouldn't get Wario fart comments every time I cast it. 😉

While I have issues with the "things should die quickly past level 100" mentality, Serene Storm is Baruuk's only direct combat ability. The fact that it falls off past 150 or so, relegates Baruuk into a more cast-y Inaros at higher difficulties. He is a stable platform for weapons that can do all the killing for him. Reluctant warrior indeed.

Edited January 29, 2019 by MasterBurik

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

 

Serene Storm doesn't need a buff. People just want one.

The way it performs now it has no excuse being locked behind a restraint meter. It’s not worth using and it needs a buff.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

I dont know how many of you have seen this video, but Ill save you time and say just skip to 10 mins to get to the core of the message. Then again, maybe some of you should watch the whole video, its like you dont know how baruuk works it seems 😉 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 hours ago, TheSecondCaptain said:

I feel like Serene Storm makes up for that in having genuinely useful combos that allow you to control how enemies are positioned. Also, yes, it can kill high level armored enemies, it might be slower than Excal because while damaging they aren't meant to be entirely upfront power, but using slide attacks, finishers with his 2, & stunlocks with his block combo it's not very hard to murder enemies past level 100. Even without that, he's not a damage heavy frame. Excal, Atlas & Valk all have better exalted weapons for damage, but damage isn't the point of his design & even if he doesn't excel as much as them that doesn't mean he's weak. It's like comparing Mag & Saryn, sure, Saryn does more damage, but Mag has a lot of utility & CC that Saryn just doesn't. Baruuk won't deal as much damage as Excal Atlas & Valk, but none of them will ever have the sheer amount of control that he has.

We’ve been over this before. Baruuks theme is the “reluctant warrior” with a hidden power that he doesn’t want to use. The problem is the fact that his hidden power manages to be the worst exalted weapon in the game. If Serene Storm really truly wanted to fit Baruuks theme it have stats that could possibly outperform Exalted blade. Having crappy Ragdoll CC does not justify low damage.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

I dont know how many of you have seen this video, but Ill save you time and say just skip to 10 mins to get to the core of the message. Then again, maybe some of you should watch the whole video, its like you dont know how baruuk works it seems 😉 

I have. Even Trib says that the people saying Serene Storm should be stronger due to the restraint meter aren’t wrong. 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I have. Even Trib says that the people saying Serene Storm should be stronger due to the restraint meter aren’t wrong. 

But he also says that it doesnt need to be buffed to excals level (or really buffed as all) because its not had. Just different. The kits if excal and Baruuk are different, and trying to get their 4’s to parody is futule because you have to take the rest of the kit into perspective.

 

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

But he also says that it doesnt need to be buffed to excals level (or really buffed as all) because its not had. Just different. The kits if excal and Baruuk are different, and trying to get their 4’s to parody is futule because you have to take the rest of the kit into perspective.

 

 

As was stated before. His first 3 abilities represent the pacifist. His 4 is this hidden power he’s reluctant to use due to its overwhelming power. The problem is the fact that his 4 does so little damage really makes you question why there’s a restraint meter on the ability to begin with. The way it is now. Serene Storm should not be locked behind the restraint meter. If  DE wants to keep it behind the meter then they need to buff the hell out of it to justify the restrictions.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

We’ve been over this before. Baruuks theme is the “reluctant warrior” with a hidden power that he doesn’t want to use. The problem is the fact that his hidden power manages to be the worst exalted weapon in the game. If Serene Storm really truly wanted to fit Baruuks theme it have stats that could possibly outperform Exalted blade. Having crappy Ragdoll CC does not justify low damage.

*laughs in Wukong*

You think it's the worst Exalted weapon but you're failing to use it in conjunction with his abilities and instead just spam your air palms and say "me sad it do not good damage as excal."

And you haven't even played him yourself yet lul. Pairing it with his abilities makes it pretty damn powerful.

[robbybe01234]

49 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

As was stated before. His first 3 abilities represent the pacifist. His 4 is this hidden power he’s reluctant to use due to its overwhelming power. The problem is the fact that his 4 does so little damage really makes you question why there’s a restraint meter on the ability to begin with. The way it is now. Serene Storm should not be locked behind the restraint meter. If  DE wants to keep it behind the meter then they need to buff the hell out of it to justify the restrictions.

Facepalm emote huh? I don't think you know what you're talking about now.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

*laughs in Wukong*

You think it's the worst Exalted weapon but you're failing to use it in conjunction with his abilities and instead just spam your air palms and say "me sad it do not good damage as excal."

And you haven't even played him yourself yet lul. Pairing it with his abilities makes it pretty damn powerful.

Actually, Wukongs staff is better because it can reliably use the combo multiplier.

And an exalted weapon should not only be effective when using finishers.