Enialyx Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 See topic. Nightwave has a lot of problems, which have been covered ample times already. However, let's look at the Nightwave mission types. "Kill 150 enemies with heat damage" "Kill 100 tough enemies" "Do 9 invasions" "Do 8 bounties" "Place a sign" "Socket 5 statues" Everyone hates these kind of "quests" in MMORPGs. They're inane, boring and repetitive. Now, you could argue that the old alert system was like this as well. However, the key in alerts was that they were quick to do. Even in MMORPGs, you only have to do these once per quest-giver. Both alleviate the utter sense of boredom people get from doing these. In Nightwave, neither of these is true. Doing the tasks isn't quick, and to proceed, you have to do them over and over again. Every week, there's a new list of mindless chores. Should you get to rank 30, all the progress is reset and new mindless grind awaits. The more I've done these, the more I've thought that I'm not really playing Warframe at all. Rather, it's felt like some beginning levels in World of Warcraft. "Go to village, gather 50 berries". "Kill 10 wild trolls". "Weed Mrs. Zombie's garden." There's a reason why I've spent plenty of cash in Warframe. I'd like to think I'd double it. However, for that to happen you need to do better. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSG501 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 You'll likely have people coming in saying the new system is wonderful, there's nothing wrong etc soon, don't worry though you're not alone (I've been saying the new alert feels like a forced chore rather than fun for example) in your thoughts and in all honesty I suspect many more posts similar to this in the future when the newness starts to wear off, things start to repeat or the 'mission types' start to exclude the newbies even more. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Fire_Fly. Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawbeard Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 suckers will tell you "you don't have to do it" and "you just want free stuff" and "you get content after complaining about not having content and now you complain about content" I do wonder why people are ok with that kind of manipulative game design that keeps you busy, sure, but in this case took away something from you first. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tails_lol Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 i think this is true i think the alert system should be back but it should give nightwave standing or tokens . it will be the best of both worlds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenaBean Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I personally liked Nightwave when it first dropped, but after looking on here and re-evaluating I understand now why so many people hate it. I for one enjoy being able to purchase resources like Nitain now (I got saryn prime finally) and being able to get slots for free. However, I do see how boring the challenges are. I think the best idea would be to award players Wolf Credits every couple days, that way they can buy what they choose. Then DE can also add back alerts in some capacity. I do not know if they should bring back the entire old system, but I am a big fan of the Gift Of the Lotus alerts. It's a shame those are only on Fridays. Perhaps they could do more alerts like that but every day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSG501 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, BenaBean said: I personally liked Nightwave when it first dropped, but after looking on here and re-evaluating I understand now why so many people hate it. I for one enjoy being able to purchase resources like Nitain now (I got saryn prime finally) and being able to get slots for free. However, I do see how boring the challenges are. I think the best idea would be to award players Wolf Credits every couple days, that way they can buy what they choose. Then DE can also add back alerts in some capacity. I do not know if they should bring back the entire old system, but I am a big fan of the Gift Of the Lotus alerts. It's a shame those are only on Fridays. Perhaps they could do more alerts like that but every day of the week. Don't worry (I know we had our little discussion over on the other thread), some of us just pick up on things faster, it will dawn on the others after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenaBean Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 1 minute ago, LSG501 said: Don't worry (I know we had our little discussion over on the other thread), some of us just pick up on things faster, it will dawn on the others after a while. Yeah. I know for a fact De has to do something now unless they are just completely ignoring the forums. Obviously the majority are not happy with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSG501 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 1 minute ago, BenaBean said: unless they are just completely ignoring the forums. um... yeah we won't got there lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnuggleBuckets Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 How they initially framed the pitch, sold to us how Nightwave will be an improvement, was that this entire system would be more story driven, have more meaning, be more reliable and friendly to people with lives. But then we only get vague nonsense, promises from Nora of telling us something, while putting us to do house chores. It's like a quest giver giving us a chore list for cleaning their house, while every once in a while telling us that we are helping with the grand fight against the big baddies outside, in the narrative happening out there in the world, while we slave on with these menial checklists wondering if we might peek some of that action outside the window. Just so lifeless, boring, inane, repetitive, shallow. This format was always inoffensive when it was in its proper place, the original Affinity challenges in missions, as a side bonus we could do for extra affinity. Who in their right mind thought it would work brilliantly as the main and only means of progressing through rewards and story? It's even more divorced from story and meaningful actions than the original alerts, which had the potential to be made more immersive and story-driven, as you could have made encrypted distress signals from prisoners (rescue alert), spies relaying info on spotting high value targets (capture), corpus generals calling all freelancers about a bounty on grineer aggressors (invasion) etc, then maybe either double lengths but halve frequencies of alerts, or turn all alerts into cooldown ones like Ayatan hunts and Clem survivals, with Nitain having a 6-12h cooldown before you can repeat it, nano spores a 1h, oxium 3h, forma 3d, potatoes a week maybe? They exacerbated the sense of having no progression with this system too, as now you do these boring chores with no reward, over time finish one chore (act), get a bit of standing, but not enough for a tier rank up, so no reward, then keep doing them, then reach a tier rank up, and your first impression is a lousy sticker, a participation award, a sigil that doesn't even allow you to earn standing passively. Standing doesn't do anything for us, it's just this abstract signal that you are slowly moving along a painful line. Wolf Creds are rewarded only on some tiers and not others. It's just so unrewarding. Anyone remember when the Plains of Eidolon first launched? People complained of a lack of reward, as you did stages, then only at the end of the entire bounty got something. They luckily patched that to reward on each stage. And at least the stages are built to feel like you are doing something concrete, sabotaging supplies, capturing high value targets, rescuing prisoners, culling grineer forces. Nightwave needs serious rework, it feels so incomplete and half-baked, like the devs felt pressure to release something as they have been delaying most of their mainlines and other advertised content for a few months now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconer777 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 In principle, a fairly common model in online games. But it is realized, in my opinion, so far not in the best way. I look at this system from the point of view of a veteran (relatively, of course), and from the point of view of a beginner. I have an account on a PC, MR-19. And on PS4, MR-6. This system did not force me to log into my senior account again, which I had not logged in since last fall. There are no awards that would interest me. And to go through the same missions anew (such as invasions or Cetus) is just boring. This, in my opinion, looks like it’s as if in WoW the veterans were offered to go through the initial quests “kill ten boars” and the like again. It would hardly have caused their interest)) From the point of view of a beginner, then on the MP 6 the implementation of these tasks is quite difficult. Sorties and Eidolon are not available, Ayatyan sculptures also do not fall very often, even runaway criminals can be a problem. In general, IMHO for veterans is boring, for beginners it is difficult. It would probably be the best solution to keep both systems old and new. However, DE is going to make changes as this system develops .. we will see) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Uh... Got a problem here. I read the first few comments and my eyes rolled pretty hard. Now one seems to be stuck. Anyone know how to fix that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconer777 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 8 минут назад, SnuggleBuckets сказал: Nightwave needs serious rework, it feels so incomplete and half-baked, like the devs felt pressure to release something as they have been delaying most of their mainlines and other advertised content for a few months now. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohforf3 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 A simple fix that would seem to make a lot of the complainers happy is bringing back the old alerts but replacing all the rewards with night wave rep. Your still doing simple inane tasks ,like your complaining about with the current system, but they will be in the form of random missions like it was with the old system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Aneres_Omega Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 31 minutes ago, Ohforf3 said: A simple fix that would seem to make a lot of the complainers happy is bringing back the old alerts but replacing all the rewards with night wave rep. Your still doing simple inane tasks ,like your complaining about with the current system, but they will be in the form of random missions like it was with the old system. No, many want the alerts back that still gives actual rewards no something stupid like standings. Have you not read anything from those with concerns? Alerts dropped ultra rare items found only in alerts or very low drop rate in certain missions. Bringing back alerts and have them along side NW. Besides lets touch on something else, if any new player comes in well past the halfway mark then there is no chance they will get important resources that are needed for construction of WF and equipment. Alerts didn't have that problem, you missed the alert it would be back in a while. NW you come in late then your hard work meant nothing. People do quests they expect rewards that are useful and something worthless in the end like rep or WCs that will be lost in the end which would work against new players who joined the game at the wrong time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kmckinstry Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Right on! Now, just think about loosing your standing and any of the other "credit" systems from the syndicates or even Baro Ki’Teer's Ducats and if you didn't use them before the next week you loose the extra's and would have to start fresh to collect more the next week or visit! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)The_WR3CK Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 all mission types should have nightwave faction tied to it and you reach a daily cap that way you could do PVP kuva sorties or whatever you like to gain faction standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 3 hours ago, (PS4)kmckinstry said: Right on! Now, just think about loosing your standing and any of the other "credit" systems from the syndicates or even Baro Ki’Teer's Ducats and if you didn't use them before the next week you loose the extra's and would have to start fresh to collect more the next week or visit! We seem to be on the second week. Did you lose your cred? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enialyx Posted March 11, 2019 Author Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) We're now at week 3. Let's look at the tasks again: "Kill 10 enemies with finishers." "Mine 6 rare gems." "Mine 6 rare gems again." "Catch 6 rare fish." "Complete 3 sabotages." "Complete 4 vaults." "Complete 4 Halls of Ascension." "Complete 5 sorties." "Complete 8 bounties." Absolutely nothing has changed. None of these tasks bring anything new to the game. All they are is mindless chores. Edited March 11, 2019 by Enialyx 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplygnome Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Im very negative of NW. I feel it requires me to do gameplay I find unfun and is just a barrier till I can play gameplay I like. However, I will say, I dont mind the daily challenges that are similar to *Kill X with fire *Kill X while sliding *Kill X faction *Kill X type *Kill X with bow only Simply because I could do these while CHOOSING the type of mission I want to play. Most everything else is directly dictating what I need to do, and I don't like it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnuggleBuckets Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 The way the devs made it sound in the Steve stream and I think in other places was that nothing will change at all for series 1, they are "for some reason" completely powerless and locked with it. Why? That's something they won't share. (If I would be generous, I might imagine it having something to do with the way they advertised about doing this their first cross platform simultaneous launch of content, they made a big deal about it, and maybe somehow that messing up with how to greenlight new patches to the system across the board with Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony involved in the certification process. But that's the only speculation I have to go on.) With each passing week, the problems pile up with why any of these house chores are important to advance a story about an escaped prisoner, or why some pirate DJ rewards rep for this disconnected busy work. On 2019-03-08 at 5:06 AM, SnuggleBuckets said: There's massive narrative dissonance with why Nora cares and rewards standing to you for collecting mods, slotting statues, scanning objects, killing x enemies with fire, doing a sortie with a buddy-- Why is this important to learn more about an escaped prisoner? Why do we care about her? On 2019-03-08 at 5:06 AM, SnuggleBuckets said: It's not that everyone is criticising not having access to every toy immediately and think new and casuals should have the same "elite" rewards, but that how it is built currently, the linear tiers, require new & casual players to get to the same place elitists want to achieve in the same limited time frame, just so that they can have enough creds for their expensive offerings, that do nothing for the elitists who already have everything offered there. (A conflicting balance of the entire system.) Adding two notes I made in the feedback topic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplygnome Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 @SnuggleBuckets The point about nora is a good one. She seems more thematically joined with the old Alert system than she does with the non-narrative that is NW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnuggleBuckets Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, simplygnome said: @SnuggleBuckets The point about nora is a good one. She seems more thematically joined with the old Alert system than she does with the non-narrative that is NW. Yeah she feels like she originally belonged with the alerts. A pirate Radio channel calling tenno, saying "Hey, so I picked up a weird distress signal, mind checking it out? Seemed someone got into a bit of a pickle with the grineer and are now being held in custody. And I heard there's a commander moving to an outpost to inspect it, could be a good opportunity to grab them for some intel, also the corpus are moving some sensitive information from my latest intel to a new network. Here's some coordinates, and don't worry I'm sure I can give you something in return." And then you'd have an "alert", an actual mission! Can you imagine that? (Sarcasm, sorry, can't resist with these boring check list challenges to poke fun at how disconnected they are from not just being some noble warrior like the quests sometimes tries to make out of us in the grand war, but even freelancers and mercenaries wouldn't stoop this low for such a small pay off in these acts, and I like roleplaying as a merc or freelancer just sailing the galaxy trying to make a living.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Stealth_Cobra Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) Gotta agree, this is getting old really fast being forced into huge chore list of stuff to do each week just to progress a perpetual event counter. It it was a once and done deal, it would be fine, but seeing as nightwave is here to stay and we're getting multiple seasons back to back, this is going to get more and more tedious to do these laundry list of tasks, especially when they start to repeat and rotate each week or season. Part of what's great about Warframe is that it's kinda open in terms of our progression goals. We get to choose what content we want to do based on our goals and objectives. I want a frame, I farm said frame, I want that mod, I farm it, etc... Nightwave is the opposite of that. Each week I have to do content I have no reason of doing... In gamemodes where I already have all the rewards. I don't need drift mods, all my syndicates are capped, I have hundreds of filled ayatans statues, ect... I understand the desire to make old gamemodes relevant, but if you add no rewards in said mode and just force us to grind old content each week to get standing... Kinda sucks. Last week I needed gems, so I farmed plains and Venus for quite some time. This week, two of the challenges are to mine rare gems... Meaning I have to do it again, but this time I'm not doing it for myself, for my own progression, just because you DEcided we all had to do it. Just let me set my own goals, kinda like destiny does. In destiny you get multiple daily and weekly bounties, then player gets to choose the ones they want to do. If I don't feel like playing gambit today or this week and I want to do strikes, I will skip gambit bounties and pick only bounties I want to do. If I suck at PvP, I can skip PvP bounties. If I love raiding, I'll pick the raid bounties. Just give us more variety and allow us to choose our weekly bounties... Maybe put a weekly cap so people don't go overboard and complete every single one (then again, who cares, if someone wants to nolife and get the umbra forma on week two , it's his problem). Cause right now i'm starting to avoid doing most tasks in-game because "Hey , why bother farming kuva when next well we'll probably get something like "Do 10 Kuva Floods, why do anything really when I'll be forced to do it again for a challenge next week. Heck,can't be the only one that would prefer getting all the season goals at the same time, then getting to progressively pick the ones I need to do and do them in the order I see fit... Or at least getting the full list of weekly challenges in advance so I know, hmmm, week three I'll have to do five sorties and farm many gems , maybe I won't do any sorties on week one and two and I'll wait to do my gem farming... Edited March 11, 2019 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajFauxPas Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 On 2019-03-03 at 7:59 AM, Enialyx said: ...Everyone hates these kind of "quests" in MMORPGs. They're inane, boring and repetitive. Now, you could argue that the old alert system was like this as well. However, the key in alerts was that they were quick to do. Even in MMORPGs, you only have to do these once per quest-giver. Both alleviate the utter sense of boredom people get from doing these.... @OP: I see your point and I agree to a small extent, but I have not felt more "grind" in Nightwave than I have for things like Gunblade stance farming or Tellurium farming. In otherwords, I find Nightwave to be fairly easy compared to the rest of the stuff I'm trying to do in Warframe. Nightwave does require time investment and specific kit/weapon/damage types, but can be done simultaneously while doing other things around the starmap, which makes it awesome. Two rewards for the price of one. Except for the Kuva 60 minute survival w/ no life support... that I'm passing on. 😄 So far the rewards are good, but honestly, less potatoes I see. Much less. GFTL only happened once last week that I saw, as invasion reward. Of course, I missed it since I completed only one round before the invasion went 100% corpus and disappeared 😞 I do miss alerts. They are fun, fast, easy, But, I'm spending more time on void fissures and caches, so... it's a chance to do other things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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