Valkyr NEED rework

[NoLazyShadow]

And for those Sonic wanna be players using hysterya 24/7 - before you write "She's fine, noob. No need to rework her!" - read the title again. She. Is. Outdated and weak. She is ignored for years by DE AND the community, 2 of her skills are 100% useless. Hysterya provide you with god mode(wow, I can't die! But I already have full umbra set, arcanes and stable sourse of heal from Operator witch makes me immortal) and short range claws + insane energy consumption. Paralysis is short ranged and can't cancel enemy animation, open them for finisher, but you have time to kill only 1 at the time.

On the other hand we have Exal. Exalted blade - use little to no energy, have 100% status and long range attacks. Ridal blind/howl - AOE stun with good range that cancel enemy animation and open eveyone for finisher for a solid time duration. And hey - he got a tennoget skin every bloody tennocon round, while Valk didn't recive one in TWO YEARS!

Melee 2.9 is about to hit our faces. Melee 3.0 will arrive faster than Half Life 3 damn it(Yea, I know -  that's hard to belive in). Exal is all around better than valkyr, Wukong gonna have a bloody rework soon and what about our melee queen? No one care about her, no one talk about her. We need to start talking about her! Let DE know that SHE demand what she dererve as a melee killing machine! I won't give you any of my suggestion about her possible changes - you never liked them anyway and I'm not a game designer.

 

P.S. For those who walk to ask. I play her since she became avaible for farm from Savad 5 back in update 11. She is my main and I tried EVERYTHING on her. So let me asure you - I know what I'm talking about here.

[CreamedSoda]

11 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said:

And for those Sonic wanna be players using hysterya 24/7 - before you write "She's fine, noob. No need to rework her!" - read the title again. She. Is. Outdated and weak. She is ignored for years by DE AND the community, 2 of her skills are 100% useless. Hysterya provide you with god mode(wow, I can't die! But I already have full umbra set, arcanes and stable sourse of heal from Operator witch makes me immortal) and short range claws + insane energy consumption. Paralysis is short ranged and can't cancel enemy animation, open them for finisher, but you have time to kill only 1 at the time.

On the other hand we have Exal. Exalted blade - use little to no energy, have 100% status and long range attacks. Ridal blind/howl - AOE stun with good range that cancel enemy animation and open eveyone for finisher for a solid time duration. And hey - he got a tennoget skin every bloody tennocon round, while Valk didn't recive one in TWO YEARS!

Melee 2.9 is about to hit our faces. Melee 3.0 will arrive faster than Half Life 3 damn it(Yea, I know -  that's hard to belive in). Exal is all around better than valkyr, Wukong gonna have a bloody rework soon and what about our melee queen? No one care about her, no one talk about her. We need to start talking about her! Let DE know that SHE demand what she dererve as a melee killing machine! I won't give you any of my suggestion about her possible changes - you never liked them anyway and I'm not a game designer.

 

P.S. For those who walk to ask. I play her since she became avaible for farm from Savad 5 back in update 11. She is my main and I tried EVERYTHING on her. So let me asure you - I know what I'm talking about here.

Lemme put it this way, Valkyr is much more useful at higher levels where you can actually die and using finishers matters, stop playing your Valkitty at level 20 and wondering why your survival skills and very high single target damage sucks 

[Sasorika]

Actually it is more about "how" you play a warframe.
For me, Valkyr is a berserk warframe.
I´m using her Rip Line to close the gap between me and enemy groups, focusing on Warcry combined with Eternal War, to swing a heavy blade paired with  Tempo Royale´s block attack to move only with melee attacks. I only use Hysteria to revive teammates. During the fight I´m using Rage to gain energy for Lifestrike in order to get healh.

Having a build focusing on 299& strenght, default range and a slighty increased duration but barely 45% efficiency and default max energy. Because I only aim for Warcry and using it once for the whole mission. An easy berserk task with 3667 armor.

[tarfeef101]

25 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said:

P.S. For those who walk to ask. I play her since she became avaible for farm from Savad 5 back in update 11. She is my main and I tried EVERYTHING on her. So let me asure you - I know what I'm talking about here.

Sorry, but doing something for a long time does not mean you know what you're talking about. As proof, I offer the youtube channel of OriginalWickedFun (no hate, he's a chill guy who loves the game, but damn he doesn't know much about it given how much he plays)

Also valkyr has mobility, cc, a buff, and an exalted ult with invulnerability. sounds pretty powerful to me. not to mention is pretty tanky without abilities as well. and, of course, at least right now, melee is by far and away the most powerful form of attack in the game. I really don't see how you can claim she NEEDS a rework

As Whitestrake0 pointed out, those things you claim don't matter actually do. A lot. Just in higher level content. In lower level content, just use a volt with a polearm. You can melee to your heart's content faster than valkyr and with more other abilities that'll help. But 90 minutes into a survival, you'll appreciate valkyr's finishers and invulnerability.

[peterc3]

1 hour ago, NoLazyShadow said:

So let me asure you - I know what I'm talking about here.

Let me assure you: you don't. You didn't the last half dozen times I've seen you do this thread or a variant thereof.

In addition, frame mains are the worst source of ideas for changing a frame. DE would want more people to play it. That means not hyperfocusing the kit into something mains already like, but more. That doesn't get more people playing a frame.

[DeMonkey]

5 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

In addition, frame mains are the worst source of ideas for changing a frame. DE would want more people to play it. That means not hyperfocusing the kit into something mains already like, but more. That doesn't get more people playing a frame.

I don't see... how that's even remotely a thing? How does that make any sense whatsoever?

DE design a frame to be played a certain way (with Wukong and Valkyr it's evidently a focus on melee, for Trinity it's obviously a support/healer etc), someone comes along, finds they enjoy that playstyle and "mains" that frame. Why are their ideas suddenly now not as relevant to DE? If anything they're the most relevant, as generally speaking they're playing the frame the way it was designed and for the intent it was designed for, and thus have ideas on how to reinforce that aspect.

If DE only wanted ideas that would encourage more people to play frames, then they wouldn't bother making roles and niches for them in the first place. We'd end up with frames that are essentially varying shades of grey as each one is made to cater to as many people as possible...

That's ludicrous.

Plus, you're not considering the fact that even if a frame is designed for a certain playstyle, not everyone who enjoys that playstyle will enjoy that frame, perhaps because it's a bad frame. For example, Wukong is a melee frame, without a doubt. Not everyone who enjoys melee however will enjoy Wukong, because by and large the frame is garbage and has largely unenjoyable abilities. 

This means that, despite Wukong being designed for a playstyle that melee users will enjoy, he's not getting played as much as he could. He doesn't need his kit to become something else, he simply needs to made better and more enjoyable at doing what he already does. That will get people playing him. Know the best way to make his current kit better and more enjoyable at doing what it already does? Speaking to the people who actually play him as he is.

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

DE design a frame to be played a certain way (with Wukong and Valkyr it's evidently a focus on melee, for Trinity it's obviously a support/healer etc), someone comes along, finds they enjoy that playstyle and "mains" that frame. Why are their ideas suddenly now not as relevant to DE? If anything they're the most relevant, as generally speaking they're playing the frame the way it was designed and for the intent it was designed for, and thus have ideas on how to reinforce that aspect.

I agree.  You and I both know how many times on this forum people have tried to suggest changes to frames they don't play while not realizing the frame can already do the things they are trying to suggest. 

I'm of the mindset that when you main a frame, you tend to learn the finer details, strengths, and weaknesses better than average "right tool for the job" players.  This gives better insight into just how much any changes can truly effect how the frame behaves or works.  For example, I once asked Ember mains somethings and found out from them that WoF has a hard 5 target limit.  By maining Ivara, I found out that your pets get the extra stealth damage bonuses from Prowl.  Also that Infiltrate augment causes her to have increased speed on Dashwires as well as complete protection from all Orb lasers in the Void. 

That said, if I'm ever interested in truly learning about a frame, I'm going to ask a known main of that frame first.  It's just Common Sense. 😄  

[peterc3]

24 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

thus have ideas on how to reinforce that aspect.

But does that aspect represent something DE intends or something the player has invented in their head?

Valkyr, to me, is one of my goto frames to play because she isn't complicated. She does what it says on the tin. Could her kit be tweaked? Sure. Have half her kit replaced because players don't get that themes don't need to be so obvious that you are beaten over the head with the obviousness of the reference or style every time you look at it? No.

Frame mains can see the flaws in a certain playstyle. They are also not immune to tunnel vision.

[DeMonkey]

22 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

But does that aspect represent something DE intends or something the player has invented in their head?

I feel I was pretty clear on that if I'm honest. And really, it's pretty hard to invent an aspect of a frame that DE didn't intend.

Trinity may be the support/healer frame, but some players will prefer to play her as a channeling melee tank. That's fine, DE gave her abilities that allow her to tank and recover energy, for all intents and purposes this is an aspect that is intentional. She was designed to be able to do this.

I don't really see where you're going with this at all? If you find aspects of a frame that DE didn't intend, then generally speaking that's called a "bug".

22 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Have half her kit replaced because players don't get that themes don't need to be so obvious that you are beaten over the head with the obviousness of the reference or style every time you look at it? No.

That's a strawman. Sometimes bad abilities just need to be done away with, same as Super Jump was.

Would you tell someone proposing that Excal's Super Jump be replaced by a unique sword that they, "Don't get that themes don't need to be so obvious that you are beaten over the head with the obviousness of the reference or style every time you look at it".

It's not an argument at all, it's a contrived objection for the sake of objecting.

I really wish to understand why you'd do this, because it's largely detrimental to threads as it confuses and antagonises instead of encouraging constructive debate that deals with the actual topic.

37 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

You and I both know how many times on this forum people have tried to suggest changes to frames they don't play while not realizing the frame can already do the things they are trying to suggest. 

Yeah, like when people say Wukong needs more damage.

Absolutely cracks me up.

Edited March 5, 2019 by DeMonkey

[simplygnome]

She's no where near top of the list needed reworks. Hell, the two frames that JUST GOT REWORKS need to be reworked again before Valk. 

[Traumtulpe]

3 hours ago, Whitestrake0 said:

Lemme put it this way, Valkyr is much more useful at higher levels where you can actually die and using finishers matters, stop playing your Valkitty at level 20 and wondering why your survival skills and very high single target damage sucks

If you have to kill enemies with finishers your weapons suck. It's fun but not efficient. Also, Valkyr is not very good at killing with finishers compared to other frames (or even Naramon). Valkyr is durable enough for high levels, but her armor is worse than the 90% damage reduction many other frames have. A good melee weapon is far superior to Hysteria's claws.

3 hours ago, Sasorika said:

I´m using her Rip Line to close the gap between me and enemy groups

Try using a mod that improves bullet jumping - it's actually better than ripline and uses no energy.

1 hour ago, simplygnome said:

She's no where near top of the list needed reworks. Hell, the two frames that JUST GOT REWORKS need to be reworked again before Valk. 

Of her 4 abilities, 2 are literally useless and the other 2 function but have issues. I expect better, and DE can do better.

There are 3 ways to play Valkyr:

1. Warcry based; This is very similar, yet vastly inferior, to Nova. Nova slows better and more reliable, her buff (200% damage) is better, and she is more durable.
2. Eternal War based; Basically you don't use any abilities. Just spam melee. You can't even rebuff allies. It works, but it really should be improved.
3. Permanent Hysteria; This is just stupid and shouldn't be a thing.

Notice how I didn't mention Ripline and Paralysis? That's because they are irrelevant, and their augments are trash.

[Andele3025]

2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

If you have to kill enemies with finishers your weapons suck. It's fun but not efficient. Also, Valkyr is not very good at killing with finishers compared to other frames (or even Naramon). Valkyr is durable enough for high levels, but her armor is worse than the 90% damage reduction many other frames have. A good melee weapon is far superior to Hysteria's claws.

Wrong.

2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Try using a mod that improves bullet jumping - it's actually better than ripline and uses no energy.

OR one could just use both for even more mobility without having to touch walls if ripline had pull strengths reversed

2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Of her 4 abilities, 2 are literally useless and the other 2 function but have issues. I expect better, and DE can do better.

There are 3 ways to play Valkyr:

1. Warcry based; This is very similar, yet vastly inferior, to Nova. Nova slows better and more reliable, her buff (200% damage) is better, and she is more durable.

Warcry is also melee and armor buff tho (and while moving the slow to para would be nice), its only downside is 4 being derp in damage storage calculation where the damage stored doesnt care about armor unless you fail completely (and if hysteria just was nezha ring without pool, it already has a minimum 77.5% DR if not 90.3% due to being 30% of total damage with either armor or if somehow one got mega corrosive procced, impact to hp reducing it by further 25%.

2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

1. Permanent Hysteria; This is just stupid and shouldn't be a thing.

Wrong again. It actually is a thing and what valkyr inherently IS but its not much fun to play because its "kill room or two, STOP PLAYING to go off somewhere to bulletjump/latch onto a ceiling ledge to toggle, repeat" unless its a short mission type because unlike what would make sense (hysteria punishing you for tanking too much damage and not attacking) it punishes you for doing it correctly (staying in hysteria for long) and encourages cowardice (running AWAY from potential enemies for toggle).

 

[Traumtulpe]

2 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Wrong.

Well I think you are wrong. What now? Care to elaborate so I can tell you what mistake you made?

I have no idea what you are trying to say regarding Warcry - the point is: Just use Nova, she does the same thing much better. And regarding permanent Hysteria; I mean literally permanent Hysteria thanks to broken arcanes.

[Andele3025]

12 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Well I think you are wrong. What now? Care to elaborate so I can tell you what mistake you made?

I have no idea what you are trying to say regarding Warcry - the point is: Just use Nova, she does the same thing much better. And regarding permanent Hysteria; I mean literally permanent Hysteria thanks to broken arcanes.

Finishers take into account total damage and crit which means even without BR (or anything not a CL dagger), at a usable baseline valkyr (and baruuk) has functionally the highest finisher damage (depending on power strength/practicality beaten by augment finisher buffed hammers and exalted). As far as her claws being worse than other melee, its just the range which is worse (which for a lot of people is a big downside), but valkyr can literally break the speed at which the games packets update player location causing her to pseudo teleport from raw attack speed so either that if you can control it or simply slide attacking partially solves that.

Also yes, literally permanent hysteria. It should be a thing, it should just have a mechanic that punishes you for soaking too much damage without dealing damage back to enemies instead of a "stop playing like a coward to toggle every 25-30s" Arcanes dont change that.

[Traumtulpe]

I never doubted the ability of finisher attacks to kill one enemy at a time - but say in a high level survival mission, killing one enemy at a time is not satisfactory. I'd rather mow enemies down with a polearm or heavy blade on the move.

Regarding her claws; They are not very good against armor and have tiny reach. And permanent invincibility is not a good thing period.

[mrrobotto67]

I think she needs a tweak to some of her abilities so they can be up to date. (And maybe change her 1 lol)

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

10 hours ago, tarfeef101 said:

Sorry, but doing something for a long time does not mean you know what you're talking about.

This.  H3dshot's favorite frame is Nyx and he's a relatively well known youtuber, but I would never recommend his umbral Nyx build.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

7 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Notice how I didn't mention Ripline and Paralysis? That's because they are irrelevant, and their augments are trash.

Those are the only 2 abilities I use on Valkyr.

Prolonged Paralysis is my go to

Granted I have switched over to Khora as Ensnare is like a better Original Prolonged Paralysis (when they would be grouped up on Stealth Finisher standing mode), also affecting airborne targets and bosses.

I do miss the mobility from Valkyr's passive and Ripline, but oh well.

While Paralysis has been nerfed over the years: lost auto weakpoints(headshot) capability & no longer ragdoll (knockback) alive enemies even though it has a scaling knockback statistic. (Original Paralysis non-Augment used to be like a 360° Banshee Sonic Boom)*

Prolonged Paralysis still allows Radiation to trigger Stealth Melee Multiplier (confused enemies facing away from you) & let's CC keep Sentinels and other players free from harm. *Caveat - if the enemy is able to be CC by Prolonged Paralysis 

✓Seems like a balance issue where newer frames and abilities seem to be allowed to affect more enemies than some older frame abilities (Unless Rhino Stomp or Nova Molecular Prime)*

Prolonged Paralysis being reliably spammed:

 

 

 

 

[Traumtulpe]

3 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Granted I have switched over to Khora as Ensnare is like a better Original Prolonged Paralysis

You should try Nidus. If all you are doing is grouping enemies up and hitting them with an unbuffed melee weapon, why not be actually good at it and immortal at the same time?

[NoLazyShadow]

13 часов назад, peterc3 сказал:

Have half her kit replaced because players don't get that themes don't need to be so obvious that you are beaten over the head with the obviousness of the reference or style every time you look at it? No.

You don't get it, don't you? She is old and weak. Her abilitys were designed around melee 1.0 and parkour 1.0. Look at wukong. He got more than a half of his kit filled with useless abilitys. Same thing was with Exal. Time moves on, things change and warframe most evolve to keep up with the game. Valkyr was left behind by DE and Exal and soon..even Wukong will disrespect her.

 

14 часов назад, peterc3 сказал:

In addition, frame mains are the worst source of ideas for changing a frame. DE would want more people to play it. That means not hyperfocusing the kit into something mains already like, but more. That doesn't get more people playing a frame.

Oh boy! Machine, hold me up. This kid have a problem with undestanding the game! "Frame mains are the worst source of ideas for changing a frame" - B.S. People who know every detail about kit of their frame, how to use it, how to build it and what kind of weapon could benefit from it - the worst source of info. Ok, then! Who are supposte to provide feedback then, hm.  New players that don't know anything?  Best they can do is see somethnig that might look cool, run to the forum and scream "OMG! THAT ABILITY IS F*** OP! NERF! NERF! NERF!" It's like walk into a Power station and say " I know. You have a higher education, years of experience and you like a fish in water in this business, but your feedback is the worst, so we invite cooks that doesn't understand anything in our work. Now he'll tell us what we need, yes"

 

15 часов назад, Whitestrake0 сказал:

stop playing your Valkitty at level 20 and wondering why your survival skills and very high single target damage sucks 

Level 20? Now that's a way to insult someone...

 

15 часов назад, Sasorika сказал:

I only use Hysteria to revive teammates. During the fight I´m using Rage to gain energy for Lifestrike in order to get healh.

Why would you do that? Operator mode for CC, revives and energy that I don't need anyway. Lifestrike? I'm suprised people still use that...I mean come on, operator have repair arcane. AOE heal in 20m for everyone.

 

11 часов назад, Traumtulpe сказал:

• Warcry based; This is very similar, yet vastly inferior, to Nova. Nova slows better and more reliable, her buff (200% damage) is better, and she is more durable.
• Eternal War based; Basically you don't use any abilities. Just spam melee. You can't even rebuff allies. It works, but it really should be improved.
• Permanent Hysteria; This is just stupid and shouldn't be a thing.

1. Bad idea if you ask me. Prolonged.Paralysis works better

2. The only way to play Valk for last..years.

3. We don't do that. Hysterya is useless and give me nothnig, but restrictions.

[Andele3025]

13 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said:

You don't get it, don't you? She is old and weak. Her abilitys were designed around melee 1.0 and parkour 1.0. Look at wukong. He got more than a half of his kit filled with useless abilitys. Same thing was with Exal. Time moves on, things change and warframe most evolve to keep up with the game. Valkyr was left behind by DE and Exal and soon..even Wukong will disrespect her.

Wukong suffers from animation locking and theme being prioritized over gameloop for the kit. Excal is on the stronger section of frames since radial blind is so efficient (and all exalted weapons have base DPS that other melee get to only at 2.5x or even 3x combo from the start, excals closer to 2x still being offset by 700% multiplier from RB and thats not even counting CO, be it on CB or slash setup).

13 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said:

Oh boy! Machine, hold me up. This kid have a problem with undestanding the game! "Frame mains are the worst source of ideas for changing a frame" - B.S. People who know every detail about kit of their frame, how to use it, how to build it and what kind of weapon could benefit from it - the worst source of info. Ok, then! Who are supposte to provide feedback then, hm.  New players that don't know anything?  Best they can do is see somethnig that might look cool, run to the forum and scream "OMG! THAT ABILITY IS F*** OP! NERF! NERF! NERF!" It's like walk into a Power station and say " I know. You have a higher education, years of experience and you like a fish in water in this business, but your feedback is the worst, so we invite cooks that doesn't understand anything in our work. Now he'll tell us what we need, yes"

While true, your OP shows you are in fact not a good source of feedback because both ripline and paralysis have solid usage. Ripline is held back by having to be cast multiple times due to enemy and self pull strength being reverse of what they should be, but expanding air movement without having to touch walls is a solid usage for a skill.

13 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said:

3. We don't do that. Hysterya is useless and give me nothnig, but restrictions. 

You dont, further proof of you not using valkyr for valkyrs kit but as a discount nidus/rhino.

[DeMonkey]

13 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Wukong suffers from animation locking and theme being prioritized over gameloop for the kit.

If anything his theme wasn't prioritised enough. Instead of making a deity they made "guy with stick".

[Andele3025]

14 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

If anything his theme wasn't prioritised enough. Instead of making a deity they made "guy with stick". 

Monkey King wasnt really a deity as much as a philosophical/religious self insert OC donut steel just like pharaohs adding themselves in god variation to egyptian myth or lancelot and galahad pushing france into arthurian legend, etc.

Tho point is focusing on each skill looking and "acting" in the idea of a part of the story/myth made them not work together even when it comes to innate mechanics (and as said jab and cloudwalker also suffer from heavy animation lock interrupting gameplay).
 

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Andele3025 said:

Monkey King wasnt really a deity as much as a philosophical/religious self insert OC donut steel just like pharaohs adding themselves in god variation to egyptian myth or lancelot and galahad pushing france into arthurian legend, etc.

You know what I meant though, yes? 

In the same way the frame isn't actually a "guy with a stick" he wasn't actually a deity.

2 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Tho point is focusing on each skill looking and "acting" in the idea of a part of the story/myth made them not work together even when it comes to innate mechanics (and as said jab and cloudwalker also suffer from heavy animation lock interrupting gameplay).

I don't think that's their problem at all tbh. As I said, he doesn't follow the theme well enough, not that he follows it too hard.

If he were actually following the theme, then Iron Jab would have an unlimited range and the potential to hit in a large cone due to the staff's ability to expand. It doesn't however, because it doesn't follow the theme very well.

Turning into/riding on a cloud was used for mobility, yet in Warframe is reduces you to a snail pace. Again, this doesn't follow the theme of the ability nearly well enough, not too well.

[NoLazyShadow]

2 минуты назад, Andele3025 сказал:

You dont, further proof of you not using valkyr for valkyrs kit but as a discount nidus/rhino

Ok then, why should I use hysterya? My melee have more range and damage. I don't need heal or god mode. And don;t compare her with nidus/rhino. They are not melee frames and all their skills are usefull in battle.

 

4 минуты назад, Andele3025 сказал:

Ripline is held back by having to be cast multiple times due to enemy and self pull strength being reverse of what they should be, but expanding air movement without having to touch walls is a solid usage for a skill.

I never said ripline is useless. It's solid mobility tool, but as CC tool - it's not working, sending your enemy in space.

 

6 минут назад, Andele3025 сказал:

paralysis have solid usage

Only with prolonged paralysis. Without it there is no point of using it