Opticor Vandal - Alt-fire Suggestion

[Nox_Terminus]

With the introduction of the Opticor Vandal feedback has been rather mixed. On one hand its overall DPS is increased, but for players who enjoyed the one-shot kill mentality of the original, Its rather underwhelming. Especially since were unlikely to see another variant of it for a very long time. So to solve this quandary I've come up with a simple fix that will neutralize the negativity being thrown out by both sides of the debate. To put it bluntly in this case 'Why not both?'

So the change is simple. Add an alternative fire-mode that captures the essence of the original Opticor, but leaves the Opticor Vandal's base firing statistics intact.

Spoiler

 

[DarkRuler2500]

The nature of each vandal/wraith was to provide different stats compared to the main weapon.
Mixing those stats (also 36% crit is insane) would feel kind of weird because then the others would need a revisit too.

[MrMako183]

8 minutes ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

The nature of each vandal/wraith was to provide different stats compared to the main weapon.
Mixing those stats (also 36% crit is insane) would feel kind of weird because then the others would need a revisit too.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Strun
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Strun_Wraith

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Latron
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Latron_Prime
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Latron_Wraith

 

No, vandel/wraiths are not supposed to be different stat lines, they are supposed to be direct upgrades.

Such as the Strun to Strun wraith.

And the Latron (albeit still a garbo weapon) Both the wraith and prime are direct upgrades, but are side grades to each other. Much like the braton series of weapons. I would like to see where, any upgrade variant was a sidegrade of it's predecessor 

Edited March 13, 2019 by MrMako183
Forgot to add something

[Deadoon]

B

59 minutes ago, MrMako183 said:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Strun
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Strun_Wraith

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Latron
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Latron_Prime
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Latron_Wraith

 

No, vandel/wraiths are not supposed to be different stat lines, they are supposed to be direct upgrades.

Such as the Strun to Strun wraith.

And the Latron (albeit still a garbo weapon) Both the wraith and prime are direct upgrades, but are side grades to each other. Much like the braton series of weapons. I would like to see where, any upgrade variant was a sidegrade of it's predecessor 

Also note that every other one of those is a higher MR weapon, and MR is now the new balance point for how powerful weapon's stats are. The only exception is the prova because melee haven't gone through the full rework yet. The Opticor vandal is the same MR.

Oh, and the braton vandal, the original vandal, had half the rate of fire of the original.

[MrMako183]

6 minutes ago, Deadoon said:

B

Also note that every other one of those is a higher MR weapon, and MR is now the new balance point for how powerful weapon's stats are. The only exception is the prova because melee haven't gone through the full rework yet. The Opticor vandal is the same MR.

Oh, and the braton vandal, the original vandal, had half the rate of fire of the original.

The braton vandel then, and now is still better then the original braton. And on the note of mr being the balance point (This is true), then the latron series should be mr 1. and the opticor vandel is still worse then then the original variant, specially since the ferrox occupies that space of a fast beam launcher

 

[MrMako183]

13 minutes ago, Deadoon said:

B

Also note that every other one of those is a higher MR weapon, and MR is now the new balance point for how powerful weapon's stats are. The only exception is the prova because melee haven't gone through the full rework yet. The Opticor vandal is the same MR.

Oh, and the braton vandal, the original vandal, had half the rate of fire of the original.

And also, the P vandal is still a strict upgrade

[Deadoon]

1 minute ago, MrMako183 said:

The braton vandel then, and now is still better then the original braton. And on the note of mr being the balance point (This is true), then the latron series should be mr 1. and the opticor vandel is still worse then then the original variant, specially since the ferrox occupies that space of a fast beam launcher

 

Ferrox is a precision weapon with high crit low status(if built for main fire, throwing has no multishot and no crit, so it is completely different build) with 350 damage, the Vandal is a 600(400 main+200 Splash, which overlap on eachother) wide beam weapon with decent explosion for spreading damage. Both have their roles, the ferrox has a higher skill ceiling for use due to it will do less damage if you cannot consistently get those crit headshot mults.

 

1 minute ago, MrMako183 said:

And also, the P vandal is still a strict upgrade

Which I mentioned, directly. Did you even read what I said?

[Nox_Terminus]

6 minutes ago, Deadoon said:

B

Also note that every other one of those is a higher MR weapon, and MR is now the new balance point for how powerful weapon's stats are. The only exception is the prova because melee haven't gone through the full rework yet. The Opticor vandal is the same MR.

Oh, and the braton vandal, the original vandal, had half the rate of fire of the original.

DE have stated that they want MR to be a balancing point this is true. However if you look into the damage outputs of weapons even after the balance pass, you'll see that many of them do not perform at a level which justifies their current MR requirement. The Opticor being one of the most notably over-MR'd weapons in the game.

Also in the case of the Prova Vandal, which also share's its MR rank with its original, its a stronger weapon in every aspect. However melee has yet to have its balance pass so I expect this to change. This does not mean that there should not be further balance passes for firearms, as the last pass missed several weapons, and the introduction of kitguns at their current power level makes the balancing decision on others weapons made worse or left to atrophy in the balance pass all the more questionable.

In this case the Opticor Vandal is not the same type of weapon as the original, does it have a higher DPS? Certainly, but the people who like the original have been waiting years for an upgrade, not a side-grade. Would you really tell those people to wait several more years to get a better version of the weapon they like? Or would you rather everyone gets the thing they want out of the current one?

In my opinion the Opticor would fit neatly into the MR power 'scale' at rank 8-10. With MR 10 being very generous as its crit chance is a complete coin toss. Now of course you could bring up 'rivens' but I'll be quick to remind you that DE have stated themselves that warframe content will not be balanced for rivens, rivens are meant to add more variety to the gameplay as-is, not act as a band-aid to fix everything or as an excuse for poorly balanced weapon stats.

1 hour ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

The nature of each vandal/wraith was to provide different stats compared to the main weapon.
Mixing those stats (also 36% crit is insane) would feel kind of weird because then the others would need a revisit too.

36% Crit is not insane at all.

• 20% Crit +150% = 50% Crit, 1-1 coin toss [1/2]
• 24% Crit +150% = 60% Crit, 6-4 coin toss [3/5]
• 28% Crit +150% = 70% Crit, 7-3 coin toss [7/10]
• 32% Crit +150% = 80% Crit, 8-2 coin toss [8/10]
• 36% Crit +150% = 90% Crit, 9-1 coin toss [9/10]

I dont think I need to remind you that most charge based weapons (i.e. bows) have higher crit stats when fully charged. For example

Charged Critical Chance Values

• MK1-Paris, Paris: 30%
• Cernos Prime, Rakta Cernos: 35%
• Cernos: 36%
• Paris Prime: 45%
• Dread, Lenz: 50%

Sniper Rifle Critical Chances

• Vulkar, Vulkar Wraith: 20%
• Vectis: 25%
• Snipetron Vandal: 28%
• Rubico, Snipetron, Vectis Prime: 30%
• Rubico Prime: 38%
• Lanka: 25% (+20-50% depending on zoom, 45-75%)

Considering the AoE of the Opticor has rapid falloff within its radius, toting it as an 'AoE' weapon is rather disingenuous. Its primarily a pin-point high damage weapon. Similar to Bows and Sniper Rifles in that regard. Mind you even if this alt-fire were added it would still be rightfully outpaced by purpose-built pin-point weapons like sniper rifles, but would offer the massive single-shot damage people who liked the original were looking for in a variant. So what's the problem here?

[Deadoon]

54 minutes ago, Nox_Terminus said:

DE have stated that they want MR to be a balancing point this is true. However if you look into the damage outputs of weapons even after the balance pass, you'll see that many of them do not perform at a level which justifies their current MR requirement. The Opticor being one of the most notably over-MR'd weapons in the game.

Also in the case of the Prova Vandal, which also share's its MR rank with its original, its a stronger weapon in every aspect. However melee has yet to have its balance pass so I expect this to change. This does not mean that there should not be further balance passes for firearms, as the last pass missed several weapons, and the introduction of kitguns at their current power level makes the balancing decision on others weapons made worse or left to atrophy in the balance pass all the more questionable.

In this case the Opticor Vandal is not the same type of weapon as the original, does it have a higher DPS? Certainly, but the people who like the original have been waiting years for an upgrade, not a side-grade. Would you really tell those people to wait several more years to get a better version of the weapon they like? Or would you rather everyone gets the thing they want out of the current one?

In my opinion the Opticor would fit neatly into the MR power 'scale' at rank 8-10. With MR 10 being very generous as its crit chance is a complete coin toss. Now of course you could bring up 'rivens' but I'll be quick to remind you that DE have stated themselves that warframe content will not be balanced for rivens, rivens are meant to add more variety to the gameplay as-is, not act as a band-aid to fix everything or as an excuse for poorly balanced weapon stats.

The Opticor is very powerful, it actually is quite fitting in it's position as a top tier. It is literally the most powerful rifle in the game, and has stats that dwarf all but the most specialized single target weapons. It is unwieldy, and that is the cost of such power and specialization.

Your vandal idea makes the vandal a flat upgrade, it grants it quick fire weak shots and absurdly powerful main blasts.

 

Also your idea that critical chance isn't insane is telling you are missing how powerful those criticals are and how much they bounce of eachother at a fundamental level. The opticor was already a meta powerful weapon and a boss killer for some, this would push it so far beyond it would be obscene.

Every normal(noriven) crit build will have 4 mods, Serration, split chamber, vital sense, point strike. Since we want high power, maximising the last few slot's power is important. Primed cryo rounds is a powerful mod by itself, so it should be there for optimal builds. 3 Slots remain. This is where things get messy. 90% elemental only grants a power boost of 33% for it's mod slot. Heavy Caliber gives a good 62% boost. Vigilante sounds good too more multishot, but it only grants 31% boost, and provides consistency over a 90%. Vile acceleration grants 90% greater refire rate at the cost of 6% total damage, pretty good. Hunter munitions is good, but it will be somewhat inconsistent and doesn't help with the alpha strike.Conditionals like Argon scope or bladed rounds might be nice but those are derived from the crit stats.

So let's go with the top of those Heavy caliber, Vigilante(for consistency's sake, don't want any half damage hits) and primed cryo, and see how much of a boost the conditionalswork on each gun. Since multishot, elemental, and base damage amp are the same for all of these, those can be ignored, as the multipliers are the same. With a CC of 2.5* base and CD of 2.2. Argon scope will grant you a CC of 3.85 and Bladed a CD of 3.4. Vile with this build grants a loss of 3.5% and a bonus of 83% dps on every gun but that is more shots.

Opticor 50% CC/ 5.5 CD basic. Crits give an average +225% damage amp. With argon active: 347% amp, DPS increase 37%   With Bladed active: 375% increase of 46%

Vandal 60% CC/ 5.72 CD basic. Crits give an average +283% damage amp. Argon 436% amp, DPS of 40%. Bladed: 470% amp, DPS of 48%.

Not too different right? Here's your example:

Proposed 90% CC/ 6.6 CD Basic. Crits give an average +504% damage amp. Argon: 776% amp, DPS of 45%. Bladed: 828% Amp, Dps of 53%.

The proposed stats are quite absurd. The damage might be only 90%, the Cost might be twice as much but with 6x damage you are doing almost the same as the orignal opticor PER AMMO with less charge time and more consistency. With any form of higher amplification, the idea is destroyed further. Your proposal is basically a couple Opticor strapped to one another and then given a linked trigger.

 

PS: this is why the soma was once among the best rifles, despite it having 1/3-1/4 the base damage of other good ones.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Deadoon
Added ps

[BlachWolf]

To ne honets There is really no need for an alt fire, it would be much better if they just buffed the CC to 28% (so that it alteast reaches 70% CC with only point strike) or increase its base dmg by +100. One other thing they could do is shift its value from puncture to slash, so that its higher SC would actually be usefull.

[Test-995]

 

58 minutes ago, Deadoon said:

The Opticor is very powerful, it actually is quite fitting in it's position as a top tier. It is literally the most powerful rifle in the game, and has stats that dwarf all but the most specialized single target weapons. It is unwieldy, and that is the cost of such power and specialization.

Your vandal idea makes the vandal a flat upgrade, it grants it quick fire weak shots and absurdly powerful main blasts.

 

Also your idea that critical chance isn't insane is telling you are missing how powerful those criticals are and how much they bounce of eachother at a fundamental level. The opticor was already a meta powerful weapon and a boss killer for some, this would push it so far beyond it would be obscene.

Every normal(noriven) crit build will have 4 mods, Serration, split chamber, vital sense, point strike. Since we want high power, maximising the last few slot's power is important. Primed cryo rounds is a powerful mod by itself, so it should be there for optimal builds. 3 Slots remain. This is where things get messy. 90% elemental only grants a power boost of 33% for it's mod slot. Heavy Caliber gives a good 62% boost. Vigilante sounds good too more multishot, but it only grants 31% boost, and provides consistency over a 90%. Vile acceleration grants 90% greater refire rate at the cost of 6% total damage, pretty good. Hunter munitions is good, but it will be somewhat inconsistent and doesn't help with the alpha strike.Conditionals like Argon scope or bladed rounds might be nice but those are derived from the crit stats.

So let's go with the top of those Heavy caliber, Vigilante(for consistency's sake, don't want any half damage hits) and primed cryo, and see how much of a boost the conditionalswork on each gun. Since multishot, elemental, and base damage amp are the same for all of these, those can be ignored, as the multipliers are the same. With a CC of 2.5* base and CD of 2.2. Argon scope will grant you a CC of 3.85 and Bladed a CD of 3.4. Vile with this build grants a loss of 3.5% and a bonus of 83% dps on every gun but that is more shots.

Opticor 50% CC/ 5.5 CD basic. Crits give an average +225% damage amp. With argon active: 347% amp, DPS increase 37%   With Bladed active: 375% increase of 46%

Vandal 60% CC/ 5.72 CD basic. Crits give an average +283% damage amp. Argon 436% amp, DPS of 40%. Bladed: 470% amp, DPS of 48%.

Not too different right? Here's your example:

Proposed 90% CC/ 6.6 CD Basic. Crits give an average +504% damage amp. Argon: 776% amp, DPS of 45%. Bladed: 828% Amp, Dps of 53%.

The proposed stats are quite absurd. The damage might be only 90%, the Cost might be twice as much but with 6x damage you are doing almost the same as the orignal opticor PER AMMO with less charge time and more consistency. With any form of higher amplification, the idea is destroyed further. Your proposal is basically a couple Opticor strapped to one another and then given a linked trigger.

 

PS: this is why the soma was once among the best rifles, despite it having 1/3-1/4 the base damage of other good ones.

Well, you are building 30%SC/20%SC weapons for full crit.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Test-995

[Deadoon]

Just now, Test-995 said:

"Weapons are balanced around MR" Those weapons aren't balanced around weapons of same MR though.

Well, you are building 30%SC/20%SC weapons for full crit.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/918482-shrine-of-the-eidolon-update-22120/

Quote

We are revisiting all weapons and adjusting their stats to fit into some Mastery Rank grouping guidelines based on DPS and Crit/Status split total. With this in mind, we are buffing a lot of the weapons you know and love!

Example: Tiberon

It's damage places it in MR 10-12 but it's crit and stat split is way too low. MR, status and critical chance is increased to match it's new MR. Increasing status and critical boosts its damage so its reduced down to fit back into the MR group guidelines its original stats dictated

Tiberon used to do 60/shot damage with negligible crit/status it was reasonably powerful at the time, and with the update more so as well as the tiberon prime pushing it further.

Yeah, I'm building weapons with low refire and high crit stats for full crit, the damage amplification is that good, the status procs might be nice, but even those get amplified by the crit damage unless they are flat stacking like corrosive, and there are much better weapons for those.

[Test-995]

1 minute ago, Deadoon said:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/918482-shrine-of-the-eidolon-update-22120/

Well, wut. no one really uses opticor to eidolons. you should know those shots won't hit limbs reliably...

Edited March 13, 2019 by Test-995

[Deadoon]

Just now, Test-995 said:

Well, wut. no one really uses opticor to eidolons. you should know those shots won't hit limbs reliably...

What? That was the gun balance update which introduced the MR tier system, I was quoting that page.

[Test-995]

15 minutes ago, Deadoon said:

What? That was the gun balance update which introduced the MR tier system, I was quoting that page.

Oh, nvm. i thought that you quote those to say "SC is pointless against eidolons".

What i meant to say with "it's not balanced against weapons of same MR" is, like, SC weapons are basically S#&$, and AoE weapons are mostly superior.

(Edit; it's just another "THEY ARE BAD AT BALANCING" thing.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Test-995

[DrBorris]

7 hours ago, BlachWolf said:

To ne honets There is really no need for an alt fire, it would be much better if they just buffed the CC to 28% (so that it alteast reaches 70% CC with only point strike) or increase its base dmg by +100. One other thing they could do is shift its value from puncture to slash, so that its higher SC would actually be usefull.

But, like, that's not really the point. Opticor Vandal is fine in a vacuum, It is a side-grade to Ferrox and... well, that's the real problem here. Opticor Vandal is more of a Ferrox side-grade than an Opticor variant. People never used Opticor for being practical, they used it because it packed a hellish punch. Those who enjoyed Opticor for what it was would have loved to have a variant that at least gave it more consistency, instead we got a Ferrox.

(Also, to all those people that are like "I like Opticor now because of the Vandal!"... you do know that Ferrox has existed for some time now and is basically the same thing, right?)

 

This is not the first time something like this happened. When Vectis Prime was released there was a very similar outcry about how DE took away the defining trait of Vectis (having a single bullet in the chamber). So, as a direct response, DE created a new corrupted mod, Depleted Reload, exclusively for Vectis Prime that cut the mag size down to one and increased the reload speed. This response kind of sucked because using that mod was pretty much a direct downgrade in DPS to the base, so hopefully we don't get a new Opticor augment that just makes the weapon worse.

 

Opticor is not getting a new variant anytime soon, if ever, and for the only Opticor variant to completely miss the point of why people liked Opticor in the first place would be much sad.

inb4 Prisma Opticor.

[BlachWolf]

24 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

But, like, that's not really the point. Opticor Vandal is fine in a vacuum, It is a side-grade to Ferrox and... well, that's the real problem here. Opticor Vandal is more of a Ferrox side-grade than an Opticor variant. People never used Opticor for being practical, they used it because it packed a hellish punch. Those who enjoyed Opticor for what it was would have loved to have a variant that at least gave it more consistency, instead we got a Ferrox.

(Also, to all those people that are like "I like Opticor now because of the Vandal!"... you do know that Ferrox has existed for some time now and is basically the same thing, right?)

Yeah the opticor came out in 2014, it was the first powerfull weapon I ever build and it carried me through a lot of stuff. But when it came to high level content it fell hard behind. The only problem I had with it was the 2s (2.5s when it came out) charge rate, making it unusable for me without fire rate mods. The vandal fixes this issue, while adding 40% more dps with the right build (and my riven with 220% CC 165% CD -29% mag size which I also use on my normal opticor). Also it doesnt handle like the ferrox at all, a weapon I also enjoy. The ferrox in total deals less dmg and its projectile also feels a lot different to the beam of the opticor. The ferrox is more like a sniper / a lanka without projectile travel time, for me atleast

 

24 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

This is not the first time something like this happened. When Vectis Prime was released there was a very similar outcry about how DE took away the defining trait of Vectis (having a single bullet in the chamber). So, as a direct response, DE created a new corrupted mod, Depleted Reload, exclusively for Vectis Prime that cut the mag size down to one and increased the reload speed. This response kind of sucked because using that mod was pretty much a direct downgrade in DPS to the base, so hopefully we don't get a new Opticor augment that just makes the weapon worse.

 

Opticor is not getting a new variant anytime soon, if ever, and for the only Opticor variant to completely miss the point of why people liked Opticor in the first place would be much sad.

inb4 Prisma Opticor.

I would rather as said, they buff its CC to 28% giving it a more consistant dmg output. Another solution would be to increase its base dmg by +100 dmg points. But even then the opticor vandal pushes around 40% more dps when compared to the normal one. While the normal one can indead reach 200k (with my riven) per shot with a 2s charge time, the vandal version pushes 110k but with a 0.6s charge time, thus giving you around 330k dmg for the same amount of time spend on the normal opticor.

I do understand that people are unhappy with the changes, so was a when I saw the stats, though after putting 6 formas into it I realized that it was a lot better, mostly because it was a lot more usable.

[Kerberos-3]

Honestly, the only way I can think of to make everyone happy at this point is to rework Opticor Vandal into a direct upgrade of what Opticor already does, and introduce Prisma Opticor with Opticor V's current stat next time Baro shows up. Everyone get what they want, and we can all stop fighting.

[Deadoon]

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

But, like, that's not really the point. Opticor Vandal is fine in a vacuum, It is a side-grade to Ferrox and... well, that's the real problem here. Opticor Vandal is more of a Ferrox side-grade than an Opticor variant. People never used Opticor for being practical, they used it because it packed a hellish punch. Those who enjoyed Opticor for what it was would have loved to have a variant that at least gave it more consistency, instead we got a Ferrox.

(Also, to all those people that are like "I like Opticor now because of the Vandal!"... you do know that Ferrox has existed for some time now and is basically the same thing, right?)

 

Ferrox is a weapon of precision, the vandal is a weapon of brute force. The ferrox will do more damage than the vandal if you can get headshots constantly and it does it's damage in a pinpoint precise beam. The vandal has a higher degree of consistency but less reward for precision, it has a very wide beam allowing for forgiving shots, but will often not hit the head unless shot over the target and generates an aoe that deals half the damage of the main beam on impact. 

They seem similar at first, but their playstyle and how/where they deal their damage is vastly different. Ferrox deals 350 damage, the vandal 400+200.

[Nox_Terminus]

On 2019-03-13 at 7:37 AM, Kerberos-3 said:

Honestly, the only way I can think of to make everyone happy at this point is to rework Opticor Vandal into a direct upgrade of what Opticor already does, and introduce Prisma Opticor with Opticor V's current stat next time Baro shows up. Everyone get what they want, and we can all stop fighting.

That's not likely. Also a Prisma Opticor would probably be years off.

To me it seems really odd that people would argue against giving people who loved the original Opticor what they want, without taking away the shiny new toy everyone else seems to like. Especially since the base Opticor is at the wrong MR level in the first place. Its capabilities place it at MR 8-10 at best.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Nox_Terminus

[(XBOX)RPColten]

What's preventing players from just using the normal Opticor if they want that 'big laser' feeling? It's still there and it's still very powerful for all the games content.

[Nox_Terminus]

39 minutes ago, (XB1)RPColten said:

What's preventing players from just using the normal Opticor if they want that 'big laser' feeling? It's still there and it's still very powerful for all the games content.

It has inconsistent crit and got shoved up to MR 14 in the last balance pass when its stats place it at MR 8-10 at most. So by the time most people get their hands on it they've already gotten a slew of sniper rifles and a very particular bow called the Lenz.

The people who liked the Opticor as it was have been waiting for a Variant that made it better at what it did. Dealing massive single-shot damage to targets, as the issue with the original is that its single-shot potential is marred by a coin-flip crit chance, and the crutch that is hunter munitions.

Thus the upgrade path would logically be pretty simple, improved crit consistency and slightly faster charge time. What I'd like to know is why people have an issue with a suggestion that literally would not take anything away from either side of the argument?

People who like the Opticor Vandal as-is can mod for the normal fire, and people who liked the original could mod for the alt-fire. In a rare occurrence, everyone would actually win.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Nox_Terminus

[XaoGarrent]

On 2019-03-13 at 2:06 AM, Deadoon said:

B

Also note that every other one of those is a higher MR weapon, and MR is now the new balance point for how powerful weapon's stats are. The only exception is the prova because melee haven't gone through the full rework yet. The Opticor vandal is the same MR.

Oh, and the braton vandal, the original vandal, had half the rate of fire of the original.

The Opticor Vandal already has higher stats, if you crunch the numbers. The increased crit on the secondary fire does seem overtuned, but ultimately it's going to end up with higher stats than the regular Opitcor either way.

It's hard for people to make pinpoint accurate suggestions like this without knowing what the dev's MR "budget" formula is.

 

On 2019-03-13 at 1:37 PM, Kerberos-3 said:

Honestly, the only way I can think of to make everyone happy at this point is to rework Opticor Vandal into a direct upgrade of what Opticor already does, and introduce Prisma Opticor with Opticor V's current stat next time Baro shows up. Everyone get what they want, and we can all stop fighting.

Honestly, they should just make a new line for stuff like this. Call it the "Opticor Turbo" or something along those lines. If they're going to start making proper sidegrades to weapons, that's fine, they should just give the modified weapon lines their own unique names based off what they do differently.

[ZetaGallade]

Perhaps, they could increase the charge time, and buff the completely charged shot to the same base damage as the original, and then keep the current damage and charge time the partially charged shot? That way, the people who like the opticor vandal as it is still have it, while the people who want it to feel like the original opticor also have what they want.

[Deadoon]

50 minutes ago, Nox_Terminus said:

Thus the upgrade path would logically be pretty simple, improved crit consistency and slightly faster charge time. What I'd like to know is why people have an issue with a suggestion that literally would not take anything away from either side of the argument?

People who like the Opticor Vandal as-is can mod for the normal fire, and people who liked the original could mod for the alt-fire. In a rare occurrence, everyone would actually win.

Two things;

1) the upgrade you have is not a minor one, it is an utterly massive one as I demonstrated above.

2) The Mod profiling would be exactly the same, you'd have a gun that has an anemic(in comparison) primary fire and a supercharged bfg for a secondary. Without the final mod and more so with it(probably vile acceleration for a no riven build) the standard opticor would be outpaced by such a huge margin it would be insane.

The build style I put above gives the same base multipliers for all the base damage(4.3 base, 2.5 from multi, and  2.65 from elemental totaling~28.5* damage) thus those can be canceled out because the multiplier is the same. From crits alone without the effects of that base multiplier and final mod(which I had posted the effect of already):

The Opticor would do 3250 + 1300 or 4550 damage per shot average. 2 second charge time.  2275 dps before base damage multipliers or shared speed upgrades.

The Opticor vandal is 1532 + 766 or 2298 damage per shot average, or 51% damage  .6 second charge time 3830 dps before shared components.

Proposed secondary 5436 + 2718 or 8154 damage per shot average or 179% damage 1.5 second charge time 5436 dps before shared components.

To get the real dps you would need to multiply those by roughly 28.5 for the damage per shot and 1.83 for the dps, since they are shared they don't actually matter as the results are the same regardless. Proposal is 90% effeciency of original due to double ammo consumption, but has 239% the dps, while the vandal with this build as it is is 50% ammo efficient and 70% higher dps.

That isn't consistency. That's a flat buff and more with that proposal.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Deadoon