NIGHTWAVE is a failure

[Tengarnos]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Zilchy:

Ok being honest and matter of fact you, no sarcasm. What do you need the wolf credits for? Remember cosmetics are purely fashion and nice to have, they don't prevent progression. You say you've played 5 years. Do you remember how rare Nitain was on release? When we had to get it to research Wukong in the dojo? We got maybe 1 alert every day and needed 11 for Wukong. Now with Nightwave, you can buy 5 for 15 credits... so for the first wold credits you get you can have 15 nitain... that's heaps.

As for auras and potatos. During that 40 wave defense I did a fissure and cracked rads. How much plat you reckon I could get from 8 radiant relics? Enough for an aura mod and a potato? Yeh easily, with change.

The problem with alerts is it breeds laziness, people just want taxis and then they want you to carry the mission as well. Nightwave makes them earn it or suck it, I'm fine with this. Just wait for the Arbitration elite weekly, then everybody will s#&t the bed cos they haven't bothered doing each node.

I never consisted the fashion crap. Well while it was rare I have/had a very active clan. Pretty fast the Nitian while from a personal matter I am always pretty surprised how fast they get new stuff (Mostly I have no real luck with rare drops). Ok at current gamestate not this much anymore.
I see it at some newer players which wanted direct help and carry to get the NW stuff done so they can get Creds for Nitain for their frames to build. You say alerts breeds laziness. While you are right that some things like sortie, profittaker couldnt be done without certain progression or standing, you still can carry people so they get the credits. I also know some which have their (understandable) reasons not to trade. For making rads and sell them for plat you need 3 things. Relics to rad, not needing the Stuff yourself, sometimes "luck" (there is no real luck in maths and computers cause nothing is really random but thats another topic). For us its easy. There isnt much left we need. We can sell our prime junk for people wanting it for ducats or selling vaulted and thos expensive things.

Well I agree to your viewing on the elite thing that newbies should expect to do them, I saythe overall "problematic" is the same. NW rubs itself in your face like its obligated to do. Together with the bad new user experience and bad/hard to find explainations of things (I got them from Beta players not from the game.) makes it worse imo.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

19 minutes ago, Tengarnos said:

I never consisted the fashion crap. Well while it was rare I have/had a very active clan. Pretty fast the Nitian while from a personal matter I am always pretty surprised how fast they get new stuff (Mostly I have no real luck with rare drops). Ok at current gamestate not this much anymore.
I see it at some newer players which wanted direct help and carry to get the NW stuff done so they can get Creds for Nitain for their frames to build. You say alerts breeds laziness. While you are right that some things like sortie, profittaker couldnt be done without certain progression or standing, you still can carry people so they get the credits. I also know some which have their (understandable) reasons not to trade. For making rads and sell them for plat you need 3 things. Relics to rad, not needing the Stuff yourself, sometimes "luck" (there is no real luck in maths and computers cause nothing is really random but thats another topic). For us its easy. There isnt much left we need. We can sell our prime junk for people wanting it for ducats or selling vaulted and thos expensive things.

Well I agree to your viewing on the elite thing that newbies should expect to do them, I saythe overall "problematic" is the same. NW rubs itself in your face like its obligated to do. Together with the bad new user experience and bad/hard to find explainations of things (I got them from Beta players not from the game.) makes it worse imo.

Rad relics are available from ESO and there's always a Saryn farming focus, new players can just take a weapon to level and a rhino buff or EV buff for the Saryn so they're not leeching.  Or just run fissures without relic to get traces.

I hate ingame market, tell them to sell junk there then just use wf market to buy without all the bs.

[Tengarnos]

Gerade eben schrieb Zilchy:

Rad relics are available from ESO and there's always a Saryn farming focus, new players can just take a weapon to level and a rhino buff or EV buff for the Saryn so they're not leeching.  Or just run fissures without relic to get traces.

I hate ingame market, tell them to sell junk there then just use wf market to buy without all the bs.

The thing is you need to know that. Thats something new players mostly dont do. Would you know about the prices without the market? Would know it is there without someone telling you? Plus the real question, will the supply be this big as you are used to it, now with NW? CP is already rising prices there is no 10 plat for it anymore. And with empying stock it will most likely happen to other Auras till they cost the same as Maiming. Sure atm its no real big deal. Like you said. If you know about it.

(And in terms of market I meant the wf market. For me its trade chat ingame.)

[SenorClipClop]

16 hours ago, Test-995 said:

instead you have to do some specific things that you completely hate and that is definitely how game should be played.

Whether or not you hate the missions you play is up to you. Regardless, Nightwave didn't make "obligatory repetition for rewards" a new thing. Most Warframes are only got by doing the same boss fight multiple times. Even old Alerts obligated you to play a random low-level mission for Nitain, etc.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

4 minutes ago, Tengarnos said:

The thing is you need to know that. Thats something new players mostly dont do. Would you know about the prices without the market? Would know it is there without someone telling you? Plus the real question, will the supply be this big as you are used to it, now with NW? CP is already rising prices there is no 10 plat for it anymore. And with empying stock it will most likely happen to other Auras till they cost the same as Maiming. Sure atm its no real big deal. Like you said. If you know about it.

(And in terms of market I meant the wf market. For me its trade chat ingame.)

You're right you do. That's where you and many other experienced clan members come in, helping younger clan members get to grips with the game. Or they could just google such things. Both work. Pretty sure many clan members also have aura mods to give away to newer members, I know I have.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Zilchy

[Marvelous_A]

It takes an uneducated person to say it's a good change. 100x the effort for mostly the same reward? Duh..simple maths.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Marvelous_A

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

It takes an uneducated person to say it's a good change. 100x the effort for mostly the same reward? Duh..simple maths.

Not gonna argue much with a fellow alliance member but we do get mostly the same reward PLUS exclusive items.

[Marvelous_A]

1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Clearly you do not, 

Reactors, catalysts can still be obtained from invasions, Nitain can be acquired from ghoul bounties and missions from Lua and kuva fortress. 

Aura mods can be traded for if you dislike it so much.

Cosmetics are not in any way needed in the first place, just an add on. 

It took me months to get my first vauban, I could get this one in just 2 weeks. 

So once again not forced. 

And here we go with sidelining the topic and talking about things not part of the discussion again. 

Stick to the point Buddy. Or take it up in a different thread or start one yourself. 

The problem is not the nightwave. 

The problem is :

Players that want rewards for little to no effort, 

Have an aversion to change, 

And are unwilling to make friends. 

 

Could the challenges use some polishing? Sure, but is nightwave itself a bad concept? No. 

So what you used to get with little effort now requires you to put more effort and now it's suddenly a good change?

Do you ask your boss for a pay cut too coz you enjoying working more for the same reward? 

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

2 hours ago, Tengarnos said:

Yeah if you dont get what people want to say you maybe should just stay out.
Where is nightwave making the game in any form harder? Its just limiting access to things which were given long time ago. (I am in this game for 5 years btw)

 

 

Yeah it offers rewards, one if it is wolf creds with which you can buy things which you could get without nightwave by alerts, which are gone cause of nightwave. Its like the raids were gone cause of Eidolons. Yes they give you the rewards, but it took out something more fun an rewarding in exchange. You dont get that I just say what many people think.
You think its not forcing? Ok so tell me, as a new player, where to get the auras, if I dont do nightwave? Were to get the alert locked weapons I might find interessting as a new player (I am MR 25 near 26 btw so it not like I am caring mucht about how successfull it is or not. But I look at it from a new playes view plus sort of business and in this  case it seems bad. Again new player  could get frustrated, talk bad about the game, repelling potential paying customers, this avoid profit. And Warframe is already seen as a game with the worst new player experience)

Not the worst, but a poor new player experience yes.

As a new player, if you wanted Nitain extract or auras you had to check the alert tab every hour. It could be weeks before the aura you even wanted showed up. 

Now, you have a clearly defined path to obtaining them. Even if you refuse nightwave and hate it and don’t participate in any of the challenges, you will still earn night wave standing from playing the game.

Nightwave makes it easier for new players to get nitain and auras, because the path isn’t gated behind RNG. It’s a clearly defined set of challenges you can do, sometimes without even knowing you’re doing them.

The only reason it’s difficult for new players is because they read sensationalised crap on the forums and think they need to be angry about it.

The only reason to be mad about this is because you want to.

 

The only thing we’ve lost is hourly alerts for 80 endo.

Also, I really don’t care what your MR is.

Edited March 27, 2019 by (PS4)Mono-Pop

[Test-995]

54 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Rad relics are available from ESO and there's always a Saryn farming focus, new players can just take a weapon to level and a rhino buff or EV buff for the Saryn so they're not leeching.  Or just run fissures without relic to get traces.

I hate ingame market, tell them to sell junk there then just use wf market to buy without all the bs.

And leaves on wave 3 because their weapon is maxed, still not leeching because they did their job and they have rights to freely leaves endless missions on anytime they want to.

 

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

Not the worst, but a poor new player experience yes.

As a new player, if you wanted Nitain extract or auras you had to check the alert tab every hour. It could be weeks before the aura you even wanted showed up. 

Now, you have a clearly defined path to obtaining them. Even if you refuse nightwave and hate it and don’t participate in any of the challenges, you will still earn night wave standing from playing the game.

Nightwave makes it easier for new players to get nitain and auras, because the path isn’t gated behind RNG. It’s a clearly defined set of challenges you can do, sometimes without even knowing you’re doing them.

The only reason it’s difficult for new players is because they read sensationalised crap on the forums and think they need to be angry about it.

The only reason to be mad about this is because you want to.

 

The only thing we’ve lost is hourly alerts for 80 endo.

Also, I really don’t care what your MR is.

at least auras are gated behind RNG as well, cheapest price for siphon/corrosive is 35pt for now.

for nitains, i agree with you.

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Test-995

[HexOmega111x]

il y a 29 minutes, Marvelous_A a dit :

So what you used to get with little effort now requires you to put more effort and now it's suddenly a good change?

If you only want to see the bad side of it, yes. This is what makes it a bad change. 

There are many advantages for new players. And it would be more useful to ear what a new player, who never knew alerts, think about it than the usual anti nightwaves troops. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

12 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

And leaves on wave 3 because their weapon is maxed, still not leeching because they did their job and they have rights to freely leaves endless missions on anytime they want to.

 

at least auras are gated behind RNG as well, cheapest price for siphon/corrosive is 35pt for now.

for nitains, i agree with you.

 

If they leave on wave 3 I doubt a Saryn farming focus would even care. Solo  to wave 8 is not hard.

Well all the more reason to give them out to clan members then. But even 35p is not hard to come by. There are so many things to sell in this game it's just a caseof choosing a goal and working towards it, then focusing on another goal etc.

[(PSN)thecoolman575]

46 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

So what you used to get with little effort now requires you to put more effort and now it's suddenly a good change?

I bet there are players who would say yes to that honestly but it’s more than that to me I’d rather have to put more effort and get consistant rewards than have to rely on rng and have the game hand it to me

I don’t know about all the other items but it took me 2 months to get the mag guass helment and I got the new baruuk helmet on the 4th week so that was an improvement but now the speed of getting nitain got nerfed hard

But honestly all these nightwave threads are making me think if DE was spoiling us with the alert rewards because yeah there was no effort needed at all and that’s how it was for 6 years and now suddenly we have to actually spend time for the same rewards or is the new grind just really unneccessary

Edited March 27, 2019 by (PS4)thecoolman575

[Test-995]

Just now, Zilchy said:

If they leave on wave 3 I doubt a Saryn farming focus would even care. Solo  to wave 8 is not hard.

Well all the more reason to give them out to clan members then. But even 35p is not hard to come by. There are so many things to sell in this game it's just a caseof choosing a goal and working towards it, then focusing on another goal etc.

I care, but since this is completely my fault("just do recruit" and that is 100% valid) i wrote like that.

I know 35pt is not hard, but still i thought this price increase is stupid, especially when cred offering has potatoes for 75creds, and auras for  20creds.

[Marvelous_A]

9 minutes ago, HexOmega111x said:

If you only want to see the bad side of it, yes. This is what makes it a bad change. 

There are many advantages for new players. And it would be more useful to ear what a new player, who never knew alerts, think about it than the usual anti nightwaves troops. 

No? They will be too busy redeeming the auras, blueprints and supposedly free helmets which were used to be handed out free to old players with massive 50 wolf creds every week.

Only vets will have the time for the new exclusive shiny rewards.

Too bad I'm not going to experience all the hard work coz I've got almost everything it offers with little effort.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Marvelous_A

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, Test-995 said:

I care, but since this is completely my fault("just do recruit" and that is 100% valid) i wrote like that.

I know 35pt is not hard, but still i thought this price increase is stupid, especially when cred offering has potatoes for 75creds, and auras for  20creds.

Yeh I agree the price hike is dumb, supply and demand I guess . Again, all the more reason to give them out to clan members I reckon. And realistically they only need 3 or so aura mods, the rest are meh and can be gotten over time.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Too bad I'm not going to experience all the hard work coz I've got almost everything it offers with little effort.

But if you were new, would that make you a better or worse player? Lazy, carried and taxi'd through content vs had to earn it, had to learn how to do things in the game.

[Marvelous_A]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)thecoolman575 said:

I bet there are players who would say yes to that honestly but it’s more than that to me I’d rather have to put more effort and get consistant rewards than have to rely on rng and have the game hand it to me

I don’t know about all the other items but it took me 2 months to get the mag guass helment and I got the new baruuk helmet on the 4th week so that was an improvement but now the speed of getting nitain got nerfed hard

But honestly all these nightwave threads are making me think if DE was spoiling us with the alert rewards because yeah there was no effort needed at all and that’s how it was for 6 years and now suddenly we have to actually spend time for the same rewards

You know what? It got me 2 years to finally get my mag gauss helmet. But it only took me 1 year to get almost every other.

Under the new system there is less RNG yes...it's just that you gonna take 3 years to redeem all helmets with the speed of 1 every week. Given, you finish all challenges and never redeem any other things including auras and blueprints.

Is it an improvement? Nope...hardly. As a player, can't see how the Nightwave helps with my problem. It just doesn't.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Marvelous_A

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

7 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

But if you were new, would that make you a better or worse player? Lazy, carried and taxi'd through content vs had to earn it, had to learn how to do things in the game.

Does it matter how you get something?

If your stats allow you to pass gear checks in relevant end game content, does it actually matter?

Put it this way, if you farmed Stribog 82892 times to get bullet dance how would you be better off than someone who was given one for free by a friend?

The only difference is one of you had something extra to complain about.

Edited March 27, 2019 by (PS4)Mono-Pop

[Test-995]

3 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

But if you were new, would that make you a better or worse player? Lazy, carried and taxi'd through content vs had to earn it, had to learn how to do things in the game.

carried player do better, because more time to spent on useful things.

[Keybones]

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

It takes an uneducated person to say it's a good change. 100x the effort for mostly the same reward? Duh..simple maths.

Calling people who don't agree with you "uneducated" is definitely a winning strat. It works every time, just ask Patrick Soderlund.

There's no reliable method of measuring "effort" since what's difficult or time-consuming for certain players is quick and painless for others, thus it's hardly worth discussing. But "same reward" is outright incorrect, as anyone can see from this season's unique rewards.

[(PSN)thecoolman575]

2 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

You know what? It got me 2 years to finally get my mag gauss helmet. But it only took me 1 year to get almost every other.

Under the new system there is less RNG yes...it's just that you gonna take 3 years to redeem all helmets with the speed of 1 every week. Given, you finish all challenges and never redeem any other things including auras and blueprints.

Is it an improvement? Nope...hardly. As a player, can't see how the Nightwave helps with my problem. It just doesn't.

Yeah there’s way too much stuff for how many wolf creds you get I got lucky because I already had most of the stuff but it’s not very friendly for newer players

 

[Marvelous_A]

5 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

But if you were new, would that make you a better or worse player? Lazy, carried and taxi'd through content vs had to earn it, had to learn how to do things in the game.

It's the matter of the player. Just because I played in the time alert was a thing doesn't mean I got carried all the way from MR1 to the current MR27. It has nothing to do with the system. Besides, doing alerts requires effort. Especially when a Catalyst alert pops up in 3:00 a.m. you have to make choice to get up for it or nah. Now it's a real challenge. Adding a random guy as friends and do 40 waves of IO is not.

[Test-995]

Just now, Keybones said:

Calling people who don't agree with you "uneducated" is definitely a winning strat. It works every time, just ask Patrick Soderlund.

There's no reliable method of measuring "effort" since what's difficult or time-consuming for certain players is quick and painless for others, thus it's hardly worth discussing. But "same reward" is outright incorrect, as anyone can see from this season's unique rewards.

Is there some people that feels apothic farming/sabotage caches as "quick and painless"!?

Well, maybe yes... it doesn't even take an hour...

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

It takes an uneducated person to say it's a good change. 100x the effort for mostly the same reward? Duh..simple maths.

Once upon a time there were 4 nitain alerts per 24 hours.

So, out of the 12 hours of day you get, roughly a 6 hour play session seems pretty reasonable. 

In your 6 hour play session you would likely get a single nitain extract. One. 

It would also be entirely possible that maybe you got two Nitain alerts in you 6 hour play session.... Or NONE.

Now? 

You particpate in nightwave, do the daily challenges, some weekly, ask your clan mates to help you or give you advice on some of the harder ones.

You engage with content you otherwise wouldn’t, learn new things from other players, and get nitain extract 5 at a time.

To call people that disagree with you uneducated is pathetic.

It also just reveals your intentions, you don’t care about this system or the game, you aren’t trying to make things better.

You just want to be angry about something and push an “us vs them” mentality between players and DE.

If nightwave is truly such a burden for you, leave. Because this is the direction DE is taking, and I for one welcome it with open arms.

Edited March 27, 2019 by (PS4)Mono-Pop