MR and game thoughts

[Scarper79]

Have been playing warframe on various accounts since first release of open beta. I have had a thought on how to improve the game. The problem is that once players get mods and frames min/maxed, the content becomes relatively easy, yet the acquisition of mods/ arcanes etc is a massive grind. Many players prefer to sit at the power levelling nodes to speed farming and affinity. Many veteran content creators are bored, and many newer players seem confused.

The answer to these issues, I feel is that the game is actually BACKWARDS. Veterans in "god-mode", while new players struggle and mid level players grind is counterproductive. I would propose a rework of mastery ranking, to REMOVE health and damage in a fixed amount PER mastery rank, as well as LOSING a revive per 5 mastery ranks. This would encourage team play as veterans get squishier and do less damage, making it more important to keep the team on feet through the mission, but as players are better able to equip different warframes, use better weapons and are more familiar with the movement system, this is not a gimp, rather ramps up the challenge. This would also encourage less mastery grubbing, more ACTUAL gameplay and more helping newer players with game mechanics, remembering that newer players would out damage/ survive veteran players. 

These changes would make a MR 26 a legend in the game, because to get that high against the odds means that player would have earned the skills.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Scarper79

[(PSN)Schobii564]

This is ridiculous

[HC217]

so penalize players for trying new things? nah. hard pass

[Scarper79]

A penalty for trying new things... no. A challenge!! No one forces players to MR up!!

[Fire2box]

4 hours ago, Scarper79 said:

to REMOVE health and damage in a fixed amount PER mastery rank, as well as LOSING a revive per 5 mastery ranks. This would encourage team play as veterans get squishier and do less damage, making it more important to keep the team on feet through the mission, but as players are better able to equip different warframes, use better weapons and are more familiar with the movement system, this is not a gimp, rather ramps up the challenge. This would also encourage less mastery grubbing, more ACTUAL gameplay and more helping newer players with game mechanics, remembering that newer players would out damage/ survive veteran players. 

Okay you can put on the vault keys and keep therm on at all times. You're problem has been solved. 

[Scarper79]

still doesn't answer the newer players issue, the lack of CC importance or the lack of teamplay. Nor does this stop the powerlevelling. 

4 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

Okay you can put on the vault keys and keep therm on at all times. You're problem has been solved. 

 

[DissentWomble]

Is it just me or low MR players have this beef with people who actually make maxing their MR a goal in this game? First its the constant shouting stories of MR means nothing like some insecure kid that needs people to acknowledge their decision to not rank up.

This seems like some next level salt right here. 

[Scarper79]

39 minutes ago, kambinks said:

Is it just me or low MR players have this beef with people who actually make maxing their MR a goal in this game? First its the constant shouting stories of MR means nothing like some insecure kid that needs people to acknowledge their decision to not rank up.

This seems like some next level salt right here. 

I actually enjoy playing gimped. I just wish the game got more challenging not less with progression. Many higher MR players don't play the maps, and I have been part of 6 large clans that folded due to nothing for veterans to do.

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

6 minutes ago, Scarper79 said:

I actually enjoy playing gimped. I just wish the game got more challenging not less with progression. Many higher MR players don't play the maps, and I have been part of 6 large clans that folded due to nothing for veterans to do.

Ok so YOU can play gimped while all the sane people use the power they earned and slay everything in their sight like the badarse space ninja's we are. You should not be penalized for making it to the upper echelons, you are supposed to get stronger as you learn more and get new things not the other way around. Why does the solution to veterans having nothing to do involve nerfing them into the ground just for having everything in the game maxed after potentially years of playing anyway? Maybe if DE did not cater to people who think the starchart is endgame and gave veterans something that challenged our min maxed builds while rewarding us in droves simultaneously we would do more stuff. these crazy things you want I honestly have no idea why you think them, but maybe consider just playing a different game if this is how you feel. Also only 4 posts...are you really qualified to decide what endgame players should or should not be like? if you have substantial hours played and have reached the very tippy top then maybe but otherwise you need to stay in the ground like the worm you are!

[Moeton]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

Ok so YOU can play gimped while all the sane people use the power they earned and slay everything in their sight like the badarse space ninja's we are. You should not be penalized for making it to the upper echelons, you are supposed to get stronger as you learn more and get new things not the other way around. Why does the solution to veterans having nothing to do involve nerfing them into the ground just for having everything in the game maxed after potentially years of playing anyway? Maybe if DE did not cater to people who think the starchart is endgame and gave veterans something that challenged our min maxed builds while rewarding us in droves simultaneously we would do more stuff. these crazy things you want I honestly have no idea why you think them, but maybe consider just playing a different game if this is how you feel. Also only 4 posts...are you really qualified to decide what endgame players should or should not be like? if you have substantial hours played and have reached the very tippy top then maybe but otherwise you need to stay in the ground like the worm you are!

Learn to have a laugh. Clearly this guy  has been watching youtube whiners.

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

Just now, Moeton said:

Learn to have a laugh. Clearly this guy  has been watching youtube whiners.

I'm getting mad at all the people who want nerfs to players who have put in the time and work is all. Troll post or not I find it hard to hold back when people suggest such asinine things clearly aimed at the people who kill more then them and play the game smart instead of at a turtles pace. Being a veteran who has been ignored all this time and left with min maxed stuff for weak sauce content could be getting to me I'll admit that. They even removed the things that made arbitration's somewhat endgame and gave us nothing in return except the normal scaling that should of existed in the first place! I just want some hardcore content to sink my builds into that rewards me for the time and effort it took clawing my way up from the bottom after all this time...

[Moeton]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

I'm getting mad at all the people who want nerfs to players who have put in the time and work is all. Troll post or not I find it hard to hold back when people suggest such asinine things clearly aimed at the people who kill more then them and play the game smart instead of at a turtles pace. Being a veteran who has been ignored all this time and left with min maxed stuff for weak sauce content could be getting to me I'll admit that. They even removed the things that made arbitration's somewhat endgame and gave us nothing in return except the normal scaling that should of existed in the first place! I just want some hardcore content to sink my builds into that rewards me for the time and effort it took clawing my way up from the bottom after all this time...

Still, other than DE actually creating an advanced add-on starchart, with new enemies and weapons (let's call it Warframe 2) there is not a lot to keep the loyal playing. At least he is trying in whatever capacity he has.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Moeton

[Femuru]

this is basically the fair fight system implemented already in a few mmo and i almost never see it work out ESPECIALLY when players are powered above current content of the game, not only is this discouraging ppl from raising mr at all but to perma nerf your players just for simply playing is gonna end in flames. you dont put the incentive of challenge by merely punishing the player for following a system meant for the player to follow, you destroy the very reason to play in the first place to power up and face new challenges not lose your power to face same boring things in hopes itll keep ppl busy is only a shady business model. nerfs in understandable in very few scenarios but in warframes case is that they need content that raise up everything on the enemies difficulty whether by level, mechanics, design, or ai but otherwise this system is merely walking backwards in attempt to slow players due to lack of developer own ability to create actual engaging content. this is what happen when you power creep stuff w/o looking at the game as a whole cuz if they take the nerfing route itll end in backlash but if they create more engaging opposing content well itll be alot more work if done right tho will retain player morality. DE kinda dug their own hole by over power creeping on a single aspect of the game so its up to them if they really wanna dig themselves out or take a quick route to climb a rope to only leave the hole there forever that will only leave the game in bad taste.

[DroopingPuppy]

Hell no. Although Mastery Rank has some real benefits such as give some capacity by default, but its main purpose should be show off the vanity. Why we need to penalize the newcommers, for the game that already too cruel for them?

[Chornoboh]

5 hours ago, Scarper79 said:

still doesn't answer the newer players issue, the lack of CC importance or the lack of teamplay. Nor does this stop the powerlevelling. 

 

Blame lack of CC on Nullifers and enemies that are immune to everything. That is what makes dps king.

[akots]

9 hours ago, Scarper79 said:

feel is that the game is actually BACKWARDS. Veterans in "god-mode", while new players struggle and mid level players grind is counterproductive.

And then, some veterans complain ad nauseum in some other thread that Saryn and other nukers should be nerfed because those pesky newbies in pugs don't let them farm Hyndron as slowly as they want. IDK of course, sounds normal and reasonable. 😉

IMHO, as it is now, MR is completely meaningless. However, your suggestion might cripple those veterans with MR25+ into non-existence.

Edited April 29, 2019 by akots

[HexOmega111x]

And again another idea to focus the game even more on new players. Jeez. 

[Sekan]

WHile we're at it, how about we make players stronger for not using mods? Like have the mods only apply their effect, but give some stealth nerfs so they actually end up weaker? Oh and lets make the starting weapon the strongest end-game weapon

Oh hello there Anthem.

[Moeton]

still want warframe 2, as I suggested... really want to take on the sentients and their new pets, in a new solar system, with new elemental mod combos and weapon varieties. As for DPS being king over CC... play whatever you want. I like my CC, and long outgrew the $&*^ measuring of my dmg numbers. I still like to assist the team, and help noobs. OP is only coming at it from one perspective.

[Teridax68]

For all the derision piled on by some people here, and the obvious problems with the proposal, I do think the OP has a point: as we go up in MR, we also expect an escalation in challenge, yet the power we accrue through mods makes us more easily able to complete the challenges the game throws at us. Thus, what we end up experiencing is a downward difficulty curve, where the game is most difficult when one is starting, and as its easiest when one has gone through most or all of it. This is terrible for two reasons: firstly, it's a major contributing factor to the current new player experience, which is way too big a hurdle to jump for many, but on the flipside it also contributes to boredom and burnout at high levels, where content for more advanced players ends up feeling tedious long before it gets challenging. Thus, even if the OP's solution may not be the one to go with, we need to invert this difficulty curve, so that the game starts out easy, and offers more challenge to more advanced players.

In this respect, I think the two pillars to change should be weapon stats and mods:

• Weapons I think are the simplest to explain: currently, we have this MR progression where statistically stronger weapons are unlocked the higher the player progresses in MR (in theory, anyway): putting aside how this fails in practice (many high-MR weapons aren't as good as lower-MR ones), if it were successful it would also be harmful to diversity, in addition to adding this needless difference in power between weapons that could be equally viable. Given that we have pretty accurate Riven dispositions, we could use those to estimate how much power to add to/take from weapons to put them on even footing, and MR progression should instead let the player unlock quirkier and more high-risk, high-reward weapons, like the Lenz, Knell, Dual Toxocyst, etc. TL;DR: equalize the power of weapons.
• Mods I think could be explained relatively simply with the right perspective: currently, players start from nothing, and then build up to a full complement of mods, including with aura/stance mods, Forma, etc. This obviously creates a rift in power between newer and veteran players, and so I think the solution should be to give any newly obtained frame or weapon baseline mods that would fill up its capacity: this should involve letting players downrank mods, but the idea is that players should start at full power, but with a fairly generalized setup, e.g. with a mod that just gives them more damage or more health. Progressing would involve finding new mods for their frame or weapon that they could sacrifice power to include, thus leading to more specialized setups: this would make completing some missions easier and more interesting, but would also make those more specialized frames less likely to do well at everything, and likely at greater risk of dying/losing if they mess up. Thus, new and veteran players would be on equal footing in terms of power (and therefore difficulty), but not specialization.

Putting the two together, the core idea would be to make new and veteran players equal in power, but not in options: progressing through the game would be a matter of discovering new frames, weapons, mods, etc. to unlock deeper gameplay, as the game also offers new mission types, tilesets, enemies, etc. that give the player more of a challenge. The game would therefore be much more able to offer an increasing difficulty curve, rather than a decreasing one, and thereby keep veteran players engaged without discouraging newcomers.

[Steel_Rook]

13 hours ago, Scarper79 said:

I would propose a rework of mastery ranking, to REMOVE health and damage in a fixed amount PER mastery rank, as well as LOSING a revive per 5 mastery ranks.

I rarely go for superlatives, but that is one of the worst things you could possibly do to not just this game but any game overall. Making the player weaker as the game progresses is demoralising, asinine and isn't going to do what you think it's going to do. Penalising players for experimenting with weapons and gear and generally creating a sense of growing weaker and weaker the farther we progress is a perfect way to chase people out of your game entirely. Hard no from me.

[Tsukinoki]

14 hours ago, Scarper79 said:

would propose a rework of mastery ranking, to REMOVE health and damage in a fixed amount PER mastery rank, as well as LOSING a revive per 5 mastery ranks.

So basically: Make it so that if you go higher the the max needed (ATM I believe that is 15) you're just punishing yourself for absolutely zero benefits and with absolutely nothing to show for it?
Why would anyone ever willingly go above the MR required by the game if all its going to do is punish them and punish them and give them absolutely nothing for it?

14 hours ago, Scarper79 said:

This would encourage team play as veterans get squishier and do less damage, making it more important to keep the team on feet through the mission,

Sorry, but you're wrong.
This would only encourage more cheesing.
After all, it doesn't matter if I have a -99% health and -99% damage penalty on my frame if I can just play Loki and ignore everything and use covert lethality to kill the few things I need to.  And if I run up against a hard boss?  Get one of my friends to hop onto the lowest MR account that has access to the content and have him carry me through it.
NO team play is encouraged here.  Just tells people "Hey you're just getting punished for absolutely no reason outside of playing the game, so just cheese harder."

14 hours ago, Scarper79 said:

this is not a gimp, rather ramps up the challenge.

No, this is a straight up gimp.
It doesn't add any challenge at all.  It just punishes you for progressing in the game as you can fully mod your weapons...and deal far less damage than an MR0 with a completely unmodded Braton for absolutely no reason.

Please tell me: Why would anyone ever rank up?  Aside from all the people currently sitting at MR26/27 that have no choice?
After all, why would I want to ever rank up knowing that all that awaits me is that eventually It'll take me 30+ seconds to deal with a single level 10 enemy and I fall over if so much as a strong breeze blows, unless I'm using major cheese that ignores everything?
And this would just put a new form of cheese into the game known as "Have an alternate account at MR5 (lowest to unlock most if not all starchart/quests/etc) to just carry you're useless main account through parts of the game you can't cheese with invisibility."
This idea is actively discouraging players to try out new content and rank up as they are just making themselves arbitrarily weaker and gain absolutely nothing for it.  What possible benefit would this have?

Edited April 29, 2019 by Tsukinoki

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

11 hours ago, Scarper79 said:

I actually enjoy playing gimped. I just wish the game got more challenging not less with progression. Many higher MR players don't play the maps, and I have been part of 6 large clans that folded due to nothing for veterans to do.

Then equip all the dragon keys.  Don't gimp others.

[DerGreif2]

WTF is this thread xD

[Femuru]

11 hours ago, Chornoboh said:

Blame lack of CC on Nullifers and enemies that are immune to everything. That is what makes dps king.

its not even nullies on why there is a lack of cc theyre gonna affect both cc and dps just the same, the reason ppl taking dps is from the fact enemies are gonna insta die from most aoe attacks cuz theyre at a weak lvl with low defense. play at lvl 200-300+ its a whole different story and outlook for many ppl but warframe almost never give us high lvl content to begin with so in these 20 min 20 waves games of course all you would see is nuking cuz the numbers allow for it and its faster.