Rhino Prime needs a Buff

[ryvrdrgn14]

Double Arcane Energize r3 is around 4k plat then you can go use something like a Supra Vandal with the augment.Energy for days.

[(NSW)Nintendork3D]

As a Rhino Prime main....yeah, he doesn't need one.  I'm practically unstoppable with my build and the build isn't even finished as I haven't aquired some of his key mods yet.  I have a maxed flow (putting me at 300 energy) and a maxed streamline, letting me use his abilities quite a but.  And that'll be even better when I get primed flow.

Edited May 11, 2019 by (NSW)Nintendork3D

[G.L.O.R.ious]

 

Thanks, with your feedback I made my Rhino way more enjoyable to play but I still feel that if Rhino had at least 50 more energy he would be perfect.

[OvisCaedo]

Rhino Prime is already one of the biggest effective buffs over the original as far as effectiveness goes. Nearly 50% higher base armor is a hell of a lot when so much of his iron skin scaling comes from armor buffs.

Though maybe Rhino's energy pool in general IS a bit on the low side. Hmm.

[m0b1us1]

On 2019-05-07 at 11:31 AM, G.L.O.R.ious said:

Inaros don't need energy to be imortal.

*cough only if you have a set of arcane grace otherwise all your healing comes from abilities which you would need to use all the time as you have no shields which means that you need to regen energy to heal cough* 

Man this pollen is really getting to me :P

You really don't have an argument comparing inaros to rhino. Yes, with a far greater investment, inaros can out tank rhino. Yet that doesn't mean rhino needs a buff at all. Inaros lacks any sort of potential dps power, he has no ability to buff anyone's damage, he can't CC entire tiles with 1 button, and even his negation swarm doesn't give him full immunity to status. Though that last one is probably a bug as I, an inaros main, have seen a multitude times where statuses (like slash and toxic) bypass negation swarm. 

Rhino isn't as tanky as inaros? Sure let's say that is true. But you should NEVER make those kinds of comparisons. If rhino was as tanky as inaros, then why would anyone ever use inaros as then rhino would be equally as tanky but also have huge damage buffs? When was the last time you ever saw an inaros have a sub 4 minute solo profit taker and should inaros be buffed to match rhinos speed at soloing profit taker?

Frames will have strengths and weaknesses. It is extremely short sighted to say "well xyz is tankier than abc, so xyz needs a buff". Well that could be because they were designed that way. If you kept thinking the way you were, then eventually all frames would be the exact same. My rhino can't beat saryn in wave clear, so now we buff rhino to be as good as saryn. But now saryn is just a squishy version of rhino, so now we are going to buff saryn to be as tanky as rhino. See how that kind of thinking is flawed?

You need to be flexible and you need to understand that frames shouldn't be buff strictly because another frame does something better than it. 

[bibmobello]

47 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

*cough only if you have a set of arcane grace otherwise all your healing comes from abilities which you would need to use all the time as you have no shields which means that you need to regen energy to heal cough* 

Man this pollen is really getting to me :P

You really don't have an argument comparing inaros to rhino. Yes, with a far greater investment, inaros can out tank rhino. Yet that doesn't mean rhino needs a buff at all. Inaros lacks any sort of potential dps power, he has no ability to buff anyone's damage, he can't CC entire tiles with 1 button, and even his negation swarm doesn't give him full immunity to status. Though that last one is probably a bug as I, an inaros main, have seen a multitude times where statuses (like slash and toxic) bypass negation swarm. 

Rhino isn't as tanky as inaros? Sure let's say that is true. But you should NEVER make those kinds of comparisons. If rhino was as tanky as inaros, then why would anyone ever use inaros as then rhino would be equally as tanky but also have huge damage buffs? When was the last time you ever saw an inaros have a sub 4 minute solo profit taker and should inaros be buffed to match rhinos speed at soloing profit taker?

Frames will have strengths and weaknesses. It is extremely short sighted to say "well xyz is tankier than abc, so xyz needs a buff". Well that could be because they were designed that way. If you kept thinking the way you were, then eventually all frames would be the exact same. My rhino can't beat saryn in wave clear, so now we buff rhino to be as good as saryn. But now saryn is just a squishy version of rhino, so now we are going to buff saryn to be as tanky as rhino. See how that kind of thinking is flawed?

You need to be flexible and you need to understand that frames shouldn't be buff strictly because another frame does something better than it. 

You just need magnus repair and you have free health every time... And Rhino is not tanky as Inaros.

Apparently Too many people are using  the new Arcane idiot...

Edited May 18, 2019 by bibmobello

[Melanholic7]

for me he is useless frame just cause nullifiers - u can waste time, stack ur shield and got like 300k barrier, but 1 nullifier in melee combat - and u dead. Well, this is S#&$, thats why im choosing other frames (sadly). 

[m0b1us1]

5 hours ago, bibmobello said:

You just need magnus repair and you have free health every time... And Rhino is not tanky as Inaros.

Apparently Too many people are using  the new Arcane idiot...

Still an arcane and my point still stands. Without an arcane inaros has to completely rely on his abilities to heal. You missed the point entirely.

Oh really? Guess you didn't bother to read a post made on page 2 showing a rhino out tanking an Inaros. Either way, you still completely missed my point. 

Tip, you could also use vazarin focus school to give yourself healing with void dash and make your warframe invulnerable for a time. You should go back and actually read and try to understand what my point was rather than only looking at one part.

[(PSN)Ragology]

1 hour ago, m0b1us1 said:

Tip, you could also use vazarin focus school to give yourself healing with void dash and make your warframe invulnerable for a time. You should go back and actually read and try to understand what my point was rather than only looking at one part.

I don't think Vazarin applies invulnerablilty to the user anymore. At least it doesn't for me (but the heal part works.)

[bibmobello]

3 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

Still an arcane and my point still stands. Without an arcane inaros has to completely rely on his abilities to heal. You missed the point entirely.

Oh really? Guess you didn't bother to read a post made on page 2 showing a rhino out tanking an Inaros. Either way, you still completely missed my point. 

Tip, you could also use vazarin focus school to give yourself healing with void dash and make your warframe invulnerable for a time. You should go back and actually read and try to understand what my point was rather than only looking at one part.

Yes i understand what you wrote but i still repeat he can't use his abilities at all because there are redundant abilities inside the operator schools. he can open to finisher with naramon, he can heal himself with vazarin or he can just bring a dagger with a forced finisher.

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

Why is a post about buffing one of the strongest and most braindead easy frames to play still on the front page?

Rhino Prime does not need a buff.  If you struggle with him, I suggest investing in mods.

[Buttaface]

Get Health Conversion. Get both Sentinel Synth set mods. Wait til you have three Health Conversion balls floating around you (or go ahead and cast Iron Skin and jump into the nearest black hole when you have the three balls). Cast Iron Skin. No spamming "1", don't have to take a lick of damage... 16k Iron Skin. In a game full of black holes to jump into on almost every map, I see little reason to waste a slot on the augment. Especially since with Health Conversion, you will generally have 1000+ to ~2000+ armor under that 16k Iron Skin and optimally Magus Repair on the Operator.

Run ~75% duration and ~75% efficiency with an Arcane Energize set or two. These are getting cheaper and cheaper as we post. You will not run out of energy unless there is some boucoup energy drain that isn't being properly dealt with, and will be able to roar every 20 seconds, stomp occasionally when needed. Shoot for 275-300ish Power Strength. This will give you plenty of tankiness, energy, energy for your team, a nice ~150% dmg buff roar for the team and a powerful if short-lived stomp. Good luck.

[m0b1us1]

On 2019-05-18 at 11:23 AM, bibmobello said:

Yes i understand what you wrote but i still repeat he can't use his abilities at all because there are redundant abilities inside the operator schools. he can open to finisher with naramon, he can heal himself with vazarin or he can just bring a dagger with a forced finisher.

You clearly didn't if that is what you are trying to argue. Let me try again but more directly cause I do have a tendency to over analyze and explain things.

No frames balance should be based on another frames performance. If frame A is a tank, but not as tanky as frame B, then frame A should not get buffed simply because of that. While B might be tankier than A, A has many more things that B doesn't. Make sense?

So you are arguing about how the two frames tank now. Inaros is a healing monster, Rhino uses 2 abilities (ironclad charge is amazing) to grant himself a massive shield that scales based on how much damage he takes in that short invuln time. The two frames tank in completely different ways and are not comparable. 

Again, go look at the previous post showing a rhino taking 40+ shots to kill and 4 shots to kill an Inaros. Different frames are tankier than others in different conditions. 

[bibmobello]

3 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

You clearly didn't if that is what you are trying to argue. Let me try again but more directly cause I do have a tendency to over analyze and explain things.

No frames balance should be based on another frames performance. If frame A is a tank, but not as tanky as frame B, then frame A should not get buffed simply because of that. While B might be tankier than A, A has many more things that B doesn't. Make sense?

So you are arguing about how the two frames tank now. Inaros is a healing monster, Rhino uses 2 abilities (ironclad charge is amazing) to grant himself a massive shield that scales based on how much damage he takes in that short invuln time. The two frames tank in completely different ways and are not comparable. 

Again, go look at the previous post showing a rhino taking 40+ shots to kill and 4 shots to kill an Inaros. Different frames are tankier than others in different conditions. 

I think you never tried a really long run with both. You can take 40 shot with rhino if you are able to use iron charge and iron shrapnel at the right moment and to use both i don't have enough health to survive half shot.

i don't wanna put an end to you daydream but 1.000.000+ of IS are possible only if you use a laser in the orokin tileset or with a +300 bonus if you a have a teammate with nidus. Solo generally you can get 60000-70000 IS and 150.000-200.000 if you have +300 bonus on arbitration.

200.000 IS at 90 minutes are nothing and you have to find a group of enemies to charge very often.

 

During arbitrations after 60 minutes it is full of leechers and drones:  You will see a huge horde of enemies , probably you will  try an iron charge and a funny drone and 10 leechers are there. You will not have enough energy to recast IS, probably dying.

Against corpus  Rhino can't melee inside a  bubble and if it appears from nowhere you are just dead.

With Inaros i just need to sustain only 2 hard shots, i go in operator mode and thank to magnus repair i am safe. Every finisher replenish my health and during finishers you are invincible. if i go inside a bubble i lose my scarab armor but my health is replenished.

I am speaking only because i have just done 2 hours survivals against Grineers  with Rhino with +300 bonus...

Edited May 20, 2019 by bibmobello

[m0b1us1]

13 hours ago, bibmobello said:

I think you never tried a really long run with both. You can take 40 shot with rhino if you are able to use iron charge and iron shrapnel at the right moment and to use both i don't have enough health to survive half shot.

i don't wanna put an end to you daydream but 1.000.000+ of IS are possible only if you use a laser in the orokin tileset or with a +300 bonus if you a have a teammate with nidus. Solo generally you can get 60000-70000 IS and 150.000-200.000 if you have +300 bonus on arbitration.

200.000 IS at 90 minutes are nothing and you have to find a group of enemies to charge very often.

 

During arbitrations after 60 minutes it is full of leechers and drones:  You will see a huge horde of enemies , probably you will  try an iron charge and a funny drone and 10 leechers are there. You will not have enough energy to recast IS, probably dying.

Against corpus  Rhino can't melee inside a  bubble and if it appears from nowhere you are just dead.

With Inaros i just need to sustain only 2 hard shots, i go in operator mode and thank to magnus repair i am safe. Every finisher replenish my health and during finishers you are invincible. if i go inside a bubble i lose my scarab armor but my health is replenished.

I am speaking only because i have just done 2 hours survivals against Grineers  with Rhino with +300 bonus...

Again... You still completely miss the point. Stop and take a moment to actually read what I wrote instead of jumping to some bombastic conclusions.

You still have problems with nullifiers and not being able to melee them? Try using a long range melee like a plague zaw, or how about a gun like akstilleto p, prisma twin gremlins, staticor, or dozens of others? Arbitration drones? Arca plasmor with rhino roar buff eats them. Or catchmoon with roar, still plenty to pop them. Opticor series does amazingly well. Corinth is strong if you have the space for the secondary. There is no shortage or ways around those. Oh, and your non-argument about energy eximus, meet energy pizzas. They are easy to get the bp for, you can build 10 at a time for cheap, and they are instant. Or you can not run a max blind rage and use something like augur secrets so you don't gut your eff. Which is the entire point the OP is trying to make even though he could just run a partially ranked blind rage or secrets and have no issue at all. Nope, instead they wanted to DOUBLE rhinos energy.

To me it sounds like all your issues stem from not being experienced. Example how you still are talking about operator arcanes even though the trial arcanes are far stronger and you seem to struggle with things better players have already adapted to for years.

And 2 hours is a long run? I have done those solo with a number of frames. Rhino being one of them. There are plenty of others who have taken far squishier frames and gone solo for even longer. They aren't complaining or asking for absurd buffs. 

Again, since you seem to have trouble understanding my point... And since I have no idea how to say it any simpler...

NO FRAME SHOULD BE BUFFED/NERFED BECAUSE ANOTHER FRAME IS BETTER/WORSE IN SOME ASPECT. You have yet to provide a significant argument against this which further indicates to me that you really didn't read my post at all.

 

[bibmobello]

24 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

Again... You still completely miss the point. Stop and take a moment to actually read what I wrote instead of jumping to some bombastic conclusions.

You still have problems with nullifiers and not being able to melee them? Try using a long range melee like a plague zaw, or how about a gun like akstilleto p, prisma twin gremlins, staticor, or dozens of others? Arbitration drones? Arca plasmor with rhino roar buff eats them. Or catchmoon with roar, still plenty to pop them. Opticor series does amazingly well. Corinth is strong if you have the space for the secondary. There is no shortage or ways around those. Oh, and your non-argument about energy eximus, meet energy pizzas. They are easy to get the bp for, you can build 10 at a time for cheap, and they are instant. Or you can not run a max blind rage and use something like augur secrets so you don't gut your eff. Which is the entire point the OP is trying to make even though he could just run a partially ranked blind rage or secrets and have no issue at all. Nope, instead they wanted to DOUBLE rhinos energy.

To me it sounds like all your issues stem from not being experienced. Example how you still are talking about operator arcanes even though the trial arcanes are far stronger and you seem to struggle with things better players have already adapted to for years.

And 2 hours is a long run? I have done those solo with a number of frames. Rhino being one of them. There are plenty of others who have taken far squishier frames and gone solo for even longer. They aren't complaining or asking for absurd buffs. 

Again, since you seem to have trouble understanding my point... And since I have no idea how to say it any simpler...

NO FRAME SHOULD BE BUFFED/NERFED BECAUSE ANOTHER FRAME IS BETTER/WORSE IN SOME ASPECT. You have yet to provide a significant argument against this which further indicates to me that you really didn't read my post at all.

 

1)I am sure you haven't done any long run more than 20 minute on arbitration.

2)You have no idea what you are talking about.

3) I was not asking for any buff.

4) You are in my  ignore list...

[(PSN)CodyXSavageX]

so you put redirection there but didn't think to put flow due to your energy complaint?

if you haven't fully optimized  or experimented your own build you can't really call for a buff

Edited May 20, 2019 by (PS4)CodyXSavageX

[G.L.O.R.ious]

17 hours ago, (PS4)CodyXSavageX said:

so you put redirection there but didn't think to put flow due to your energy complaint?

I changed Redirection for Iron Shrapnel as you can see in this same post.

Rhino need two especifc mods to use his Iron Skin properly and a lot of strengh to Roar don't become a joke and can't reduce range if you want to use Stomp.

Rhino has a lot of limitations and energy don't need to be one of them.

If Iron Shrapnel was a Exilus Mod I could put flow in the build without drawback but it isn't and DE probably won't change that so I ask for a buff in his energy capacity.

Edited May 21, 2019 by G.L.O.R.ious

[m0b1us1]

On 2019-05-20 at 2:01 PM, bibmobello said:

1)I am sure you haven't done any long run more than 20 minute on arbitration.

2)You have no idea what you are talking about.

3) I was not asking for any buff.

4) You are in my  ignore list...

Lol alright. 

Last mission I did was a 40 minute arbitration using a vectis p 95% of the time. Also anyone with decent experience doesn't find arbitration hard.

I clearly do, you however have proven yourself to not have a clue. You haven't even been playing this game for a year. 

Never said you did, I was talking about OP.

Didn't realize the best way to assume victory was to run and hide. That's typically what the losing side does. 

[G.L.O.R.ious]

After all the feedback that's the final build that I made for Rhino Prime:

I can use all of his abilities and don't have energy problems but i still have 2 complains:

1. Why you guys just didn't linked your builds so I could achive this build earlier.

2. It dosen't worth the trouble to make it. At this point is better to use Trinity or Chroma.

[Viges]

On 2019-05-18 at 8:06 AM, m0b1us1 said:

*cough only if you have a set of arcane grace otherwise all your healing comes from abilities which you would need to use all the time as you have no shields which means that you need to regen energy to heal cough*

Nvm people already said about magus repair
 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Viges

[m0b1us1]

15 hours ago, Viges said:

Nvm people already said about magus repair
 

Like the other guy who didn't read, you completely missed the point. 

I will reiterate. No frame should have a single aspect buffed or nerfed solely based on the performance of another frame. 

[m0b1us1]

17 hours ago, G.L.O.R.ious said:

After all the feedback that's the final build that I made for Rhino Prime:

I can use all of his abilities and don't have energy problems but i still have 2 complains:

1. Why you guys just didn't linked your builds so I could achive this build earlier.

2. It dosen't worth the trouble to make it. At this point is better to use Trinity or Chroma.

Well to be fair, you came up with the claim that rhino needs a buff instead of asking for help with your build. So a lot of people here were more focused on questioning your build or conclusions.

Trinity doesn't have AoE damage buff or an amazing CC ability. Plus she is far squishier than rhino without her bless buff which makes ability disruption even stronger against her. Chroma isn't immune to status with his VA and EW up, his damage buff can only be shared if the ally is close and stays close, has a far more restrictive and costly build, and requires a reliable way to regen hp. Fire EW can act as a heal, but you typically build duration and you can't recast it so it's an incredibly unreliable to depend on for heals. No frame is without faults and weaknesses. 

Different frames have different issues. You should never compare 2 frames and try to use the performance of one to justify nerfing or buffing another. 

[G.L.O.R.ious]

22 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

No frame should have a single aspect buffed or nerfed solely based on the performance of another frame. 

And that's why Ember still in the trash while Saryn continues to be the most OP Frame.

It has to be a balance between they and comparacion is inevitable.

[G.L.O.R.ious]

3 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

Well to be fair, you came up with the claim that rhino needs a buff instead of asking for help with your build. So a lot of people here were more focused on questioning your build or conclusions.

That is a good point but even after i finally made a good build for Rhino I still think that he needs a buff, not necessary on the energy capacity itself but in one of his especific mods. Two mods for his Iron Skin is way too much, one of them should be a Exilus Mod.