Fulmin build, guide, and why it pisses me off

[YT_OldManTenno]

Been a couple weeks since the last Warframe video, but I should be able to do more soon. This one was worth doing.

 

[Skaleek]

Agree with the nerfhammer inc. Especially if the riven disp is 3/5 to begin. Giving it ease of use, utility, unlimited ammo, versatility to mod (stat vs crit), seems like all upside no downside. Is there anything bad about this weapon?

Edited May 31, 2019 by Skaleek

[Aeon94]

10 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Is there anything bad about this weapon?

Only one thing. Primary fire doesn't have infinite range with no fall off :3

[Kylo.]

35 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Is there anything bad about this weapon?

You need to stop shooting after 60 rounds.

[lukinu_u]

The weapons doesn't have huge downsides, but is still meh in some aspect.
- have no slash but still has IPS
- almost single target (only 3m AoE)
- just ok status chance for auto mode, and bad one for semi-auto
- the weapon looks bad (at least for me)
- don't have unique mechanic

It's not a bad weapon, but it's not perfect, so it's ok I guess.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Skaleek said:

Is there anything bad about this weapon?

Yes most of it is pretty bad and gimmicky.

1. If you want access to the primary fire i.e Arca Plasmor but with crit stats you are just better off with a properly built Catchmoon. Better area coverage, far more damage and much higher crit without rivens included.

2. If you want the full-auto mode of the gun you are better off with any other full auto gun in the game pretty much.

3. If you want a combination of both in one weapon i.e an AoE clear and full auto choice you are just better off with an Amprex with or without sinister reach or an Ignis(wraith).

4. It has a silly low ammo pool and a waaaay too long reload time to make it work smoothly.

5. Too many impact procs on the "shotgun" mode

6. Poor synergy between modes. Terminal Velocity only works on the "shotgun" mode while sinister reach only works on the full auto mode.

7. Piss poor natural range and harsh fall off.

Since we have 2 slots for ranged weapons there is absolutely no reason to bring the Fulmin to anything unless you wanna goof around on the star chart. It is simply quicker to swap between primary and secondary to get the exact same effect as the gimmick mode swap of the Fulmin.

Sadly it worked well in leveling content, so I invested formas in it, Biggest mistake ever made because it is just too damn weak.

edit: Also looking at the video posted, it was tested in a solo environment of low level, that isnt really the best content to showcase the gun and if it works or not. Once you get into dense fights, especially higher up where things may take slightly longer to kill, the very limited ammo will be put to the test.

Edited May 31, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[Loza03]

I wouldn't mind it getting a rebalance to emphasise switching modes. Right now people just seem to use it for its Arca mode, which makes me sad. My favourite part of the weapon is it's two modes, and how flexible it makes the weapon.

It might be fair to nerf the Range on the shotgun mode and have it just have the 10 metres full damage range, not the extra 10 of falling-off range. At the same time, grant the auto fire reverse fall-off, being weaker the closer it is. This 'tipper' damage starts at 25 metres and maxes at 30, maybe turning down its base DPS to compensate. Perhaps from 33 base to 25, but after the reverse fall-off distance is maxed, it's hitting for 45 damage base. That gives it an identifiable weakness, being the space between the optimal ranges for both modes, whilst also giving it a more identifiable personality. 

Another thought is to capitalise on the lack of headshot multiplier on the Shotgun mode and give it a big bonus to headshots in Auto Mode, with a smaller nerf to base damage (more like... 33 to just 30). Really hammer home the dichotomy between the forms. Either way - give it something that makes the mode switch something you're rewarded for doing.

[YT_OldManTenno]

43 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

edit: Also looking at the video posted, it was tested in a solo environment of low level, that isnt really the best content to showcase the gun and if it works or not. Once you get into dense fights, especially higher up where things may take slightly longer to kill, the very limited ammo will be put to the test.

Didn't "test" in that environment, that's just footage for the video. For the testing, I've been using in sorties the last couple days, and test against 150 heavy gunners (there was a clip that showed it versus the Prisma Tetra with a Riven). In both of those, it did pretty damn well. Never really had issues with ammo, but that probably has to do with the way I play. With anything that has punch through, I line up enemies for efficiency.

Not going to say it's the best primary for one particular thing, but it's versatile and gets the job done well enough. It's certainly one of the better guns DE has put out in recent memory.

[YT_OldManTenno]

1 hour ago, Skaleek said:

Agree with the nerfhammer inc. Especially if the riven disp is 3/5 to begin. Giving it ease of use, utility, unlimited ammo, versatility to mod (stat vs crit), seems like all upside no downside. Is there anything bad about this weapon?

It's a bit of a jack-of-all-trades weapon, so it doesn't do one singular thing better than some focused weapons. Wouldn't consider that a bad thing since there has to be some trade off. Other than that, I say this weapon is a keeper.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, OldManTenno said:

Didn't "test" in that environment, that's just footage for the video. For the testing, I've been using in sorties the last couple days, and test against 150 heavy gunners (there was a clip that showed it versus the Prisma Tetra with a Riven). In both of those, it did pretty damn well. Never really had issues with ammo, but that probably has to do with the way I play. With anything that has punch through, I line up enemies for efficiency.

Not going to say it's the best primary for one particular thing, but it's versatile and gets the job done well enough. It's certainly one of the better guns DE has put out in recent memory.

It doesnt change the massive shortcomings that the gun comes with. There just isnt a reason to use it besides the "fun" factor since any combination of a primary and secondary will do whatever job you have intended for Fulmin alot better.

Also the modding restrictions between the two modes is horrible. They should have gone all out and let you mod each mode seperately to make it really unique.

I wouldnt worry about it ever getting nerfed, if anything it should get buffed. Increased range for both modes would be a good start along with shorter recharge time (currently it sits at 1+2sec for the battery to fill) and possibly a capacity of 80 ammo (8 shots with semi mode).

edit: Not quite sure about the comparison of a P-Tetra and Fulmin to begin with either. One is MR4 and generally bad the other is MR8. the extra base damage from the riven wont make up for the stat difference. You are also comparing a bad status weapon (zero slash) with a crit one. I mean the Amprex that is 2 MR higher in requirement rips apart a full group of CHGs in the same (or shorter) time as Fulmin kills one. The same deal goes for Ignis which is just MR5. Neither of the two even needs headshots to pull that off.

Edited May 31, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[YT_OldManTenno]

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It doesnt change the massive shortcomings that the gun comes with. There just isnt a reason to use it besides the "fun" factor since any combination of a primary and secondary will do whatever job you have intended for Fulmin alot better.

I'm not sure how you can say this since you've barely completed over 60% of the primaries in Warframe. Also, pairing with a secondary effectively gives you 3 weapon choices instead of two. You might not have modded it correctly since it statistically outperforms a majority of primary weapons.

Also the modding restrictions between the two modes is horrible. They should have gone all out and let you mod each mode seperately to make it really unique.

There are no weapons in the game that let you mod different modes.

I wouldnt worry about it ever getting nerfed, if anything it should get buffed. Increased range for both modes would be a good start along with shorter recharge time (currently it sits at 1+2sec for the battery to fill) and possibly a capacity of 80 ammo (8 shots with semi mode).

The second mode already has infinite range, you can't get any better than that. Also, the primary fire mode is designed to be used when lining up enemies, ala the Arca Plasmor and Catchmoon. Also consider this is a silent weapon in it's primary form, something you might want to bring to spy missions.

edit: Not quite sure about the comparison of a P-Tetra and Fulmin to begin with either. One is MR4 and generally bad the other is MR8. the extra base damage from the riven wont make up for the stat difference. You are also comparing a bad status weapon (zero slash) with a crit one. I mean the Amprex that is 2 MR higher in requirement rips apart a full group of CHGs in the same (or shorter) time as Fulmin kills one. The same deal goes for Ignis which is just MR5. Neither of the two even needs headshots to pull that off.

This is a moot point since the Fulmin also has zero slash, and has worse status chance (16%/10% status vs. 24% for the Prisma Tetra), yet is still manages to outDPS the PT. The MR lock is also moot because some weapons outperform those that are locked higher (witness the regular Vectis at MR2 still outDPS's the Prisma Tetra 337.5 vs. 269.04, AND has better status, AND has better crit, AND has innate punch through, AND is hit scan). You already admitted that the Prisma Tetra is bad, which proves the point in the video... the base stats need to be raised to make weapons like this a viable option. The comparison to the Amprex and Ignis isn't really valid since both are designed specifically for short range fire exclusively, while the Fulmin can also take care of long range as well. The fact that the Fulmin is even being compared to these weapons while still having an alt-fire speaks to the testament of this weapon (I'll ignore the fact the Fulmin out dps's the Ignis 1085 to 264).

Conclusion: I'm not saying it is the absolute best primary weapon, but a model for what existing weapons (bad ones) should live up to.

 

[YT_OldManTenno]

12 hours ago, Loza03 said:

I wouldn't mind it getting a rebalance to emphasise switching modes. Right now people just seem to use it for its Arca mode, which makes me sad. My favourite part of the weapon is it's two modes, and how flexible it makes the weapon.

It might be fair to nerf the Range on the shotgun mode and have it just have the 10 metres full damage range, not the extra 10 of falling-off range. At the same time, grant the auto fire reverse fall-off, being weaker the closer it is. This 'tipper' damage starts at 25 metres and maxes at 30, maybe turning down its base DPS to compensate. Perhaps from 33 base to 25, but after the reverse fall-off distance is maxed, it's hitting for 45 damage base. That gives it an identifiable weakness, being the space between the optimal ranges for both modes, whilst also giving it a more identifiable personality. 

Another thought is to capitalise on the lack of headshot multiplier on the Shotgun mode and give it a big bonus to headshots in Auto Mode, with a smaller nerf to base damage (more like... 33 to just 30). Really hammer home the dichotomy between the forms. Either way - give it something that makes the mode switch something you're rewarded for doing.

I use the secondary fire quite often, either for taking out longer range targets or nullifiers. It's pretty good at both.

[Rhyandra]

Am 31.5.2019 um 20:43 schrieb Skaleek:

Agree with the nerfhammer inc. Especially if the riven disp is 3/5 to begin. Giving it ease of use, utility, unlimited ammo, versatility to mod (stat vs crit), seems like all upside no downside. Is there anything bad about this weapon?

What?

-Shotgun mode has a SUPER small AoE

-Shotgun only has 6 shots and the long recharge time combined with the small AoE makes you run away too often against waves of enemies

-Auto mode is a worse version of the Tiberon

-Shotgun mode is a scuffed version of the Arca Plasmor

In the end, it's a combination of two weapon types. THIS is how new weapons should be designed. There's zero powercreep. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Karu-QW

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, OldManTenno said:

I use the secondary fire quite often, either for taking out longer range targets or nullifiers. It's pretty good at both.

Same here, but I've seen a lot of people complain about it exclusively for the Shotgun mode. I've seen people claiming it's 'just a worse Arca Plasmor', and people requesting more base range for it.

[SneakyErvin]

7 hours ago, OldManTenno said:

I'm not sure how you can say this since you've barely completed over 60% of the primaries in Warframe. Also, pairing with a secondary effectively gives you 3 weapon choices instead of two. You might not have modded it correctly since it statistically outperforms a majority of primary weapons.

There are no weapons in the game that let you mod different modes.

The second mode already has infinite range, you can't get any better than that. Also, the primary fire mode is designed to be used when lining up enemies, ala the Arca Plasmor and Catchmoon. Also consider this is a silent weapon in it's primary form, something you might want to bring to spy missions.

This is a moot point since the Fulmin also has zero slash, and has worse status chance (16%/10% status vs. 24% for the Prisma Tetra), yet is still manages to outDPS the PT. The MR lock is also moot because some weapons outperform those that are locked higher (witness the regular Vectis at MR2 still outDPS's the Prisma Tetra 337.5 vs. 269.04, AND has better status, AND has better crit, AND has innate punch through, AND is hit scan). You already admitted that the Prisma Tetra is bad, which proves the point in the video... the base stats need to be raised to make weapons like this a viable option. The comparison to the Amprex and Ignis isn't really valid since both are designed specifically for short range fire exclusively, while the Fulmin can also take care of long range as well. The fact that the Fulmin is even being compared to these weapons while still having an alt-fire speaks to the testament of this weapon (I'll ignore the fact the Fulmin out dps's the Ignis 1085 to 264).

Conclusion: I'm not saying it is the absolute best primary weapon, but a model for what existing weapons (bad ones) should live up to.

Because there is no reason to complete the rest that I dont want to use. It doesnt make the ones I use worse when comparing them to Fulmin. Statistics arent all and I've modded it the same as you aswell as a "shotgun" build utilizing HM. There arent exactly many choices when it comes to modding it. Also, who needs 3 choices? What third choice could you possibly need? Now it we were able to bring 3 different damage type combos, then that would be a great thing, but we are still stuck with two, the difference between the innate impact or puncture damage just doesnt change enough. You really only ever need 2 different choices, single target and AoE, which you cover just fine with primary, secondary and melee.

And no, there are no weapons that lets us modify their modes seperately, hence why I said it would make it unique.

I completely missed that it had infinite range on the full auto, my bad. It is still a weak mode. As for it being silent, I still wouldnt bring it to spy because I already have artemis bow on Ivara or a good enough melee on Loki if I run him.

It is a moot point to compare weapons with different modding and damage patterns to begin with. As for Amprex, yes it may be designed around short range, but there are few missions where you need something that reaches longer than 31m (an Amprex with Sinister Reach). At that point, which is the majority of times, amprex serves both as your AoE clear and as a viable single target option.

As for Fulmin out dpsing Ignis, that really depends on the situation and density. Statistics arent everything. When you compare the two in an environment where Fulmin would have to switch modes to be effective the dps quickly drops while the Ignis can handle all enemies effectively. And when you get to dense fights the reliability and effectiveness of the Fulmin drops even further due to the mag capacity that is horribly low along with a very slow reload. And since we are playing a horde shooter, density is a common thing. Ignis also doesnt have to struggle with a S#&$ stat competing with corrosive procs, unlike Fulmin which is plagued by impact, puncture and low status. And not to forget, Fulmin has no headshot multiplier either on the crowd clear.

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[GunRaptor9000]

You just got a like and subscribe from me.

Keep making videos, please.

[SneakyErvin]

Did some more testing with Fulmin because I really wanted to find atleast a use for it and I can say that I came up with one way of making it a good Full-Auto weapon atleast that does indeed pack a punch. The semi version however is still dead to me, both due to the low ammo pool, extremely short range and the forced impact. However, the full-auto mode does rip through things quite easily and is a good option to run with if you want something to just take down nullibubbles and then go back to something like your Catchmoon secondary.

So I modded it the following way.

Serration, Heavy Caliber, Split Chamber, Primed Shred, Infected Clip, Point Strike, Vital Sense and Hunter Munitions.

Shred/Primed Shred really improves the full auto rifle thanks to the punch through along with increased fire rate and Hunter Munitions scale very well with this gun thanks to the high base damage, high crit and high crit damage.

Now the low ammo pull is still annoying in addition to the fairly long reload, however it is a good backup weapon for nullifiers. I've ran with Synapse, Supra Vandal, Ignis Wraith and Amprex for those situations previously but the big plus for me with the full auto Fulmin is that you simply toggle on secondary fire at the start of mission then just bring it out when needed to handle bubbles etc. then you just switch back to your other weapon without the need to reload it and it will be fully loaded the next time you need it.

It pairs up extremely well with a Catchmoon using Pax Charge because your weapons will always be loaded when you switch between them.

So I may have been a bit harsh on Fulmin to begin with, but I likely wont change my stance on the uselessness of the semi version.

Edited June 3, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[supernils]

On 2019-05-31 at 9:45 PM, SneakyErvin said:

1. If you want access to the primary fire i.e Arca Plasmor but with crit stats you are just better off with a properly built Catchmoon. Better area coverage, far more damage and much higher crit without rivens included.

 

TLDR Downside: it's not the best weapon

 

 

[SneakyErvin]

54 minutes ago, supernils said:

TLDR Downside: it's not the best weapon

The semi-mode isnt even avarage due to the extremely short range, absurd ammo consumption, very slow recharge and lack of headshot multiplier. The full-auto however is a very respectable weapon option.