Nightwave: Intermission live on all Platforms!

[Athgaar]

9 hours ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

There's always something more to forma.  I don't understand people, there are hundreds of things to forma in this game.  Unless you actually have every single frame and weapon fully forma'ed out, which I seriously doubt as that takes thousands upon thousands of hours as well as thousands of forma.

False. Most of the things that can take forma are mastery garbage, not things to forma (except to satisfy Nora). There are maybe a dozen or two things to forma (useful pieces of gear plus Paracesis for mastery) in this game, and they take no more than 200 forma collectively.

The forma challenge is trivial, granted, for a low- to mid-level player who'd be doing that anyway. New players don't have 3 forma ready to feed Nora at a moment's notice and/or haven't unlocked popular ranking nodes (i.e. ones where they can reliably find public players to carry them if need be). Veterans, many of whom do have thousands upon thousands of hours sunk into this game, have all the forma they need in their useful gear and Paracesis already.

The forma, sculpture, and gilding challenges are resource sinks. They incentivize hoarding those resources (forma and usefully forma-consuming gear, empty sculptures and their requisite stars, and eventually modular weapon MR whenever the Duviri or whoever come out with the first batch of it to be released after Nightwave) in case Nora demands them. They disincentivize spending those resources organically, as needed to achieve their normal effects (fully functional farming tools, endo/platinum, and MR).

I acknowledge the need for resource sinks, and I struggle to imagine a better one (since the people who need their resources sunk most will just neglect to sink them without the feeling of obligation such as Nightwave provides), but I and so many others would love to see these challenges just deleted.

[HorneySaint]

PLEASE PLEASE !!

Remove  Gild Modular item from Night Wave . Its so dumb  and its just waste of resources . Like  I literally have  every single weapon gilded in my inventory why i am suppose to do that again 

[Slayer-.]

A challenge I cannot do will not do 'Gild a Modular Item' penalising veteran players who have every modular weapon where they are happy with, 13 zaws and 7 Kitguns, yes it's only one item to do in the Act but that is 6000 standing I'm missing out on, I'm not sure of the percentage you need to complete to get the aura forma before it ends and I like doing them all but feel I should not have to be hindered by a challenge I cannot do I'm MR 27 and feel it should be a challenge a newer or veteran player can do who's to say that more of these sort of challenges are going to hinder veterans in the future.

Liking the rest of it so far, it's nice to see something again seeing we don't have an alert system anymore.

_{Edit: Mods If my post IP shows as different to my normal one I had my VPN running.}

[Nichivo]

Gild!  With the absurd number of amps, zaws, and kitguns, I own that are all gilded.  You expect me to gild something again? 

[Zelmen]

2 hours ago, Nichivo said:

Gild!  With the absurd number of amps, zaws, and kitguns, I own that are all gilded.  You expect me to gild something again? 

You do know that the mote amp counts? Thats 11min to craft and like 20 min to level.

As for the forma people, do plague star and get pre crafted ones. With a rank reward of 3 forma you break even.

[Nichivo]

 

6 minutes ago, Zelmen said:

You do know that the mote amp counts? Thats 11min to craft and like 20 min to level.

I have 12 gilded amps including a gilded mote amp already. I don't want to build another and the turn in rep is garbage. 

gilding should never be a choice for nightwave. I'll let forma slide but not gilding.

[Zelmen]

Just now, Nichivo said:

 

I have 12 gilded amps including a gilded mote amp already. I don't want to build another and the turn in rep is garbage. 

gilding should never be a choice for nightwave. I'll let forma slide but not gilding.

The point of NW is to get people involved in all aspects of the game. This could lead players to trying something new they have been avoiding. Just because you made all the items and refuse to make a dirt cheap one doesn't mean it doesn't belong. Anyone who is complaining about this probably has all the mats for a mote amp collecting dust.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Zelmen said:

The point of NW is to get people involved in all aspects of the game. This could lead players to trying something new they have been avoiding. Just because you made all the items and refuse to make a dirt cheap one doesn't mean it doesn't belong. Anyone who is complaining about this probably has all the mats for a mote amp collecting dust.

Eh, it only helps make me hate all the parts of the game i didn't wanna touch anyway. If that's DE's intention I think it is failing spectacularly for most players.

Sure, the Forma Challenge indirectly made me revisit relics and all because I can't stand not having double digit numbers of Forma in my inv ... but it made me salty when I got a gold part streak (for Primed Weapons and Frames I already have, which means some minor plat or Ducats) and NO FORMA. I don't even want anything from Baro.

The whole deal reeks of "not working".

[(PSN)TX_CHAINSAW_81]

22 hours ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

There's always something more to forma.  I don't understand people, there are hundreds of things to forma in this game.  Unless you actually have every single frame and weapon fully forma'ed out, which I seriously doubt as that takes thousands upon thousands of hours as well as thousands of forma.  It helps if you don't contradict yourself in 2 sentences you say you want to do all the challenges, then you say you don't want to use forma to complete the challenge.  On top of that, if you miss one challenge you can still attain rank 15 in intermission so what's the big deal about missing a challenge.  If you wanted a really bad version of nightwave it would be one where you had to do 100% of the challenges to get to max rank.  DE realized this so you didn't have to do absolutely every single challenge presented.  

I have 3600 hours in game. Ive mastered ALL the the items in the game except one thats a daily login reward. Ive put over 100 forma into my own dojo. Ive put forma into everything I want. It’s annoying to waste resources that I don’t need to. Yes, I want to do all the challenges but not ones like that, was my point. I went ahead and wasted forma and did the challenge anyways. Its an annoyance when you’re a vet. When you get to my level, maybe you’ll understand.

[ReaverKane]

40 minutes ago, Zelmen said:

The point of NW is to get people involved in all aspects of the game. This could lead players to trying something new they have been avoiding. Just because you made all the items and refuse to make a dirt cheap one doesn't mean it doesn't belong. Anyone who is complaining about this probably has all the mats for a mote amp collecting dust.

Nah, sorry, but nah...
The point of Nightwave is to replace alerts. That's it, that's the intent they expressed, and it fails spectacularly at that, in just about every way possible.

And also, no, your point is stupid, if people already have all their modular items gilded, they have already engaged with the content, this doesn't increase engagement, it decreases it. In my ghost clan (admittedly small sample) i've lost 80% of active players EXCLUSIVELY from Nightwave burnout. I've replaced most already, but now it's mostly newbies which aren't yet able to do stuff with me, so i'm stuck playing either solo or babysitting (which i don't mind, but still).

The Forma and Gild challenges represent a NET LOSS of resources for players, the reward is lower than the investment, which makes it a poor choice of a challenge.

[(PSN)TX_CHAINSAW_81]

1 minute ago, ReaverKane said:

Nah, sorry, but nah...
The point of Nightwave is to replace alerts. That's it, that's the intent they expressed, and it fails spectacularly at that, in just about every way possible.

And also, no, your point is stupid, if people already have all their modular items gilded, they have already engaged with the content, this doesn't increase engagement, it decreases it. In my ghost clan (admittedly small sample) i've lost 80% of active players EXCLUSIVELY from Nightwave burnout. I've replaced most already, but now it's mostly newbies which aren't yet able to do stuff with me, so i'm stuck playing either solo or babysitting (which i don't mind, but still).

Exactly. When you’ve played all the content to death, you end up deciding which game modes you like. Those game modes are probably a small percentage of the whole game. For example, maybe a person just likes Eidolons, fissure missions, and ESO. You think he wants to go do other stuff he already decided was boring?

[KitMellow]

WHERE'S OUR UMBRAL FORMA 😧

[Zelmen]

22 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

And also, no, your point is stupid

I see rather than having a discussion you just want to jump to name calling. So your points are stupid.

16 minutes ago, (PS4)TX_CHAINSAW_81 said:

You think he wants to go do other stuff he already decided was boring?

People change and depending on how long you have played you might not have seen changes and could lead to including it in normal game play. NW replaces alerts and that is clearly stated. The fact they added on to the type of missions to be more like the challenges seen from rivens seems to be what irks people.

Clearing players don't have a tolerance and need to be handed everything. So let just remove all rewards throw them into a rewards window and any mission gives credits. This way no ones feels are hurt for spending a little time out of their comfort zone.

[ReaverKane]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)TX_CHAINSAW_81 said:

Exactly. When you’ve played all the content to death, you end up deciding which game modes you like. Those game modes are probably a small percentage of the whole game. For example, maybe a person just likes Eidolons, fissure missions, and ESO. You think he wants to go do other stuff he already decided was boring?

Well, i still play most content, and if people end up drifting towards specific stuff, that's a design flaw on DE's part, which shouldn't be fixed with another design flaw. Two wrongs don't make a right. And forcing players into wasting resources for the sake of having participation in content is not how you design something to last.

This is the whole problem with DE, they are pretty good technically, and in the design department, but they're pretty hit or miss in understanding the reward feedback loops that keep players coming back.
A proper resource sink is one that gives back to the player, Nightwave just takes away. I mean you'd have to be pretty baked in the head, as a player, to think that spending 3 forma to get 6k standing, and then spend 10k standing to get 3 forma back is a good reward. Of course for devs it's a good thing if players buy this crap, because scarcity creates sales, so removing more items than you give back is a nice way to win some.

Want a great resource drain that people would buy into immediately?
Create a "recipe" that requires a full mastered prime warframe and 10 forma for a (non-repeating) roll to get one prime accessory for that warframe's prime access, and i can promise you that you'll see formas flying off people's inventories like crazy. Of course that would probably reduce the sales on those 45€ packs, but hey...

3 minutes ago, Zelmen said:

I see rather than having a discussion you just want to jump to name calling. So your points are stupid.

Well, i didn't call you names, i placed a qualifier on your point (intelligent people can make stupid remarks, happens a lot), and they i detailed why they earn that qualifier. Of course, it's better to shout out "ad hominem" than address the second fact. So i don't know who's trying to avoid the discussion, also there's no discussion to be had. Those challenges are effectively and demonstrably bad, and harming the game, no amount of fanboy defence can make up to that fact.

3 minutes ago, Zelmen said:

People change and depending on how long you have played you might not have seen changes and could lead to including it in normal game play. NW replaces alerts and that is clearly stated. The fact they added on to the type of missions to be more like the challenges seen from rivens seems to be what irks people.

No, actually the challenges are also a replacement of the old in-mission challenges that rewarded affinity. Also, those challenges that resemble the ones on rivens are not getting any issue. No one has complained about the lvl 30 extermination without alarms, or killing x Eximus, or stuff like that. People complain about challenges that place them at a loss.
Be it like the forma and Gild items that make you lose resources for no corresponding reward, or missions like the 60m survivals, that make you waste time for no corresponding adequate reward. When you have obvious discrepancies like equating 3 ESO waves with 60 minute survival without life support, or even just 60m survival with a friend to 60m survival without life support, those are the things that people have railed against.
That and challenges like the ayatan that requires more sculptures than what most people can obtain without relying on RNG. Sure there's arbitrations for some of us, but that's them trying to force us into a losing scenario. Like with the 60m survivals Arbitrations give no adequate reward for the time spent. They ask us to spend twice the time in a mission, for a reward that most of the time is inferior than what you get in easier missions. Of course that won't be popular.

3 minutes ago, Zelmen said:

Clearing players don't have a tolerance and need to be handed everything. So let just remove all rewards throw them into a rewards window and any mission gives credits. This way no ones feels are hurt for spending a little time out of their comfort zone.

That's nonsense, i love how people that have no arguments just go for the straw-man... The problem is that we already EARNED the Gilded items, we're not asking to be handed things, we're just saying, and quite correctly that the effort doesn't match the reward, and that having to build a weapon, level it up, and then spend resources to gild it, and then just sell it back at a loss, for 6k standing, is not an adequate reward for that effort, and a lot of us have done this

If people already Gilded the items once, that means it's quite within their comfort zone, because they already did, without extra prompts from Nightwave. They just don't see why they should be destroying items for a negligible reward. See what i mean about your points?

[Zelmen]

53 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

No, actually the challenges are also a replacement of the old in-mission challenges that rewarded affinity.

 Very few complained and more probably don't even remember the popup at the start of the mission. The focus on my comment is the alerts on the star chart were rewards came from.

9 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

No one has complained about the lvl 30 extermination without alarms, or killing x Eximus, or stuff like that. People complain about challenges that place them at a loss.

I have seen almost every task complained about aside from the Kill X with X status. So good job picking the tasks that people do every day without NW tasks. This is because those aren't a task. Other than needing a new status you are going to kill x just by playing the game. I am not try to spew some fanboy defense but rather state the thoughts that someone trying to develop an interaction at all parts of the game. 

There has been issues and they are working in the right direction. 60 Min missions are gone and even I agree those were too long (even more so with host issues). But some of the things just make no sense. Complaining about forma? You were going to use it at some point and they just gave you the nudge to do it. Personally I would like to see it be only 1 maybe two mainly for the crafting time. As for gilding, other than not wanting to do something they are promoting gameplay. But there might be a loss you say. Fine than I guess they need to change it to play a mission with a gilded item. There a boring task but nothing was lost I guess.

32 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

That's nonsense, i love how people that have no arguments just go for the straw-man...

It's not nonsense when you have a large group of people and someone is always unhappy. The only solution is to remove all obstacles. I said it more as joke than anything. You know what though? I have already done every task they have ever put into nightwave. I already got everything from ESO, SO, Profit taker, Exploiter orb, Arbitrations, relics, reps and more. Why can't I just have what I want out of the shop? I have already EARNED to be done with that nonsense and shouldn't be asked to take my time away from what I want to do ingame. The point is that there are people who haven't. There is no way to make a system to encourage new players to do something without bothering experienced players, and vice versa. They would have to auto complete those tasks but how is that fair with each new season for people to just login and get rep. OR, they would have to make two different systems based on game completion. You can't have a dynamic system or else you risk some having harder weeks than others.

 

All I wanted to do is tell someone an easier way to finish the task and instead I got suckered into this shlthole of an argument. Did I tell anyone to STFU and not post opinions? No. Is it ideal? No. Did I suggest they are trying to get people into less popular areas of the game? Yes. Is it painfully ridiculous to ask? No, the mote amp takes 11min to craft and 10-20min to level to rank 30 in most high level missions (where you most likely are anyway) and its operator so it doesn't effect the frame you have (99.9% of time). Don't have 3 statues? Run the weekly quest and use the catch-up mech. Also sorry you got asked to use 3 forma rather than horde them.

[(XBOX)Scurtt]

So approximately what is the completion percentage required to hit rank 15? Do we have to do every single daily task to max it? or is it closer to 90% challenge completion. Also, thanks for making this happen. It’s been exciting grinding some of these and making us explore other sides of the game. 

[(PSN)TX_CHAINSAW_81]

Howabout grouping a couple of Nightwave challenges together but only having to choose 1 of the 2 to get the standing? For example...

Use 3 forma -OR- Complete 8 zones of ESO to get 9k standing.

[ReaverKane]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Scurtt said:

So approximately what is the completion percentage required to hit rank 15? Do we have to do every single daily task to max it? or is it closer to 90% challenge completion. Also, thanks for making this happen. It’s been exciting grinding some of these and making us explore other sides of the game. 

We don't know how long it'll last, so we can't make any assumptions, another of Nightwave's flaws.
You need 150 000 points to complete, you get ~55k per week, so 3 weeks should be more than enough to complete Intermission, thanks to them increasing the overal Standing available per week from ~43k to ~55k.
So if it lasts 3 weeks, you need ~90% completion, if it lasts 4 weeks you'll need ~70%, it gets considerably lower the long it goes. I wouldn't expect it to last too long though, since it doesn't have the prestige phase, so probably those 4 weeks, which incidentally would mean it would end around tennocon... So they might be planning to launch Season 2 during tennocon for that impact.

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)TX_CHAINSAW_81 said:

Howabout grouping a couple of Nightwave challenges together but only having to choose 1 of the 2 to get the standing?

For example...

Use 3 forma orrrr Complete 8 zones of ESO to get 9k standing. 

This will give more options to players.

Yeah, that would be the better option. Kinda like Guild Wars 2 dailies, they give you like 6 different chores, you only need 3 for completion, but each one you do, including the extras gives some reward.
Incorporating this into the Nightwave could be somewhat simple, and probably result in a better system:
increase (1.5x should be a good number) the current available acts, but keep the same numbers on the tracker. Then award creds for each weekly and elite weekly act, and standing on daily acts. Finally, the first 5 Weekly acts get 6k standing, and the first 2 elite weekly gets 9k.
So players need to do the same number, but get choices, and if they do extra, they get more creds. They can then choose to either remove or keep creds in the reward track.
Might be a better system overall.

[Athgaar]

To those wondering about the time limit and the completion rate needed, the first post in this thread says it ends on July 5. This means there'll be 4 weeks, each with 5 regular weekly tasks worth 6000 standing and 2 elite weekly tasks worth 9000, for a total of 48,000 non-daily standing per week, or 192,000 total.

Ignoring dailies (because those hitting all the dailies aren't remotely in danger of not finishing), this means you'll need ~78% completion (150k/192k) of the weekly tasks to finish the intermission. Even with no dailies done, you can afford to miss 42,000 weekly standing, which is:

• 7 normal weekly tasks, OR
• 4 normals and 2 elites, OR
• 1 normal and 4 elites, OR
• even more if you do some or all of the dailies

More to the point, you can comfortably get through Nightwave without doing resource sink tasks (use 3 forma, gild 1 item, socket X sculptures). We've seen two of the four weeks so far, and only two normal tasks have been resource sinks. Unless DE puts all three resource sinks in both of the upcoming weeks (which they probably won't), it's safe to skip them all and a few more besides.

[ReaverKane]

12 minutes ago, Athgaar said:

To those wondering about the time limit and the completion rate needed, the first post in this thread says it ends on July 5. This means there'll be 4 weeks, each with 5 regular weekly tasks worth 6000 standing and 2 elite weekly tasks worth 9000, for a total of 48,000 non-daily standing per week, or 192,000 total.

Ignoring dailies (because those hitting all the dailies aren't remotely in danger of not finishing), this means you'll need ~78% completion (150k/192k) of the weekly tasks to finish the intermission. Even with no dailies done, you can afford to miss 42,000 weekly standing, which is:

• 7 normal weekly tasks, OR
• 4 normals and 2 elites, OR
• 1 normal and 4 elites, OR
• even more if you do some or all of the dailies

More to the point, you can comfortably get through Nightwave without doing resource sink tasks (use 3 forma, gild 1 item, socket X sculptures). We've seen two of the four weeks so far, and only two normal tasks have been resource sinks. Unless DE puts all three resource sinks in both of the upcoming weeks (which they probably won't), it's safe to skip them all and a few more besides.

Oh, didn't notice that it had a deadline mentioned, thanks for pointing it out!

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

On 2019-06-17 at 8:52 AM, (PS4)TX_CHAINSAW_81 said:

I have 3600 hours in game. Ive mastered ALL the the items in the game except one thats a daily login reward. Ive put over 100 forma into my own dojo. Ive put forma into everything I want. It’s annoying to waste resources that I don’t need to. Yes, I want to do all the challenges but not ones like that, was my point. I went ahead and wasted forma and did the challenge anyways. Its an annoyance when you’re a vet. When you get to my level, maybe you’ll understand.

I have 3K hours in game and there is still gear for me to forma because there are literally hundreds of weapons and frames out there.  If you have everything fully forma'ed out that means that is all you have been doing those 3600 hours and have been doing basically nothing else.  On top of this, new weapons were just released the week of the challenge that you can forma to fulfill the requirement as it was literally impossible to forma the komorex for example 2 weeks ago.  On top of that, if you have everything fully forma'ed, it isn't a waste of forma since you're likely building 1 a day and that's more then enough forma to forma out every new weapon/frame that comes out every several months.  It isn't a hard challenge.  You can buy a forma bundle for 35 platinum, and if you think that's expensive go to trade chat as it is trivial to make 35 plat in trade chat if you have a set of anything.  

[Radagosh]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb (XB1)COA Altair:

I have 3K hours in game and there is still gear for me to forma because there are literally hundreds of weapons and frames out there.  If you have everything fully forma'ed out that means that is all you have been doing those 3600 hours and have been doing basically nothing else.  On top of this, new weapons were just released the week of the challenge that you can forma to fulfill the requirement as it was literally impossible to forma the komorex for example 2 weeks ago.  On top of that, if you have everything fully forma'ed, it isn't a waste of forma since you're likely building 1 a day and that's more then enough forma to forma out every new weapon/frame that comes out every several months.  It isn't a hard challenge.  You can buy a forma bundle for 35 platinum, and if you think that's expensive go to trade chat as it is trivial to make 35 plat in trade chat if you have a set of anything.  

i have 6k hours, gilding (and amp or zaw I already own) and formaing (my 6 forma frames another 3 times) are a waste of my ressources gimme back my 40 waves defense and 1 hour survivals those were at least a tiny bit of what I'd expect from elite challenges.

Formaing mr fodder ain't a solution to the argument of burning ressources, especially with the excuse of it being a challenge to sit afk in 6 waves of ESO. Also, telling me to just pay some plat doesn't sit well with me.

[ReaverKane]

56 minutes ago, Radagosh said:

Formaing mr fodder ain't a solution to the argument of burning ressources, especially with the excuse of it being a challenge to sit afk in 6 waves of ESO. Also, telling me to just pay some plat doesn't sit well with me.

This!
Sure there are hundreds of weapons and dozens of warframes, but most of them are MR fodder, using those as justification for this, is simply fooling oneself.

[KroneVanguard]

On 2019-06-17 at 3:13 PM, Zelmen said:

The point of NW is to get people involved in all aspects of the game. This could lead players to trying something new they have been avoiding. Just because you made all the items and refuse to make a dirt cheap one doesn't mean it doesn't belong. Anyone who is complaining about this probably has all the mats for a mote amp collecting dust.

If I avoid something, there must be a reason. Some of the challenges, I don't even take them into consideration. 😐

[(PSN)TX_CHAINSAW_81]

On 2019-06-18 at 10:54 PM, (XB1)COA Altair said:

I have 3K hours in game and there is still gear for me to forma because there are literally hundreds of weapons and frames out there.  If you have everything fully forma'ed out that means that is all you have been doing those 3600 hours and have been doing basically nothing else.  On top of this, new weapons were just released the week of the challenge that you can forma to fulfill the requirement as it was literally impossible to forma the komorex for example 2 weeks ago.  On top of that, if you have everything fully forma'ed, it isn't a waste of forma since you're likely building 1 a day and that's more then enough forma to forma out every new weapon/frame that comes out every several months.  It isn't a hard challenge.  You can buy a forma bundle for 35 platinum, and if you think that's expensive go to trade chat as it is trivial to make 35 plat in trade chat if you have a set of anything.  

I have everything that IIIIIII want formad. Period.  Right now i dont see the point in putting forma into something that idc about. I put 100+ forma into my dojo. Got all the necessary frames, weapons, companions, vehicles, and then some formad. If something worthy of forma comes along, ill forma it. I already maxed out Wisp and the new weapons. I formad wisp for Nightwave. Im just not that impressed to be spending forma on anything right now and should have a different option then to spend resources. I do the silly challenges like do a rescue mission 3x without complaint. All these MR20+ running Earth rescue just to get it done is silly but whatever. I just dont want to use resources just for the sake of it.

On 2019-06-17 at 6:56 AM, HorneySaint said:

PLEASE PLEASE !!

Remove  Gild Modular item from Night Wave . Its so dumb  and its just waste of resources . Like  I literally have  every single weapon gilded in my inventory why i am suppose to do that again 

Agreed!!

On 2019-06-17 at 5:23 PM, (PS4)TX_CHAINSAW_81 said:

Howabout grouping a couple of Nightwave challenges together but only having to choose 1 of the 2 to get the standing? For example...

Use 3 forma -OR- Complete 8 zones of ESO to get 9k standing.

I still stand by this ^