MagPrime Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, IspanoLFW said: Think about that for a moment. Where are the people getting the Plat they're selling? They're either trading for it and then selling it, meaning generally that plat is all "legal" if you will. Though they aren't allowed to sell it either way. OR, they're obtaining it the same way I described. "Bad" Plat is created when the original money used to buy it gets taken back, such as in a chargeback. All tradeable Plat in the game was paid for in some way by someone, the issue arises when said payment is reversed. So the Plat too has to be reversed, all the way down the chain it went included. Slight issue; chargeback plat doesn't stay in the game long. They don't have enough time to wait for a sale on eBay before the chargeback plat is gone, so it has to be farmed via selling Rivens and Prime sets at insanely high prices. The plat is legal, the action of selling it on eBay is not, which then sours it and gets it removed from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IspanoLFW Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, MagPrime said: Slight issue; chargeback plat doesn't stay in the game long. They don't have enough time to wait for a sale on eBay before the chargeback plat is gone, so it has to be farmed via selling Rivens and Prime sets at insanely high prices. The plat is legal, the action of selling it on eBay is not, which then sours it and gets it removed from the game. Chargebacks can be done up to 4 months after the purchase, depends on a few things, but yeah that's not "long". Once the chargeback is done, then yes, it goes away pretty quick. The point is that these are different issues if the Plat the person on eBay is selling is legal. And to be quite honest, I seriously doubt it is. But for arguments sake, let's say it is. That means DE still has the money for it. That means they can ban the seller without doing much else, except perhaps banning the buyer along with them. With chargebacks however, they actually lose money, and if they don't remove the Plat, that opens up a big loophole for people to get Plat for free with stolen cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, IspanoLFW said: Chargebacks can be done up to 4 months after the purchase, depends on a few things, but yeah that's not "long". Once the chargeback is done, then yes, it goes away pretty quick. Y-yeah, uh, once it's charged back, that makes it charge back plat. Right up until that happens, it's "legal" plat. 2 minutes ago, IspanoLFW said: The point is that these are different issues if the Plat the person on eBay is selling is legal. And to be quite honest, I seriously doubt it is. But for arguments sake, let's say it is. That means DE still has the money for it. That means they can ban the seller without doing much else, except perhaps banning the buyer along with them. With chargebacks however, they actually lose money, and if they don't remove the Plat, that opens up a big loophole for people to get Plat for free with stolen cards. And, again, once the player posts the plat up for sale on eBay, that makes it illegal plat and it's removed from the game. Like charge back plat, it's legal plat, right up until the player decides to violate DE's rules. No one is disputing that DE is losing money on the charge back though, not sure why you brought that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IspanoLFW Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, MagPrime said: Y-yeah, uh, once it's charged back, that makes it charge back plat. Right up until that happens, it's "legal" plat. And, again, once the player posts the plat up for sale on eBay, that makes it illegal plat and it's removed from the game. Like charge back plat, it's legal plat, right up until the player decides to violate DE's rules. No one is disputing that DE is losing money on the charge back though, not sure why you brought that up. Because that's the point. Removing Plat that is effectively not paid for, even at the expense of making potential innocents go negative, makes sense. It closes a loophole to prevent free plat flooding the system. A neccesary evil, if you will. But in the case of eBay, as the example, if the Plat is 100% legit the entire time, there's almost no reason to go chase down the entire chain that Plat travelled to remove it. Simply ban the seller and probably the buyer, and done. If the Plat involved does end up with a chargeback at some point, then they can follow the chain and remove it. But until then, DE got their money for the Plat, it's not stolen goods, and the person who tried to sell/buy something they have no right selling/buying, is taken care of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, IspanoLFW said: Because that's the point. Removing Plat that is effectively not paid for, even at the expense of making potential innocents go negative, makes sense. It closes a loophole to prevent free plat flooding the system. A neccesary evil, if you will. But in the case of eBay, as the example, if the Plat is 100% legit the entire time, there's almost no reason to go chase down the entire chain that Plat travelled to remove it. Simply ban the seller and probably the buyer, and done. If the Plat involved does end up with a chargeback at some point, then they can follow the chain and remove it. But until then, DE got their money for the Plat, it's not stolen goods, and the person who tried to sell/buy something they have no right selling/buying, is taken care of. It's not legal plat the second the seller decided to violate DE's rules and sell DE's premium currency for their (the players) own profit. Not sure how else to say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IspanoLFW Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, MagPrime said: It's not legal plat the second the seller decided to violate DE's rules and sell DE's premium currency for their (the players) own profit. Not sure how else to say that. You can label it however you want, it matters little. The point is what DE has to do to solve the issue. In the case of chargebacks, it HAS to be removed, due to aforementioned loophole. But if the Plat is still "legal" as in it's been paid for and not charged back, there's little reason to follow the trade chain and potentially put innocent people negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, IspanoLFW said: You can label it however you want, it matters little. The point is what DE has to do to solve the issue. In the case of chargebacks, it HAS to be removed, due to aforementioned loophole. But if the Plat is still "legal" as in it's been paid for and not charged back, there's little reason to follow the trade chain and potentially put innocent people negative. Ah, you still don't get it. Aight, have a good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IspanoLFW Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just now, MagPrime said: Ah, you still don't get it. Aight, have a good night. I do get it, I know exactly what you mean by it being "illegal" Plat. My point is it doesn't MATTER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerfinator6 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Why should *I* have to pay for someone else's idiocy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IspanoLFW Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, nerfinator6 said: Why should *I* have to pay for someone else's idiocy? So, what do you suggest DE does then? Let you keep the plat? Well that's the loophole I've been talking about. People buy Plat with stolen cards, offload it to other accounts via trading, and then they don't care if the account it was bought on gets banned due to a chargeback. DE HAS to remove it. They return the item(s) you traded for it if possible, but if you go negative, well the only other option is to leave you negative, but not banned and you have to still make it up somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclouros Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 9 hours ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said: Well, that goes without saying. "Banned" means you're forced to quit whether you want to or not. There are temporary bans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaloff95 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 To be honest this have never happened to me and ive traded regulary since they introduced it. You can never be sure but if you are unsure, cancel the trade if it feels off. But now with 2FA i dont see why it would happen at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappie Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 8 hours ago, nerfinator6 said: Why should *I* have to pay for someone else's idiocy? Do you have any form of insurance? Congratulations....you are paying for idiocy in some way shape or form. Do you pay taxes? Congratulations....you are paying for idiocy in some way shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappie Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, makaloff95 said: To be honest this have never happened to me and ive traded regulary since they introduced it. You can never be sure but if you are unsure, cancel the trade if it feels off. But now with 2FA i dont see why it would happen at all 2FA doesn't stop people with bad plat. I make a new email address and then add 2FA to a new bad account with that email address. wow...umm. 2FA is meant to minimize the chance that a legitimate account will be hijacked/stolen causing DE to spend internal resources to help recover the account and all the fallout that occurred from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)SilverSurferGuy Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Stick to small plat trades as much as you can. That way if it does happen you don’t have to pay much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)COA Altair Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 On 2019-06-19 at 8:33 AM, Cyclouros said: This sort of victimblaming really doesn't belong in a modern society. I would definately quit playing if i got banned because someone else did something wrong and they are allowed to keep whatever they bought. But i guess DE cares more about money than their players. Worse than EA. No, DE is not anywhere near EA's level. You can never spend a dime on this game and have thousands of plat. EA you're forced to buy anything they release for a game to stay relevant in that game. Yes this system they currently have with the negative plat is not that good. But the chances of this happening to you are 1 in a million. I've played the game for years and have over 30K plat. I've never seen a trade of mine reverted because someone bought my stuff with illegitimate plat and I've traded thousands upon thousands of times. Odds are it isn't going to happen to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadVoid118 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 13 hours ago, IspanoLFW said: This is a poor analogy, since credit charges don't work the same as checks. In DE's case, they already have the money, the check already cashed successfully. It then got reversed later, ie a chargeback. And chargebacks, depending on the circumstance, can happen up to 3-4 months after the original charge. People would be ok with not being able to trade/use plat for 3-4 months after buying it, right? That has nothing to do with my analogy. DE, effectively, prevents people from earning more money (plat) except by buying it using real money in order to pay off their debt. Again, same analogy, it's like a bank preventing you from earning money unless you work for them to pay off your debt. That's stupid. How the debt occurs is completely irrelevant to the point. You're saddled with debt and can only pay through one specific method that is clearly punishing the victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclouros Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 43 minutes ago, (XB1)COA Altair said: Odds are it isn't going to happen to you. Probably not but that's not much of a comfort for those that it did happen to. I am actually capable of putting myself in others shoes and understand how they are effected by something that i'm not effected by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)COA Altair Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cyclouros said: Probably not but that's not much of a comfort for those that it did happen to. I am actually capable of putting myself in others shoes and understand how they are effected by something that i'm not effected by. Nowhere did I say I don't feel sympathy for those it has happened too. If you don't want it to happen to happen to you the solution is simple. Sit on platinum you get via trade for a few days before using it in case it's fraudulent. But, again, the odds of this happening to you are 1 in hundreds of thousands to millions. Should the system be changed? Yes. Will it be changed? I'm skeptical. If you're so against the system in place right now that bans people with negative plat, speak with your wallet/don't give DE money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclouros Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, (XB1)COA Altair said: Nowhere did I say I don't feel sympathy for those it has happened too. If you don't want it to happen to happen to you the solution is simple. Sit on platinum you get via trade for a few days before using it in case it's fraudulent. But, again, the odds of this happening to you are 1 in hundreds of thousands to millions. Should the system be changed? Yes. Will it be changed? I'm skeptical. If you're so against the system in place right now that bans people with negative plat, speak with your wallet/don't give DE money. You are correct, i will be doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)deathwolfclaw666 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 You can't really avoid the scams if you want to keep trading. There are however a few steps my friends and myself followed during our time on PC, that being To sit on Plat for a few weeks or just make sure not to buy items that cut into the plat you recently received. To keep a record of transactions with included screenshots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: Great, I was about to buy the next PA, but I don't like how they handle this.. what should I do now? Make a forum thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappie Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: Great, I was about to buy the next PA, but I don't like how they handle this.. what should I do now? You were not going to buy a PA...you are just using that as an excuse to justify playing the game without spending $. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bananacat89 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) Don't make trades with people with names like "12475623" "QgERGF" or any other random bot names. These are usually peoples alt throw away accounts specifically made to launder bad plat. Do some research on stuff you are buying or selling. Do a mini background check on the player if you are skeptical on warframe market and in game. Always trust your first instinct and if something seems fishy its better to be safe then sorry. Especially if lots of plat is on the line. The only time I have had a problem was with people with weird names off warframe market. They were far and few. Only happened 2 times in 4 years but both those times I was dumb enough to sell to a player with a bot name. Both those times it came back to bite me in the butt. Lost my items and the plat from the sale. It is safe to say, it is in your best interest to just add those players with bot names to your iggy list. Edited June 20, 2019 by bananacat89 spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaloff95 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 8 hours ago, Chappie1975 said: 2FA doesn't stop people with bad plat. I make a new email address and then add 2FA to a new bad account with that email address. wow...umm. 2FA is meant to minimize the chance that a legitimate account will be hijacked/stolen causing DE to spend internal resources to help recover the account and all the fallout that occurred from it. ah okay my misunderstanding. hmm i guess in the end then theres nothing we can do really, unless DE somehow figures out a way to filter suspicious plat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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