How to avoid scams?

[kikasnoob]

If you going to sell something for a lot of plat, check the buyers profile for hours played. 

Most people don’t want to loose anything that has taken them a long time to acquire so Selling something for a large amount to someone who has spent 700 hours in game is less risky as opposed to selling it to someone with 50-100 hours.

one thing I been doing is to only trade rivens for rivens and if I want boosters I’ll sell something for 40-100 plat. This way if I do unfortunately receive bad plat it won’t bite too hard.

another thing I do is take screenshots of all my trades. (It’s just the way I am)

 

[Educated_Beast]

Except sometimes the "victim" can be in on the scam.  There is no way to know.  

Just take screenshots of big trades and wait a couple weeks to spend plat.  Between those two things, I think support would be reasonable.  

 

[Ottofyre]

1 hour ago, KIREEK said:

My sugestions are simple, retain the platinum in your account for a few weeks before deciding on spending it, don't trade with clearly low MR players with a bunch of letters and/or numbers at random and enjoy the game.

This is the best advice I've seen. 

Also, for people saying "don't victim blame" - In the real world you do not have the right to keep stolen property that you have come to possess. And anyone who thinks there is a simple solution to this issue doesn't fully understand the complexities of the problem.

[DeadVoid118]

There's no reasonable method to avoid getting scammed. Digital Extremes has decided to punish other victims as well as the scammer, which I find distasteful but that is how it is. The topic is on how to avoid scams, or the punishments brought with scams. So, in order to do so, trade in bulk (meaning make many trades with many different people) and keep a sizeable positive balance that is larger than any two (or ten) transactions within the last year. Ten is probably a bit overkill, but it helps assure your account won't go into the negatives.

Should you find yourself in the negatives, you may petition DE as others have said to exchange purchased items for platinum to make your account have a positive balance again without spending money. You can do this with things like cosmetics, unused purchased forma, and so on. Pretty much anything bought with platinum and unused/cosmetic can be traded in.

Do note that I have not encountered this issue myself. I'm merely repeating what others have said, as I have only recently started trading (I was previously living off a sizeable amount purchased with a daily discount). While others might call it paranoia, it's no such thing to be prepared in the event of the horrendous, so long as we know it can reasonably occur. I'd liken keeping a stock of positive platinum to wearing a seatbelt despite being the best driver in the world. No matter how good you are, it can still happen to you.

1 hour ago, _Kiro said:

Rivens indeed are the biggest danger with a lot of the better rolls going for above 1000 plat, which for a free player isn't as easy to get. 

I agree with this though, I've been taking pictures of my trades for a year or something to prevent this from happening.

You can perfectly play the game without trading though, it's a bigger grind but it's doable.

Slots. You need to buy slots. I mean, sure, you can wait for Nightwave and other events to give you your pittance of slots, but it won't ever be enough for any hoarders (plus, there's a huge amount of weapons and even if you gained more slots than DE released weapons it would still take forever to get enough slots for half the weapons in the game, let alone the fact that this isn't the case and you will find more weapons being released than slots). In the early game, you might have enough slots for one good build and a constant rotating of the other slots for mastery rank. Maybe two if you were smart and knew how to spend your free platinum. However, now you have to wait for events to give you slots, or watch PrimeTime, or stuff like that, which can take ages (months to a full year for the right slot). If you want to remain F2P while getting slots within a reasonable amount of time, trading is the way to go.

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

Trade is reversed so the culprit doesn't keep anything.
Further DE is willing to work with you to get your plat balance above zero depending on what you bought.

For instance: If you bought cosmetics DE will undo those purchases, remove the cosmetics and adjust your balance accordingly.
Bought unused forma?  Same thing.
They just can't do it for things you've used (boosters, applied forma, bought weapons/frames, etc.)

The victim has to pay only for what they bought.
Think about this: You trade for 3K plat and go on a spending spree and buy, oh I don't know, few dozen cosmetics, frames, weapons, full packs, and so on.
The person you traded with does a chargeback, which immediately removes the money from DE (and with next to no viable recourse for getting it back) and gives them a fine.
Should DE just let you keep what you bought?  Especially since they got no money frome it, and were slapped by a fine which costs them money, as well as a demarkation against their name?

DE wants the money for the items you bought.
And they are willing to work with you to fix the negative balance if possible.

Why should you get to keep the thousands of plat worth of items?

Think about it this way:
You basically bought a bunch of items with a bounced check.  You have two options: Pay back what you owe or give it back if its possible.

In the real world, let's say you traded a fancy car for a fancy check. You go on a spending spree, buying all sorts of clothes and such. The check bounces. The bank does not prevent you from entering it without the money to make your balance positive. The bank gives a fine to the person who's check bounced, not the person cashing it in. Furthermore, the victim now has legal recourse to pursue the other and get their money's worth back. You (hopefully) get your car back (or simply the money), which you can then sell to someone else to pay off your negative balance. Now, there are cases where people just run out and you don't get anything back. However, the bank doesn't prevent you from earning money because of a negative balance, unlike DE which prevents further trading by halting your account until you pay real money.

[Singrave]

Tenno Scam!©

[o0Despair0o]

"How to avoid scams?"

 

By using common sense.

And don't forget the quote, "Nothing in life is free". Don't trade for empty promises. Trade for hard cash (or... plat, you know what I mean) or not at all.

[--DSP--Jetstream]

by having common sense, and most people claiming having his "friend" get negative plat are mostly just people trying to rmt their plat for real money, get caught, then make these threads on forums. People playing victim, its the warframe version of "i was wrongly banned" threads on other online game forums.
Sure you just spend all the 10000 plat you got from trading and get negative, suuure. Get real people, see the other side of the story.

[(NSW)Lobosandia]

3 hours ago, Chewarette said:

I'd say S#&$ happens. If you're really worrying about something, just don't spend the  you earned right away. You'll only get banned if DE "removes" the "false" platinum and that puts you in negative balance.

But to be honest... That's like saying "I've read a news about someone getting ran over while crossing the street, I'll actively avoid crossing the street from now on". Doesn't really make sense.

If you buy a stolen car and sell it afterwards, there is a chance the money you earned from this sale will be taken from you and you'll be prosecuted, probably. And nothing here guarantees you that the "criminal" didn't get punished as well. The "victime" only has to make his plat balance positive, the "criminal" is probably perma-banned.

Except for the fact that DE is making a profit off of the transaction overall because the stolen plat is being replaced by a new purchase. 

 

1. Person buys plat.

2. Scammer steals plat, sells it.

3. Person who bought stolen plat trades with unknowing person.

4. Unknowing person is banned and plat is confiscated. Unknowing person has to buy plat to be unbanned.

DE profits from two separate instances of plat being bought. They will probably also make extra profit because, say, someone has -1 plat. They have to buy 150 plat to make up the difference.

 

The only solution to this is to not trade with people for plat, which is unrealistic, but it's along the same vein of logic as abstinence.

Also, you can just avoid suspect people. View their profile and see how much they play, etc. You just use common sense.

[SynLimited]

My only big concern here is the length of time that can lapse between acquiring the bad plat and it finally being removed. Folks are saying 'don't spend it for a week or so' when not that long ago there was a thread in Players Helping Players where someone hit a large negative plat balance...six months after the trade. Call me crazy but don't most places have a certain timeframe for you to be responsible? While I don't like the idea that if I get scammed I ultimately end up being responsible for the debt I can abide by it except that if I sell a Riven in June I don't suddenly want to be in the negative plat come February.

[M3tallius]

Let me tell you from my second account here, that if you get scammed via chargeback, they will not, under any circumstances reverse said chargeback. First time I ever traded anything in WF and I got hit with a significant chargeback. Didn't think anything about it as MR20+ frequently have more plat they have sense (myself included), but when you start selling Rivens, from personal experience, you're setting yourself up for chargeback fraud. It's crazy how bad it is. Never sold anything again, nor will I. I just routinely cycle givens into the trash now. /sigh

[(PSN)madmonney]

5 hours ago, Chewarette said:

If you buy a stolen car and sell it afterwards, there is a chance the money you earned from this sale will be taken from you and you'll be prosecuted, probably. And nothing here guarantees you that the "criminal" didn't get punished as well. The "victime" only has to make his plat balance positive, the "criminal" is probably perma-banned.

This analogy highlights the issue with DE's system. There are ways to check if a car is indeed stolen or not. Proof of insurance, VIN number, Car Title, e.g. But when selling on the market you are going in blind and have no way to know if that plat is legit or not. In some states it's even illegal to sell cars (whether you own them or not) without a dealership involved. So I feel it's highly unethical to be punished if there isn't anything you can do in this situation besides just not sell anything to anyone or hope no one you meet is a scammer.

Edited June 19, 2019 by (PS4)madmonney
Typo

[GrandLompus]

I'm assuming here that when you sell stuff and receive bad plat, DE is going to take away the plat but also gives you back the item.  Right?  Haven't had this happen to me, but it's what I think I picked up earlier in this thread.

In that case, it's actually a fair thing for DE to do.  Fair wrt balancing the rights of and repercussions to both parties (Tenno and DE alike)

Consider the following scenarios:

1. Bad actor introduces bad plat, buys items with it from unknowing Tenno, Tenno hasn't spent more than what his plat balance was before
   • DE permabanned the bad actor
   • Plat is removed from Tenno
   • Tenno gets his item back
   • Conclusion: the situation is restored to what it was before the trade, except for causing a disillusioned Tenno
   • DE gets to cought up any card refund fees though
2. Bad actor introduces bad plat, buys items with it from unknowing Tenno, Tenno does spend more than what his plat balance was before
   • DE permabanned the bad actor
   • Plat is removed from Tenno, who is now in the negative and also gets banned
   • Tenno gets his item back though, and he gets to keep the items he bought
   • Conclusion: the situation is somewhat restored, apart from the Tenno being banned until he forks over cash to compensate for his shopping spree
   • DE gets to cought up any card refund fees though
3. Bad actor introduces bad plat, buys items with it from cooperating bad Tenno or an alt account
   • Again the bans, but this time both are justified
   • DE gets to cought up any card refund fees though

1. is just bad luck and a jump scare, so not of any real importance, except for DE losing $ (and reputation).

However, when most people complain about 2. they seem to overlook that 3. is also an option.  How is DE supposed to recognize 2. from 3.?  If DE were more lenient in situation 2 (at least, more lenient in public; who knows how soft they are in practice?), then that would make using stolen plat on alt accounts far less risky, which might result in far more bad plat to enter the market.  This in turn would undermine DE's profitability, which in the long run can only be detrimental to both DE and thus us fair-playing Tenno.  Maybe.  Just thinking out loud here.

However, this situation could be improved if in 2. the banned Tenno could just let DE remove the items he bought with the bad plat instead.  But then again they might have already been consumed....  And it also opens up the possibility for setting up a bad plat account + alt 'regular' account to try things out risk-free on the regular account.

If DE were to treat 2. by not reclaiming the plat, then that would also be that way for 3., which would open the door wide for bad actors to just try it out and see when they'll get caught (if at all if the fraud doesn't surface), with no repercussions at all for their alt account.  Hell, it'll even be a nice bad plat laundry machine, opening the door to even more fraud on the platform.

So: Tenno and DE get f@#$ed either way; I think this is just a fair compromise, since DE already swallows any card refund fees (which are relatively quite steep if only small plat amounts were purchased).

[trst]

When there is a chargeback DE loses more than the "value" of the platinum as the card company that the chargeback was issued through also fines DE for the transaction. Thus everytime something like this happens DE outright loses money because of it.

And since they can't confirm for certain if the victim wasn't in on the whole transaction the safer route is to penalize them as well. If they didn't then what stops someone from doing a chargeback on a throwaway account after trading to their main account and ends up keeping what they acquired fraudulently?

That kind of loophole would cause far more people to attempt this very strategy to get items for free by being their own victim. Meaning DE would lose more and more money without a way to recuperate.

 

However the real problem here relative to other games where this can happen is that platinum can change hands many times between the initial transaction and can be spend on items that are technically non-refundable.

If you ended up with 1000 fraudulent platinum and traded 100 to ten different people before it got removed from your account then what's DE supposed to do? You end up with this entire branching tree of trades that would all need to get reversed in order to undo the entire transaction and get the original victim back to zero plat.

 

This entire issue is DE covering themselves from getting scammed. And while it is an issue for innocent players that get caught up in it it's also an issue that seems grossly over-exaggerated for how rarely it actually happens. If you do lose your account from this and it's entirely through no fault of your own then you may want to consider playing the lottery.

[Ham_Grenabe]

Avoid big trades - nothing over, say, 200 plat (that way, you can - in the event that it's still a scam - recover your account for a small amount of real money) - and as the chat window says, never agree to a trade for anything other than actual items. No promises, no assurances, no "let me try this outs." 

[(XBOX)Calliber]

Same concept as fake money.  

You go to the bank to make loan payment with cash, hand them $100 bill you got selling some items at a garage sale, they see it's fake, confiscate it and call police who then try to figure out where you got it from.  Now you're out $100 you thought you had, the items you sold to get it, and still need to pay the loan.

[(XBOX)Calliber]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

How do I know if the plat I receive is hard? 🤔

Take your nearest Fragor and smash it....if it doesn't break it's hard 😛

[MagPrime]

8 hours ago, Oriade said:

I recently read a forum post on Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/app/230410/discussions/0/1742227264189077980/

where a guy claims his friend was banned for selling something to a scammer who got his platinum against the TOS.

I have only traded like once or twice, but was unaware about this weird logic from DE. 

If someone somehow gets platinum against TOS (whatever that means) and then uses that platinum to buy something, the seller gets banned?

 

How is one able to ever know that someones platinum is legit? 

I have accumulated a bunch of rivens that I want to sell, but so far was just to lazy to do it.Now, I don´t know if I even dare to trade. 

 

So, how to avoid scams?  

 

Black market plat isn't the same as a scam.

Avoiding black market plat; don't trade more than 100p at a time, especially from players you don't know or are low MR.  Most black market types aren't going to invest time in actually playing the game, they'll do the bare minimum to gain access and go for as much as they can, as fast as they can.  So you have someone below MR8, no event scores, horrible kill stats, etc. and they want more than 100p for something, I wouldn't risk it.  No matter how sweet the deal is, losing your account isn't worth it. 

Personally, I don't trade for plat with someone I don't know.  I've spent far too much time and money on my account for it to be held ransom by a awful system like DE has. 

Avoiding a scam; always check your plat amounts and double check with other players and/or the market sites.  If the seller is trying to hype you up by saying it's a limited time offer, or they have more people willing to pay more, or they're doing you a favor, don't fall for it.  

Take the time to check your resources before hitting the Trade button. 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

11 hours ago, Oriade said:

But how long until I should spend?  1 week, month, year?  

What is DEs recommendations?  Just #*!% you, give us your money?.. Sounds like it from you guys.  

 

Just how often does this happen?   Your street analogy is different on a street in a small town or the highway.

Even if its just 1% chance, would you gamble your whole account on that 1%?   

How long? How long will a bank honour a credit chargeback? Because that's the answer to your question: "highly variable, from situation to situation". 

Cover your own butt. Just like in the real world, keep records of all your trades, inclusive of all communications. That way if you ever find yourself in a bind, accused of being involved in nefarious activities, you can present the full record of your trades to support and show that you are 100% above board. 

Or hop over to console. 

9 hours ago, bibmobello said:

Sorry to say this but if this is true, this is pure sh*t. The buyer it's not responsible if someone else pay with fake platinum. DE has its database, they should only check the transaction and they must give back the item traded and block the scammer, It's easy.  

Luckily i never come across a such problem but if this happens to me you should hear the screams in Canada...

Here's a hint, both the buyer and the seller can be involved in a scam. That's why both get frozen while they try to figure out who was involved. 

[IspanoLFW]

11 hours ago, Cyclouros said:

DE most likely have more money than the victim and can handle losing... well nothing. But they instead elect to ban victims and hold their accounts hostage.

That's not the issue. If they let the "victim" keep the plat, know what happens? The people using stolen credit cards and/or doing chargebacks now have a way to effectively get free plat. That's what happens if the "bad" plat is not removed.

[IspanoLFW]

9 hours ago, Keylan118 said:

 

In the real world, let's say you traded a fancy car for a fancy check. You go on a spending spree, buying all sorts of clothes and such. The check bounces. The bank does not prevent you from entering it without the money to make your balance positive. The bank gives a fine to the person who's check bounced, not the person cashing it in. Furthermore, the victim now has legal recourse to pursue the other and get their money's worth back. You (hopefully) get your car back (or simply the money), which you can then sell to someone else to pay off your negative balance. Now, there are cases where people just run out and you don't get anything back. However, the bank doesn't prevent you from earning money because of a negative balance, unlike DE which prevents further trading by halting your account until you pay real money.

 

This is a poor analogy, since credit charges don't work the same as checks. In DE's case, they already have the money, the check already cashed successfully. It then got reversed later, ie a chargeback. And chargebacks, depending on the circumstance, can happen up to 3-4 months after the original charge.

People would be ok with not being able to trade/use plat for 3-4 months after buying it, right?

Edited June 20, 2019 by IspanoLFW

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

13 hours ago, Cyclouros said:

This sort of victimblaming really doesn't belong in a modern society. I would definately quit playing if i got banned because someone else did something wrong and they are allowed to keep whatever they bought.

But i guess DE cares more about money than their players. Worse than EA.

Well, that goes without saying. "Banned" means you're forced to quit whether you want to or not.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Someone explain where

'fake' or 'bad' plat comes from?

 

its it only from people buying plat then doing a creditcard chargeback? if that's the case why doesn't DE contest the chargeback. do a

back-charge-back?

 

is it from some kind of server hack to alter in-game account plat balance? if that's the case... I'd have to ask DE to fix their security...

 

 

[IspanoLFW]

2 hours ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

Someone explain where

'fake' or 'bad' plat comes from?

 

its it only from people buying plat then doing a creditcard chargeback? if that's the case why doesn't DE contest the chargeback. do a

back-charge-back?

 

That's exactly what it is, chargebacks. The issue however is that the credit card being used is often stolen, or the account said card is on is compromised, meaning DE would lose any dispute since the original owner did not authorize it.

Edited June 20, 2019 by IspanoLFW

[MagPrime]

13 minutes ago, IspanoLFW said:

That's exactly what it is, chargebacks. The issue however is that the credit card being used is often stolen, or the account said card is on is compromised, meaning DE would lose any dispute since the original owner did not authorize it.

That's not the only way.  Scoot over to eBay, you'll see people selling plat.  That's "bad" plat because the seller farmed up the plat and is selling it for real money, of which DE doesn't get any. 

[IspanoLFW]

Just now, MagPrime said:

That's not the only way.  Scoot over to eBay, you'll see people selling plat.  That's "bad" plat because the seller farmed up the plat and is selling it for real money, of which DE doesn't get any. 

Think about that for a moment. Where are the people getting the Plat they're selling? They're either trading for it and then selling it, meaning generally that plat is all "legal" if you will. Though they aren't allowed to sell it either way. OR, they're obtaining it the same way I described. "Bad" Plat is created when the original money used to buy it gets taken back, such as in a chargeback. All tradeable Plat in the game was paid for in some way by someone, the issue arises when said payment is reversed. So the Plat too has to be reversed, all the way down the chain it went included.