Daily standing limit

[Cikaras]

Hello, warframe is a good game, i've been playing for a long time, and i recently got back into playing on ps4, prior to this i was on PC.
The one thing that annoys me is the daily standing limit. I want to buy hildryn BP, and for that i need 2nd rank with lil duck. I am rank 1 and i need to get gyromag systems to advance to get hildryn. to get gyromags i need to be max rank with vox solaris, and this will take me about a week because of the daily standing limit. This is absolute bullS#&$. Can anyone explain to me how this daily standing limit is a good thing? atm i am furious becasue of this one #*!%ing thing.

[Voltage]

If there was no standing limit, you would blow through content much faster.

[Shinobu_Scorpion]

As Voltage said, it's to keep players from knocking out that content immediately. I will also say that the standing limit does increase with MR, so it will get better.

[Drachnyn]

Locking Profit Taker (and by that Vox Solaris) behind max rank fortuna was a bad idea. If you are around mr 12 or so it will take you more than a full month of capping standing, which you cant even just farm passively like you can with the normal syndicates.

Preventing you from going through all content on the first day is one thing, but the absolute S#&$show that is max rank fortuna is way too much.

[Cikaras]

1 hour ago, Drachnyn said:

Locking Profit Taker (and by that Vox Solaris) behind max rank fortuna was a bad idea. If you are around mr 12 or so it will take you more than a full month of capping standing, which you cant even just farm passively like you can with the normal syndicates.

Preventing you from going through all content on the first day is one thing, but the absolute S#&$show that is max rank fortuna is way too much.

Exacely, i would love to see this changed, or making so that you can get gyromag systems another way.

[SnowWarFr]

3 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

Locking Profit Taker (and by that Vox Solaris) behind max rank fortuna was a bad idea. If you are around mr 12 or so it will take you more than a full month of capping standing, which you cant even just farm passively like you can with the normal syndicates.

Preventing you from going through all content on the first day is one thing, but the absolute S#&$show that is max rank fortuna is way too much.

 

1 hour ago, Cikaras said:

Exacely, i would love to see this changed, or making so that you can get gyromag systems another way.

Well, the profit taker isn't easy anyway. That fight is more geared towards late-game players anyhow.

[Drachnyn]

vor 52 Minuten schrieb SnowWarFr:

Well, the profit taker isn't easy anyway. That fight is more geared towards late-game players anyhow.

It ends up taking a month for people who are already geared enough to do the fight. Being in the MR 12 to 16 area doesnt tell us anything about how "late game" a person is. All it means is that they didnt do the boring MR fodder grind.

[Cikaras]

47 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

It ends up taking a month for people who are already geared enough to do the fight. Being in the MR 12 to 16 area doesnt tell us anything about how "late game" a person is. All it means is that they didnt do the boring MR fodder grind.

if you are even mr 10 you should know know warframe works and you should be able to atleast try, im in mr12, and i dont focus on getting my mr up because there is almost no point past mr 12 apart from few weapons and rivens. If it is endgame or not, it drop a resource that you need to get to hildryn, i already got her parts and built them, this should be enough to access the blueprint. Being forced to grind a week or more to get to is is absurd.

[Drachnyn]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Cikaras:

if you are even mr 10 you should know know warframe works and you should be able to atleast try, im in mr12, and i dont focus on getting my mr up because there is almost no point past mr 12 apart from few weapons and rivens. If it is endgame or not, it drop a resource that you need to get to hildryn, i already got her parts and built them, this should be enough to access the blueprint. Being forced to grind a week or more to get to is is absurd.

It's about a month without missing a single day for you and yes that is absurdly long.

[Cikaras]

so what? this is the end? mindless and senseless grind for so long? I dont, I cant accept this

 

 

[Oreades]

7 hours ago, Voltage said:

If there was no standing limit, you would blow through content much faster.

In fairness, numbers are hardly content? Does having a Higher Osteron standing improve the bounty experience? Nope, a T4 bounty is a T4 bounty either way. 

Tho theoretically speaking if standing limits truly had an effect on the rate at which people consumed content then all the high MR players should have lower caps than starting players. That way they would be able to "enjoy" the content longer. But we don't because that would be horrible as what we are experiencing at that point isn't content it's grind, the content portion has long since run its course. 

Plain and simple the standing limits are a looming punishment for people with low MR to "encourage" them to pay attention to the MR system. 

 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Oreades

[SnowWarFr]

Just now, Oreades said:

In fairness, numbers are hardly content? Does having a Higher Osteron standing improve the bounty experience? Nope, a T4 bounty is a T4 bounty either way. 

Tho theoretically speaking if standing limits truly had an effect on the rate at which people consumed content then all the high MR players should have lower caps than starting players. That way they would be able to "enjoy" the content longer. But we don't because that would be horrible. 

Plain and simple the standing limits are a looming punishment for people with low MR to "encourage" them to pay attention to the MR system. 

I get your problem and sure it can be annoying. Attempts to reach maximum rank to Syndicates and etc's would be stretched for weeks, perhaps months. At a first glance, this is a discouraging mechanics. However, there can be consequences to this idea. I will bring some examples, and I do concede to the matter that they seem very extreme; however, I merely just want to bring the idea of what could happen:

• An Excalibur 250hr with an Imperator could find him/herself in a party trying to farm The Profit-Taker with a squad of Corvases
• Completion of the entire content of the game starting now can be diminished from eight months to four months
• The idea of increasing a player's mastery rank becomes arbitrary and hardly anyone would do it anymore after MR 14

You said that "Plain and simple the standing limits are a looming punishment for people with low MR to "encourage" them to pay attention to the MR system." On the contrary, I believe that without the standing limits, people with low MR would hardly pay attention to them unless they're working for [Tigris Prime]. After that, no one wants to bother other that OCD's sake. Mastery Rank, for the most part, would be considered blunt and, assuming you care about the Mastery Rank Mechanic, you wouldn't want such system to become as useless as Booben.

7 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

Locking Profit Taker (and by that Vox Solaris) behind max rank fortuna was a bad idea. If you are around mr 12 or so it will take you more than a full month of capping standing, which you cant even just farm passively like you can with the normal syndicates.

Preventing you from going through all content on the first day is one thing, but the absolute S#&$show that is max rank fortuna is way too much.

What is your recommendation then? Should the gate be lowered to Rank 4 or 3? We must also consider gating people who's archguns are not ready for the Profit Taker as well.

[Cikaras]

i dont care about profit taker, the thing is that the resource to progress with another syndicate is locked behind maxing out another syndicate, that is the problem, you cant get it unless you have max rank. if they allowed another way to get that resource it would be an improvement and the problem would be solved. That is why i created this thread

 

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

8 hours ago, Voltage said:

If there was no standing limit, you would blow through content much faster.

What is wrong with letting people play the game at their own pace? There's no way to bypass the daily limit with platinum, so it's not like DE is getting anything out of this. 

[Oreades]

39 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

What is wrong with letting people play the game at their own pace? There's no way to bypass the daily limit with platinum, so it's not like DE is getting anything out of this. 

They kinda sorta are because it gets people to actively play that much longer. 

The problem  being that they are skirting that fine line where content becomes grind and in some cases it becomes grind-2-grind. The content having long since been consumed, replaced with the grind that becomes it's own meta game for the devs of spreading that grind so razor thin as to get them to the next injection of actual content without breaking their players. 

Content is always content but grind is only sometimes content. 

To draw a real world analogy (like those ever work), think about a hamburger. You can make a hamburger out of a really high quality cut of meat but it's going to be expensive and there isn't going to be much, tha'ts the content. What you can do is add in some filler to spread that out so you get more hamburgers out of the quality cut that are still pretty darn good, that's the grind. At that point the grind is still balanced as such that it can be considered part of the content. However there comes a point where you have pumped so much filler into the ground beef that you've started with that its mostly pink slime and no one is going to eat it. That is the point where grind has long since stopped being content. 

It's kinda subjective and they need to play to the median because there will always be people who will either simply accept whatever DE serves without question and people who will reject anything that they perceive to be even remotely tasking. Tho neither of those groups is likely large enough to carry the game as a whole. 

 

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

Sorry I don't accept food analogies. 

[Cikaras]

I feel like you guys are forgetting the point of this thread, the resource taht you cant obtain...

 

[(XBOX)Shodian]

12 hours ago, Cikaras said:

I feel like you guys are forgetting the point of this thread, the resource taht you cant obtain...

 

You can obtain it, it just will take you some time. So until when why don't you: increase your mastery rank so you can get more standing, farm for crystals and fish to trade for standing, visit Ticker and buy her bonds to trade in for standing or to save to rank up later.

Or you could farm for prime parts, sell them for platinum and then just buy her from the market.

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

The standing limit promotes actualy getting higher MR and always moving forward and blocks players from going to quickly.Why would anyone get to those super high Mastery ranks is you could get infinite standing and blow through the game? It protects th players from playing until their eyes bleed and makes them take a break as well if they want to make their progress as effeciently as possible as well to boot! Either way this is a free to play game and other free to playes are far more insidious with their systems so you should be thankful their really is no paywall in warframe unless you count slots which you can trade for plat as wel ao that aint really an issue now is it?

[Cikaras]

I can get to the standing limit in 20 mins, and then its over, i have to wait, im lvling my mastey but it also takes S#&$ ton of time crafting weapons and frames. Buying hildryn for plat is reetarded...

[Steel_Rook]

Personally, I feel that Daily/Weekly progression caps are a good idea overall. They allow developers to balance progression fairly leniently so players with less time and less optimal builds can still participate, without simultaneously allowing the fully min/maxed high-level players from blowing through all of the new content in an afternoon. Without caps (or when caps are set too high), progression has to be balanced around the fastest players, which leaves slower players all but unable to participate, facing a massive unfun grind. I'd argue that the excessively high Daily Focus cap is a perfect example of this, creating a progression loop that some can blast through in a few minutes while others couldn't even hope to reach across an entire day.

I'd go one further, in fact, and argue that Nightwave itself would benefit from having a Weekly Standing cap. If we had one, DE could give us two, three, four times the challenges they give us now, cap us to the same weekly Standing. This way, we could pick which challenges to do, which to skip and still end up playing as efficiently as the game will actually permit us. Nightwave standing per week is already capped by the available missions, so this would change nothing but add a bit more choice.

Personally, I prefer capped design in all aspects. Unlimited progression is always going to cause issues, because you'll run into no-lifers like myself who can take vacation time and put 8 hours a day, 7 days a week into the game and destroy all semblance of balance while STILL feeling like we missed out because "I could have done more!" You can't balance progression for this kind of active participation because that would exclude nearly everyone else, but you equally can't NOT balance for it else your content doesn't last. As such, capping progression per given unit of time solves most of these issues. Players are discouraged from no-lifing the game, we're encouraged to take part in a variety of activities as those all have independent caps, slower players can still do decent progress... Worst case scenario, a player with a lot of time on their hands might run out of stuff to do, but I feel that's a small price to pay for a generally robust system.

With all of that said, caps wouldn't be such an issue if Fortuna's progression weren't so horribly designed. Locking a Warframe behind two levels of progression with a Syndicate that you need 5 levels of progression with another Syndicate to really do anything with is asinine and pointless. Orb Heists have no business being locked behind Rank 5 of Solaris United, there's nothing in them which requires Old Mate. Lock them behind maybe Rank 1 or Rank 2 just so you can argue SU trust the player and just let the players run the sodding heists. The Solaris United grind is one of Warframe's least justified grinds, and a naked attempt to stretch insufficient content out. Caps wouldn't be an issue if Solaris United / Vox Solaris progression were actually done well.

[Godzilla853]

I would like the standing limit to be a soft cap and not a hard cap so you can still gain standing but maybe less or have the standing regen.

[(PSN)Valaois]

On 2019-07-20 at 8:08 AM, Voltage said:

If there was no standing limit, you would blow through content much faster.

Honestly, at this point I can't see myself enjoying the content because the grind has ruined it for me. After leaving Warframe for 2 years and returning, I started getting into Cetus factions and thought it was pretty dope, then I quickly realized how much time would be wasted because of the daily standing caps. Any chance of enjoyment has been sapped, sucked dry and all that's left is daily grinding that feels more like a chore than playing a game for fun. It feels like I'm grinding just to reach more grinding, I know I'm progressing, very slowly, but it doesn't feel rewarding at all to reach the next rank. The "Ah **** here we go again" meme fits Warframe standing caps perfectly. Just feels like I'm working to reach a peak and look back to question myself whether it was actually worth it. Doing the bounties was neat at first, but it went downhill extremely fast because of standing caps and faction progression. I thought Cetus was visually beautiful at first, but now I can't stand going there because I'm constantly reminded of the grinding I need to do lol.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Back when fortuna came out. "WE HAVE TO HIT MAX RANK JUST TO DO THE THING?! THIS IS B***S*** DE, what the hell?" now all the people who were Pizzedoff Prime have grinded it off "no no chap it's quite okay there is nothing to be upset about *sips hypocritea with pinkie finger up*"
 

Spoiler

Anyway, if there were no daily limits people would just grind for hours and hours and hours when they have free time on ESO to complete all the schools and unlock all the waybounds.... instead i think it's like............ two months or so of grinding off your daily maximum to be able to equip a school and all way bounds maxed off?... it takes for bloody ever and if you have literally anything else in your life it's going to take four times as long. right now i can equip all but two of the waybounds and still have my energy replenish dash... all i have left to grind off are armor bonuses.... sure in theory this "extends the fun and the gameplay".... in reality if i want to get all this stuff unlocked ever i have to put a focus on it and as restricted as my time in game is, it means im missing out on all the fun things i'd rather be doing just so i can unlock my full potential and be able to do those fun things more effectively at some point in the future...

 Mostly I'm trying to supermanify my operator because the nightwave is going to start doing "operator only missions"... They're starting off with spy missions which is actually kinda cool but i expect it will expand from there.

 

Edited July 22, 2019 by (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx

[Cikaras]

well its been a while, and im almost at old mate, few more days of this pain... but because i had to grind for so long, i lost the excitement of unlocking other stuff. I build rhino p and got latron p with amazing riven but it just does not feel fun anymore for some reason, maybe im burnt out of the daily standing grind. ik i can buy most of the standing with bonds but i still need to do couple of missions becasue im saving up for next rank and stuff. Anyways, my opinion is same, the grind if too long and now having it almost completed i can say that it was like beating a dead horse, maybe fun at first, but it became tedious and boreing after a while. Now after i build hildryn i have no idea what im going to do next, all of my goals are reached, and i was supposed to reach em with hildryn, or i wanted atleast...