CEGenius Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Nobody likes cheaters. Its not fun to play when somebody is breaking the rules. And banning cheaters is good for community but I think there is better way to handle this problem. Just do not let people log in if the files were changed. That way you won't let cheaters live an easy life time and save all other people from ban for using some overlay or optimization tuner or smth. Just banning all who use third party programs is not effective IMO. Cheaters will just create another account trying to use your incomlete ban system. And people banned for "grey area" soft will send tickets to support for unban. By changing this system you save time for your players (also donations money) and support staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagernator22663 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 What cheaters ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteMarker Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 You accepted the ToS and EULA. You accepted that you are not allowed to use third party tools. And now you make this thread. Seems legit as Hek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathalio Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Did you met cheaters recently on warframe ? I never really saw one in PVE (but players with macros), I only saw some in conclave a while ago but then DE banned them and fixed it. Is there any reason to cheat in a PVE, in warframe ? I don't see any cheating problems in warframe so... Anyway they don't ban players who use third party programs, they ban players who use third party programs that interacts with warframe datas like all cheat engines do. (If that wasn't the case things like discord overlay would be bannable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnyn Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 You need to be more specific than "cheaters bad m'kay". If warframe detects you meddling with game files or anything you're straight up banned forever until 2035. Just forgetting to close cheat engine when you were using it for a different game can be the end of your account. So I'm not sure about the point of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanholic7 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 23 минуты назад, WhiteMarker сказал: You accepted the ToS and EULA. You accepted that you are not allowed to use third party tools. And now you make this thread. Seems legit as Hek. 1) Even devs told that things like common scripts are fine 2) Game was created for players and for list of rules, if something in "rules" wil hit alot of good players for no reason - this only means those rules were bad. so, i can see more logic in this post,rather than in ur comment. 😃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteMarker Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Melanholic7 said: 1) Even devs told that things like common scripts are fine That's right and it's not what OP is talking about. OP talks about third party programs, that even though they aren't used for cheating, change the game's files and get you banned because of that. OP wan't to change that, even though there is no need to change that rule. People just have to think more about what they are doing. 5 minutes ago, Melanholic7 said: 2) Game was created for players and for list of rules, if something in "rules" wil hit alot of good players for no reason - this only means those rules were bad. But the rules we are talking about ("Don't use third party tools") aren't bad. And they aren't hitting a lot of players. And if this rule was removed it would open the game up for people with malicious intends. No reason to do that. The game is perfectly fine playable without such tools OP is talking about. So there is no reason for DE to allow such tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 56 minutes ago, CEGenius said: Just do not let people log in if the files were changed. That way you won't let cheaters live an easy life time and save all other people from ban for using some overlay or optimization tuner or smth. Except that, in case you weren't aware, that is not how most cheating is done...especially in online games. People don't change their local files and then launch the game, they attach a process to the memory that the game is using in order to view and modify it as they are playing...which results in exactly zero file changes while allowing for things like health to not be depleted because the health value in memory stays static. 59 minutes ago, CEGenius said: Just banning all who use third party programs is not effective IMO. Cheaters will just create another account trying to use your incomlete ban system. And people banned for "grey area" soft will send tickets to support for unban. By changing this system you save time for your players (also donations money) and support staff. Except that DE doesn't ban "all who use third party programs" in the least. They have confirmed, multiple times, that overlays as well as programs like ReShade are perfectly allowable and fine. Obviously some tools are banned because they could be used to cheat, but others are allowed on a case-by-case basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnyn Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 External tools are always "use at your own risk". They try to not hit tools like ReShade but that doesnt mean you cant get banned for them accidentally. I also just read OP's name, which is kinda ironic in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Zweimander Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Macros are one thing that need to be a soft ban if you ask me. They can be easily exploited and even got a weapons passive nerfed pretty much single handedly instead of the Macros themselves being banned! And yes I consider macros cheating as they are a third party software... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEGenius Posted August 14, 2019 Author Share Posted August 14, 2019 4 hours ago, Rathalio said: Did you met cheaters recently on warframe ? I never really saw one in PVE (but players with macros), I only saw some in conclave a while ago but then DE banned them and fixed it. Is there any reason to cheat in a PVE, in warframe ? I don't see any cheating problems in warframe so... Anyway they don't ban players who use third party programs, they ban players who use third party programs that interacts with warframe datas like all cheat engines do. (If that wasn't the case things like discord overlay would be bannable) Even if there were cheaters in my game i wouldn't notice them. My point is that not letting you log in to the game is more effective than ban everybody for anything. My friend is banned for a month for accidentaly leaving some overlay on that he downloaded for another game that is fine with this kind of things (probably). I am sure that this change can save a lot of time and effort in the longrun that is wasted on unbanning people like my friend (i hope they unban) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEGenius Posted August 14, 2019 Author Share Posted August 14, 2019 4 hours ago, WhiteMarker said: That's right and it's not what OP is talking about. OP talks about third party programs, that even though they aren't used for cheating, change the game's files and get you banned because of that. OP wan't to change that, even though there is no need to change that rule. People just have to think more about what they are doing. But the rules we are talking about ("Don't use third party tools") aren't bad. And they aren't hitting a lot of players. And if this rule was removed it would open the game up for people with malicious intends. No reason to do that. The game is perfectly fine playable without such tools OP is talking about. So there is no reason for DE to allow such tools. I don't want to change the rules. I want to stop wasting time on accidents. I am sure customer support has a lot of work that need attention more than unban for said accidents. And also their system not always bans people for the same tpp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnyn Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 vor 2 Minuten schrieb CEGenius: Even if there were cheaters in my game i wouldn't notice them. My point is that not letting you log in to the game is more effective than ban everybody for anything. My friend is banned for a month for accidentaly leaving some overlay on that he downloaded for another game that is fine with this kind of things (probably). I am sure that this change can save a lot of time and effort in the longrun that is wasted on unbanning people like my friend (i hope they unban) The point in banning people outright is that no one can safely attempt to cheat. If the game would just kick you if it detects something but doesnt ban you then you can just try again until you crack it. I feel sorry for your friend and I hope they get unbanned but that's the colleteral damage DE has to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEGenius Posted August 14, 2019 Author Share Posted August 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Drachnyn said: The point in banning people outright is that no one can safely attempt to cheat. If the game would just kick you if it detects something but doesnt ban you then you can just try again until you crack it. I feel sorry for your friend and I hope they get unbanned but that's the colleteral damage DE has to take. You do realise that if you get banned you also can try again. Ban is not scary to ofender. It is scary for simple users Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEGenius Posted August 14, 2019 Author Share Posted August 14, 2019 4 hours ago, Tsukinoki said: Except that, in case you weren't aware, that is not how most cheating is done...especially in online games. People don't change their local files and then launch the game, they attach a process to the memory that the game is using in order to view and modify it as they are playing...which results in exactly zero file changes while allowing for things like health to not be depleted because the health value in memory stays static. Except that DE doesn't ban "all who use third party programs" in the least. They have confirmed, multiple times, that overlays as well as programs like ReShade are perfectly allowable and fine. Obviously some tools are banned because they could be used to cheat, but others are allowed on a case-by-case basis. I am not a cheating expert and obviosly don't know how this works. What I know is that a lot of tickets created after these accidents and this change will save time for support. Also if you don't ban every clumsy player for this kind of things you don't lose money. So this change can be profitable even (but i don't know exact nubers so its just a possibility) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnyn Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 vor 6 Minuten schrieb CEGenius: You do realise that if you get banned you also can try again. Ban is not scary to ofender. It is scary for simple users Going with your proposal wouldnt stop anyone. DE's draconic stance dissuades most idiots from risking their accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEGenius Posted August 14, 2019 Author Share Posted August 14, 2019 43 minutes ago, Drachnyn said: Going with your proposal wouldnt stop anyone. DE's draconic stance dissuades most idiots from risking their accounts. There is no idiots risking their account if there is no ability to. Current system makes at least the same amount of harm as good. Not letting people log in works in other titles with competitive pvp. It can work here better becose its main focus is pve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Erudite Prime Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 who really cares about cheaters in a PvE game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteMarker Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 3 hours ago, CEGenius said: I don't want to change the rules. I want to stop wasting time on accidents. I am sure customer support has a lot of work that need attention more than unban for said accidents. And also their system not always bans people for the same tpp But why would there be accidents? These are actually pretty rare. If you are using something that alters game files, and if you get banned, then this isn't an accident and you won't get unbanned. I also like that you say you want to make things easier for support. You know what makes things easier for support? If people stopped doing stupid things. If they stopped using tools to alter game files. There is no reason at all to use these tools. You want to use them, sure. But you don't have to use them. So there is no reason for DE to change their policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdframe_Prime Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 4 hours ago, CEGenius said: I am not a cheating expert and obviosly don't know how this works. A regular old Google search explains a lot, you know. And one of the things it does explain is that there is no way, on launching the game, to prevent a player from logging in with the intent to cheat, as any software used to cheat in a game that is live-updated to other players is active only while the game session is already going. There is no detection that DE could use that would stop these players from logging in other than simply banning them from logging in overall, and that's what they do when these types of cheats are detected. It's what almost every known online PvP or PvE game does, in fact, they ban based on what the person is using, which can only be detected while the person is using it. Unless you want to go around hiring psychics to pre-emptively prevent players from cheating, then there's no way to succeed in the aim of this thread, because you can't say somebody is cheating until you actually have evidence that they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 I don't see the purpose of cheat programs in Warframe, the power-creep has already made it so that some frames or weapons can destroy entire rooms almost as fast as a /killall hack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEGenius Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 On 2019-08-15 at 1:41 AM, WhiteMarker said: But why would there be accidents? These are actually pretty rare. If you are using something that alters game files, and if you get banned, then this isn't an accident and you won't get unbanned. I also like that you say you want to make things easier for support. You know what makes things easier for support? If people stopped doing stupid things. If they stopped using tools to alter game files. There is no reason at all to use these tools. You want to use them, sure. But you don't have to use them. So there is no reason for DE to change their policy. My friend is already unbanned. If people made no mistakes there would be no need in any control in anything ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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