Modular weapons are not endgame

[motorfirebox]

Fashionframe is endgame, and modular weapons can't use skins, ergo modular weapons aren't endgame. DE pls fix

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

100% agree

@[DE]Rebecca hire this genius 

[taiiat]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

'fashion is endgame' has always sounded like a copout for people to say it's ok that they ran out of things to do. it isn't, since the game doesn't intend for the core of it to be about fashion to begin with (this isn't a fashion game, this is a Shooter). 
but either way Modular Weapons might as well be able to use applicable Skins, no reason not to, yes.

[BlindStalker]

It's due to a technical limitation because of how Zaws were created. Apparently, the function of the zaws are tied to their mesh. [DE]Marcus gave an answer to this already as to why Zaws can't use skins, its a technical complicated issue that requires a lot more work than what people think.

"Dear Tenno,

We are sorry that we have not been able to add skins to the Zaws - and we won't be able to anytime soon. This issue is... surprisingly complicated, so let's walk through it so we're all on the same page.

The system for re-working skins for Zaws is much more complicated than it might appear. The functionality of the Zaws is deeply connected to the Mesh of the weapon. The Mesh determines how the Zaws function, and to change the skin of the weapon would mean changing the functionality of each individual piece for the Zaw. Zaw's and Exodia both require the base assets, looking at the way Balance meshes and projectiles work means that changing the meshes would totally change the performance of the weapon in-game.

We are not saying this will not happen, but it would be a massive undertaking on our end to change the cosmetics when we’re devoted to making other changes at the moment. We’re just saying it's not going to happen anytime soon.  

Thanks Tenno!"

Link to [DE]Marcus' original reply on this topic:

Unless OP was purely joking and not to be taken seriously, then whoosh me, sorry.

Edited August 18, 2019 by BlindStalker

[Aldain]

4 hours ago, BlindStalker said:

The functionality of the Zaws is deeply connected to the Mesh of the weapon.

...So wait the outward appearance is what the game references for the stats of the weapon?

That...is just silly. I'm no coding expert but wouldn't it have been better to just program an "X+Y+Z=Stats" system rather than tying it to the visual properties?

Then again there is that bug that causes operator amp energy to drain faster based on framerate so I guess the spaghetti code shouldn't surprise me in any way at this point.

[motorfirebox]

14 hours ago, Aldain said:

...So wait the outward appearance is what the game references for the stats of the weapon?

That...is just silly. I'm no coding expert but wouldn't it have been better to just program an "X+Y+Z=Stats" system rather than tying it to the visual properties?

Then again there is that bug that causes operator amp energy to drain faster based on framerate so I guess the spaghetti code shouldn't surprise me in any way at this point.

Yeah, but generally speaking DE isn't looking for Mister Right, they're looking for Mister Right Now. In the balance between making sure you've considered all the implications and ramifications of your decision, versus getting the product out the door, DE leans towards getting the product out. It's not right or wrong—clearly, seven years on, it works for them—but one consequence is tangles like this.

[motorfirebox]

19 hours ago, BlindStalker said:

It's due to a technical limitation because of how Zaws were created. Apparently, the function of the zaws are tied to their mesh. [DE]Marcus gave an answer to this already as to why Zaws can't use skins, its a technical complicated issue that requires a lot more work than what people think.

"Dear Tenno,

We are sorry that we have not been able to add skins to the Zaws - and we won't be able to anytime soon. This issue is... surprisingly complicated, so let's walk through it so we're all on the same page.

The system for re-working skins for Zaws is much more complicated than it might appear. The functionality of the Zaws is deeply connected to the Mesh of the weapon. The Mesh determines how the Zaws function, and to change the skin of the weapon would mean changing the functionality of each individual piece for the Zaw. Zaw's and Exodia both require the base assets, looking at the way Balance meshes and projectiles work means that changing the meshes would totally change the performance of the weapon in-game.

We are not saying this will not happen, but it would be a massive undertaking on our end to change the cosmetics when we’re devoted to making other changes at the moment. We’re just saying it's not going to happen anytime soon.  

Thanks Tenno!"

Link to [DE]Marcus' original reply on this topic:

Unless OP was purely joking and not to be taken seriously, then whoosh me, sorry.

I mean, I wasn't SERIOUS serious, but I skins for modular weapons is something I'd really like to see. I know there's issues with how they designed modular weapons that make it difficult—they'll need to find some other place to store the component data, which is a change that could easily affect every other weapon in the game. Most likely the reason they chose to pull composition data straight from the mesh is that there's nowhere else available to store it. If you add a 'components' column in the weapons database, it gets added to every weapon, and you have to make sure that having an empty value there (for non-component weapons) doesn't blow something up somewhere else. And to be fair, pulling component data right from the mesh is boner-inducingly elegant.

So yeah, it's a thing. But it's a thing I want, so I'm dinging DE in hopes they'll make it a priority.

Edited August 18, 2019 by motorfirebox

[IamLoco]

I might be new to this game, but I am working with CGI since 2001.

I really don´t understand the issue here. You could always, in any game engine, set the visibility of the actual weapon to zero and add another mesh (the weapon skin mesh) which is linked to the weapon mesh. This way the character would still use the "main" mesh (which is simply invisible) and the visible skin mesh would follow the parent mesh object.

Setting up such a system would be certainly a lot easier than to change the behaviour of the weapon parts.

All you would need to make sure is that the skin mesh fits the base mesh in the important areas , so e.g. the hands would look like they grab the handle etc.

So there might be restrictions on which skins go with which handle, length of the base weapon etc, but it would well be possible in theory.

[vaarnaaarne]

On 2019-08-18 at 8:59 PM, motorfirebox said:

Yeah, but generally speaking DE isn't looking for Mister Right, they're looking for Mister Right Now. In the balance between making sure you've considered all the implications and ramifications of your decision, versus getting the product out the door, DE leans towards getting the product out. It's not right or wrong—clearly, seven years on, it works for them—but one consequence is tangles like this.

To me the curious bit is that at least as a layman you'd assume the X+Y+Z way of doing things would be simpler than linking the stats directly to the mesh. Like it sounds like the way Zaws do work now would be the far harder way to go about it.

But hey, that's just a wildly uneducated guess on my part.

[SpawnTDK]

Am 17.8.2019 um 23:45 schrieb motorfirebox:

Fashionframe is endgame, and modular weapons can't use skins, ergo modular weapons aren't endgame. DE pls fix

i don't consider fashion as endgame, since i did it from the very beginning, in terms of replacement skins, because many warframe look like someone vomited and tried to make a model out of it.

 

but yes, skins for modular weapons, at least for the secondarys, would be nice.

Edited August 22, 2019 by SpawnTDK

[motorfirebox]

 

On 2019-08-21 at 12:27 PM, IamLoco said:

I might be new to this game, but I am working with CGI since 2001.

I really don´t understand the issue here. You could always, in any game engine, set the visibility of the actual weapon to zero and add another mesh (the weapon skin mesh) which is linked to the weapon mesh. This way the character would still use the "main" mesh (which is simply invisible) and the visible skin mesh would follow the parent mesh object.

Setting up such a system would be certainly a lot easier than to change the behaviour of the weapon parts.

All you would need to make sure is that the skin mesh fits the base mesh in the important areas , so e.g. the hands would look like they grab the handle etc.

So there might be restrictions on which skins go with which handle, length of the base weapon etc, but it would well be possible in theory.

That was kinda my thought. If I had to guess, I'd say they're maybe concerned about having to load an extra mesh, or to have to check whether the additional mesh is necessary to load? But based on some bugs with previous skins, I think they're already loading the original mesh. In conclusion, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

On 2019-08-21 at 5:02 PM, vaarnaaarne said:

To me the curious bit is that at least as a layman you'd assume the X+Y+Z way of doing things would be simpler than linking the stats directly to the mesh. Like it sounds like the way Zaws do work now would be the far harder way to go about it.

But hey, that's just a wildly uneducated guess on my part.

Well, easy can mean different things in coding. Adding, for instance, 256 new sidearms to the weapons table (that's how many possible combinations there are for kitguns) is, in some ways, pretty simple, and in other ways a big tedious slog of data entry—even moreso when you consider the possibility of adding new parts in the future, or changing the stats of existing parts. Adding a single new kitgun part would result in 64 new sidearms to add to the weapons table. A new system that takes the physical mesh and derives the final stats from them is more complex, but it's also more flexible. And, maybe most importantly, it's more interesting to create.

[TeaHawk]

I never use kitguns, because they are extremely ugly-looking. Don't even want to touch that... pipy thing...

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

On 2019-08-17 at 10:45 PM, motorfirebox said:

Fashionframe is endgame

For some players, for others not so much.

On 2019-08-17 at 10:45 PM, motorfirebox said:

modular weapons can't use skins

True, but they have a utilitarian appearance - their looks are tied directly to how they behave. Form follows function and all that.

Even on weapons that can equip skins, it's not always fashionable (though obviously that's highly subjective) to equip a skin.

On 2019-08-17 at 10:45 PM, motorfirebox said:

ergo modular weapons aren't endgame

This conclusion fails because your assumptions are wrong:

- Fashion Frame ≠ Endgame (though for some it might)

- Skins are not a prerequisite to fashion.