Gender skins

[VentiGlondi]

10 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Its FAAAAAAR too much work to go

Deluxe skins are completely new models, and they're not far too much work apparently

[Gabbynaru]

But why though?

[JackHargreav]

3 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

Deluxe skins are completely new models, and they're not far too much work apparently

I don't think you know what work goes into these skins at all. It is a lot of #*!%ing work to make these skins. I know since I learned 3d animation and I won't work as a 3d animator ever because it's a #*!%ing hell. Takes a lot of time and concentration to do. It's tiring as #*!%.

And in the end ppl will complain what a S#&$ty job you did of course.

[evilChair]

every time this topic comes around i get the "they really aren't giving up on demanding an ash in a french maid outfit" kind of vibe

Edited September 7, 2019 by evilChair

[VentiGlondi]

8 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

I don't think you know what work goes into these skins at all.

Clearly it's not "far too much" considering they keep making new ones.

[CaptainMeowth]

il y a 21 minutes, evilChair a dit :

every time this topic comes around i get the "they really aren't giving up on demanding an ash in a french maid outfit" kind of vibe

You know you want it too

[evilChair]

Just now, CaptainMeowth said:

You know you want it too

i'd prefer excalibur, personally, with a feather duster skin for the exalted blade.

[JackHargreav]

28 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

Clearly it's not "far too much" considering they keep making new ones.

They are doing it at a snails pace yes. Now if they would double the amount of deluxe skins to make, they would come out even slower than before. Especially since other genders need different rigs and bones and whatnot.

[Cubewano]

7 hours ago, rastaban75 said:

Then, there's the problem with the names of several Warframes. Sure, female Frost and male Ember would make sense. But female Oberon? Male Titania? Female Atlas? Male Banshee? Male Valkyr? Female Loki? Many frames are direct references to characters or figures from the real world, and these have a specific genders. Or you have names like Nidus (-us alludes to male names in Latin) or Nekros (-os alludes to male names in Greek) etc. that also pose problems. Sure, you can have alternate names for each frame along with the alternate "gendered" skin, but this would pose yet another problem. Or you could stick to the current names but that would be silly imo.

Just gives the skins a different name? Like all other deluxes? Ember was called Blaze when they were male. Female Ash was initially named Smoke. Isn't that hard to come up with a slight text change. As for alternate names posing a problem...how? 

6 hours ago, Swagernator22663 said:

Why are people so obsessed with this ? Is that the "end game content" thing  ? Like literally the first thing you asked is this ? LMAO.

People are just making requests for what they'd like, much like anyone else in the forums, it's sort of what they are for. If it's a recurring suggestion it just means it one of more common interest. As for why, aesthetic, it's what drives the entire fashion frame community and why we have tons of skins and deluxes and cosmetic variety. 

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

They are doing it at a snails pace yes. Now if they would double the amount of deluxe skins to make, they would come out even slower than before. Especially since other genders need different rigs and bones and whatnot.

All frames use the same rigs, they'd only need to remodel and it'd be easier done than deluxes since they already have a strong base concept to go off.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Cubewano

[Katinka]

1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

They are doing it at a snails pace yes.

As I already said:

12 hours ago, Katinka said:

Obviously they couldn't roll out one for every frame straight away but gradually adding a few here and there could work.

Would it hurt to start with sharing Excalibur and Nyx's cosmetic options?  I imagine it would boost the sales of each.

1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

Now if they would double the amount of deluxe skins to make, they would come out even slower than before. Especially since other genders need different rigs and bones and whatnot.

They already stated that some warframes will have more than one deluxe back when Proto Volt was added and we now have two deluxe Nyx skins, Nemesis and Pasithea.  The warframes don't have unique rigs and bones as evidenced by the fact that idle animations can be equipped on any frame and all weapon animations work the same way on all frames, they are set up already to be able to use any animation.  All future warframes and deluxe skins will need to fit the existing animations regardless of the gender of the warframe or the gender of the deluxe skin so I don't see how rigs and bones can be used as a reason why a deluxe skin's gender would have to match the original gender of the wraframe it's for.

[JackHargreav]

11 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

All frames use the same rigs, they'd only need to remodel and it'd be easier done than deluxes since they already have a strong base concept to go off.

How do you know that? Btw I'm sure they don't. 

But also the community would just be mad because "De doesn't care anymore. All they do is cosmetics. We want sustainable content. Reeeee"

[JackHargreav]

3 minutes ago, Katinka said:

Would it hurt to start with sharing Excalibur and Nyx's cosmetic options?  I imagine it would boost the sales of each.

And then this happens: Players will flip out because their favorite frame don't have a skin like that or Players flip out because "Skins are not content DE! DE doesn't care! DE wants to cater to the pc ppl. DE only care money! Me angry!" And other sh*t like that.

You want it. That is you. Not everyone. We have enough players complaining about content. Or "sustainable content" what ever the f*ck that might be in their head.

[Katinka]

8 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

How do you know that? Btw I'm sure they don't. 

Because of the reasons I've given above and also DE saying so in devstreams, where they've discussed the limitations regarding size and shape of warframes and how especially large or quadripedal/centaur warframes wouldn't work under their current system as everything needs to fit the same animations and thus use the same rig (and every new melee stance locks them further into that system as it'd be another animation set that would need to be adjusted to the new rig if they did one).

8 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

But also the community would just be mad because "De doesn't care anymore. All they do is cosmetics. We want sustainable content. Reeeee"

Yes, because that's exactly the response that was received after every deluxe skin reveal...  Nevermind the fact that sustainable content isn't directly connected to art and animation.

1 minute ago, JackHargreav said:

And then this happens: Players will flip out because their favorite frame don't have a skin like that or Players flip out because "Skins are not content DE! DE doesn't care! DE wants to cater to the pc ppl. DE only care money! Me angry!" And other sh*t like that

Again, do we currently see that with Deluxe skins?  We get some people saying which frames they wish had one, but it's not like there's massive outcry (that only happens when a cosmetic that people were excited about gets canned).

Edited September 7, 2019 by Katinka

[JackHargreav]

Just now, Katinka said:

Because of the reasons I've given above and also DE saying so in devstreams, where they've discussed the limitations regarding size and shape of warframes and how especially large or quadripedal/centaur warframes wouldn't work under their current system as everything needs to fit the same animations and thus use the same rig (and every new melee stance locks them further into that system as it'd be another animation set that would need to be adjusted to the new rig if they did one).

Yes, because that's exactly the response that was received after every deluxe skin reveal...  Nevermind the fact that sustainable content isn't directly connected to art and animation.

Tell that to the ppl who complain about this sh*t. I saw it a lot of times. Ppl thinking that the cosmetic section should be put into the gameplay section like that makes sense.

Btw same rig or not making these skins still a lot of work. Like it or not DE cannot press "4" and make a skin.

[Cubewano]

2 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

But why though?

Why is there any visual variety for the game at all? Because it sells and people like be able to customize their things. 

Just now, JackHargreav said:

How do you know that? Btw I'm sure they don't. 

But also the community would just be mad because "De doesn't care anymore. All they do is cosmetics. We want sustainable content. Reeeee"

Because DE themselves have stated it, because it's even shown in-game through our ability to exchange all idles across all frames, because it's sort of obvious. This game was designed to be as development friendly as possible because DE was told it would live or die by their ability to keep things growing, that includes frame creation, so they all share the same base rig so that the creation of frames is as simple and efficient as possible time investment wise. The only frame I'm aware of the have a unique rig is the coming frame Grendel, which they specifically pointed out as potentially having such because he is broader than all past frames and his limbs were starting to clip into his body using the standard rig. An issue that wouldn't have ever happened if frames just had unique rigging off the bat. 

And sure, that is why deluxes are so detested and DE stopped making them years ago because they weren't a success within the community. Oh wait. 

[Gabbynaru]

1 minute ago, Cubewano said:

Why is there any visual variety for the game at all? Because it sells and people like be able to customize their things. 

Eh, I'll take immortal skins (at least) over putting boobs on Rhino any time of the day. Not to mention, all that will do is take away from female frames. So again, why? If it's a new model, with a new skin and a new look, why not just make it a new Warframe at that point?

[Katinka]

1 minute ago, JackHargreav said:

Tell that to the ppl who complain about this sh*t. I saw it a lot of times.

If I ever saw that complaint I might but currently all I see is you throwing it up as a hypothetical response but I've seen no evidence of the community being strongly against further cosmetic options other than the few people that join threads like this and claim DE has dismissed it many times, when actually they dismissed it once long ago for reasons that no longer apply and the most recent time it came up on a devstream were more open to the idea.

6 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Btw same rig or not making these skins still a lot of work. Like it or not DE cannot press "4" and make a skin.

In the case of Excalibur and Nyx I think they can.  Nobody's asking for all frames to get them at once, just proposing it as an idea for some over time to get them.  For the third time:

13 hours ago, Katinka said:

Obviously they couldn't roll out one for every frame straight away but gradually adding a few here and there could work.

 

 

[JackHargreav]

Just now, Cubewano said:

And sure, that is why deluxes are so detested and DE stopped making them years ago because they weren't a success within the community. Oh wait.

Except I saw many ppl complain about De making cosmetics. Other than that it's still a lot of work and it's also not needed. Just because there are there like 10 players who want this (Yes I just assumed that) it doesn't mean they should do it. I know deluxe skins also "break the lore" or whatever but making gender skins would brake it even more.

And again it's uselsess it's a lot of work and not all of us wants it to happen.

[Cubewano]

1 minute ago, Gabbynaru said:

Eh, I'll take immortal skins (at least) over putting boobs on Rhino any time of the day. Not to mention, all that will do is take away from female frames. So again, why? If it's a new model, with a new skin and a new look, why not just make it a new Warframe at that point?

Good for you, everyone has their own taste however so no reason to not reach out to more ranges. And the look isn't meant to be all that new, just more masculine or feminine given the base design, and otherwise remain similar enough to the frame to be well...that frame but flipped, and mechanically remaining the same experience. People looking for a gender swap aren't looking for an entirely new frame, or they'd ask for that, they like the frame they've got, they just want a cosmetic change to it not much different to wanting deluxes for ones favorite frame because they think that style would appeal more to them. If the thing winds up playing and looking wildly different then that doesn't really pull off that, it's something new, not a visual variant. 

[Cubewano]

9 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Except I saw many ppl complain about De making cosmetics. Other than that it's still a lot of work and it's also not needed. Just because there are there like 10 players who want this (Yes I just assumed that) it doesn't mean they should do it. I know deluxe skins also "break the lore" or whatever but making gender skins would brake it even more.

And again it's uselsess it's a lot of work and not all of us wants it to happen.

People complain about many things, it's the price of being host to a large community base, just because someone is upset does not mean you obey them, there is always someone upset and looking to pin blame unjustly. If you think a genuine argument here is DE should stop creating cosmetics because a handful of people are ignorant to how game development works then you're being really naive yourself, being wasteful because someone is misinformed, or being wasteful to appease someone whose intent is only to not be appeased, is not a reasonable suggestion. DE are aware of that which is why they still make cosmetics albeit there always being someone out there confused about the development process, or someone venting to vent, you can't just bend the knee and obey the whim of every person who speaks regardless of how wrong or unreasonable they are being. That's just self harming. 

And how does it break lore?  

[HugintheCrow]

14 hours ago, (PS4)joey_a21 said:

Hi everyone I just wanna throw an idea in out there would it be cool if we had gender skins for frames? Like atlas (male) have a female skin or saryn(female)  have a male skin. Like I said it's an idea 

You mean sex, not gender. Sex can be female or male (or in-between, also known as hermaphrodite), gender can be one of many variations.

In other words, sex is physical, gender is psychological. Skins don't change brains, so what you're asking is different sex skins.

Edited September 7, 2019 by HugintheCrow

[JackHargreav]

2 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

And how does it break lore? 

Sacrifice quest pretty much reveals that frames were humans infected by helminth.

But look if they decide to do skins like these it's whatever. But seems highly unlikely to me. Especially because I'd rather have the choice given to me for free from the beginning.

[Cubewano]

5 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Sacrifice quest pretty much reveals that frames were humans infected by helminth.

But look if they decide to do skins like these it's whatever. But seems highly unlikely to me. Especially because I'd rather have the choice given to me for free from the beginning.

Obviously, but how does that make this break lore? (and why does lore matter to begin with for that matter since most deluxes aren't canon?)

That's up to DE, and the market more or less. If they do it and it sells, they'll keep doing it, but it is full well an option, and a reasonable one at that to try. 

[-VS-Zany]