nightwave zealot invasions making the game hostile towards newer players

[SpacewalkerX]

Newer players that are clearing the starchart, are getting their progress halted by enemies a lot of them seem unable do fight. I have been seeing a lot of complaints about this recently, so i felt i should mention it here.

I feel like it would be better if they only showed up if there are 4 players.

Edited September 21, 2019 by SpacewalkerX

[WhiteMarker]

39 minutes ago, SpacewalkerX said:

I feel like it would be better if they only showed up if there are 4 players.

I get where you are coming from, but I can handle them just fine. I want to encounter them even in solo mode.
So that's a pretty bad idea.

[Uhkretor]

40 minutes ago, SpacewalkerX said:

only showed up if there are 4 players.

... Which is how most of the new players are running, thanks to the matchmaking being set to "Public" by default.

... If 4 can't handle those, especially since they now match the level range of a specific node they are running, I can only wonder how mobile the new players are being...

... Not saying that those enemies shouldn't be/aren't dangerous. They are, but that's exactly their point. They add that "dangerous" factor to the mix.

... I, however, would blame the ones towing the new players, since they are taking them to places that they're not supposed to go for a myriad of reasons... Being two of those reasons - equipment and mods.

... Also, you're technically asking that everyone else that isn't running in a full squad doesn't encounter The Three Stooges. Which is, basically... the majority. And the majority of that majority already 1-shots The Three Stooges.

 

... This is like asking that the Wolf of Saturn Six should only appear for full squads only because "new players can't handle him"... The danger component added to the mission is the same, but unlike The Three Stooges, Wolf of Saturn Six was an HP + Armor sponge. Dealing with him on Solo was complicated for most of the vets.

New players have it easy now, these only need to be decked in a short timeframe after the 1st one is on the ground. Doing so, especially on a full squad, should be relatively easy... What new players need to understand is that the success of a fight of this nature relies heavily on agility... No, it isn't bullet jumping around like a moron. Its actually dodging their attacks at the right moment, towards the right direction.

... Which is also known as "Mobility"... And unlike the current Melee block, dodging isn't automatic.

 

Again, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be/aren't dangerous. They are, and its by design. New players simply have to adapt to the new reality... Now, I don't know if this continues after Nightwave ends, but I'm not expecting it to.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Uhkretor

[Hello]

Yet another suggestion for the game to screw over solo players or friends playing together in a small group. Only spawn with 4 players? Nah.

People had the same complaints in the first Nightwave. It's nice to have some kind of challenge which is what the Wolf of Saturn Six and Zealots gave at first. Hopefully we get more things like this in the future.

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

5 minutes ago, --Brandt-- said:

Yet another suggestion for the game to screw over solo players or friends playing together in a small group. Only spawn with 4 players? Nah.

People had the same complaints in the first Nightwave. It's nice to have some kind of challenge which is what the Wolf of Saturn Six and Zealots gave at first. Hopefully we get more things like this in the future.

The Wolf was a terrible challenge. He had boring/annoying attack patterns and an obscene amount of incredibly damage-resistant health. The Fugitives with one-hit-kill firebombs was awful too. And they they made them invincible. It was horrible and part of the reason I quit playing Warframe for a while and will never get the last three Season 1 ranks, it was all so frustrating and unenjoyable.

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

The Wolf was a terrible challenge. He had boring/annoying attack patterns and an obscene amount of incredibly damage-resistant health. The Fugitives with one-hit-kill firebombs was awful too. And they they made them invincible. It was horrible and part of the reason I quit playing Warframe for a while and will never get the last three Season 1 ranks, it was all so frustrating and unenjoyable.

Okay, good story.
Doesn't add anything to this thread, but still fair point.
Btw. there are a lot of ways to stay alive (Warframes and Operator Arcanes come to mind). Maybe you weren't far enough into the game for all that stuff. But if you were far enough into the game, NW1 enemies weren't all that strong at all.

[Uhkretor]

4 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Btw. there are a lot of ways to stay alive (Warframes and Operator Arcanes come to mind). Maybe you weren't far enough into the game for all that stuff. But if you were far enough into the game, NW1 enemies weren't all that strong at all.

Those facilitate, but I didn't need any of them to survive against the WoS6, so I doubt he/she would need those. Its like I said towards the OP, its all about mobility. knowing when to dodge and the direction towards safety goes a long way. The new players should get that knowledge from Zealot encounters and use it to their advantage...

... now, funny thing is... what if the one that's really having problems against the Zealots is the OP and he/she's using new players as an excuse...? xD

[WhiteMarker]

2 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

Those facilitate, but I didn't need any of them to survive against the WoS6, so I doubt he/she would need those. Its like I said towards the OP, its all about mobility. knowing when to dodge and the direction towards safety goes a long way. The new players should get that knowledge from Zealot encounters and use it to their advantage...

The guy I quoted said he quit the game because of the Wolf. I would assume he had a fair share of trouble dealing with him. And I feel like a lot of people have issues using mobility of any kind. So healing frames and arcanes would be the way to go for these people.
But you are right, the Wolf, and the Zealots now, aren't all that dangerous. They aren't really difficult. Atleast if you know what you are doing.

[Uhkretor]

Yep.

But its like I said, those facilitate. If they have them, I also encourage using them.

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

2 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

Okay, good story.
Doesn't add anything to this thread, but still fair point.
Btw. there are a lot of ways to stay alive (Warframes and Operator Arcanes come to mind). Maybe you weren't far enough into the game for all that stuff. But if you were far enough into the game, NW1 enemies weren't all that strong at all.

 

2 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

The guy I quoted said he quit the game because of the Wolf. I would assume he had a fair share of trouble dealing with him. And I feel like a lot of people have issues using mobility of any kind. So healing frames and arcanes would be the way to go for these people.
But you are right, the Wolf, and the Zealots now, aren't all that dangerous. They aren't really difficult. Atleast if you know what you are doing.

No, I didn't have all the max-rank "make me invincible forever" arcanes, and I still don't because I started playing in November and still haven't gotten around to farming Eidolons because it's really boring. The Wolf's offense wasn't a problem, it was being an extreme bullet sponge that was incredibly unfun to engage that was the problem. Shooting a big idiot for several minutes at a time with really dull attack patterns was not fun. The fugitives with him throwing obscene-damage firebombs all the time and also being bullet sponges combined with the Wolf himself was what made the whole experience extremely frustrating, enough that I decided I simply didn't want to play anymore.

Good for you that you could handle it easy. I was still pretty new to the game and couldn't, and I didn't appreciate the notion that I constantly had to carry around my most powerful weapons just in case the The Sponge of Saturn Six interrupted my missions. The Zealots aren't as bad but they are still pretty annoying when playing solo, if I'm not running my strong gear ALL THE TIME they kill me pretty easily and taking them down can be very hard, and multiple times I've had to just ignore them and run away, or even quit the mission entirely when they were doing things like killing my drills constantly.

Yeah, they're not hard if you equip yourself appropriately. But I'm busy doing other things, like leveling weapons and warframes while farming relics or whatever. The Zealots haven't been bad enough to make me drop the game in a rage like The Wolf did (and it was a combination of him and being burned out on Nightwave in general) but they can still be a hassle to anyone who hasn't built up everything they have. I can only imagine how hard they're stomping newer players.

Oh and they always kill my Sentinel. I really hate them for that.

Edited September 22, 2019 by (NSW)ToadBlue

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

They’re honestly no different from the syndicate hit squads being a pain for newer players. Except the zealots are a lot easier to take down.

[Uhkretor]

13 minutes ago, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

Yeah, they're not hard if you equip yourself appropriately.

You could do it like I always do... You need to lvl up stuff? take 2 of the 3 available slots with the most effective weapons you have, and the 3rd gets the weapon you're trying to lvl up. That should keep you covered until you max those out.

You'll only lvl up one weapon at a time though, but at least you're ready to take on specific targets, like those Zealots.

[(XBOX)BlueDually]

26 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

You could do it like I always do... You need to lvl up stuff? take 2 of the 3 available slots with the most effective weapons you have, and the 3rd gets the weapon you're trying to lvl up. That should keep you covered until you max those out.

You'll only lvl up one weapon at a time though, but at least you're ready to take on specific targets, like those Zealots.

Learned that one the hard way. And now I do make sure most of my equipment is solid and focus only on leveling up one thing at a time.

The only time I have found the Zealots to be really frustrating is when one of the three isn't close to the other two. I've had a few occasions where one is half way on the other side of the map. And if you don't know they rez within a limited time frame that would get really off putting.

I can't speak for everyone, but if something in this game or any game is giving me a hard time or is infuriating; I pause and look up how to deal with it on a wiki or forum. Why rage quit when half a minute on a smart phone or an open browser would tell you all you need to know.

[Uhkretor]

54 minutes ago, (XB1)BlueDually said:

Why rage quit when half a minute on a smart phone or an open browser would tell you all you need to know.

... eh~, I don't even know if those actually know that there's a wiki to check up on...

[nslay]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

They’re honestly no different from the syndicate hit squads being a pain for newer players. Except the zealots are a lot easier to take down.

Earlier today, I was experimenting with Gauss in Marduk (T4 Void Sabotage) and he was blazing fast finding all 3 hidden caches and tanking that +200% extra damage from the Corrupted just fine. But he was one shot in the same mission by the Zealots. That doesn't happen with any hit squad Gauss has faced before. The Zealots hit very hard... they're a nuisance if you're trying to level up new frames or weapons. In my case, I've been forma'ing an Amprex... it doesn't work very well killing the high level Zealots, but it's not completely finished yet either. But I didn't have any problems killing the Corrupted with my incomplete Amprex or even using a rank 0 Amprex in Eximus Sortie Survival today though! Otherwise yes, easy to kill with fully prep'd frames and equipment! They definitely hit harder and are tankier than hit squads IMO.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Just now, nslay said:

Earlier today, I was experimenting with Gauss in Marduk (T4 Void Sabotage) and he was blazing fast finding all 3 hidden caches and tanking that +200% extra damage from the Corrupted just fine. But he was one shot in the same mission by the Zealots. That doesn't happen with any hit squad Gauss has faced before.

They deal toxin damage. Not part of Gauss’s defenses.

[Grahark]

Sounds like a Troll thread to me. 

 

Figure it out. Overcome. Repeat. 

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

I agree this is a problem for anyone leveling new gear and frames, especially for newbies.

I disagree with the solution of only appearing when players are in parties of 4.

I'd restrict them to only "infested" missions, and more common during Infested Invasion missions, and guaranteed during the Infested Derelict missions.

This way, people can target farm them, or skip interacting with that aspect of Nightwave this season. (Wolf of Saturn Six could have been restricted to only Saturn nodes, or the story planet of episode - the wolf himself could have been locked behind an assassination node, requiring hunting of fugitives to figure out his current hiding place.

This whole intrusive aspect of Nightwave is bothersome in the least, and disruptive in the worst. I dislike it on principle and in experience.

[PentragoZ]

They are way better designed than the wolf and his minions, but they still messed up a solo defection mission for me on Saturn. They just add a lot of chaos and offer not much in retuirn. Or are there any rare drops from them?

[TheSixOfDiamonds]

22 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

they now match the level range of a specific node

They do? I must say, while I was still wrapping up, the level may have matched, but they were punching above their weight, so to speak. Sudden burst from their Torid and I was suddenly about half dead... in a level 17 mission... with an Umbra kit MesaP... through Shatter Shield.

And I do agree, Zealots are, shall we say a pain in the

[(PSN)robi191291]

De need to stop with this idea that every content is for everybody. Because like the people said in this forum you can not please everybody. 

DE need separate the content now, no more boring content for veterans, impossible content for news. We not are the same, and we not need same content. 

Basically rework the beggining, full effort in that be good for new players, make "endgame" content, full effort in that be good for people with certain power and abbilitie. But in the logic of DE, the new beggining need to have something for veterans, and the endgame need to be accesible for people that can not obtain yet a kubrow. and have unlocked mars. 

So no more bandaids, and start to really see, understand and fix the problems. 

 

Edited September 22, 2019 by (PS4)robi191291

[Uhkretor]

54 minutes ago, TheSixOfDiamonds said:

Sudden burst from their Torid and I was suddenly about half dead...

You know how Toxin damage deals with shields, right?

[TheSixOfDiamonds]

9 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

You know how Toxin damage deals with shields, right?

Yes, but is their Torid a normal one? If so, then why does it deal damage like a normal weapon? Why when I run Frost does it hit my shields instead of ignoring like Toxin damage would?

[Uhkretor]

I suspect that it deals Toxin damage, like the normal Torid... But its affected by the damage scaling that comes with the AI territory...

[TheSixOfDiamonds]

1 hour ago, Uhkretor said:

I suspect that it deals Toxin damage, like the normal Torid... But its affected by the damage scaling that comes with the AI territory...

Then why doesn't it bypass Frost's shields? It isn't Gas, that's for sure, because it leaves Toxin procs (at least I'm fairly sure it does). Or am I completely misremembering?