Why do you hate the New Meelee changes?

[Tyreaus]

In a nutshell: it feels hacked together because they were trying to do so much in one update.

Shimmering Blight still has just 2 combos. It needed more of a re-hash. Bullet Dance looks like it got an entire new set. It was fine.

The focus is on charge attacks, but when everything dies with regular melee attacks in the same time frame as a charge attack wind-up and charge attacks are not only (mostly) single-target but also drain from things like Blood Rush, they've barely got a place. Yet they're the intended trade-off for these nerfs.

Thing is, I think the rework isn't that bad. Faster, more sweeping charge attacks and it'd probably be just fine. Stances can still get updated (some reverted, hopefully). The range update works, even if it might need a small bump up in numbers. The problem is that when an update this freakishly massive comes out, it's hard to analyse everything fairly and in-depth. Summaries get made. Impressions are based on overviews. Players have to adapt to everything all at once, not just melee inputs one week and stat changes the next. Not to mention the fact that it's unwieldy for the developers to handle (besides the problems others have brought up: see obvious, objective oversights like Corrupt Charge and Parry still have "Channelling" designations, and "Reflection" still talks about Channelling). Had they given individual pieces over a broader time-frame, it'd probably be a much smoother ride from start to finish as fixes could keep coming alongside updates. But they dumped it all at once and it feels like a f^%king mess.

[Bz9a]

doing combos with super slow zenistar for more seconds it's so painful it's useless now 

[KorteX5K]

I hate this S#&$bag of an update because it ruined the hundreds of hours i spent working on my melee weapons and riven mods. Im that kind of player that only cares about going into a mission and leaving when the enemies are level 600+, and i dont give a single F if thats not how im supposed to play because star chart missions are just boring and offer me nothing useful, asides from kuva (even arbis are better for farming kuva and are now unplayble because no melee kills over 150). Haven't tried the new kuva lich stuff but from what i've been told its a grindfest so im not even gonna bother with that. New heavy attacks are just useless, combo counter got ruined, CO, Rush and maiming got thrown out the window. Melee damage scaling dies at level 150, past that u gotta hit them about 10000000 times before they die, even worse in disruption.
As a player the loved the melee system, loved spin2win, hybrid builds and status builds, (and my cat <3) to farm those 3 hour arbitrations, this game has now nothing to offer me.
Yes many things were broken and were making certain weapons god like, instead of nerfing everything into freaking oblivion, why not buff the ones that werent making it into the meta?
Take for example the catchmoon, i barelly ever used the damn thing (i prefer the tombfinger by a mile but wtv) just because it's used by most players it gets slammed to the ground? How about buffing the other weapons to create some competition? How about instead of making every melee weapon a bunch of useless chopsticks by making them useless past 150, why not making content with level 200+ enemies? A so called endgame, for those who like to go on missions that far.
So many things could've been done to make this a great game, but now its just a #*!%fest of nerfs and buffs and boring ass lvl 60 missions.

[Fsunate]

"why do you hate the new melee changes?"  that's like asking me why I don't enjoy hair in my food......

[SayikVindal]

I already commented, but wanted to add another comment. I do not like the changes to ranged melee and the Zenistar, I DESPISE the Kuva Lich mechanic (griefing spawn system, presence in 20+ missions, griefing loot steal mechanic) and it seems to me, frankly that this update is a hot mess.

Perhaps it was rushed, perhaps removing channeling was more dramatic than expected, and I can certainly see value in some of the changes...but the ones I listed above are game breaking for me.

Here's to holding out hope that it is only temporary.

[FiveN9ne]

2 hours ago, ShadowExodus said:

You know, i continually see people saying that DE just wants the money now. What incited this? What did they do to make players think this?

Maybe the almost 900p bundle that included color palettes and the few reskins of armor sets. Relic packs? Hmm...

[ranks21]

3 hours ago, Shinigami_Greed said:

No, no, the new middle mouse button slam attack, that puts enemies into a lifted status and actually has a bit more AOE damage.  THAT'S new

you need to read what you say, there are weapons that ragdolls enemies on slam attacks before this update what are you trying to justify. I already told you it was there originally in melee 2.0 and everyone and their grandma would use slam attacks then it got nerfed only for a couple weeks later you get it in a primed mod.

also air juggling isn't new when rhino stomp and Vauban's bastille lets you do that somewhat long ago if you knew anything about melee. its the same with ash's bladestorm nerf with the insta kill taken away only to return in covert lethality while bladestorm got weaker and required the player to now manually adjust the view to kill with the ability.

this update broke a lot of stuff in melee not just the flow of the game, you have to realise not everyone  likes to jump around like Kriss Kross or Cypress Hill.

[Anthraxicus]

The fact that melee 3.0 sucks is already bad in itself. Now, remember that DE took years of company resources, development time and brainstorming for this. Now it truly is pathetic. Oh, and it is not even finished yet. There is more garbage to come. 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

1 hour ago, ranks21 said:

you need to read what you say, there are weapons that ragdolls enemies on slam attacks before this update what are you trying to justify. I already told you it was there originally in melee 2.0 and everyone and their grandma would use slam attacks then it got nerfed only for a couple weeks later you get it in a primed mod.

also air juggling isn't new when rhino stomp and Vauban's bastille lets you do that somewhat long ago if you knew anything about melee. its the same with ash's bladestorm nerf with the insta kill taken away only to return in covert lethality while bladestorm got weaker and required the player to now manually adjust the view to kill with the ability.

this update broke a lot of stuff in melee not just the flow of the game, you have to realise not everyone  likes to jump around like Kriss Kross or Cypress Hill.

You mean Kriss Kross or House Of Pain.  IJS

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2019-11-02 at 3:50 AM, Psianide73 said:

It's interesting that many (the majority?) Of those that "hate" the changes seem to be console players, who don't have the update yet, and therefore haven't tried the changes.

Not just in this thread I might add.

 

I saw the same thing. In fact, it could be that many are just watching others, like Youtubers, play it and judge from there. As a PS4 player, I'm super hyped to try it, especially since I now have my ENTIRE weapon inventory to experiment with! New gun to melee combos to figure out, how powers and melee combos could work now and the methods of controlling heavy gunners in the air with juggles while my squad destroys the lighter enemies. Can't wait!!

[ranks21]

kriss kross 

house of pain 

always mix up with c hill and h.o.p.

[Siegecraft]

i think the change is necessary because DE just cant  keep going in the rabithole of power creep  and balance out all weapons

 

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

On 2019-11-01 at 5:43 PM, DOOMPATRIOT said:

they got nerfed

 

[RiceHat_]

For me who is used to the melee 2.0 and 2.9, this melee phase doesn't feel right, it's gimicky and me me dont like it. This change feels more than a nerf than anything else, at least for me. Played with the update and I haven't opened Warframe in a while.

[Nope]

On 2019-11-01 at 9:03 PM, ChaosMarine said:

Why I'm not a fan? I spent crap-loads of hours working on my weapons, Crap-loads of resources on forma/rivens. My favourite melee weapon has lost around 30% of it's range and the new crit multiplication system has reduced my weapon's damage output significantly. Before I could start throwing out red-crits within two to four hits, now, I have to hand out 180+ hits to start seeing red crits. It's not fun or pleasant to look at something you've put a lot of time and effort into honing to be the most optimised weapon possible suddenly get torn to shred because of an update.

To add to this, I'm still pissed at DE's attitude about nerfing Catchmoon. I don't use it. I prefer the Tombfinger to be honest but the way they decided to bring in Pablo and his crap spiel was akin to telling the player to shut up and accept their nerf because he was "a cute child" once. Firstly, if fifty people are using the gun because it's the best gun to use, that doesn't excuse them to nerf it into the ground. They'd be better off buffing other secondaries or making them worth the effort to use. This isn't a PVP game. It's a PVE game. When people whinge and moan about how they shouldn't mind their favourite weapons getting nerfed into the ground, they're essentially pissing on those that liked those weapons. I don't moan at you for enjoying your favourite weapons or even care if they're OP or not.

DE are messing up here. I've been asking every cell I've played with tonight what they're thinking and I've had exactly eight against forty-eight people (Yes, I did count) who liked and disliked the new system respectively. This is a big change to way WF plays and it's a massive change to the melee aspect which is a core component of the game.If DE are serious about producing a game the fans enjoy, okay, have the update available but within a month of the update, they should put out a message to the players and ask if they want to keep the old melee system or if they want to keep the new one.

To the people who think this is good, I don't care. If you disagree with me, I doubly don't care.You're welcome to enjoy the new system and I won't begrudge you enjoying it but just because you're enjoying it, doesn't mean those that don't enjoy it should shut up or not voice their disappointment.

*This

[awesome_ptchitz]

Why I hate them? I love them.

About combos and overall mechanic. Now I can actually chose what weapon I want to use, not limiting myself to whips. And I can actually use any combo intuitively, since they are super easy to understand and to do now. This brings diversity which I very much welcome. Combo fluidity is super cool except timing in a few stances (e.g. gunblades), which is not hard to fix and will probably be fixed.

About Maiming Strike nerf. This I say as a man who paid 500 plat for it: good riddance. This mod should not even have existed. It limited weapon diversity to two classes and limited all available playstyles to one. A game should reward skill and flexibility, not pressing the same crouch button for hours. We have already been through the very same discussion with Mesa-Mag combo in Void Tower. One button in afk is not a gameplay, and if LOS introduction and Greedy Pull nerf never happened, WF would never be a game we have now. Complaints were the same: "i put 6 formas on mesa but cannot afk anymore, boo-hoo, what will I do now". Now you will just play the game as an actual game.

About rivens. You've lost some, but got others. Not the first time, by the way, dispositions change, meta weapons change. You can now riven Etherial Daggers and Fangs Prime, who could have predicted that? As for the market drop for 2k skoliak rivens, riven mafia tears are sweat, bring more changes.

About defeating lvl 400 after nerf. Why. Should. I. Care. If you play half a day survival sessions, go get a life.

[Siegecraft]

wow people r angry because the cant hit million of damage to single enemy  some r even saying buff other secondary insted of nerfing catchmoon  hahaha   wow  i understant  there is problem in some utility and heavy attack thing is not working  inn best way i understand  that  but not liking that they nerfed catchmoon they didnt nerf the damage of that thing o9nly the falloff and range it still does damage or people want the pistol to work like a sniper   . wow  really  being angry at paying 2/3k for a riven and it got nerfed  try being angry at a decent thing not on  dumm fu*k S#&amp;&#036;

[-SW-PaStei]

38 minutes ago, awesome_ptchitz said:

Why I hate them? I love them.

About combos and overall mechanic. Now I can actually chose what weapon I want to use, not limiting myself to whips. And I can actually use any combo intuitively, since they are super easy to understand and to do now. This brings diversity which I very much welcome. Combo fluidity is super cool except timing in a few stances (e.g. gunblades), which is not hard to fix and will probably be fixed.

About Maiming Strike nerf. This I say as a man who paid 500 plat for it: good riddance. This mod should not even have existed. It limited weapon diversity to two classes and limited all available playstyles to one. A game should reward skill and flexibility, not pressing the same crouch button for hours. We have already been through the very same discussion with Mesa-Mag combo in Void Tower. One button in afk is not a gameplay, and if LOS introduction and Greedy Pull nerf never happened, WF would never be a game we have now. Complaints were the same: "i put 6 formas on mesa but cannot afk anymore, boo-hoo, what will I do now". Now you will just play the game as an actual game.

About rivens. You've lost some, but got others. Not the first time, by the way, dispositions change, meta weapons change. You can now riven Etherial Daggers and Fangs Prime, who could have predicted that? As for the market drop for 2k skoliak rivens, riven mafia tears are sweat, bring more changes.

About defeating lvl 400 after nerf. Why. Should. I. Care. If you play half a day survival sessions, go get a life.

I'm not a meme strike lover at all.

No, new system is not easy to understand.

There is no combo fluidity from "Chimera" update at all, cause melee momentum is impaired same way as it was.

Mesa-Mag? Um... We talk about melee, keep that in mind if you can.

I don't play half a day on survi. Not much players do.

Most of my rivens for melee was for channeling, mostly for life strike. Now i can put to trash can most of em.

"Now you will just play the game as an actual game" channeling was a tradition, without it, this game does not give any joy.

New melee is just bad. It's getting worse and worse from "Chimera" update.

I need DE reaction RIGHT NOW.

[Chronometria]

Heavy attack is clunky, pointless and costly. I can see the point of heavy slam, but standing still and slowly poking my sword forward just doesn't make sense in a game about fluid, mobile combat against waves of largely low HP foes. Not to mention some important mods rely on a combo counter, which is dumped by that attack.

[awesome_ptchitz]

Il y a 3 heures, -SW-PaStei a dit :

Mesa-Mag? Um... We talk about melee, keep that in mind if you can.

We talk about one-button gameplay with millions of damage. The situation and complaints are exactly the same. And they were the same during Excalibur affinity farm nerf, btw. Should we bring back 2013 Excal then?

Il y a 3 heures, -SW-PaStei a dit :

Most of my rivens for melee was for channeling, mostly for life strike.

Sorry, but I have a hard time believing this until I see these "most" rivens. Sounds more like an excuse for crying, while the nerf of whips and condition overload being an actual reason. By the way, channeling will return in the 3rd phase of rework. Not that the melee needs it so badly, but still.

By the way, in the last 3 days we are swimming in kuva anyway, because of requiem farm. What is the problem to reroll problematic rivens? Honestly, it's not like you did so many rolls yet, since literally nobody rolls specifically after channeling efficiency/damage with other options being range, crit or base damage.

Also, I myself have Maiming Strike and crazy riven for skoliak with range, speed and base damage (no idea how much this riven would cost before the nerf, I farmed and rolled it myself, so amount of effort for that you can imagine). Still, I'm very glad to return to normal melee.

Il y a 2 heures, Chronometria a dit :

Heavy attack is clunky, pointless and costly. I can see the point of heavy slam, but standing still and slowly poking my sword forward just doesn't make sense in a game about fluid, mobile combat against waves of largely low HP foes. Not to mention some important mods rely on a combo counter, which is dumped by that attack.

Strong attacks in most stances (well, there are hammers which have ok strong attack) are quite useless, that I agree, but at least they are not getting in the way either. They are just there, soon everybody will forget about them being there.

Edited November 4, 2019 by awesome_ptchitz

[Mingtzu]

 Here's what I dislike about the new melee so far.

1. Can't stealth kill, can't perform stealth finisher nor do I get stealth bonus for stealth kills

2. Just attacking a container does a stupid three poke attack that is slower then original, is single target and immobilizes me. Bring back original container swipe which is quicker, more of an aoe and allows me to continue moving.