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Alternative to Life Strike?


BLI7Z
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So... is there any alternative to how Life Strike worked before? Like... just keeping on attacking in a fluid way to heal? I don't want to use a tank frame to survive, nor the operator. I just want to keep on slashing enemies and be able to heal myself while keeping that pace like I could do before this. 

BTW, this Life Strike nerf, this heavy attack nonsense and channeling removal, removed all the fun and survival I had with Warframe with any Frame I felt like using. So I just want to also thank DE for ruining my melee fun. 

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15 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

healing return (mod) or some weapons / frames have lifesteal built in 

but yes the lifestrike (nerf) was not well thought out for use and or player ease of use 

I disagree that it wasn't well thought out.

Simply put, a mod that lets a build do everything is fundamentally flawed, and life strike had a tendency to be able to that. Energy is extremely abundant, notably from hunter adrenaline/rage (which, in turn, gets replenished by life strike), granting the potential to pretty much have a system with no drawback. Melee was already the most damaging system, and it had the ability to effectively heal infinitely.

The current system builds a divide between min-maxed DPS and Utility - in effect, putting the 'min' back in min-maxing, since you actually are 'minimising' something to 'maximise' something else. Simply put, in order to get access to the valuable resource of healing from Melee (or some other things like speed or energy), you have to give up damage from scaling mods. It's not even that much, 'standard' builds, whilst definitely weaker, can still run most if not all content reasonably well, especially since you aren't limited to babysitting a combo counter, and thus aren't disincentivised from using guns to supplement melee attacks. 

That's not to say a healing-over-time version of lifestrike couldn't have a place, but the nerf from it being available on pretty much anything was warrented.

 

 

All that having been said, OP, you may want to consider Amalgam Daikyu target acquired, which grants lifesteal to nikanas. It's nowhere near as much as Life Strike, but it's as close as you're going to get.

Edited by Loza03
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That change seemed pointless.

I haven't even used Life Strike in years. Why take up a mod slot when you can just double tap Elevate x2?

Also don't use Adrenaline/Rage on anything because, again why take up a mod slot when you can use Energize.

Lifestrike hardly got used before and I kinda doubt it'll get used now over Healing Return because of spike damage and plenty of other healing methods. Hell, hotkeying Healing Pads works better than current Life Strike. Esp when it's a reactive wind up instead of instant. It might hurt newer players but it did just about nothing globally.

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1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

I disagree that it wasn't well thought out.

Simply put, a mod that lets a build do everything is fundamentally flawed, and life strike had a tendency to be able to that. Energy is extremely abundant, notably from hunter adrenaline/rage (which, in turn, gets replenished by life strike), granting the potential to pretty much have a system with no drawback. Melee was already the most damaging system, and it had the ability to effectively heal infinitely.

The current system builds a divide between min-maxed DPS and Utility - in effect, putting the 'min' back in min-maxing, since you actually are 'minimising' something to 'maximise' something else. Simply put, in order to get access to the valuable resource of healing from Melee (or some other things like speed or energy), you have to give up damage from scaling mods. It's not even that much, 'standard' builds, whilst definitely weaker, can still run most if not all content reasonably well, especially since you aren't limited to babysitting a combo counter, and thus aren't disincentivised from using guns to supplement melee attacks. 

That's not to say a healing-over-time version of lifestrike couldn't have a place, but the nerf from it being available on pretty much anything was warrented.

Personally, ive always found healing return useful on tankier frames, likewise i mainly used lifestrike for the clutch saves that I could pull off ,and granted some survivability to frames I wouldnt take on certain missions. each had their own niche in my builds and play styles as I try to vary it up among my loadouts 

now the two mods, both provide health and prior lifestrike or healing return was a nice method on a melee loadout that were both convenient and logical, you melee and strike an enemies in normal combo strike (or activate channeling to toggle ls on off)

sadly due to recent changes this has now become a problem for lifestrike, given i have tried it on pcs new setup , with both mods in testing.

Life Strike - Heavy Attacks will now regenerate Health. (heavys also costs combo gauge) 

this is a problem; as with basic use it was fluid prior,and easy to use either mod by melee striking normally on both mods. Now lifestrike is relocated only onto a slam heavy attack , which is not always convenient or possible on certain areas/combos. this new implementation is an issue as now players who prior had a choice do not get one, its pretty much healing return for use of function with the new melee combat style. this is an inconvenience for numerous reasons that can vary among players and builds, but some that come to mind.

  • mod capacity total in loadout  HR > LS
  • cost to rank up  HR > LS
  • rate of healing 11+ HP < 20% DAMAGE DEALT
  • player control of healing factor strikes LS>HR
  • rarity obtainment  HR >LS

I wouldnt see this as an issue if say lifestrike granted health only by draining combo counter fully + energy on strikes or something drains to an effect on normal strikes  to make its mechanic more similar to how it worked prior. but this new setup gives us the inability to use it for majority of combo strikes and styles which , Given the point of phase 2 was to promote tenno to adopt a more active fighting style, this life strike change goes against that very core idea that was phase 2's intent. As forcing players to spam jump/slam combos to keep themselves alive is not effective for any more of standard melee combat nor is it convenient to when you actually need to use it. and is simple another spam strike method like spin to win to obtain survability. thats not fun nor is it productive and thus why this methodology is flawed. im not saying the life steal itself in value should not be nerfed or readjusted , maybe adjust LS to be higher mod capacity and require more work to place it into a setup , but as it stands its neither fun nor productive in this new method or useful. imo it could have been added to the rage system later on , making it only active while in that state.

Also highly disagree with that mentality "it warranted nerf" as by that logic , any cross use mod for warframes /weapons should be nerfed as by your statment those mods make a build that" does everything". so then, rage, hunter adrenaline, berserker, bloodrush, healing return , quick thinking, ect type mods should all be nerfed or readjusted to be made in a method thats difficult to use under normal circumstances or  illogical to make them less capable of being useful? i dont think so , as that makes no sense from any perspective, as the reason we use mods and build loadouts is to create useful setups to increase our survivability. sure certain mods become , recommended or very useful at promoting survivability, but that dosnt mean they required. and given people gravitate to making builds streamlined for the best setup for surviving it makes sense via trail / error we all come to similar builds as we all have the same pool of mods available

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2 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

Personally, ive always found healing return useful on tankier frames, likewise i mainly used lifestrike for the clutch saves that I could pull off ,and granted some survivability to frames I wouldnt take on certain missions. each had their own niche in my builds and play styles as I try to vary it up among my loadouts 

now the two mods, both provide health and prior lifestrike or healing return was a nice method on a melee loadout that were both convenient and logical, you melee and strike an enemies in normal combo strike (or activate channeling to toggle ls on off)

sadly due to recent changes this has now become a problem for lifestrike, given i have tried it on pcs new setup , with both mods in testing.

Life Strike - Heavy Attacks will now regenerate Health. (heavys also costs combo gauge) 

this is a problem; as with basic use it was fluid prior,and easy to use either mod by melee striking normally on both mods. Now lifestrike is relocated only onto a slam heavy attack , which is not always convenient or possible on certain areas/combos. this new implementation is an issue as now players who prior had a choice do not get one, its pretty much healing return for use of function with the new melee combat style. this is an inconvenience for numerous reasons that can vary among players and builds, but some that come to mind.

  • mod capacity total in loadout  HR > LS
  • cost to rank up  HR > LS
  • rate of healing 11+ HP < 20% DAMAGE DEALT
  • player control of healing factor strikes LS>HR
  • rarity obtainment  HR >LS

I wouldnt see this as an issue if say lifestrike granted health only by draining combo counter fully + energy on strikes or something drains to an effect on normal strikes  to make its mechanic more similar to how it worked prior. but this new setup gives us the inability to use it for majority of combo strikes and styles which , Given the point of phase 2 was to promote tenno to adopt a more active fighting style, this life strike change goes against that very core idea that was phase 2's intent. As forcing players to spam jump/slam combos to keep themselves alive is not effective for any more of standard melee combat nor is it convenient to when you actually need to use it. and is simple another spam strike method like spin to win to obtain survability. thats not fun nor is it productive and thus why this methodology is flawed. im not saying the life steal itself in value should not be nerfed or readjusted , maybe adjust LS to be higher mod capacity and require more work to place it into a setup , but as it stands its neither fun nor productive in this new method or useful. imo it could have been added to the rage system later on , making it only active while in that state.

Also highly disagree with that mentality "it warranted nerf" as by that logic , any cross use mod for warframes /weapons should be nerfed as by your statment those mods make a build that" does everything". so then, rage, hunter adrenaline, berserker, bloodrush, healing return , quick thinking, ect type mods should all be nerfed or readjusted to be made in a method thats difficult to use under normal circumstances or  illogical to make them less capable of being useful? i dont think so , as that makes no sense from any perspective, as the reason we use mods and build loadouts is to create useful setups to increase our survivability. sure certain mods become , recommended or very useful at promoting survivability, but that dosnt mean they required. and given people gravitate to making builds streamlined for the best setup for surviving it makes sense via trail / error we all come to similar builds as we all have the same pool of mods available

Totally true, I think exactly the same as you in every point you made. 

I guess there's no alternative to something that works similar to Life Strike, everything else is too slow or breaks the fluidity of melee combat. 

A sad day since this change dropped. Hope DE think about it and do something, so I can come back to Warframe some day. 

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2 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

Personally, ive always found healing return useful on tankier frames, likewise i mainly used lifestrike for the clutch saves that I could pull off ,and granted some survivability to frames I wouldnt take on certain missions. each had their own niche in my builds and play styles as I try to vary it up among my loadouts 

now the two mods, both provide health and prior lifestrike or healing return was a nice method on a melee loadout that were both convenient and logical, you melee and strike an enemies in normal combo strike (or activate channeling to toggle ls on off)

sadly due to recent changes this has now become a problem for lifestrike, given i have tried it on pcs new setup , with both mods in testing.

Life Strike - Heavy Attacks will now regenerate Health. (heavys also costs combo gauge) 

this is a problem; as with basic use it was fluid prior,and easy to use either mod by melee striking normally on both mods. Now lifestrike is relocated only onto a slam heavy attack , which is not always convenient or possible on certain areas/combos. this new implementation is an issue as now players who prior had a choice do not get one, its pretty much healing return for use of function with the new melee combat style. this is an inconvenience for numerous reasons that can vary among players and builds, but some that come to mind.

  • mod capacity total in loadout  HR > LS
  • cost to rank up  HR > LS
  • rate of healing 11+ HP < 20% DAMAGE DEALT
  • player control of healing factor strikes LS>HR
  • rarity obtainment  HR >LS

I wouldnt see this as an issue if say lifestrike granted health only by draining combo counter fully + energy on strikes or something drains to an effect on normal strikes  to make its mechanic more similar to how it worked prior. but this new setup gives us the inability to use it for majority of combo strikes and styles which , Given the point of phase 2 was to promote tenno to adopt a more active fighting style, this life strike change goes against that very core idea that was phase 2's intent. As forcing players to spam jump/slam combos to keep themselves alive is not effective for any more of standard melee combat nor is it convenient to when you actually need to use it. and is simple another spam strike method like spin to win to obtain survability. thats not fun nor is it productive and thus why this methodology is flawed. im not saying the life steal itself in value should not be nerfed or readjusted , maybe adjust LS to be higher mod capacity and require more work to place it into a setup , but as it stands its neither fun nor productive in this new method or useful. imo it could have been added to the rage system later on , making it only active while in that state.

The main problem with your suggestion (which would also fit the bill of preventing min/max abuse) is... how would players turn it on or off? Or should players running life strike just constantly lose energy when they hit anyone? The rage system doesn't currently exist, remember, so it can't only be active during that.

There's an element of practicality that must be considered.

2 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

Also highly disagree with that mentality "it warranted nerf" as by that logic , any cross use mod for warframes /weapons should be nerfed as by your statment those mods make a build that" does everything". so then, rage, hunter adrenaline, berserker, bloodrush, healing return , quick thinking, ect type mods should all be nerfed or readjusted to be made in a method thats difficult to use under normal circumstances or  illogical to make them less capable of being useful? i dont think so , as that makes no sense from any perspective, as the reason we use mods and build loadouts is to create useful setups to increase our survivability. sure certain mods become , recommended or very useful at promoting survivability, but that dosnt mean they required. and given people gravitate to making builds streamlined for the best setup for surviving it makes sense via trail / error we all come to similar builds as we all have the same pool of mods available

Rage+Hunter Adrenaline are fine provided their capacity for being used on healing techniques (and subsequently an infinite loop of healing) is as limited as possible. Life Strike+those to granted it to all Warframes, hence being a build that 'does everything'. Berserker is just a swing speed boost, it doesn't let a build cover all tracks any more than a regular attack speed mod. Blood Rush has already been nerfed, and is currently balanced BY Life Strike, just as Life Strike is balanced by it. Big burst healing and maximised damage are both highly desirable, but the player can't have both on the same build, they'll have to sacrifice opportunity space elsewhere or go without. Healing Return A: requires status procs thus only being consistent on some weapons and B: offers much lower, linear healing (a frame like Inaros will get a lot less relatively speaking because it doesn't scale to health). Quick Thinking has the stagger. Note: I play a squishy Warframe far too aggressively and this stagger has ended me more times than I care to admit, so it's definitely doing it's job. A lot of things are more balanced than Life Strike+Hunter Adrenaline used to be.

Simply put, these mods don't do everything on account of the fact that they all have major drawbacks. Pre-rework Life Strike didn't have a meaningful drawback due to the previously-mentioned Rage synergy, and the fact that, for all the fuss, 5 energy really isn't that bad in exchange for a complete health refill.

Edited by Loza03
Realised one part was misleading.
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hace 1 hora, Loza03 dijo:

The main problem with your suggestion (which would also fit the bill of preventing min/max abuse) is... how would players turn it on or off? Or should players running life strike just constantly lose energy when they hit anyone? The rage system doesn't currently exist, remember, so it can't only be active during that.

There's an element of practicality that must be considered.

Rage+Hunter Adrenaline are fine provided their capacity for being used on healing techniques (and subsequently an infinite loop of healing) is as limited as possible. Life Strike+those to granted it to all Warframes, hence being a build that 'does everything'. Berserker is just a swing speed boost, it doesn't let a build cover all tracks any more than a regular attack speed mod. Blood Rush has already been nerfed, and is currently balanced BY Life Strike, just as Life Strike is balanced by it. Big burst healing and maximised damage are both highly desirable, but the player can't have both on the same build, they'll have to sacrifice opportunity space elsewhere or go without. Healing Return A: requires status procs thus only being consistent on some weapons and B: offers much lower, linear healing (a frame like Inaros will get a lot less relatively speaking because it doesn't scale to health). Quick Thinking has the stagger. Note: I play a squishy Warframe far too aggressively and this stagger has ended me more times than I care to admit, so it's definitely doing it's job. A lot of things are more balanced than Life Strike+Hunter Adrenaline used to be.

Simply put, these mods don't do everything on account of the fact that they all have major drawbacks. Pre-rework Life Strike didn't have a meaningful drawback due to the previously-mentioned Rage synergy, and the fact that, for all the fuss, 5 energy really isn't that bad in exchange for a complete health refill.

Yes it had a drawback, of less mod space. It is now useless when you have the operator heals and healing return. The only frames that used lifestrike were the ones that needed it, Tanky frames and cheese frames never needed it now you only limited the options of what frames can and cannot melee. 

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2 hours ago, Hayzemet said:

Yes it had a drawback, of less mod space. It is now useless when you have the operator heals and healing return. The only frames that used lifestrike were the ones that needed it, Tanky frames and cheese frames never needed it now you only limited the options of what frames can and cannot melee. 

pretty much this in summation , fact my operator heals for more hp per sec and is invulnerable while doing it /as is my warframe, feels more cheesy then lifestrike to me , about the only warframe in that setup that does take damage is umbra due to ai 

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Life Strike is a nerf? I've been running it on my Vauban and he's staying alive just fine. I actually think it is easier to use now. Granted, I'm only referring to Lvl 100 - 200 enemies and I have no interest going above that. The only issue I have with Life Strike is that it doesn't seem to work on Thralls and Liches.

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2 minutes ago, Xaero said:

It does work on them.

Might be a bug then. Running Ack and Brunt and my Vauban doesn't get healed when heavy meleeing those enemies. Will test again later for consistency.

Edited by Goodwill
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Not sure what the big deal is.  I find it easier and more effective to use now more than ever.  Before I had to toggle on channeling, spam E until healed up, then toggle channeling back off.  Now I just quickly tap space, aim down and hit heavy melee (q for me.)  Heavy slam = instant aoe lifedrain.  Unranked Life Strike.  Heavy Slam Damage.  No wind up.  AOE.  What's not to like?

Edited by tekmansam
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Surprised to see people groan about Life Strike apparently being nerfed, I just see it as an obvious choice for weapon configs meant for not so much endurance runs but that single or couple hits you need to take something down later, plenty of hard hitting melees with high status chance that you just put a couple of of those 60/60 on, life strike, maybe killing blow, or just focus on making that one hit do a 1-3k damage, with heavy attacks easily already with no combo built up in the 20+k digits by default.

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10 hours ago, tekmansam said:

Not sure what the big deal is.  I find it easier and more effective to use now more than ever.  Before I had to toggle on channeling, spam E until healed up, then toggle channeling back off.  Now I just quickly tap space, aim down and hit heavy melee (q for me.)  Heavy slam = instant aoe lifedrain.  Unranked Life Strike.  Heavy Slam Damage.  No wind up.  AOE.  What's not to like?

Losing all your stacks which for a crit blood rush build is a big damage loss, sticking with Daikyu amalgam target acquired and a nikana. 

Edited by francisdark
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I like Healing Return, but melee weapons are so strong that at mid to high level, you end up killing enemies in 1 or 2 strikes, so you might end up with 0 proc on the enemy and 0 HP back

Also even when maxed, you usually end up with slash and corrosive and maybe a 3rd element on the enemy, so that's 33 HP back. On fast melee weapons that can be ok, but heavy weapons are punished

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  • 1 month later...
On 2019-11-05 at 2:19 PM, BLI7Z said:

So... is there any alternative to how Life Strike worked before? Like... just keeping on attacking in a fluid way to heal? I don't want to use a tank frame to survive, nor the operator. I just want to keep on slashing enemies and be able to heal myself while keeping that pace like I could do before this. 

BTW, this Life Strike nerf, this heavy attack nonsense and channeling removal, removed all the fun and survival I had with Warframe with any Frame I felt like using. So I just want to also thank DE for ruining my melee fun. 

Yup, pretty much Healing Return.

Heavy Attack hits really freaking hard and you can build it up very quickly, though. If you hold on to your Heavy Attack, the Life Strike mod can get you thousands of HP in self-healing. Just keep on slicing and dicing through enemies, then pick somebody and WHAM. Big hit, big heal.
The downside is, of course, you'd need to build around that. I recommend Drifting Contact and Killing Blow in combination with Life Strike.

Dunno why you call it nonsense when Channeling was practically worthless.

Edited by DrakeWurrum
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