Make Liches Autokill or Leave Mission if Ignored for too long.

[NitoNiwatori]

I think the best is make lich gone if not engage or try to kill within time .. that can solve problem of player don't want to fight their lich 

I see 3 cases why people don't want to fight their own lich
1. don't want to die and raise lich level
2. not ready (they feel don't gain anything from fighting it)
3. think it is better way to let lich runaround spawn some thralls 

they have reason behind that ... so make it easier for all just give lich have kind of timeout if not engage by target ?

I support this idea instead of force kill on who don't want not ready or can't fight their lich

Edited November 7, 2019 by NitoNiwatori

[Kalarual]

1 minute ago, RX-3DR said:

Why not just cut out the middleman, have your lich say hi and you just die instantly unless you have have the mods in the correct order. You're just downgrading all choice and strategy involved into a passive system of a dice roll.

At a certain point, you have to understand that in a multiplayer game, people have different objectives and will do things differently. Yelling at them to do things your way and yelling at the developers to punish them is far worse than someone giving you the suggestion of running a mission solo to raise the odds of you getting the results you want. The people telling you that it's easier to run a mission solo to kill your Lich aren't yelling at DE to prevent killing the lich during co-op session.

Yes, but you see, I actually want my lich max rank and farm murmers at the same time. Telling me to do that all by myself is going to take incredibly longer than doing it in a group.

and now that the entire system is optional, there's no reason outside of more murmers to let it run free.

[Aldain]

4 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Why not just cut out the middleman, have your lich say hi and you just die instantly unless you have have the mods in the correct order. You're just downgrading all choice and strategy involved into a passive system of a dice roll.

Don't give them ideas...

[Tinklzs]

5 minutes ago, Kalarual said:

Telling me to do that all by myself is going to take incredibly longer than doing it in a group.

Which is one reason why the system needs to be changed/the grind reduced. Some players are forced into solo-only. 

 

[RX-3DR]

13 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Don't give them ideas...

As far as the current system is set up, if they are going to go the route of removing player agency, the Liches would have counted as required kills for situations like Defense. You already see this with many other parts of the game, they aware of the system they've made where the Mobile Defense console is halted when Sentients are around, Stalker and co. where they are required to be killed for a defense wave to end, or the G3 where you are immediately given the choice to extract. As far as all sensibilities check out, it leans towards DE made a specific effort to ensure that poking the Lich at any given time is entirely optional.

What no one expected, is for people to get so upset over player agency and jump at the opportunity to establish their preferences as the norm. This is no different from demanding everyone to pick up every syndicate medallion in a syndicate mission, getting upset that they aren't doing what you're yelling at them to, and then going to DE and saying, "For every syndicate medallion not picked up, we should penalize their syndicate standing!"

Edited November 7, 2019 by RX-3DR

[zoffmode]

Just pull the cord on your PC and then reconnect after a while. Then you can try to kill his Lich and get murmurs for it. 

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, RX-3DR said:

What no one expected, is for people to get so upset over player agency and jump at the opportunity to establish their preferences as the norm. This is no different from demanding everyone to pick up every syndicate medallion in a syndicate mission, getting upset that they aren't what you're yelling at them to, and then going to DE and saying, "For every syndicate medallion not picked up, we should penalize their syndicate standing!"

Is it sad that I honestly didn't expect the community to go to that level of utter stupidity?

I expected petty complaints and complaining about RNG, but I couldn't have expected DE to have an auto-kill as a mechanic and people to be utterly moronic enough to think that it is acceptable game design.

That either says I'm too optimistic or too naive. 

[Kalarual]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

Is it sad that I honestly didn't expect the community to go to that level of utter stupidity?

I expected petty complaints and complaining about RNG, but I couldn't have expected DE to have an auto-kill as a mechanic and people to be utterly moronic enough to think that it is acceptable game design.

That either says I'm too optimistic or too naive. 

Either that or dying doesn't matter in a five minute mission because

A) you're not there to level up

B) it's a five minute mission most of the time, or five waves, so if you run out of revives in that span you deserve it.

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, Kalarual said:

Either that or dying doesn't matter in a five minute mission because

A) you're not there to level up

B) it's a five minute mission most of the time, or five waves, so if you run out of revives in that span you deserve it.

I'm only going to say this once.

Revives. Aren't. The. God. Damn. Point. Of. Contention.

The issue is players not having any control over if they live or die if they want to drive the Lich off. Players have no choice BUT to die and THAT is the problem, it is a death only for the sake of forcing the player to die.

It is moronic game design and only discourages players from wanting to interact with the system, and were it not for this idiotic design choice you never would have had to make this damn thread in the first place because players would have been significantly more willing to drive off a Lich if the player had any actual control over not dying instantly to drive them off.

Players are not the problem, the problem is DE taking the actual choice out of a players hands which makes them take the only alternative that actually DOES give them a choice by ignoring the Lich.

Telling a player in a game "you have no choice but to fail, no amount of skill or knowledge will ever let you win until I say you can" is a fast track to irritating your playerbase, and demanding punishments for the players who are against this stupid design choice will only make the entire issue worse.

You never would have had to make this thread if players didn't need to auto-die to drive their Lich off.

[Aadi880]

2 hours ago, Kalarual said:

We already have people ignoring their Liches and letting them run wild around the Mission, Irradiating players and making defense targets and teammates die, when asked to kill the lich they wither don't reply or say "Nah"

 

This is annoying and hampers gameplay, since we now have a permanent boss running around the map killing people. Can we make the lich teleport to the target and autokill if left alone for too long, or something similar, just to erase them from the map?

This sounds like a terrible idea if the desired outcome is to remove said lich from the map.

A failed attempt to kill a lich results  in a planet takeover, resulting in a loss of collecting rewards from any mission type in said planet, sorties included. Not to mention that is will rank up the lich, which results in a faster planet node takeover rate. This will also increase the level of enemies to sortie 3 level, should the lich reach R5. More than that, but you also risk giving everyone else a host migration because "whats the point of staying in the mission if I know that this combo is wrong?" The only advantage of failing an attempt is giving you 10 murmurs, which is not worth it.

In two days, your rank 5 lich would have taken over more than half of the star-chart, And I can assure, majority of warframe players do no play warframe non stop. They have a real life too.

Not ranking up your lich allows you to collect reward from other planets, gives you more time for yourself as there is a lower takeover rate. Increases murmur spawn rate, does not increase enemy level of controlled planets, and this is especially useful in case of you dont have the required murmurs or mods.

if you want to test your mod order, do it solo. If you are fine with your lich ranking to 5 on failed  attempts, then you are also strong enough with doing a defense mission solo as well.

Its a dumb idea to try get your lich spawn while in a pub. If you still want to do so, a better solution is to have the lich leave saying "I guess you are fine taking over more sectors then." an which he leaves taking over 3 more nodes of the player. Then pray to RNGesus that your lich would spawn and not someone else's. However, only DE can implement this.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Aadi880

[Kalarual]

13 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I'm only going to say this once.

Revives. Aren't. The. God. Damn. Point. Of. Contention.

The issue is players not having any control over if they live or die if they want to drive the Lich off. Players have no choice BUT to die and THAT is the problem, it is a death only for the sake of forcing the player to die.

It is moronic game design and only discourages players from wanting to interact with the system, and were it not for this idiotic design choice you never would have had to make this damn thread in the first place because players would have been significantly more willing to drive off a Lich if the player had any actual control over not dying instantly to drive them off.

Players are not the problem, the problem is DE taking the actual choice out of a players hands which makes them take the only alternative that actually DOES give them a choice by ignoring the Lich.

Telling a player in a game "you have no choice but to fail, no amount of skill or knowledge will ever let you win until I say you can" is a fast track to irritating your playerbase, and demanding punishments for the players who are against this stupid design choice will only make the entire issue worse.

You never would have had to make this thread if players didn't need to auto-die to drive their Lich off.

All right, cool it.

[Kalarual]

5 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

This sounds like a terrible idea if the desired outcome is to remove said lich from the map.

A failed attempt to kill a lich results  in a planet takeover, resulting in a loss of collecting rewards from any mission type in said planet, sorties included. Not to mention that is will rank up the lich, which results in a faster planet node takeover rate. This will also increase the level of enemies to sortie 3 level, should the lich reach R5. More than that, but you also risk giving everyone else a host migration because "whats the point of staying in the mission if I know that this combo is wrong?" The only advantage of failing an attempt is giving you 10 murmurs, which is not worth it.

In two days, your rank 5 lich would have taken over more than half of the star-chart, And I can assure, majority of warframe players do no play warframe non stop. They have a real life too.

Not ranking up your lich allows you to collect reward from other planets, gives you more time for yourself as there is a lower takeover rate. Increases murmur spawn rate, does not increase enemy level of controlled planets, and this is especially useful in case of you dont have the required murmurs or mods.

if you want to test your mod order, do it solo. If you are fine with your lich ranking to 5 on failed  attempts, then you are also strong enough with doing a defense mission solo as well.

Its a dumb idea to try get your lich spawn while in a pub. If you still want to do so, a better solution is to have the lich leave saying "I guess you are fine taking over more sectors then." an which he leaves taking over 3 more nodes of the player. Then pray to RNGesus that your lich would spawn and not someone else's. However, only DE can implement this.

Don't lich only spawn if you pick THEIR mission, otherwise it's the normal map?

[Test-995]

49 minutes ago, Kalarual said:

Yes, but you see, I actually want my lich max rank and farm murmers at the same time. Telling me to do that all by myself is going to take incredibly longer than doing it in a group.

and now that the entire system is optional, there's no reason outside of more murmers to let it run free.

Pro tip: doing solo has guaranteed chance to spawn your lich, and it's only once per like 5 or so of missions, and you only need to do it 4 times.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Test-995

[Althaline]

42 minutes ago, Kalarual said:

All right, cool it.

Instead of addressing the points raised by that post, you decided to try to get them to leave. This tells me something very simple: you didn't want to discuss this topic, you wanted an echo chamber and now you have to deal with people who disagree with you (and for good reasons that you refuse to confront).

[Aldain]

56 minutes ago, Iamabearlulz said:

Instead of addressing the points raised by that post, you decided to try to get them to leave. This tells me something very simple: you didn't want to discuss this topic, you wanted an echo chamber and now you have to deal with people who disagree with you (and for good reasons that you refuse to confront).

[Emolition]

Let do this everyone that get killed by thier lich get a legendary core and 1k platinum that should be a BIG carrot. If that don't work for them and they keep ignore tax them 100% on all planets so they don't get loot until they deal with the lich. 😈

[Excelion-Skyclaw]

Gee, its a new system that is like a week old, its natural it will have issues, and its obvious not everything can be tweaked in 15 mins, give them a few days and they'll come with something that's good middle ground of what a Lich as a personal enemy is supposed to be, and still not make you feel its "die and make your life harder or ignore and have everyone else whine for not needing to have their lives harder" xD 

There are literally dozens of solutions DE can employ and all require careful discussions, not just have the first idea that comes to mind be implemented in 15 mins and see if it goes - that is not really good practice for anything.

I kinda like the idea of having a way to force the lich to leave if either ignored or have been broken (and no first dates with parazon have happened) but it also needs to be a way to have the lich - level up as an enemy. Because as its now you'll just find his weakness, make up to 3 attempts and kill him before he ever reaches lv 5 and becomes actually a somewhat pain. So it's not really black and white situation. Having your lich just teleport to you and kill, if you don't go to him to instantly die 😄 is kinda pointless 

[-EGT-Helix-]

I can allways say the same.

1. Lich allways spawn at Lvl5 (no leveling anymore).

2. Lich should Fokus hard his Tenno following him and versus teleport or something else. No despawn after time! Hey that's a hunting mission, not Hello Kitty Farmingsimulator. Like.... Lich says: hmm u don't wanna fight against me? OK I come back later. Bye-bye my friend. Hello? Are you crazy!

3. Players can only join a squat with 3 difftent Requiem Mods

4. At spawn of a Lich he will convert a fix value of Thralls. Not over time more and more. So it's waste if time to wait to kill him.

At last I must say, if you don't wanna kill your lich, go solo. Don't say to players who wanna fight against Lich they have to go into solo missions. This Game part is to fight against the Lich, not running away!

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

6 hours ago, Kalarual said:

So you think it's better for people to make others have to deal with a rank 5 lich killing them and the defense targets cause they don't like something? I dunno, pissing off three other people just cause you don't like something is pretty, dunno, selfish.

It’s public matchmaking. Get good

[JackHargreav]

#*!% that.

[Test-995]

1 hour ago, ChaosSabre said:

Yea that one used to work if there wasn't a max cap of thralls you can get in a mission now. Which was clearly a huge oversight by DE.

Yeah there isn't, did you even tried, or actually read the patchnote?

[Test-995]

Just now, ChaosSabre said:

"Fixed ability to spawn more than the maximum amount of Thralls per mission if you leave them waiting for Mercy. Literally."

Lich spawns count into that. At least from what I noticed after patch.

I got 10+ spawns just fine, and more importantly(?), i didn't have to leave them on mercy state from the beginning.

And there is no mention for liches, it could be fixed in next patch but this is definitely not about lich's ability to converting thralls right now.

[Test-995]

1 minute ago, ChaosSabre said:

Could have just been bad RNG then in my case. Since I left him in solo for a while and there were only two thrall spawns.

Definitely, or perhaps he didn't had enemies nearby.

That ability is conversion and not summoning, you need enemies first.

[Kalarual]

13 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

Instead of addressing the points raised by that post, you decided to try to get them to leave. This tells me something very simple: you didn't want to discuss this topic, you wanted an echo chamber and now you have to deal with people who disagree with you (and for good reasons that you refuse to confront).

No, smart one, thats me telling him to cool down and not get angry with me. I don't care who stays or goes.

Also looks like you can only encounter your lich and thralls if you pick their specific mission.

So instead of trying to avoid your lich by just picking the regular mission, you're forcing your permanent lich upon other players instead, halting their progress, and occasionally failing their mission for them, by purposefully picking their mission. 

"we shouldn't be forced to die!"

yet they bring their radiation infused lich into missions and watch as teammates kill each other.

and I'm selfish. All right, that's some intense logic.

 

Anyway I'm done with this thread, the public has just been as toxic as I assumed they would be, taking their frustration with DE out on other people who have also been suffering by the "content" and just want SOMETHING to be done.

have a nice life.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Kalarual

[Tinklzs]

26 minutes ago, Kalarual said:

Anyway I'm done with this thread, the public has just been as toxic as I assumed they would be

Not really surprising when you don't listen to what is said. Stepping on toes the whole way then wondering why others are mad at you. Most of this thread is people repeating the obvious to you over and over, and you feigning ignorance over and over.  

You have a nice life too, it's a nice day out today.