Make Liches Autokill or Leave Mission if Ignored for too long.

[Kalarual]

Just now, Renegade343 said:

Yes, because we want players to further not engage in this new content.

They already aren't. You can't "not do something" to a larger extent. I can only stand around so hard.

[Etan-gK]

it's my lich, if I don't want to fight it just to level it up so it can go away to please you, then there's nothing you can do, ignore it and go on with the mission, they tend to have a hard time following anyway

[Renegade343]

2 minutes ago, Kalarual said:

They already aren't. You can't "not do something" to a larger extent. I can only stand around so hard.

Yeah, and with your suggestion, they're not going to even bother with creating a Lich.

[Kalarual]

Just now, Etan-gK said:

it's my lich, if I don't want to fight it just to level it up so it can go away to please you, then there's nothing you can do, ignore it and go on with the mission, they tend to have a hard time following anyway

The fact they're killing people isn't the only problem they have by existing.

[kevoisvevo]

17 minutes ago, Kalarual said:

I said the target. Meaning the guy he's there to kill. Why would a guy who hates you go "eh, not worth it" and peace out. I also said "or something" which also could be he says you're boring and leaves.

 

I just love how hostile people are getting at me over a request to fix a severely annoying issue I am hit with for the past few hours. Because these people aren't killing their lich, mine isn't spawning.

well cause the problem truly lies on DE's design end with the kuva liches. why restrict to only 1 lich per time, why make it killable to parazon mods, why not just add a timer for the kuva lich to go away. judging from your post you went straight to killing the tenno who wants to ignore their kuva lich. that's like saying the stalker should get an auto kill on you if you don't want to fight them. see where i am coming from?

[Aldain]

Just now, kevoisvevo said:

see where i am coming from?

Even if the TC could they would ignore it because they seem to only want to spite other players.

[Kalarual]

1 minute ago, kevoisvevo said:

well cause the problem truly lies on DE's design end with the kuva liches. why restrict to only 1 lich per time, why make it killable to parazon mods, why not just add a timer for the kuva lich to go away. judging from your post you went straight to killing the tenno who wants to ignore their kuva lich. that's like saying the stalker should get an auto kill on you if you don't want to fight them. see where i am coming from?

The stalker autokills you, or makes your life hell until you kill it anyway. AFAIK he draws you in if you get too far until he is dead.

[EmberStar]

Just now, Kalarual said:

Well since they're already copying Shadow of Mordor just make it a mod which makes you humiliate them instead, or like how shadow of war had, you eventually make them more and more insane.

For one thing, Shadow of Mordor / Shadow of War didn't NEED mods to arbitrarily gate fighting a rival orc.  You did it with GAMEPLAY.  If they killed you it was because you slipped up, or got surrounded, or fell off a cliff.  Not because you failed to roll your saving throw on a 1d8 six times in a row.  The orc captains had something like a personality, with different quirks and weaknesses you could do something about AS YOU FACED THEM.  "Right, Ogren the Poet is immune to melee attacks, but he's terrified of bees.  All I need to do is let him keep rhyming his taunts at me while I lure him under that nest of giant evil wasps..."  You could also get rid of them while they were still basically level zero (if you already had all that you wanted, or even just because you found them annoying.)  There were reasons TO FIGHT THEM, or to fight alongside the ones who had joined your side.  (You wanted to keep your followers alive, to help you fight one of the five Warlords and to eventually replace them.)

Everything about the current Lich system is a negative interaction.  If I attack them, I die, they get stronger.  If I push them off of a planet, they get stronger.  If I've already revealed all three runes but don't OWN all of them, there's no possible way to win by attacking them.  They took exactly the WRONG pieces from the Nemesis system, and built an entire gameplay mechanic around that.  I don't enjoy failing.  And attacking a lich is almost an automatic failure.  I DO NOT ENJOY THIS.  So I ignore them.  The longer I can go before they start leveling up, the easier it is to collect the murmurs, because their thralls are lower level as well.

In my opinion, it should be ENTIRELY possible to kill your lich without EVER allowing them to level up.  You should be rewarded for attempting it, and failing (dying) should be RARE.  Team mates should be *rewarded* for assisting you.  Currently, NONE of those things are true.  The system is almost exactly backwards, in every possible way.  Adding even harsher punishments now that people can simply refuse to kill the Kuva Maggot will have one, and only one effect - you're going to be playing solo whether you want to or not, because NO ONE is going to want to get another lich after getting rid of their current one.

[kevoisvevo]

2 minutes ago, Kalarual said:

The stalker autokills you, or makes your life hell until you kill it anyway. AFAIK he draws you in if you get too far until he is dead.

not in my case, i have a stalker spawn on me multiple times and i couldn't find him on the map so i usually extracted

[Kalarual]

5 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

For one thing, Shadow of Mordor / Shadow of War didn't NEED mods to arbitrarily gate fighting a rival orc.  You did it with GAMEPLAY.  If they killed you it was because you slipped up, or got surrounded, or fell off a cliff.  Not because you failed to roll your saving throw on a 1d8 six times in a row.  The orc captains had something like a personality, with different quirks and weaknesses you could do something about AS YOU FACED THEM.  "Right, Ogren the Poet is immune to melee attacks, but he's terrified of bees.  All I need to do is let him keep rhyming his taunts at me while I lure him under that nest of giant evil wasps..."  You could also get rid of them while they were still basically level zero (if you already had all that you wanted, or even just because you found them annoying.)  There were reasons TO FIGHT THEM, or to fight alongside the ones who had joined your side.  (You wanted to keep your followers alive, to help you fight one of the five Warlords and to eventually replace them.)

Everything about the current Lich system is a negative interaction.  If I attack them, I die, they get stronger.  If I push them off of a planet, they get stronger.  If I've already revealed all three runes but don't OWN all of them, there's no possible way to win by attacking them.  They took exactly the WRONG pieces from the Nemesis system, and built an entire gameplay mechanic around that.  I don't enjoy failing.  And attacking a lich is almost an automatic failure.  I DO NOT ENJOY THIS.  So I ignore them.  The longer I can go before they start leveling up, the easier it is to collect the murmurs, because their thralls are lower level as well.

In my opinion, it should be ENTIRELY possible to kill your lich without EVER allowing them to level up.  You should be rewarded for attempting it, and failing (dying) should be RARE.  Team mates should be *rewarded* for assisting you.  Currently, NONE of those things are true.  The system is almost exactly backwards, in every possible way.  Adding even harsher punishments now that people can simply refuse to kill the Kuva Maggot will have one, and only one effect - you're going to be playing solo whether you want to or not, because NO ONE is going to want to get another lich after getting rid of their current one.

You're gonna have a hard time knowing what order to use the murmers are in without failing a few times. so unless they change that aspect, them leveling up will be an inevitability.

 

I'd say focus on just banishing your lich and avoid the content til it's changed, there's nothing else to do except be a possible constant annoyance to your team everytime you happen to join that node.

 

No, I don't want the players killed out of spite, it's more for immersive or lore reasons, to keep it true to what the content is trying to be. 

I don't hate the players doing it, I completely get why people don't want to do it. I hate the results of it happening.

But you really think a queen is gonna make a grineer godlike and then let them run away from you five minutes later?

Edited November 7, 2019 by Kalarual

[0_The_F00l]

14 minutes ago, Kalarual said:

Well since they're already copying Shadow of Mordor just make it a mod which makes you humiliate them instead, or like how shadow of war had, you eventually make them more and more insane.

Your idea works. But then we'll have people getting mad that you need a mod to do that and how it wastes a slot. 

Considering they are not even going to use parazon mods on the lich before , there is no wasted slot, not that the parazon mods add any specific bonus so all the parazon mods are wasted mods until you get the right one. 

Full suggestion topic here:

I believe in providing solutions, not just whining about the problems. 

 

[kevoisvevo]

11 minutes ago, Kalarual said:

They already aren't. You can't "not do something" to a larger extent. I can only stand around so hard.

and how do you suggest DE should encourage players to engage the new content? by restricting them? destroying team work? forcing people to kill their new liches? at least arbitrations and eidolons are optional but this kuva lich system aint

[Kalarual]

1 minute ago, kevoisvevo said:

and how do you suggest DE should encourage players to engage the new content? by restricting them? destroying team work? forcing people to kill their new liches? at least arbitrations and eidolons are optional but this kuva lich system aint

it is avoidable to an extent. Don't kill the larvaling. whoever kills it gets the leech. Don't kill it.

[Kalarual]

3 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Considering they are not even going to use parazon mods on the lich before , there is no wasted slot, not that the parazon mods add any specific bonus so all the parazon mods are wasted mods until you get the right one. 

Full suggestion topic here:

I believe in providing solutions, not just whining about the problems. 

 

I wasn't trying to whine man. I want a change, and I did post my thoughts. make them kill the player or something.

[EmberStar]

2 minutes ago, kevoisvevo said:

and how do you suggest DE should encourage players to engage the new content? by restricting them? destroying team work? forcing people to kill their new liches? at least arbitrations and eidolons are optional but this kuva lich system aint

It is now (as of the latest hotfix.)  But since basically NOTHING about the system is explained in-game, someone would only know that if they read the hotfix notes.  Which many people don't.  And it doesn't help anyone who has a lich they can't currently get rid of (for example, because RNGesus is taking the piss and they can't get one of the required Requiem mods to get rid of the lich.)

[0_The_F00l]

1 minute ago, Kalarual said:

I wasn't trying to whine man. I want a change, and I did post my thoughts. make them kill the player or something.

Not specifically directed towards you, 

But you did post in general discussion and not as a fully thought out suggestion in feedback. 

[Kalarual]

Just now, EmberStar said:

It is now (as of the latest hotfix.)  But since basically NOTHING about the system is explained in-game, someone would only know that if they read the hotfix notes.  Which many people don't.  And it doesn't help anyone who has a lich they can't currently get rid of (for example, because RNGesus is taking the piss and they can't get one of the required Requiem mods to get rid of the lich.)

They did make thralls drop relics making the mods extremely easy to get at least. thats a right direction.

[EmberStar]

1 minute ago, Kalarual said:

They did make thralls drop relics making the mods extremely easy to get at least. thats a right direction.

Only barely, and it still buries the needed mods behind a few layers of RNG.  You still have to slog through randomly getting the right relic, waiting for a Kuva fissure to spawn on a mission type that doesn't completely suck, and then randomly get the mod you need as a random reward.

A better system would have been to actually copy the Nemesis system and allow the player to defeat their lich through *gameplay,* rather than gating it behind a random sequence of random mods that randomly drop from random relics that are received as random rewards and can only be opened by playing random Kuva fissure missions.  (With random players who might randomly bail the instant they get the one mod THEY need, so that's fun too.)

[TARINunit9]

23 minutes ago, Kalarual said:

Their lich having a party on the map prevents my lich from spawning

I know, re-read my post with the knowledge I know that

24 minutes ago, Kalarual said:

but you could also, dunno, just banish your lich and never kill a larvaling again

And miss out on those three cool new weapons?

[-EGT-Helix-]

1st Remove leveling the lich. Let them spawn allways as a Lvl5 lich.

2nd Only players with 3 different requiem mods in her parazon can join a random squad. Before they have to farm relics to get 3 mods.

 

[Kalarual]

7 minutes ago, -----Helix----- said:

1st Remove leveling the lich. Let them spawn allways as a Lvl5 lich.

2nd Only players with 3 different requiem mods in her parazon can join a random squad. Before they have to farm relics to get 3 mods.

 

I wonder can you only run into liches if you pick THEIR mission when deploying?

[Hyohakusha]

Absolutely not. Letting Liches stay around for a bit so they convert random grineer into thralls always nets you more murmurs. Faster filled murmur meters means faster dead liches. Since there's no longer a shared gain of murmurs on a stab attempt, letting liches convert thralls is the best way for everyone to grind. These people demanding that people kill their liches are flat out making that grind worse for themselves and everyone else in the room. Then these same people go on to complain about that grind, a problem which they helped create. "Kill your lich so mine has a chance at spawning" versus "Lets farm some murmurs off this lich so everyone figures out their mods faster". One is unbelievably selfish, the other obviously is not.

"Oh but I already know the combination." So then why are you in a pub match. Go solo your lich one on one. Don't want to solo it? Recruiting chat and friends exist. Don't try to push your inefficient selfishness on other people in pub matches when you had several other options. You chose to play on pub. And again, by not letting your lich run around and convert some enemies before you stab them, you're just screwing yourself and everyone else over in the long run.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, Kalarual said:

We already have people ignoring their Liches and letting them run wild around the Mission, Irradiating players and making defense targets and teammates die, when asked to kill the lich they wither don't reply or say "Nah"

 

This is annoying and hampers gameplay, since we now have a permanent boss running around the map killing people. Can we make the lich teleport to the target and autokill if left alone for too long, or something similar, just to erase them from the map?

So we’ve graduated from “Autokill” if we engage “our” Lich to “Autokill” If we don’t?

How about we “Autokill” the game design that created this mess...

[Kalarual]

On 2019-11-07 at 5:15 AM, Hyohakusha said:

-snip-

Now you're telling people to go solo something in an online multiplayer game. And you call us stupid. Okay buddy. I'm not sure why you came here, to be abusive?

You could ignore the lich, farm murmers, sure. but then he rad procs someone and they kill the defense target, which has happened to me. multiple times. Then where does all that murmer go? 

Not everyone wants a crazy lich running around on the map rad proccing everyone like you do. If you're gonna just come in here to be abusive to people don't even comment.

[RX-3DR]

Why not just cut out the middleman, have your lich say hi and you just die instantly unless you have have the mods in the correct order. You're just downgrading all choice and strategy involved into a passive system of a dice roll.

1 minute ago, Kalarual said:

Now you're telling people to go solo something in an online multiplayer game. And you call us stupid. Okay buddy. I'm not sure why you came here, to be abusive? 

At a certain point, you have to understand that in a multiplayer game, people have different objectives and will do things differently. Yelling at them to do things your way and yelling at the developers to punish them is far worse than someone giving you the suggestion of running a mission solo to raise the odds of you getting the results you want. The people telling you that it's easier to run a mission solo to kill your Lich aren't yelling at DE to prevent killing the lich during co-op session.