Why are people insisting on attempting on killing a Lich?

[Raqiya]

I just want my Lich to spawn so i can try staabbing it. don't hold up the queue.

[SordidDreams]

Just now, Raqiya said:

I just want my Lich to spawn so i can try staabbing it. don't hold up the queue.

It's like you haven't read a word of what's been said in this thread.

[Raqiya]

5 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

It's like you haven't read a word of what's been said in this thread.

I'm only leaving my point of view based upon the initial topic.

[SordidDreams]

Just now, Raqiya said:

I'm only leaving my point of view based upon the initial topic.

Ah, so my impression was correct. Your point of view is selfish and unreasonable. See previous posts for an explanation of why that is.

[Raqiya]

Just now, SordidDreams said:

Ah, so my impression was correct. Your point of view is selfish and unreasonable. See previous posts for an explanation of why that is.

Sure my impression is selfish but I wouldn't call it unreasonable. With the way the system currently works you should expect people to want to kill their Lich either be for Murmurs or to try a new combination. If you're going public you should be expecting this and I can't imagine anyone would want a un-kiallable enemy running around spewing status proccs such as radiation everywhere.

In my point of view it is more selfish to go public and not kill your Lich denying the opportunity for others in your group. I don't blame the person I blame the system

[SordidDreams]

35 minutes ago, Raqiya said:

Sure my impression is selfish but I wouldn't call it unreasonable. With the way the system currently works you should expect people to want to kill their Lich either be for Murmurs or to try a new combination. If you're going public you should be expecting this and I can't imagine anyone would want a un-kiallable enemy running around spewing status proccs such as radiation everywhere.

In my point of view it is more selfish to go public and not kill your Lich denying the opportunity for others in your group. I don't blame the person I blame the system

Again, read previous posts for an explanation why that's wrong. In short, for most people the murmur gain from a failed lich kill is not worth the decreased murmur farm speed in future thrall missions due to their increased difficulty as a result of leveling up the lich. Keeping a lich alive also allows it to convert normal enemies into thralls, effectively increasing the thrall cap of the mission.

Yes, I agree the system is set up very badly and needs fundamental revisions.

Edited November 11, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Test-995]

31 minutes ago, Raqiya said:

Sure my impression is selfish but I wouldn't call it unreasonable. With the way the system currently works you should expect people to want to kill their Lich either be for Murmurs or to try a new combination. If you're going public you should be expecting this and I can't imagine anyone would want a un-kiallable enemy running around spewing status proccs such as radiation everywhere.

In my point of view it is more selfish to go public and not kill your Lich denying the opportunity for others in your group. I don't blame the person I blame the system

In my point of view it is more selfish to go public and not contributing for thrall spawns, only real problem is how de made the system works and nothing else.

[Wakata]

If YOU want something, go solo

[BlackVortex]

14 hours ago, Franticlly_Skeptic said:

It is the strangest BS I have seen in a while. Everyone insisting that you attempt to kill your Lich weather you want to or not. They do not gain anything from the Lich. They do not get a weapon, they get nothing. If it is a mission, that is not defense, you can just move past it without any issues yet people are freaking out about killing it. I do not get it, They act like it is a troll when all it is knowing you do not have the Requiems to do anything, and choosing not to continue leveling the Lich. My choosing to attempt a kill only affects me so again why is it so many get upset at it? Are people not moving outside their own bubble?  

 

14 hours ago, Franticlly_Skeptic said:

I will use the last mission as an example. We had 1:30 seconds left in a survival when my lich showed up. The group I was with freaked that I did not want to kill it so refused to leave. No skin off my back. They ended up going till they ran out of air, all in an attempt to "troll" me, their words not mine. This is way more toxic than someone not wanting to level or kill their lich, yet here we are.  That is not someone in a rush to kill their Lich, that is people being toxic for the sake of being toxic.  BTW you can not extract from the group in a survival if it is on a Kuva Lich mission. Not sure that is intended. 

 

14 hours ago, Franticlly_Skeptic said:

It is not just you dying, it is your Lich leveling. Many times it will spawn way more that the the filling of or getting Requiems. The only thing you get for not succeeding is a higher level Lich, and mobs you have to fight next time. None of these people have to deal with that. 

You have been answered already:

14 hours ago, MasterControl said:

People may be hoping to get their lich to spawn. You not stabbing yours holds up the queue and prevents others from spawning theirs.

 

[Braneman]

2 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Again, read previous posts for an explanation why that's wrong. In short, for most people the murmur gain from a failed lich kill is not worth the decreased murmur farm speed in future thrall missions due to their increased difficulty as a result of leveling up the lich. Keeping a lich alive also allows it to convert normal enemies into thralls, effectively increasing the thrall cap of the mission.

Yes, I agree the system is set up very badly and needs fundamental revisions.

Isn't the level of enemies determined by the host's lich level? If so shouldn't you be going solo or in a pre-made group if you don't want higher level enemies. I haven't seen anybody counter that point yet in this thread and if that's true and you're in public groups you're doing things wrong. That was posted on the first page of this thread, you can't go around accusing people of not reading the thread when you haven't even read the first page.

[SordidDreams]

Just now, Braneman said:

Isn't the level of enemies determined by the host's lich level? If so shouldn't you be going solo or in a pre-made group if you don't want higher level enemies. I haven't seen anybody counter that point yet in this thread and if that's true and you're in public groups you're doing things wrong. That was posted on the first page of this thread, you can't go around accusing people of not reading the thread when you haven't even read the first page.

That's not a point, that's an assertion. You say not going in a pre-made group when you don't want to kill the lich is doing it wrong? I say not going in a pre-made group when you do want to kill the lich is doing it wrong. There, countered.

[Skye_Archer]

15 hours ago, taiiat said:

people seem to be full of it anyways, as multiple Liches have appeared simultaneously in Multiplayer Missions before, so it isn't even definitive that one Lich prevents another anyways.

 

From going through 20ish Liches, I can safely say from my experience; Multiple liches only show up if a host migration happens (Sometimes what looks like multiple Liches is actually an illusion duplicate (you can't damage that one)). Otherwise on a stable host, no other lich will spawn until the active one is disposed of. But forcing a host migration on a Kuva Lich mission will break the current mission more often than not!

[blwf]

honestly this can be so easily solved by just making it so that the Liches will despawn automatically after a set time like maybe 2 minutes

[Raqiya]

55 minutes ago, blwf said:

honestly this can be so easily solved by just making it so that the Liches will despawn automatically after a set time like maybe 2 minutes

That creates a new can of worms being the fact some people might not be able to kill them in the alloted time.

[Uhkretor]

3 hours ago, blwf said:

Liches will despawn automatically after a set time like maybe 2 minutes

Only if its not in active combat. My Lich was active yesterday for 50 minutes, and I ended up failing the mission because both the Stalker and the G3 appeared at the same time.

 

... I swear I want such a thing to happen more often, now that was a challenging 5vs1 fight.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Uhkretor

[taiiat]

11 hours ago, Skye_Archer said:

From going through 20ish Liches, I can safely say from my experience; Multiple liches only show up if a host migration happens (Sometimes what looks like multiple Liches is actually an illusion duplicate (you can't damage that one)). Otherwise on a stable host, no other lich will spawn until the active one is disposed of. But forcing a host migration on a Kuva Lich mission will break the current mission more often than not!

i appreciate the data.

[Braneman]

13 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

That's not a point, that's an assertion. You say not going in a pre-made group when you don't want to kill the lich is doing it wrong? I say not going in a pre-made group when you do want to kill the lich is doing it wrong. There, countered.

If you're complaining about higher level enemies and your host is bringing higher level enemies then either it's not a problem to have higher level enemies or you should be going to LFG to find pre-made groups or going solo so you can avoid the host bringing in higher level enemies. Am I getting across that I'm talking about your point about higher level enemies taking longer yet? Also you haven't bothered to counter or even look into if the enemies are higher level depending on the host's lich level, you don't shut me down by cherrypicking around the point of my comment and declaring yourself the winner.

Just to have a definitive statement for you to definitively block you from cherrypicking again since you have trouble getting the point of what I'm saying: IF the host's lich level determines the level of the enemies AND you, that is to say YOU are not the host AND you are in a PUBLIC GROUP, THEN, your argument about running into higher level enemies is meaningless because if you're in a PUBLIC GROUP and NOT THE HOST you're going to be running into the level of enemies determined by the HOST's lich. That's my argument here, IF the HOST does not determine the level of the enemies for that mission then my argument has no weight at all, if it does then your point about your leveled up lich making missions take longer because of higher level enemies doesn't work because you're going to be encountering those higher level enemies anyway but only in PUBLIC GROUPS where all this friction is occurring and where all this discussion started.

I can't think of a way to explain it more clearly than that.

[SordidDreams]

14 minutes ago, Braneman said:

If you're complaining about higher level enemies and your host is bringing higher level enemies then either it's not a problem to have higher level enemies or you should be going to LFG to find pre-made groups or going solo so you can avoid the host bringing in higher level enemies.

Orrrr you can do what a lot of people do and just go into a pub on the assumption that if you do get a host that has leveled up their lich, they've done so because they can handle the high-level mobs and will carry you.

16 minutes ago, Braneman said:

IF the host's lich level determines the level of the enemies AND you, that is to say YOU are not the host AND you are in a PUBLIC GROUP, THEN, your argument about running into higher level enemies is meaningless because if you're in a PUBLIC GROUP and NOT THE HOST you're going to be running into the level of enemies determined by the HOST's lich

But you never know if you're going to be host or not, so you just have to flip the coin and see. Either you are host and you get your easy enemies, or you're not and you get whatever level enemies the host has, which they are presumably able to handle. I hope this is not too difficult to understand without random words being capitalized.