Titania changes were good, only need minor fixes

[KynaTiona]

I adore the recent changes to Titania, and they're making me incredibly happy to go back to maining her. However, there are a few minor issues with her that I believe could be fixed with very little dev time that would dramatically improve Titania players' quality of life even further:

• The archwing-styled flight is incredibly fun and gives her dramatically more speed, making her energy-starved kit easier to maintain by virtue of moving through levels faster. However, losing her old sprint movement does dramatically reduce her agility in a number of situations, and it'd be hard to adapt to archwing-styled flight in close corridors without getting to practice with that slower, more stable sprint movement she had before. That said, since her aim movement speed is virtually identical to her non-sprint movement speed, you could just make sprint movement her default and make the walking speed movement only accessible while aiming. This would make her incredibly maneuverable and quick in a wider variety of situations, while appeasing players regardless of which movement scheme they enjoy.
   
• The additional razorflies via Tribute is pretty nice, and having Titania's razorflies pick up Tribute for her makes the ability far more worthwhile on account of taking so much less time. However, the razorflies still fail to keep up with Titania very well, meaning they often aren't there to pick up Tribute. Even with a full set of 10 razorflies, Titania is often left defenseless. This could be fixed just by giving them the usual unexplained companion teleport that seems to apply to everything from Rescue targets to kubrow. I get the impression their max speed isn't scaling with Titania's, especially not her new afterburner max speed, meaning something like this is going to be required for more open maps regardless of how well you make them follow through complex interiors.
   
• Being able to use the operator out of Razorwing means the game is playable without having to repeatedly toggle Razorwing, making certain mission types and environmental objects far more fluid than they were previously. Currently however, when transferring back to Titania, she will teleport to the location of the operator but retain her original orientation, which can be very disorienting. It's definitely the least important on the list, but it seems like an easy fix, so I included it.

Thank you for the fixes you made, and I hope they'll offer a bit of momentum to additional minor fixes such as these!

EDIT: Removed one of the bullet points on account of not being able to reproduce my own bug. [Shrugs]

Edited November 26, 2019 by KynaTiona
Removed one of the bullet points on account of not being able to reproduce my own bug.

[Melanholic7]

theyd better add some heal augument and finaly made melee action fluid and worth using (i mean dex melee). Cause right now its useless. but w/e im just a whining scrub i suppose

[KynaTiona]

That's been done? Life Strike on Diwata allows you to zoom between targets stealing life as you go. Given how many layers of damage resistance Titania is flying around with (Razorwing gives 50% evasion, Dust gives 50% enemy miss rate, Aviator gives 40% damage reduction, razorflies distract multiple targets at once), it really doesn't cause me much trouble if I have to spend 2 - 3 seconds to heal up.

Regardless, that's a comment best suited to the larger Titania discussion threads, not a small one-off thread like this.

[Nichivo]

8 hours ago, KynaTiona said:

That said, since her aim movement speed is virtually identical to her non-sprint movement speed, you could just make sprint movement her default and make the walking speed movement only accessible while aiming. This would make her incredibly maneuverable and quick in a wider variety of situations, while appeasing players regardless of which movement scheme they enjoy.
 

 If you want to sprint all the time, just turn on toggle sprint when you play Titania. Let the rest of us enjoy the added control, and options. Forcing toggled sprint on everyone, is a terrible idea, and clearly does not appease all players. 

[KynaTiona]

On 2019-11-26 at 10:35 PM, Nichivo said:

 If you want to sprint all the time, just turn on toggle sprint when you play Titania. Let the rest of us enjoy the added control, and options. Forcing toggled sprint on everyone, is a terrible idea, and clearly does not appease all players. 

You're not understanding at all. Currently, pressing sprint triggers the afterburners, rather than the actual sprint movement she used to have. With her old movement, I never found a good reason to not always be sprinting aside from when aiming, so I don't see much of a problem making it her new default movement. This would still allow for the afterburner movement she has now, while also making her viable for anyone who doesn't like the afterburner. This is the "appease all players" option.

[Rogunz]

On 2019-11-26 at 10:35 PM, Nichivo said:

 If you want to sprint all the time, just turn on toggle sprint when you play Titania. Let the rest of us enjoy the added control, and options. Forcing toggled sprint on everyone, is a terrible idea, and clearly does not appease all players. 

The problem is that the ability to do that was removed. You used to be able to freely fly at any speed and shoot in a different direction than the one you were moving in..

Now you are locked into constant forward movement at high speeds and can only shoot things that are directly in front of you. It's a massive downgreade that gives you way less control and reduces your survivability by forcing you to fight in the slower hover mode. The only way you can gain any of the survivability back is by using a high power razorwing blitz mode so you can hover around faster.

33 minutes ago, KynaTiona said:

This would still allow for the afterburner movement she has now, while also making her viable for anyone who doesn't like the afterburner. This is the "appease all players" option.

Changing how afterburners are activated and turning normal sprint back the old flight model would also work. Activating them by simply pressing forwards while sprinting is really awkward and that keybind is probably the reason why they decided to get rid of the ability to control our speed.

 

 

 

[Nichivo]

1 hour ago, KynaTiona said:

You're not understanding at all. Currently, pressing sprint triggers the afterburners, rather than the actual sprint movement she used to have. With her old movement, I never found a good reason to not always be sprinting aside from when aiming, so I don't see much of a problem making it her new default movement. This would still allow for the afterburner movement she has now, while also making her viable for anyone who doesn't like the afterburner. This is the "appease all players" option.

I understand completely, and since I have sprint/roll unbound, and bind sprint, and roll separately. You would be removing the option I personally use. Less control is never something I will be okay with. Asking to dumb the game down with a terrible option, because it is how you want to play, does not appease everyone.

What part of I do not want an automatic sprint toggle tied to the movement, are you not understanding? 

[Nichivo]

32 minutes ago, Rogunz said:

The problem is that the ability to do that was removed. You used to be able to freely fly at any speed and shoot in a different direction than the one you were moving in..

Inertia, and momentum changes have nothing to do with what is being discussed. If they do then the OP should rewrite everything, and use the correct term. I myself will miss some things, but the current changes are an actual improvement. 

Op stated they wanted the sprint to be normal move speed, I want both speed options. We never even discussed the old inertia, and momentum.

[Kojinus]

This new forced forward movement when sprinting is honestly the most garbage change they could have ever introduced. Not sure who decided "This is okay, this is fun" when they were implementing it. 0/10, would like old sprint back. Or at least a way to split sprinting and afterburner into 2 separate keys. 

[Rogunz]

6 hours ago, Nichivo said:

Op stated they wanted the sprint to be normal move speed, I want both speed options. We never even discussed the old inertia, and momentum.

They want the current normal speed changed to allow you to move and manuver as fast as you used to be able to while sprinting. Telling them to sprint all the time doesn't fix their problem since you can't really fight while sprinting anymore.

Turning the normal sprint mode back into what it used to be and leaving afterburners as they are with a different keybind would fix the main problems even if people still disagree on wanting inertia

 

1 hour ago, Kojinus said:

Or at least a way to split sprinting and afterburner into 2 separate keys.

They technically are, the problem is that afterburners are activated by just pressing forwards while sprinting. That makes keeping them off awkward and is why we are stuck with the constant movement.

 

 

[EinheriarJudith]

they could just remove the sprint entirely and lower afterburners speed a little.

[Ikusias]

14 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

they could just remove the sprint entirely and lower afterburners speed a little.

No please, altough I'm not on board with how afterburners were implemented, they've been the key to solve Titania's razorwing biggest problem, its utterly dismal speed

[Andele3025]

3 hours ago, Rogunz said:

They technically are, the problem is that afterburners are activated by just pressing forwards while sprinting. That makes keeping them off awkward and is why we are stuck with the constant movement.

What might be a problem for some people is that if you use afterburners (in both AW and Titania razorwing), and release the forward key, it doesnt go down to just sprint, unlike when releasing sprint reduces her to base speed.

Personally my far bigger issue is that sprint doesnt respect other directional inputs (thus not allowing you to aim in one direction while moving in another at a reasonable pace) and you cant move at any speed other than base when aiming (and aiming with just sprint doesnt do anything).

[EinheriarJudith]

8 hours ago, Ikusias said:

No please, altough I'm not on board with how afterburners were implemented, they've been the key to solve Titania's razorwing biggest problem, its utterly dismal speed

i was hoping they would move afterburner to sprint and they did. one or the other imo. i dont hardly use the slow sprint anyway.

[alseltas]

 

On 2019-11-27 at 10:56 AM, KynaTiona said:

That's been done? Life Strike on Diwata allows you to zoom between targets stealing life as you go. Given how many layers of damage resistance Titania is flying around with (Razorwing gives 50% evasion, Dust gives 50% enemy miss rate, Aviator gives 40% damage reduction, razorflies distract multiple targets at once), it really doesn't cause me much trouble if I have to spend 2 - 3 seconds to heal up.

Regardless, that's a comment best suited to the larger Titania discussion threads, not a small one-off thread like this.

Dust has same effect as evasion and additive to it so they make enemies -100% weapon accuracy. It it similar to Heavy Calibre/Magnum Force. Still RNG things or some enemies oneshot you in late game contents.

[Ikusias]

14 hours ago, alseltas said:

 

Dust has same effect as evasion and additive to it so they make enemies -100% weapon accuracy. It it similar to Heavy Calibre/Magnum Force. Still RNG things or some enemies oneshot you in late game contents.

I can't find terminal evidenc of this, but apparently enemy accuracy scales with level, leading to increasing crit chance as well, thus Titania's fixed malus to enemy accuracy apparently can be overtook by enemy bonuses becoming useless.

To clarify Titania's tribute and eveasion are fixed -xx% malues, not actual percentages off of total enemy accuracy

[selig_fay]

6 часов назад, Ikusias сказал:

I can't find terminal evidenc of this, but apparently enemy accuracy scales with level, leading to increasing crit chance as well, thus Titania's fixed malus to enemy accuracy apparently can be overtook by enemy bonuses becoming useless.

To clarify Titania's tribute and eveasion are fixed -xx% malues, not actual percentages off of total enemy accuracy

I think the precision reduction works fine. Simply opponents high levels can be more accurate than ordinary opponents. For example, if the enemy level 1 has a rose sight of 3 degrees, then Titania will increase this rose by 50%, that is 4.5 degrees. But if opponent 100 level has rose in 1 degree, then we get already 1.5 degrees. That's how it feels. Maybe the pvp in the simulacrum can clarify this.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

I don`t know about you guys but I think she will get a revisit next year due to the fact that she`s going to get primed after Ivara. If I were to improve her abilities, here is what I would do;

Titania:

 

1st ability:

·       Increase ability radius from 5m to 10m.

·       Instead of them rag dolling, make them just hover in the air.

·       Enemies affected are vulnerable to damage.

·       Shooting enemies will have a 50% chance to drop health orbs. When picked up, it will send out a 15m wave of health regeneration giving her and allies 10 health a second for 5 seconds.

 

Synergy: if you use the 2nd ability on an enemy affected by the 1st ability, they have a 75% chance to drop energy orbs. It can also move the hovering enemy.

 

·       (Augment) When adding status affects to enemies, when a affected enemy is killed, the status will spread to nearby enemies in a 15m radios increased the damage and status duration by 50%.

 

2nd ability:

·       All buffs effectiveness will be increased to 75%.

·       The range of enemies affected should be in a 50m radius.

·       Thorns – the damage reflection should be 1000+ to make it useful. This can be increased by strength mods

·       Full Moon – it should also increase companion’s and butterfly’s movement speed.

·       Holding the ability will cycle through each buff highlighting enemies by chosen energy colours for five seconds.

·       Buffs should be absorbed into her no matter the distance.

·       Enemies that survive the hit their damage output is reduced by 50%.

Synergy: dust & thorns applies to 4th ability butterflies.

 

3rd ability:

·       Each enemy affected will increase the range by 2m to a cap of 10m.

·       The enemy affected will stay stationary in the air.

·       You can shoot at affected enemy loading elemental damage into it depending on what mods you have on your weapons. The butterflies and the explosion will release the elemental damage. Visually loading fire damage will show the butterflies and enemies on fire and will show fire explosion upon deactivation.

 

4th ability:

·       While using 4th ability, make the other ability cost half the energy.

·       Get rid of the inertia. When you stop, she stops instead of it keep on moving, it’s very annoying. (include this in archwing)

·       When it comes to movement, she should move as smoothly as it she is on the ground or better.

·       While having the diwata (exalted sword) equipped, you can close the gap on enemies within 35m. This makes it to where you can reach the enemies quicker.

·       You can use L1 and R1 (ps4 controller) to do a quick dodge manoeuvre.

·       She is able to interact with the environmental objects while in this form. (hacking, opening doors)

·       (Synergy) If you cast the 1st ability on enemies, it will give the diwata 30% more damage when used on them.

 

[selig_fay]

25 минут назад, (PS4)Vexx757 сказал:

· Get rid of the inertia. When you stop, she stops instead of it keep on moving, it’s very annoying. (include this in archwing)

You're not playing the game, are you? 

[Cyresea]

Titania is just abysmal for me to play right now. She's my most played Frame by far, my easy favorite. And she just feels like a shadow of her former self. Nowhere near as effective as she usually is for me.

Her old movement was nearly perfect, I have no idea why they changed it into this. I felt like I had perfect control, maneuverability. Speed left a little to be desired, but that's why I often run Razorwing Blitz. ...So I can ping-pong off of walls while I try to head through doors, but also so I could cross the Plains of Eidolon in five seconds flat.

 

The new movement, I just feel like I've lost so much. Instead of having one catch-all movement (well technically two, but I never turned Sprint off because I never needed to), I now have basically three movement modes: Accurate and maneuverable but slow as hell, WARP SPEED but continuous movement forward, or a slightly more manageable speed but which also continuously propels me in the direction I'm looking. There's no longer just a... multipurpose movement mode. Instead of me zipping about, I'm now having to play her in a slower, more stop-and-go style.

I think the best compromise was stated above in this topic: Implement her old Sprint functionality into her baseline movement (again there was almost never a reason to turn it off), and keep the new afterburner speed boost attached to her current Sprint. Everyone should be happy then.

I'd also like to get her general inertia / floatiness back, movement on both Titania and the Archwing feels very unnatural, especially Titania + Razorwing Blitz. Maybe it feels better on Archwing missions set in space, but for anything set in a place with gravity, it just feels strange.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Cyresea