How powerful are the Operators?

[TenebraeAeterna]

Well, let's put it this way...

Rell is a Tenno, and we witnessed how powerful he was. He had the ability to project his psyche vast distances across the universe, create deadly manifestations of himself out of pure energy, and infuse his madness into those who were tied to him via their devotion to the Red Viel's cause. In combination to that, he was bound to his Warframe and only partially in it to win it...as his sanity was destabilizing and not yet fully consumed by the madness he suffered. It's quite possible that Rell was actually by the strain of keeping the veil between the Origin Universe and the Void up, as to ensure The Man In The Wall remained where he is.

So, the Tenno have the potential to be as powerful as Rell with the possibility to progress beyond such, as Rell was likely weak and inhibited by his condition.

Also, when we die...we're shown an image of the operator floating in the Void...so it's possible that, despite the Tenno and Lotus believing them mortal...they're actually immortal and, upon death, are simply "banished" back to the Void until they can regain enough strength to "wake" back within the Origin system. ...however, most view the Tenno as mortal in the physical. Even so, Rell's spiritual manifestation existed after his Warframe's destruction...putting souls into the canon, or at least energy manifestations of the psyche that are, for all intense and purpose, souls. It's possible that Tenno exist in a state that's between life and death, immortal...with the potential to ascend to a higher plane of existence whenever they reach a certain point............or remain within the physical existence we know at will. Much like the character Anubis within the popular television show "Stargate: SG1." So, my guess would be that the Tenno have the potential to become extremely powerful and transcend beyond anything within the known universe of Warframe...with the exception of The Man In The Wall, who isn't technically within the universe to begin with. 😛

[Shoelip]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Dishinshoryuken said:

I have come to think that the comics of WARFRAME are a different storyline than the game. I read the comics from the path of Excal getting caught by the Grinny to Mag showing up to help Little Duck and the blind girl as well as the story of Rell and there are some things that do not show in them.

First there is the fact that the frames actually have hard times with the enemies they faced in these stories. This seems to stem from the fact that the enemies do not drop ammo, health orbs, or energy as they do in our game. This shows it is another universe. This also happens with Rell. We see the Adults shot by the Tenno get up after being shot as well as there being no info of Harrow and Rell in Lotus info banks. This goes along with this being another universe as well  With that info, we now know that Rell is from another universe which somehow dropped into ours...which could explain the Ten-Zero not having any children as it never did ..but in another universe, it did (I sti stand by the idea the Ten-Zero had no children at all and the force in the Void created them by using the DNA from the crew on the ship....like a petri dish sampling using their flesh and it's connection powers).

Which tells us that the Void Demons are not really part of our universe but they came here and had an effect on the Frames. They harness some powers from the Void but as we have seen, they are not as strong as a free Frame. It's powers can kill them as well as take them out of the Void. Death only falls on the Void Demons twice in the game which ends up with time jumping back OR a deja Vu that you have done this before.

I use the Void Demon as a tool instead of seeing it as the main being of the game as there are some things that say they are not what they seem to be.

The powerups are just a concession to gameplay convenience.  The comics aren't set in a different universe from the game any more than the cut-scenes are set in a different universe from the gameplay.  You're just supposed to suspend disbelief.  The Zariman did have children.  The Tenno are them.  That line in the Ember lore where the interviewer says their were no children is clearly framed as an obvious lie.  "There were no children.  That would violate protocol."  The Orokin, like any fascistic government,s don't really have any qualms about dishonesty.  The "Void Demons" are just the name that the Orokin gave the Zariman children because the Orokin culture is one of institutional xenophobia and narcissism.  There's a reason Ballas mentions "The Vain Faith" ... The Orokin evidently portrayed themselves as gods, and did anything in their power to maintain that image, even falling for their own lies.

[MBouh]

First, tenno are basically immortal, like orokin. They can only be killed by something with oro, like lich or orokin or sentients. That's the first reason imo orokin were so afraid of them: they are among the very limited number of creatures capable of killing them.

Second, operators in game are extremely powerful. Arcanes and focus schools make them tremendously more powerful than what you start with.

The passive you can unbound, first, already push your operator to the level of a fragile warframe. With a focus school and magus, you can definitely reach warframe powers. Magus lockdown obviously, but you also have virtuous to change your Amp damage type to viral for example that will hurt enemies far more than void.

You only need to see how the stalker get murdered by your operator when he is not lvl80+, and I'm not even fully kitted in unbound passive, magus and virtuous. The Amp is enough for this.

 

[Chaemyerelis]

Powerful enough to be immortal 😛

[Cloudyvisage]

I always imagined us as getting a higher and higher power level, my impression of the old war operators is that they probably had much more power but it was also more focused due to Orokin manipulation, ala, the schools, this would imply that a Tenno would choose a school and train with that in mind exclusively whereas that is clearly not the case anymore, when we train our void powers now there is no requirement to stay in a school, we are less focused but also unchained.

The operator when you start out is feeble and dies at the drop of a hat to practically anything, by the time you get through the schools your operator is a beast, capable of outputting serious damage and taking a lot as well, and that's just a projection, meaning it's possible if we were physically present we could manifest greater effects. I imagine Rell as the necessary sacrifice, fitting for his edgy character, he was the sacrifice to keep the seal in place, for any Diablo fans, he was Tal Rasha, sacrificed to fight with a powerful being for as long as he could maintain his own mind, in a phenomenal twist, his condition was helping him survive the mind numbing isolation required to keep the Man in the Wall away.

Rell was powerful, once, in fact, he was like us, unchained by the Orokin, or at least much different to how we were, his powers developed to be on a massive scale, the Rell we see at the end is but a shadow of what he once was, a barely alive, semi-sentient shell. He won so many battles but the war was always in the favor of the Man in the Wall.

Ah, I love the Warframe lore once you dive into it. Fun.

[Loza03]

22 minutes ago, Cloudyvisage said:

I always imagined us as getting a higher and higher power level, my impression of the old war operators is that they probably had much more power but it was also more focused due to Orokin manipulation, ala, the schools, this would imply that a Tenno would choose a school and train with that in mind exclusively whereas that is clearly not the case anymore, when we train our void powers now there is no requirement to stay in a school, we are less focused but also unchained.

The operator when you start out is feeble and dies at the drop of a hat to practically anything, by the time you get through the schools your operator is a beast, capable of outputting serious damage and taking a lot as well, and that's just a projection, meaning it's possible if we were physically present we could manifest greater effects. I imagine Rell as the necessary sacrifice, fitting for his edgy character, he was the sacrifice to keep the seal in place, for any Diablo fans, he was Tal Rasha, sacrificed to fight with a powerful being for as long as he could maintain his own mind, in a phenomenal twist, his condition was helping him survive the mind numbing isolation required to keep the Man in the Wall away.

Rell was powerful, once, in fact, he was like us, unchained by the Orokin, or at least much different to how we were, his powers developed to be on a massive scale, the Rell we see at the end is but a shadow of what he once was, a barely alive, semi-sentient shell. He won so many battles but the war was always in the favor of the Man in the Wall.

Ah, I love the Warframe lore once you dive into it. Fun.

One neat detail I like about Rell is the fact that in his comic, he's the only one to use void powers. The other Tenno, despite being in situations where they'd be useful, don't. Since it seems to only activate on command when properly focused, that makes sense, since they're kids and don't have the appropriate amount of focus yet.

Except Rell. Rell is autistic. Autsim often manifests in something called hyperfocus. 2+2=4. Rell was probably even more busted than the other Tenno long before anything else.

[TenebraeAeterna]

5 hours ago, Cloudyvisage said:

I always imagined us as getting a higher and higher power level, my impression of the old war operators is that they probably had much more power but it was also more focused due to Orokin manipulation, ala, the schools, this would imply that a Tenno would choose a school and train with that in mind exclusively whereas that is clearly not the case anymore, when we train our void powers now there is no requirement to stay in a school, we are less focused but also unchained.

The operator when you start out is feeble and dies at the drop of a hat to practically anything, by the time you get through the schools your operator is a beast, capable of outputting serious damage and taking a lot as well, and that's just a projection, meaning it's possible if we were physically present we could manifest greater effects. I imagine Rell as the necessary sacrifice, fitting for his edgy character, he was the sacrifice to keep the seal in place, for any Diablo fans, he was Tal Rasha, sacrificed to fight with a powerful being for as long as he could maintain his own mind, in a phenomenal twist, his condition was helping him survive the mind numbing isolation required to keep the Man in the Wall away.

Rell was powerful, once, in fact, he was like us, unchained by the Orokin, or at least much different to how we were, his powers developed to be on a massive scale, the Rell we see at the end is but a shadow of what he once was, a barely alive, semi-sentient shell. He won so many battles but the war was always in the favor of the Man in the Wall.

Ah, I love the Warframe lore once you dive into it. Fun.

Also interesting to note is that Rell never had any of the training that the other Tenno did.

That weakened shadow we ultimately face, who's been driven to madness in his attempts to keep the Void at bay, is as powerful as he is without any training. Granted, he also didn't have his powers inhibited by Margulis...so there was much more time to explore them. Still, Rell is a very good indication of how powerful the Tenno can be...eventually, and a pretty decent indication that they could become even more powerful.

[(PSN)Dishinshoryuken]

On 2019-11-29 at 4:44 AM, Olphalarepth said:

It is canon with what we play. A certain dialogue with a certain NPC proves it

 

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Little duck

 

Is it really?

You recall the whole thing about the Quills is they have a person who sees different dimensions and times converging on certain areas and people. The fact that Little D doesn't event speak to the Frames says the Quills are on a separate journey than the Warframes. In the comic, she does talk to the Frame. Which is different than the game.

Rell being from another Universe would explain how Lotus had no idea about him or Harrow. And then when his Prime comes out, it will be all "oh yeah, Harrow was around during the Orokin era....but Lotus never saw him,"

 

[Loza03]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Dishinshoryuken said:

Is it really?

You recall the whole thing about the Quills is they have a person who sees different dimensions and times converging on certain areas and people. The fact that Little D doesn't event speak to the Frames says the Quills are on a separate journey than the Warframes. In the comic, she does talk to the Frame. Which is different than the game.

Rell being from another Universe would explain how Lotus had no idea about him or Harrow. And then when his Prime comes out, it will be all "oh yeah, Harrow was around during the Orokin era....but Lotus never saw him,"

 

LD wasn't working for the Quills during the Comic. She makes no reference to them, and it's implied that she meets them following those events since the quills take in the Blind Girl.

As for Rell,  Lotus knew all the Tenno Margulis had helped, but Margulis never put Rell in the Second Dream. That means Rell wasn't a part of the Tenno program in the same way all the others are. We know Lotus isn't omniscient - she isn't instantly aware of everyone who ever used a Warframe or transference, because she didn't know about Silvana and the Silver Grove.

[velsomnia]

If you want a good hint then take either Nidus or an infected frame (Frame that has a pink cyst growing on its neck) and go stand it near enough to the infested room to open the door, then press 5 and walk the operator into that room. 

[Otaiken]

In gameplay operators provide incredibly powerful utility. They might not be the best at killing stuff but that's not what they're for.

As far as lore is concerned operators can be as powerful as DE's writers want. As for why Orokin were so scared of them... well, void itself has been shown to have a consciousness of its own in lore. Tenno are the only humans with direct conduit to the void. It's the thought of what might come knocking at the door of our reality should the wielder lose control that is scary rather than some flashy powers themselves.

I think that is what the alignment system is supposed to represent. As rudimentary as it is the light "choices" represent rejection of void corruption and power while dark ones represent acceptance of the void entity (presumably) to gain more power. Maybe this will get flashed out with the Duviri Paradox and we'll get some gameplay effects along with it.

[(XBOX)Doragonzuk]

4 hours ago, LocoWithGun said:

In gameplay operators provide incredibly powerful utility. They might not be the best at killing stuff but that's not what they're for.

As far as lore is concerned operators can be as powerful as DE's writers want. As for why Orokin were so scared of them... well, void itself has been shown to have a consciousness of its own in lore. Tenno are the only humans with direct conduit to the void. It's the thought of what might come knocking at the door of our reality should the wielder lose control that is scary rather than some flashy powers themselves.

I think that is what the alignment system is supposed to represent. As rudimentary as it is the light "choices" represent rejection of void corruption and power while dark ones represent acceptance of the void entity (presumably) to gain more power. Maybe this will get flashed out with the Duviri Paradox and we'll get some gameplay effects along with it.

I like where you are going but I think that the full light or dark choices are the bad ones as if you look at your moral compass if you are full light there is a raging fire maybe it means that the more you reject the void the more it consumes you and if you go full dark you will drown in the void ocean so the correct way to go is balance or be at ease swimming within its debts.

Edited December 3, 2019 by (XB1)Sirmike2529

[-Kittens-]

On 2019-11-28 at 12:18 AM, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

those are just throwaway examples which can be changed, the point is that I think if Operators had even more power capabilities that complement the player's preferred style (which is evident by the Focus School they prefer to run with), people would likely enjoy using Operator mode a lot more and consider using it even outside of where Operator mode is forced, such as Kuva Siphons/Floods.

No to any of that. Operators aren't fun because they have no place in the game, and are the best example of what happens you when you force a vanity concept into a game that already has a set combat loop and mechanical amplifiers for that loop.

Operators already literally break any form of adversity this game can give you, and the enemies have zero counters to it. Literal I win button, and they don't need buffs in that regard. They aren't fun because they weren't ever fun to begin with.

[Mints]

27 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

No to any of that. Operators aren't fun because they have no place in the game, and are the best example of what happens you when you force a vanity concept into a game that already has a set combat loop and mechanical amplifiers for that loop.

I'm not seeing any logic here, just personal opinion.

27 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

Operators already literally break any form of adversity this game can give you, and the enemies have zero counters to it. Literal I win button, and they don't need buffs in that regard. They aren't fun because they weren't ever fun to begin with.

Sorry, I really can't take what you just said seriously when "challenge" in this game is essentially fighting scaled up enemies that can stunlock and one shot kill you after one mistake. The only "adversity" anyone faces in this game is an ever-increasing stat curve.

[-Kittens-]

Then you aren't looking hard enough because Operators pretty much make the "stat curve" a line.

Edited December 3, 2019 by -Kittens-

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, -Kittens- said:

Operators already literally break any form of adversity this game can give you, and the enemies have zero counters to it. Literal I win button, and they don't need buffs in that regard. They aren't fun because they weren't ever fun to begin with.

Enemies have zero counters to ANYTHING unless you count nullifiers. Most, if not all abilities that affect regular enemies do so without any real means of fighting back. Operators are in a bad place power-wise, I grant you, but they are for many of the same reasons frames are, or gear is.

The whole damn game needs a balance pass, including and especially the enemies and whilst Operators aren't exempt from that, they are far from the cause of it.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

They're supposed to be walking, talking nuclear reactors that only recently learned how to not accidentally destroy everything around them. They're supposed to be very powerful, but very vulnerable. Personally, I wish that there was a greater consequence to dying in Operator Mode. 

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

Canonically speaking our void powers break the laws of physics, time, space, reality, etc.

So we can technically be alll powerful.  The issue is what can we actually control.  We use amps to help harness our abilities.  And the warframes to fight directly.

But even if operater mode dies we are still alive and reform new bodies at will.

Look at rell his body died but his mind fought the void for centuries but was consumed.  

Look at void corrupted vor. Or the entity called the man in the wall.

Or the duviri paradox.

The techno powers are a double edged sword.  So long as we don't go completely insane from the void. The techno are basically gods.

Edited December 4, 2019 by (PS4)Kakurine2

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

Does Warframe even have a "canon?" Each story update seemingly retcons the last one.

[velsomnia]

44 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Does Warframe even have a "canon?" Each story update seemingly retcons the last one.

I think they are trying to work on it next year with Duvari and such.