Spin2Win is Better Than Ever

[8faiNt]

So, now what? Is ninkondi going to get nerfed? are you guys going to delete spin attacks or replace them? Buff Delete Maiming Strike save it from it's ''Misery''? I mean I dont know what I can say like it literally contributes nothing and spin2win is still alive. All that nerf to maiming strike and yet you ve failed to kill spin2win, DE. Its all for nothing...

Dont get me wrong Im not complaining about maiming nerf It had it coming Im just trying to see the point of nerfing Maiming if you're going to have melees like ninkondi,absolutely broken also,the fact that maiming contributing nothing to spin attacks just makes me curious what DE actually trying to do. Just delete the mod already no reason to make it an expensive version of Ammo Drum

 

Cant do anything about the vid quality

Edited December 1, 2019 by 8faiNt

[___Operator___]

You can get the same results if not better with sacrificial steel, this isn't really a good example of showing spin2win but how high attack speed weapons can build the counter  rapidly. What skews your results even more is the riven, which should never be taken into account when trying to demonstrate things of this nature.

[GPrime96]

Can’t see them deleting that Mod since Heavy Attack Scythes are the new Spin2Win.

[8faiNt]

18 minutes ago, Monochromeatic said:

You can get the same results if not better with sacrificial steel, this isn't really a good example of showing spin2win but how high attack speed weapons can build the counter  rapidly. What skews your results even more is the riven, which should never be taken into account when trying to demonstrate things of this nature.

I think what you should understand from this thread is that Maiming is obsolete, has no effect and needs to be changed.

also, you can literally get pretty much the same result with p fury instead of the riven and sac. steel instead of the maiming/drifting contact. try it for yourself. and riven cant skew the result since it was in my build for the whole time while i was using maiming and drifting contact. (unless you're suggesting that its increasing my DPS)

and I dont really need to get a result its basically showing that ninkondi is capable of doing spin2win which is the thing they tried to prevent.

 

also I dont understand the people Haha'ing the thread either they dont get the point or they just laugh at braindead, whenever they see s2w in the thread thinking someone is crying about the nerf without actually trying to understand the thread. which is pretty funny if thats what they are doing

Edited December 1, 2019 by 8faiNt

[DarthIronclad]

On the topic of heavy attack builds...one important question is does it match KPS potential of slide attack builds before the rework?

[8faiNt]

17 minutes ago, DarthIronclad said:

On the topic of heavy attack builds...one important question is does it match KPS potential of slide attack builds before the rework?

Heavy attacks wont have the potential KPS the s2w has had like ever. They are not agile like s2w. They might deal high damage but wont be as effective when it comes to getting many kills

Edited December 1, 2019 by 8faiNt

[Xaero]

Spin2win is not as effective as it was before the update, but now it's on par with other melee moves. Light attacks to win. Heavy attacks to win. All of them together to win. It's about personal preferences now. You find spamming a single move much fun? Go for it.

[JackHargreav]

My nikanas are still better.

[taiiat]

*smug* (though my preferences Kill faster than that and despite being a Hit Counter based Loadout doing so long before the Hit Counter even builds up very high)

though that would probably perform better with Weeping Wounds in place of Pressure Point, for this purpose.
Mods like Quickening and True Punishment might also be worth considering.
a Slash Mod might even be interesting.

5 minutes ago, Xaero said:

Spin2win is not as effective as it was before the update, but now it's on par with other melee moves. Light attacks to win. Heavy attacks to win. All of them together to win. It's about personal preferences now. You find spamming a single move much fun? Go for it.

the game tasks Players with Killing dozens of Enemies every second, across the entire room, most of which having not that much EHP and just exist waiting for you to Kill them.
so whatever covers the most square footage quickly will pretty much always stand to be the tool of choice, with little competition to speak of.

Edited December 1, 2019 by taiiat

[-Kittens-]

1 hour ago, 8faiNt said:

So, now what? Is ninkondi going to get nerfed? are you guys going to delete spin attacks or replace them? Buff Delete Maiming Strike save it from it's ''Misery''? I mean I dont know what I can say like it literally contributes nothing and spin2win is still alive. All that nerf to maiming strike and yet you ve failed to kill spin2win, DE. Its all for nothing...

Dont get me wrong Im not complaining about maiming nerf It had it coming Im just trying to see the point of nerfing Maiming if you're going to have melees like ninkondi,absolutely broken also,the fact that maiming contributing nothing to spin attacks just makes me curious what DE actually trying to do. Just delete the mod already no reason to make it an expensive version of Ammo Drum

 

Cant do anything about the vid quality

If you had simply used the Drill to Pierce the Heavens combo that video would have about two seconds with even better damage. Maybe it's time to let it go.

 

[Xaero]

8 minutes ago, taiiat said:

the game tasks Players with Killing dozens of Enemies every second, across the entire room, most of which having not that much EHP and just exist waiting for you to Kill them.

SO/ESO isn't the only game mode there, you know. Anyways, that doesn't go against my statement. I'll take my Skiajati with Blind Justice stance as an example. I dash into the crowd with block+forward+attack move, followed up by slide attack which locks enemies in place for a short period, and then finish them off with attack/block+attack combo. It's very fast.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Xaero

[z3us32610]

I think your definition of Spin 2 Win doesn't coincide with the generally agreed upon definition. Before Phase 2 Melee, the insane damage coupled with mobility made spin attacks much more ideal than any other type of attack. (And utterly boring, in my opinion) Now spin attacks, light attacks and heavy attacks are on a much more even playing field.

 

[8faiNt]

1 minute ago, Xaero said:

SO/ESO isn't the only game mode there, you know. Anyways, that doesn't go against my statement. I'll take my Skiajati with Blind Justice stance as an example. I dash into the crowd with block+forward+attack move, follow it up by slide attack which locks enemies in place for a short period, and then finish them off with attack/block+attack combo. It's very fast.

only if we had as good stances as Blind Justice

this isnt going to be an objective statement but no other stances except Atlantis Vulcan and Blind Justice has that much mobility which what makes them so good imo. If we had stances as good as those 2 melee would be 10 times more enjoyable for other classes. Like, I dont enjoy any of the Sword stances they are pretty mediocre at closing distance. 

[taiiat]

10 minutes ago, Xaero said:

SO/ESO isn't the only game mode there, you know.

Anyways, that doesn't go against my statement. I'll take my Skiajati with Blind Justice stance as an example. I dash into the crowd with block+forward+attack move, followed up by slide attack which locks enemies in place for a short period, and then finish them off with attack/block+attack combo. It's very fast.

who said anything about Onslaught. the game gives you the same pretty generic Enemies pretty much everywhere you go except for Venus Landscape, then instead you have too many Enemies that will push you up into the air (literally worse than knocking us down, they're given that capability to push us into the air because it's just as annoying as spamming other types of CC but we can't do anything about that type except get Block staggered which is still getting interrupted frequently) as the main problem sprinkled with a little bit of why do the Sniper Turrets apply Magnetic Status.

unless you Blinded those Enemies or something of the sort, i doubt it's really 'very fast' by the standards of what Warframe sets and even expects from the Player. to me very fast is every Enemy within the general vicinity is dead within 2 maybe 3 seconds at the most, irregardless of what Level number is above their head. that's what Warframe asks the Player to do, so that's what some people do.

Edited December 1, 2019 by taiiat

[Gweredith]

Worse performance than most other weapons. DE never wanted to remove the spin to win mechanic for the players incapable to play this game with more than 2 buttons, they just wanted to up the viability of the competent player playstyles, and they did just that. 

Edited December 1, 2019 by Gweredith

[TARINunit9]

This isn't an example of Spin2Win, this is an example of Dominant Strategy: players will ALWAYS gravitate to whatever strategy gives the most reward for the least effort. Spin attacks have such high base damage and are so much easier to use than combos, that players will basically always use spin attacks instead of combos (or failing that, quick attack spamming to keep a tough enemy staggerlocked)

[___Operator___]

42 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

I think what you should understand from this thread is that Maiming is obsolete, has no effect and needs to be changed.

also, you can literally get pretty much the same result with p fury instead of the riven and sac. steel instead of the maiming/drifting contact. try it for yourself. and riven cant skew the result since it was in my build for the whole time while i was using maiming and drifting contact. (unless you're suggesting that its increasing my DPS)

and I dont really need to get a result its basically showing that ninkondi is capable of doing spin2win which is the thing they tried to prevent.

 

also I dont understand the people Haha'ing the thread either they dont get the point or they just laugh at braindead, whenever they see s2w in the thread thinking someone is crying about the nerf without actually trying to understand the thread. which is pretty funny if thats what they are doing

I never said it wasn't obsolete, I simply pointed out that in your video you are trying to demonstrate that spin2win is still viable but do a really poor job of it.  And yes a riven mod massively skews results, anyone who thinks this game should be balanced based on results provided with riven mods have not the slightest idea how to balance to begin with.

[-Kittens-]

16 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

only if we had as good stances as Blind Justice

AV is't good because of the tile spanning drill, AV is good because the drill exists at all. You're just lazy, simple as. "Every stance needs a re crit room clear" is literal lazy. lazy. There's no other context or word for it. Dervish also does way WAY better damage than BJ, so again maybe it's time to rethink your strategy and gameplay goals.

[Xaero]

10 minutes ago, taiiat said:

who said anything about Onslaught. the game gives you the same pretty generic Enemies pretty much everywhere you go

And the game 

24 minutes ago, taiiat said:

tasks Players with Killing dozens of Enemies every second, across the entire room

in every mode?

Ok, let's pretend modes like Mobile Defense, Interception, Disruption etc. don't exist. Why would you want to get it over with asap? Because you don't enjoy gameplay in general?

17 minutes ago, taiiat said:

unless you Blinded those Enemies or something of the sort, i doubt it's really 'very fast' by the standards of what Warframe sets and even expects from the Player. to me very fast is every Enemy within the general vicinity is dead within 2 maybe 3 seconds at the most, irregardless of what Level number is above their head.

Yeah, I can tell by looking at your Saryn glyph.

[Aadi880]

1 hour ago, 8faiNt said:

So, now what? Is ninkondi going to get nerfed? are you guys going to delete spin attacks or replace them? Buff Delete Maiming Strike save it from it's ''Misery''? I mean I dont know what I can say like it literally contributes nothing and spin2win is still alive. All that nerf to maiming strike and yet you ve failed to kill spin2win, DE. Its all for nothing...

Dont get me wrong Im not complaining about maiming nerf It had it coming Im just trying to see the point of nerfing Maiming if you're going to have melees like ninkondi,absolutely broken also,the fact that maiming contributing nothing to spin attacks just makes me curious what DE actually trying to do. Just delete the mod already no reason to make it an expensive version of Ammo Drum

 

Cant do anything about the vid quality

Spin2Win how? You aren't winning here. There's weapons and build that exists and are better in performance than this, some of them without combo multi.

And when was DE's intention was to kill spin2win? I never heard them saying or implying that in any of the Devstreams. All I heard was they wanted for other playstyles to used, and so far, I'm not seeing macro spin to winners. (Whether or not you think its because they nerfed spin to win to hard, or that they found better playstyles is your guess).

 

[Xaero]

23 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

mediocre at closing distance

There's a little trick (not sure if intended) which gives you a huge momentum when you combine the dash with sliding and rolling.

[Aadi880]

3 minutes ago, Xaero said:

Ok, let's pretend modes like Mobile Defense, Interception, Disruption etc. don't exist. Why would you want to get it over with asap? Because you don't enjoy gameplay in general?

Technically, Disruption and Defense does require you to kill enemies, or else the game won't proceed. (Disruption for conduit keys, Defense to start next wave).

[8faiNt]

  

12 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

AV is't good because of the tile spanning drill, AV is good because the drill exists at all. You're just lazy, simple as. "Every stance needs a re crit room clear" is literal lazy. lazy. There's no other context or word for it. Dervish also does way WAY better damage than BJ, so again maybe it's time to rethink your strategy and gameplay goals.

I expect stances to close distance since this is a very fast phased game. and If they are not agile and/or cant close the gap they are useless to me I dont care how big the damage is. Damage is no good if i cant get to the enemy quickly.

 

9 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Spin2Win how? You aren't winning here. There's weapons and build that exists and are better in performance than this, some of them without combo multi.

And when was DE's intention was to kill spin2win? I never heard them saying or implying that in any of the Devstreams. All I heard was they wanted for other playstyles to used, and so far, I'm not seeing macro spin to winners. (Whether or not you think its because they nerfed spin to win to hard, or that they found better playstyles is your guess).

 

spin2win is the terminology. and they may have not said it but Ninkondi is the only s2w melee since the whips are obsolete and useless for s2w now.

also they literally nerfed Maiming I dont know how obvious it has to be for you to understand that they wanted s2w out from the game

32 minutes ago, Gweredith said:

Worse performance than most other weapons. DE never wanted to remove the spin to win mechanic for the players incapable to play this game with more than 2 buttons, they just wanted to up the viability of the competent player playstyles, and they did just that. 

I really like you to show me which melee is performing better because from all i know this was pretty close to Nikana Prime(damage wise) which is the current best melee objectively

8 minutes ago, Xaero said:

There's a little trick (not sure if intended) which gives you a huge momentum when you combine the dash with sliding and rolling.

ah aint that funny

24 minutes ago, Monochromeatic said:

I never said it wasn't obsolete, I simply pointed out that in your video you are trying to demonstrate that spin2win is still viable but do a really poor job of it.  And yes a riven mod massively skews results, anyone who thinks this game should be balanced based on results provided with riven mods have not the slightest idea how to balance to begin with.

all am trying to say is that maiming has no effect in builds which you agree too I agree its not the best objective test but I dont think it has to be either. Its pretty obvious that maiming doesnt contribute at all in the video

Edited December 1, 2019 by 8faiNt

[Xaero]

7 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Technically, Disruption and Defense does require you to kill enemies, or else the game won't proceed. (Disruption for conduit keys, Defense to start next wave).

I don't remember  Disruption requiring dozens of kills every second.

Defense and Mobile Defense are not the same thing.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Xaero

[TzXtetriC]

I can actually do all that with a lot of weapons