Kuva Lich Excavation needs to be fixed

[IceBlueEyesX]

This has really gotten on my nerves lately.  Is it really too much to ask to scale the excavator shield and health appropriately for the much higher level enemies during Kuva Lich Excavation missions?  In other Lich-controlled defense mission types, the defense targets' shield and health pool are buffed to take into account the higher damage output of the higher enemy levels, so why not Excavation?

Or at the very least, can we get Kuva Lich Excavation changed to Kuva Lich Exterminate instead?  It's so irritating to have a drill blow up as soon as it spawns in because of two stray shots from the enemies.  C'mon, DE...

[schilds]

Take a frame that can defend excavators.

[(PSN)BlightDragon89]

Limbo would be good for this, or Frost. Worked for me anyway. Gara would also be a good choice. Really just take a defensive frame and you should be just fine.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

50 minutes ago, schilds said:

Take a frame that can defend excavators.

Well depending on the lich level, it's entirely pause for an excavator to be destroyed in one shot, and thus the frames used to defending excavators then go from Limbo, Gara, and Frost to just Frost. Limbo without casting mods might take too long to cast cataclysm and then stasis, leaving just enough time for one Grineer to enter the bubble and one shot the excavator. As for Gara, she has it even worse. She needs enemies to beef up her wall, which means enemies need to be in close enough range to the wall. Close enough range to capture enemies to beef up the wall means they are close enough to shoot the excavator, resulting in the excavator being destroyed. Or even a Grineer entering the wall while it's still molten and shooting the excavator, while Gara cannot do anything except end the wall's spread early. That leaves Frost. Just Frost. Only Frost. Only Monika. Because Frost has a three second invulnerability period for his snowglobes, half a second cast time in comparison to a second long. Meaning he's the only one who can protect the excavator. Sure there's Vauban but high enough lich level, high enough spawns, one'll get through the Bastille and Repelling Bastille and one shot the excavator anyways.

So it's incorrect to say "take a frame that can defend excavators," instead say "take the frame that can defend excavators."

[(PSN)M82BFG]

Vazarin - Protective dash... Anybody?

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)BlightDragon89 said:

Limbo would be good for this, or Frost. Worked for me anyway. Gara would also be a good choice. Really just take a defensive frame and you should be just fine.

Sortie Excavation today. Utilized Gara, Mass Vitrify's wall took too long to form to form to avoid having the excavator two or three shot. Protect it with 90% DR from Splinter Shield? Died in ten seconds instead of one, simply that much damage from Corpus. 90% DR. Well over a few hundred health per shot, on a target with only 3,000 effective health.

 

2 minutes ago, (PS4)M82BFG said:

Vazarin - Protective dash... Anybody?

That's a lot of focus investment to handle one mission type when Kuva Liches are unlocked after the War Within.

[(PSN)M82BFG]

2 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

That's a lot of focus investment to handle one mission type when Kuva Liches are unlocked after the War Within.

It has more uses than just the 1 mission type. And its the 1st ability off main unlock in that tree.

[schilds]

Vauban places vortices well away from the excavator along enemy routes.

Edited December 6, 2019 by schilds

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)M82BFG said:

It has more uses than just the 1 mission type. And its the 1st ability off main unlock in that tree.

Hm, didn't notice that. Well then there's a solution to the problem. Void Dash every six seconds after spending about three days in Sanctuary Onslaught from my guess farming focus. Doesn't fix the gameplay problem, but makes it possible to beat the mission.

 

10 minutes ago, schilds said:

Vauban places vortices well away from the excavator along enemy routes.

Hope you don't end up with enemies in a 360 degree area around you, like some of the Europa Excavator placements that have spawns pretty much everywhere. And hope you can keep track of all those vortexes. And not die. And keep the energy up. Sounds like Frost is just easier at that point.

[schilds]

10 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Hope you don't end up with enemies in a 360 degree area around you, like some of the Europa Excavator placements that have spawns pretty much everywhere.

That's not how enemies spawn. Mostly they come from other tiles and you know the routes. There's a couple of tiles that I can think of where they spawn on the tile, and on those tiles it's only from one spawn point. Know the routes for those too. Never needed more than 3 vortices.

10 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

And hope you can keep track of all those vortexes.

Yes, yes I can. I'm sure other people can too.

10 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

And not die.

Done. Took Vaub. Didn't die.

10 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

And keep the energy up.

You're such a tease.

10 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Sounds like Frost is just easier at that point.

Vaub is definitely a busy guy. Places to be, people to meet. He's important. Can't deny that.

Edited December 6, 2019 by schilds

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

2 minutes ago, schilds said:

That's not how enemies spawn. Mostly they come from other tiles and you know the routes. There's a couple of tiles that I can think of where they spawn on the tile, and on those tiles it's only from one spawn point. Know the routes for those too. Never needed more than 3 vortices.

Yes, yes I can. I'm sure other people can too.

Done. Took Vaub. Didn't die.

Don't be such a tease.

Vaub is definitely a busy guy. Places to be, people to meet. He's important. Can't deny that.

Amending previous statement.

"Take one of two frames capable of defending an excavator."

Which is nice I guess.

[actuallyVile]

> Posts complaint

> Gets suggested solutions / alternatives

> Other person keeps complaining about those options

Do the other missions then. A high level lich will have loads of nodes anyway, more than enough to have figured out the combo and defeat it.

Edited December 6, 2019 by -AxHx-Vile

[schilds]

18 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Amending previous statement.

"Take one of two frames capable of defending an excavator."

Which is nice I guess.

Would you believe that I've been successful with Khora as well? Two strangledomes + Khora herself are enough to cover 3 routes. She's probably easier to use than Vaub, and has the advantage of Pilfering Strangledome and Venari healing.

You mentioned corpus arbi. This is much easier since no drones and, since Grineer, so nullifiers.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

Just now, schilds said:

Would you believe that I've been successful with Khora as well? Two strangledomes + Khora herself are enough to cover 3 routes. She's probably easier to use than Vaub, and has the advantage of Pilfering Strangledome and Venari healing.

You mentioned corpus arbi. This is much easier since no drones and, since Grineer, so nullifiers.

Okay so there's Vauban, Frost, and then hope no enemies take a post shot from range Khora on any maps with large tiles like Corpus Outpost or Grineer Settlement.

Sortie Excavation. Sortie Excavation. Not Arbitration Excavation. The nullifiers didn't even play into it considering my abilities didn't even have an effect longer than less than 10 seconds in the first place. Can't get nulified if your frame powers are already useless.

Yeah, Corpus have higher damage than Grineer, yeah Sorties are higher level than Kuva Lich missions up until an R5 Kuva Lich, but the same general concept applies. Sure, it's easier by a degree, but excavators still dying before there's even a chance to do something is still a problem.

[--K--Sharkfin]

44 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Hope you don't end up with enemies in a 360 degree area around you, like some of the Europa Excavator placements that have spawns pretty much everywhere. And hope you can keep track of all those vortexes. And not die. And keep the energy up. Sounds like Frost is just easier at that point.

Sounds like you never tried using 280% range vauban. 28m, 30s+ duration, 130% efficiency. Group up and track enemies with the continuous damage indicators.

I have tried frost, khora and vauban and I still prefer using vauban.

Not to mention I could throw the ball wherever I want, should it be right under my feet or 30m away.

His 1 also help stunning enemies around me.

All of the above don't care about ability strength.

Besides, energy is not an issue, with zenurik my energy regenerates faster than I use.

Having said that, this does not suit everyone's playstyle.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

1 minute ago, SHArK-FiN said:

Sounds like you never tried using 280% range vauban. 28m, 30s+ duration, 130% efficiency. Group up and track enemies with the continuous damage indicators.

I have tried frost, khora and vauban and I still prefer using vauban.

Not to mention I could throw the ball wherever I want, should it be right under my feet or 30m away.

His 1 also help stunning enemies around me.

All of the above don't care about ability strength.

Besides, energy is not an issue, with zenurik my energy regenerates faster than I use.

Having said that, this does not suit everyone's playstyle.

No, haven't tried using a max range Vauban. I'll admit to that. I tried Gara, that failed. I know Limbo's casting times and dislike him in general. And as much as I find Frost boring, he's the one I end up having to resort to.

[--K--Sharkfin]

26 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

No, haven't tried using a max range Vauban. I'll admit to that. I tried Gara, that failed. I know Limbo's casting times and dislike him in general. And as much as I find Frost boring, he's the one I end up having to resort to.

I would say max range vauban could give you a new impression.

Gara couldn't CC as good as frost and khora, so I instantly dumped her for this purpose.

I don't like using limbo either, no matter if he's minimum-range limbo. He is too squishy outside the rift, and the rift often brings trouble at killing.

Before dedicated with vauban, I used frost for excavation.

I have 2 builds for frost, one with max range and duration, another with max strength and efficiency.

The former is to spam 4 and latter is the globe with augment.

Frost is great at hard CC with his 4 but the duration is kinda short even when maxed, like 24 seconds if sacrifice some range and ignore Fleeting Expertise.
My CC frost build has only ~15 seconds on 4 because i need the efficiency and range.

While globe frost is good at protecting the drill, it's risky to go out and grab cells.

Now playing with vauban, I could go 2 drills at the same time provided that the 2 drills are spawned within 15 seconds travelling time, leaving me around 10 seconds to deploy new vortex and kill for some energy cells.
I tried practicing this on lv4 Kuva Lich Excavation.

Edited December 6, 2019 by SHArK-FiN

[Graavarg]

6 hours ago, (PS4)BlightDragon89 said:

Limbo would be good for this

Limbo IS good at this, he can solo high-level liches if necessary. Takes time though, but then again you get all the murmurs...

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Are u doing Objective or Farming Murmurs? If Farming, i will not bother with Excavators to much: more Excavators needed means more time spend so more Murmurs to get. Imo, 1 of mistakes in Farming Murmurs: players doing Objectives, aka rushing Missions, nonendless especially, while there are still Enemies which can be transfered to Tralls.

Edited December 6, 2019 by (PS4)Onder6099

[Graavarg]

Both. Limbo can basically keep an excavator alive indefinitely, and you can easily kill enemies that get frozen in the rift bubble, including downing thralls. Also, if you have an angry lich it usually shows up at some point and proceeds to create about 10 more thralls. The lich isn't affected by rift, but can't damage the excavator (if it is inside the cataclysm bubble).

It is standard advanced Limbo play, you need to take care not to be caught inside the bubble, take especial care not to run out of Stasis, use operator mode when necessary (for gathering energy for the excavators in tricky situations) and you can also use a specter to help you clear out enemies once there are no more thralls or liches spawning in. As I said, takes a bit of time, but it is constant active playing so it is rather fun (especially solo). And 15-20 murmurs (without even stabbing the lich) is an ok reward, a couple of times I've gotten 20+ (hard to say exactly how many, since the graph is not that easy to read).

Finally, defense missions works pretty much the same (for Limbo), so you can use the same tactic & builds. Solo'ing again takes longer (and you can actually extend mission time, if you want, by having low Strength and letting the enemies stay frozen in the rift), but you have full control over everything and avoid playing with f*ckups that immediately down a lich (before it has a chance to turn approx. 10 enemies into extra thralls) or empty the map of enemies (for a lich to turn into thralls). Overall you might even win a little, as you probably progress your lich more in one mission this way than stupidly speed-running other missions with f*ckups. While still keeping it (and the general lich mission) at an easier level.

You need to watch out for the lich, as some of their abilities can damage you even while you are rifted. And if your lich spawns in an "empty" part of the map (not an uncommon occurrence), just start excavators and let the Grineer destroy them (and don't put any energy into them) until an excavator spawns close to the lich => you'll get all the turned thralls in no time.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Graavarg

[tzadquiel]

7 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Hope you don't end up with enemies in a 360 degree area around you, like some of the Europa Excavator placements that have spawns pretty much everywhere. And hope you can keep track of all those vortexes. And not die. And keep the energy up. Sounds like Frost is just easier at that point.

Vauban with max range can spam cast those and no enemy will even come in range of the rifles. you can place multiple bastilles too at the same time, fyi. 
Also, sounds like you made it harder on yourself than you actually could - exterminate missions are much easier and quicker. 

[Fl_3]

Why not allow the excavator health to scale as it does in Orb Vallis excavations?

[KosmicKerman]

13 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Sortie Excavation today. Utilized Gara, Mass Vitrify's wall took too long to form to form to avoid having the excavator two or three shot. Protect it with 90% DR from Splinter Shield? Died in ten seconds instead of one, simply that much damage from Corpus. 90% DR. Well over a few hundred health per shot, on a target with only 3,000 effective health.

 

That's a lot of focus investment to handle one mission type when Kuva Liches are unlocked after the War Within.

I’ve got big doubts about this. I’ve always used Gara and never lost an excavator unless a Nullifier got too close or I failed to refresh the 2. I’ve used her in sorties and in arbitrations. I’ve got a feeling you don’t understand how Gara’s abilities actually work or how to build her. 

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

8 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

Why not allow the excavator health to scale as it does in Orb Vallis excavations?

To quote the rest of the thread.

"Just use Vauban." or Frost.

[schilds]

1 hour ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

To quote the rest of the thread.

"Just use Vauban." or Frost.

This is the "players helping players" forum. We're giving what help we can. There's a feedback forum for convincing DE to change things, but sure.

 

19 hours ago, IceBlueEyesX said:

This has really gotten on my nerves lately.  Is it really too much to ask to scale the excavator shield and health appropriately for the much higher level enemies during Kuva Lich Excavation missions?  In other Lich-controlled defense mission types, the defense targets' shield and health pool are buffed to take into account the higher damage output of the higher enemy levels, so why not Excavation?

Or at the very least, can we get Kuva Lich Excavation changed to Kuva Lich Exterminate instead?  It's so irritating to have a drill blow up as soon as it spawns in because of two stray shots from the enemies.  C'mon, DE...

Mate, just change excavators so that they scale with enemy level.

 

 

There, I sure learned him!

Edited December 6, 2019 by schilds

[actuallyVile]

2 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

To quote the rest of the thread.

"Just use Vauban." or Frost.