Thanks for Watching Devstream #134: Empyrean!

[Pyrain]

On 2019-12-06 at 4:04 PM, (PS4)coma-edge said:

Loved the demo. But I hope this doesn't mean using mics is a necessity.

Not from what i saw.  There is a communication UI that allows you to tell people what needs doing.

[Pyrain]

On 2019-12-06 at 5:29 PM, BradKing said:

So coop for the first months for railjack sounds ok, annoying, but ok. I share the concerns others posted about there being a lack of actual coop unless you go full friends + voice chat. Was hoping to hear something about the kit-archwings, but I'm assuming those will not be in for the first months anyway now. 

I'm hoping we can get some answers on the loot:

The mission results showed: 

• no intrinsics on this regular mission that took over 25 mins
• some new resources (that are used to build ammo, but not in the ship/equipment ranks, perhaps for building subsystems)
• no mods, no skills, no avionics
• no idea about xp, but looks like very little in warframe, weapons, frames, AW, AW weapons etc.

Regardless of how to get loot, and standing/affinity/any progress in your railjack; will it at least be fully coop shared? Or will the host railjack/clan be the one that benefits the most with drops, resources, affinity etc? Will we get new AW mods? Will the current mods be reviewed and improved (either improved stats or lowered costs)?

And please do not put these things on the market, no matter how tempting that might be (and how much I would be tempted to unlock solo/not full group faster).

 

About the liches: it's a painful drag when it comes to completing your collection, in weapons, in ephemera and especially in damage bonus, I really hope next year you guys will take another look at all this, even on these forums there are great ideas on how to make it rewarding, but still a DE-manageable timesink. The dying isn't a big deal if you're a 10% veteran with double max arcanes and all the mods in the world, but I can see how it is very un-fun for newer players. It is however a terrible thing wrt lore, even the liches still have lines that refer to them dying all the time vs us. Personally, right now all I do is lich stuff, I don't care about the liches, I only want the weapons. Every non-unique weapon feels terrible, half of them are not better so immediately terrible, making me rush even more. I see most MR 20+ players do this, we hardly talk in missions, we just grind, not farm, grind.

I really hope the UI people will have a look at the CODEX UI for liches, it is just terrible: there is no way to search anything, there is no way to order, there is no way to know which damage type and number you have active. Foundry should also be looked at, having weapons in there where you don't know what their stats are is a real pain. I also wish you wouldn't need a spare weapon slot to merge two kuva weapons, but again, for veterans that have plat, it's not that big a deal (yet it hurts newer people a lot, I have to explain you do need plat and you should farm for it or just buy it)..

 

ps: Real shame the twitch mod/chatbot was set up badly, people asking about railjack, coop and solo progress were getting chat timed out.

Now see, THIS is how you post complaints/concerns!!  Respectful while still putting forth the issues you have.

 

For those of you that get on here and rant, if you are that angry with the game and dislike it so much, get the heck off all ready.  Nobody wants to listen to you whine about how the game doesn't cater to you.  If that's the kind of game you want, go play Destiny 2 when it first came out.  The game in and of itself isn't all that bad.  Have their been mistakes made? 110% yes.  Are there areas of improvement? Again, absolutely.  Should DE put a hold on new content for a good while and fix some things? Ya, i think that would be a good idea.  That does NOT give you license to come on here and just spew out absolute vehemence.  You ruin the game for the rest of us who don't feel the same way.

 

Moral of the story; thank you BradKing for stating your concerns the way you did.

[TheKubaW]

2 hours ago, Pyrain said:

Now see, THIS is how you post complaints/concerns!!  Respectful while still putting forth the issues you have.

 

For those of you that get on here and rant, if you are that angry with the game and dislike it so much, get the heck off all ready.  Nobody wants to listen to you whine about how the game doesn't cater to you.  If that's the kind of game you want, go play Destiny 2 when it first came out.  The game in and of itself isn't all that bad.  Have their been mistakes made? 110% yes.  Are there areas of improvement? Again, absolutely.  Should DE put a hold on new content for a good while and fix some things? Ya, i think that would be a good idea.  That does NOT give you license to come on here and just spew out absolute vehemence.  You ruin the game for the rest of us who don't feel the same way.

 

Moral of the story; thank you BradKing for stating your concerns the way you did.

"You can't criticize warframe you guys"

[Eklectus]

3 hours ago, Pyrain said:

Now see, THIS is how you post complaints/concerns!!  Respectful while still putting forth the issues you have.

 

For those of you that get on here and rant, if you are that angry with the game and dislike it so much, get the heck off all ready.  Nobody wants to listen to you whine about how the game doesn't cater to you.  If that's the kind of game you want, go play Destiny 2 when it first came out.  The game in and of itself isn't all that bad.  Have their been mistakes made? 110% yes.  Are there areas of improvement? Again, absolutely.  Should DE put a hold on new content for a good while and fix some things? Ya, i think that would be a good idea.  That does NOT give you license to come on here and just spew out absolute vehemence.  You ruin the game for the rest of us who don't feel the same way.

 

Moral of the story; thank you BradKing for stating your concerns the way you did.

Yes, this is the first piece of advice that has been posted in a polite and constructive manner. It totally won't be dumpstered like the countless pieces of feedback before it.

[yarl5000]

DE if you are debating this. First give us those new icons for the intrinsic to be used as Gylphs/sigil/emblem. then tie all or at least one of them to the ranking up the intrinsic so we can show off thing we have worked to specialize in on our warframe. 

[ShaperOfForm]

I hope DE does an Empyrean Prime Time this week to cover some of the main questions post Devstream. 

They need another shot at demonstrating Empyrean as the chaotic nature of the Devstream demonstration was not well received by many.

Hopefully that will restore some confidence in people on the fence. 

Some key points to show: 

• How a Railjack equipped to do a high end mission will play. The impression some have is that the Railjack is useless and they will just park it for an Archwing. 
• How planning ahead with craftable artillery will reduce the need for crafting on the fly. Also explain how resource collection and crafting works with regard to each players inventory. The devstream demo indicated crafting uses Railjack owner's inventory. Resource collection at least went to Railjack owner. Unsure about other players - would imagine they get resources or else no incentive to play.
• Tweak firefighting experience. The devstream indicated the amount of firefighting was not the gameplay they were going for and tweaking was easy. 
• Points of Interest example. 
• Example of how someone can play solo. Devstream said it was possible with right skills and abilities. High levels would be challenging, so show possibilities at low levels. Its up to players to get the skills to complete high levels solo. 
• Example of teamwork without mics. Devstream showed the canned messages system. How well can you communicate with only that system.   
• Explanation of how to avoid griefing during pub play. How to stop excessive use of resources and eject someone for not being cooperative. 
• Explanation of what happens when a Railjack owner disconnects. Expectation is game chooses a new host that has a railjack or perhaps game is aborted.   

I'm very excited for this update. Feels like this is Warframe 2. 

 

[kapn655321]

To fix the resource expenditure worry, I think I have a compromise.
So far other threads seem fine with it, so might as well bring it up here.

1. Your chores on the ship default to use your own resources.
2. There is a, "public use chest," or container on the ship that may be donated to by anyone, only accessed for chores.
    This would work very similar to Dojo donations. Anyone can donate in our out of mission, but only access that supply during missions.
3. A private emergency stash that only the Owner of the railjack (captain) may access/ration from. (Or each player has their own in the same way when pilot.)


If you don't want your resources used frivolously, you keep them in emergency reserve, and ration specifically to those you deem responsible.
If you have nothing in the cache, the group can donate to that at any time for the future to thank or help you.
Could also incorporate a "DONATE TO PLAYERS RAILJACK" function to hook up people running dry on ammo in an away mission.
Sent like an Air Support Charge, donated to, much in the way you would for alliance or dojo donations.

Same as dojos, donations are one way.

Emergency stash may be incorporated into the, "Go do this job" part of the menuing already shown on devstream.

[Duduminador]

Please don't give in to the inevitable upcoming requests to make Empyrian easier. The game mode appears to be in a perfect balance between Challenge and a replacement for Trials. The later had to go mostly because of the immutable nature Trials had, It was not difficulty, trials were just about following a step-by-step recipe, that's why it had to go. Empyrian however has potential to fit that challenge gap while simultaneously introducing a chaotic factor that will change the scenery on the fly while keeping meta at reduced, and most important, won't be limited to 2 scenarios.

That said, I have concerns over the RailJacks' controls... it felt far too mechanic, with fixed speeds and bursts, almost no momentum. My concern is that, that doesn't allow enough room for interesting maneuvers, it's varying speeds, constantly drifting and having to manually counter your own speed bursts that make flight gameplays interesting, otherwise you are just walking in space, and there is no skill to be developed there.

Which takes me back to Archwing, sorry but the current iteration of Archwing controls is... really not... flying at all... it literaly feels like walking in air. Now, I never agreed that letting players have momentum on foot should be a thing (really, it's outdated... people stoped using it along with quake3 engine when devs realised players could abuse side jumps to move faster jumping than running... ). But now we have a system where a player on foot has momentum, but an Archwing/ship  does not.

[MirageKnight]

On 2019-12-08 at 4:43 PM, Eklectus said:

Yes, this is the first piece of advice that has been posted in a polite and constructive manner. It totally won't be dumpstered like the countless pieces of feedback before it.

Just a friendly reminder: You forgot the /s at the end. Some people might not be smart enough to detect sarcasm.

4 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

Given hwo much we've been giving feedback wise on the liches before now? And DE acting as if they have nothing they can act on... And the fact that they were acting likerailjack is a done thing AND 'how often have they gone 'the stats aren't final gies! only for it to be effectivly final...'

I'd be worried too.

4 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

Is there even any point to gving feedback?

If the last devstreams are a good indicator...unless it's with regard to game-breaking bugs, I'd say it's a bit pointless...at least for now.

4 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

I feel like railjack is being forced out too soon. 

Trust me, you're not the only one. I'll hazard an educated guess and say that solo players are going to feel a wee bit shafted that AI / NPC crews will only be a thing "later".

4 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

'LOOK AT ALL WE HAVE DONE THIS YEAR!'

4 new Warframes, an incomplete rework of melee with mixed results, Dry Dock + un-flyable Railjack, the controversial Lich Nemesis system, Night Wave, a few ingame events, some Primed / Deluxe stuff, some new weapons, a few ability reworks (mostly good), Exilus slots for ranged weapons, and Tennocon.

My apologies if I missed anything.

Edit: Yes I did miss something - Gas City and PoE remasters and a new boss encounter.

[SnuggleBuckets]

14 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

4 new Warframes, an incomplete rework of melee with mixed results, Dry Dock + un-flyable Railjack, the controversial Lich Nemesis system, Night Wave, a few ingame events, some Primed / Deluxe stuff, some new weapons, a few ability reworks (mostly good), Exilus slots for ranged weapons, and Tennocon.

My apologies if I missed anything.

We also had the PoE "remaster" and the Jupiter Remasters, which were fine, I haven't had much reason to play Jupiter, but it looks nice and all.
Wukong rework was nice, some of the basic stuff like a few of the weapons, I sort of am okay with the melee rework.

But Nightwave, I absolutely hated that, and the tiny changes haven't done much to change my revulsion of that system as something that enhances the feeling of a free-to-play live-service chore list to get through, I don't want the game to remind me of it sharing so much with all the other psychologically manipulative work simulators out there, to the core a conflicted system trying to cater to both "veterans" and "casuals" in one system and thus being torn in different directions incentive-wise.

I've also felt that the PoE and Orb Vallis have kind of been disappointing massive expansions with not much to do, day one I advocated adding more dynamic encounters, more varied factions, more wildlife with their own ecosystems, more secrety stuff to explore, not just boring scans with gibberish lore. They have potential, and it's been neglected because there's that massive pressure to move on to the next thing that substitutes for content. meaning for the last two years the game has stretched very little content over a very wide- albeit rather pretty - surface.

[(PSN)xxav1xl6ivax]

16 hours ago, ShaperOfForm said:

I hope DE does an Empyrean Prime Time this week to cover some of the main questions post Devstream. 

They need another shot at demonstrating Empyrean as the chaotic nature of the Devstream demonstration was not well received by many.

Hopefully that will restore some confidence in people on the fence. 

Some key points to show: 

• How a Railjack equipped to do a high end mission will play. The impression some have is that the Railjack is useless and they will just park it for an Archwing. 
• How planning ahead with craftable artillery will reduce the need for crafting on the fly. Also explain how resource collection and crafting works with regard to each players inventory. The devstream demo indicated crafting uses Railjack owner's inventory. Resource collection at least went to Railjack owner. Unsure about other players - would imagine they get resources or else no incentive to play.
• Tweak firefighting experience. The devstream indicated the amount of firefighting was not the gameplay they were going for and tweaking was easy. 
• Points of Interest example. 
• Example of how someone can play solo. Devstream said it was possible with right skills and abilities. High levels would be challenging, so show possibilities at low levels. Its up to players to get the skills to complete high levels solo. 
• Example of teamwork without mics. Devstream showed the canned messages system. How well can you communicate with only that system.   
• Explanation of how to avoid griefing during pub play. How to stop excessive use of resources and eject someone for not being cooperative. 
• Explanation of what happens when a Railjack owner disconnects. Expectation is game chooses a new host that has a railjack or perhaps game is aborted.   

I'm very excited for this update. Feels like this is Warframe 2. 

 

In a way, it sort of is like “Warframe 2.”

In another way, it is like the road to Warframe [1].

I began amidst the first organization of “content” and systems that had been developed, deployed, tested, experimented with, etc. since before I even ever really took to playing any video games at all, which pulled together what was strong, enduring, and sufficiently workable, into a new overall system, with some new “content,” and a somehow unspectacular update transition, that was as self-referential as it was mysterious.

”Specters Of The Rail.”

Anyone who had no experience with Warframe at all, (like me), would be left wondering for a while, “WTF does that MEAN?”

But likewise, for new players such as I was, that mystery would not be something that bothered or annoyed us.

The game had (as it turned out), had really only very recently taken on a structure, that galvanized an “identity” of its own. Something that wasn’t having to rely upon its “community” to fill in the cracks and guide the interests of other, or new players into it.

Since 2013, there had been a “Cinematic” made for it, which (especially then) aimed much more toward showcasing a direction of the developers intentions toward how they wanted the game to look, and feel, than how it actually did. 
 

That has been customary, for games and video games, since before the internet, before consoles, before arcade games, that the artistic renderings have represented the actual games in ways that are more sophisticated than what players will actually get.

In retrospect, Warframe had crossed a certain threshold, in developing the content and systems to such a degree where the “Cinematic” and actual game play, could become cohesive. The incorporation of the “Cinematic” into the new structure of Warframe as a self-sufficient game and system, with the addition of a “tutorial” quest for new players that followed from where that cinematic led into the game, was (arguably) what put the crown on “Warframe [1]”

Despite “Specters of The Rail” just an “update” (and cohort of updates that would follow under its banner) to Warframe, at least Sony (in particular) recognized what had happened and what had been done with a game that was a total weirdness, especially for “consoles,” in terms of how games were marketed, developed, how they worked or were expected to, where some sort of a final product would be either all of what the game was, or stood as at least what would be most definite and enduring.

Digital distribution was seen, and foreseen as changing how games were marketed, and thus developed. But an adherence to the ways they had been handled over the previous generations of consoles, was, and is, still deeply engrained. And while Sony (and Microsoft) had no really good reason to say no to Warframe being made available as a free-to-play Title, and let it do whatever it will, they started doing something rather (if not completely) uncommon in 2016. They began pushing the promotion of Warframe to players, on their own.

Sony, at least, began promoting Warframe, as they would a “New Game” or “New Release” edition (like they have done, and still do, when games/Titles/“franchises” that have stacked “content” in serial form on top of, appended or added chapters, “DLC” or sequels to, into omnibus sorts of packages, special, deluxe, complete editions, etc.) They we’re “pushing” Warframe into stable of Games that would be “recommended” based on algorithms that tried to guess at what players might be interested in, based on what they had purchased or played. And they began upping distribution of promotional “content” via their own connections with media and “social media” outlets. “Creating a presence” for Warframe. 
 

If they hadn’t, I would never have discovered it at all. What it was, during its first (almost) three years out of “beta,” was exactly what I had always made a deliberate point to steer clear of. I was, and am, not a “gamer.” And I would be damned if I were to give any game or gaming any modicum of influence over priorities in social, professional or artistic interests or affairs. Any game that required any sort of social commitment, was just not allowable. My own imposition, and for reasons that remain just as strong now as when those convictions had first formed.

Where that newly incorporated “cinematic” from 2013 broke away from the “Trailer,” and into a “tutorial quest,” was, and has been, a critical aspect of rendering Warframe and it’s “universe” as being a viable “game.” 
 

And, curiously, it reflects something that is persistent for both players and developers.
 

A story FRAMEWORK, which maintains a position of players as actors, that is not defined in the customary terms that have framed fiction and stories, “as in the beginning, so in the end.”

The structure that had become galvanizing for Warframe as a full game, universe and system, still held onto ensuring against definition, a beginning or end, with a definite introduction, but one which removes “the world” from any direct relation with our own, and frames a dream to be awoken inside of, “en media res,” (in the middle of things). 
 

Bith play and developments have maintained framing the player position amidst continuing development of continuous “content” where the overall “continuity” is amorphous, inferential, peculiarly contrasting, and even downright conflicting, with a guiding principle akin to, “as we begin, so shall we go.” The undecidables always outweigh anything that is or becomes further decided within the game. If taken for all that it provides, there is always a larger “space” than is ever being filled (or, in “gamer” terminology, a “metagame” is always being further reinforced). 
 

Rather than looking back on, and forward to what Warframe was, has been, and is [becomming] in any of the terms that have ever worked for, or been applied to any other games or media, (sequels, chapters, parts ...), a totally different sort of analogy occurred to me.

The “Ship In A Bottle” (or “The Impossible Bottle”). Where the size of what is contained in the bottle, could never have possibly fit through the narrow neck that is the only means of getting anything in or out.

Aside from trying to imagine that the bottle was somehow just created afterwards, to produce the illusion of impossibility, building something so large and complex in a space that it could not possibly have entered through, or really been created within, is challenging, but not impossible.

Initially, putting different pieces of things in, shaking them out, jiggling the around, to see how they look when they are all in one place, provides for a gist.

But how to get those pieces you want to keep, arranged and structured so that they are connected, initially has to be done in a flattened, layered, mapped out way, and in parts, that can fit through, and then connect inside.

The real trick is getting that flat map and plan for things to fold out into something much larger. The full “3 Dimensional” Ship. Usually getting the prepped system and layout prepared, so that it will unfold into its form in “the impossible bottle” can get a bit tenuous, not always work the way it was hoped to (theoretically), but the critical point is when the “string is pulled.” It has to work right. 
 

So, in terms of processes, I look at the development stages like first, messing around with the pieces inside, without any certain form or structure, the second, arranging a flat, layered map like structure, and prepare ing the hidden mechanical parts that the layered schema will depend on, to work, when the S.S. Empyrean is launched as Warframe. 
 

That, to me, seems like it will be Warframe One (and Warframe 10, Warframe Zero, whatever ...). Appointed with a new masthead, port, portal, “INTRODUCTION.”

 

[MirageKnight]

10 minutes ago, SnuggleBuckets said:

We also had the PoE "remaster" and the Jupiter Remasters

That's right!

PoE looks more natural and immersive than it was on release.

Jupiter remaster is a major improvement. I never cared for v1.0 of the Gas City tileset, it felt too unrealistically polished and ornate for an industrial complex. v2.0 looks more functional and suitably worn...although the forced parkour at times can be a real pain in the butt.

20 minutes ago, SnuggleBuckets said:

I've also felt that the PoE and Orb Vallis have kind of been disappointing massive expansions with not much to do, day one I advocated adding more dynamic encounters, more varied factions, more wildlife with their own ecosystems, more secrety stuff to explore, not just boring scans with gibberish lore. They have potential, and it's been neglected because there's that massive pressure to move on to the next thing that substitutes for content. meaning for the last two years the game has stretched very little content over a very wide- albeit rather pretty - surface.

I couldn't agree more. PoE and Orb Vallis, despite being "open worlds", don't feel particularly "alive".

It's interesting that Steve mentioned "islands of content"...because they do very much feel like islands, despite the fact that they added resources there that are now required for certain things.

[SnuggleBuckets]

33 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

It's interesting that Steve mentioned "islands of content"...because they do very much feel like islands, despite the fact that they added resources there that are now required for certain things.

Which is painfully relevant here aswell, since Steve also talked of Railjack connecting all the isolated islands of Warframe (something they hoped to alleviate with the open worlds but failed at), and they showed briefly very minor work of the open space and some of the challenges of that, but now, this latest stream showed, you guessed it, isolated nodes floating in the star chart, their own little play-areas where you fly around in your Railjack, separated from the rest of Warframe content.

To be fair, they have for a while now said that this is only the first step (or 1.5 step, if counting drydock) and they will expand on it, but, can't discount the possibility that they'll have to scale it back yet again as they bite off more than they can chew. They have really been juggling with too many massive projects all at once (Railjack, New War, Duviri, What they talked of Liches before scaling that back and releasing it half-baked, and earlier this year while working on all of these, the ones they've released that we mentioned, the remasters, Nightwave, etc, one reason again I suspect Nightwave also feels half-baked alongside Liches).

[(PSN)xxav1xl6ivax]

29 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

That's right!

PoE looks more natural and immersive than it was on release.

Jupiter remaster is a major improvement. I never cared for v1.0 of the Gas City tileset, it felt too unrealistically polished and ornate for an industrial complex. v2.0 looks more functional and suitably worn...although the forced parkour at times can be a real pain in the butt.

I couldn't agree more. PoE and Orb Vallis, despite being "open worlds", don't feel particularly "alive".

It's interesting that Steve mentioned "islands of content"...because they do very much feel like islands, despite the fact that they added resources there that are now required for certain things.

I can’t help but agree with THAT sense of how they “feel.” 
 

“DE” was quite resistant to, (if not reticently against) applying the term “open world.” They elected for “open landscape.” It was the “community” of players and press that persisted with talking about the nodes/content/systems in terms of being “open worlds.” Ultimately, to try any harder than they had already, to make a distinction, would have forced “DE” into a position that would be flat-out bad - to tell the patrons, supporters, players, publications, “That’s wrong. Stop saying they’re ‘open worlds.’ They’re not.” 

(Imaginary Press Headlines:

”Digital Extremes Scolds it’s Audience”

”Developer Biting The Manipulators The Feed it’s Kubrodon”

”DE Blows up Over Arguing Semantics”

”Closed Minded Devs Deny Open Worlds”

”The ‘New Dictators’ of ‘Free To Play’:

 Telling Us What The World Is Not”

”Totally Uncool”)

The “system” itself is not quite really “live” yet.

So, it seems ‘only natural,’ that the larger a “landscape” is within that system, harder it will be to get it to feel “live.”

To return to the building a ship in a bottle analogy, getting that ship to “feel” realistic, will take adding some water, and things that would be found in the surrounding and containing environment. 
 

It is a game, universe, system, that is not quite really “live” yet. 
 

The only real question seems to be, Wil it become apparent that Warframe is really “alive,” gradually, (after it has already become so), or with a “Frankenstein” Cinema sort of flair “It’s ALIVE!” or, perhaps do the first one, just to make sure, then do the second as a sort of showpiece?

(Of course if you’re gonna have water in there for the sake of a realistic effect, you’ll want to make sure there’s some blood in the water. Preferably Old Blood (and not YOUR blood ; )

 

[(PSN)xxav1xl6ivax]

Damn, now it’s about time to actually WATCH the Devstream (and find out how much of whatever I have posted here amounts to just “talking rubbish.”)

[BornWithTeeth]

So, bearing in mind that I am trying to be optimistic, and definitely giving it a chance, well....

 

Plus side: the mode looks absolutely gorgeous. Breathtakingly lovely. Interior of the Railjack too dark, but I'm sure that can be fixed. I like the UI. I actually like the idea of Intrinsic skill trees, they sound neat as hell.

 

Minus side: DE's team got their heads absolutely kicked in. You could literally see godmode activating to keep their Railjack alive, restoring their Hull to 1000 every time it dropped below 100. Their gunnery was not good. Combat wise, Rebecca launching in Archwing was more effective than their entire ship. Steve and Scott there being all "Well, we decided not to launch with solo support, it's a matter of difficulty...." and it being obvious that without dev build godmode, they'd have been free space debris within two minutes of the mission starting. Two. Minutes. Full team, co-op play, have already used the mode and know how it works, have some experience, have points in Intrinsics, ready to rock, ready to roll, dead in the first two minutes.
        Entire ship on fire, running around like headless chickens, half the crew spending the mission wielding fire extinguishers, godmode having to save their asses every couple of minutes, all objectives better handled by just launching in Archwing, can't build the stuff you need to run the ship until you put skill points into Engineer, obnoxious ship Cephalon doing nothing while the crew drown in micro-management, this mission didn't even require the crew to deal with enemy boarding. Trevor and Megan spent the entire mission trying to keep the ship alive, apparently, and it was pointless. Totally pointless. Can we get a count of how many times in that Skirmish we saw the Railjack hull points drop below 100 and then immediately pop back to 1000? It didn't look fun. It just looked like stressful micro-managey nonsense.

 

Jesus DE. Look, I hope y'all know that that Devstream did not exactly look amazing. It was like someone proudly announcing that they've built a blender and that they want to show off how good it is by sticking their hand in it. You want people to do this mode with PUGs? 

Actually, after the mission, I think they did know how bad that looked. That honestly looked like Steve was cringing himself inside out, and Sheldon and Rebecca heroically trying to be self deprecating and say that they're just a pair of terrible pilots. And that entire thing resulted in no avionics pickups and no apparent improvement in Intrinsics.

Scott: "There's lots of balance work left to do on this..."

 

 

Ok, back to Plus side: The dev team do know how dodgy that looked. Ok. Good sign. Scott openly saying that they overdid it and they don't actually want missions to require half the crew to be on damage control, very good sign.

 

Another plus thing: I genuinely like the fact that the Railjack plus one's Intrinsic spacing skills are a long term project. I do! I was disappointed that each lich is a nemesis for about three hours, that sucks, but the idea of having a ship that you work on, and having your Tenno develop spacing skills is cool.

 

[MirageKnight]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)xxav1xl6ivax said:

It is a game, universe, system, that is not quite really “live” yet. 

That's a fair point. PoE seems to be a bit more "alive" now than when it was first introduced, but it could use further work.

37 minutes ago, (PS4)xxav1xl6ivax said:

The only real question seems to be, Wil it become apparent that Warframe is really “alive,” gradually, (after it has already become so), or with a “Frankenstein” Cinema sort of flair “It’s ALIVE!” or, perhaps do the first one, just to make sure, then do the second as a sort of showpiece?

That could work.

38 minutes ago, (PS4)xxav1xl6ivax said:

Of course if you’re gonna have water in there for the sake of a realistic effect, you’ll want to make sure there’s some blood in the water. Preferably Old Blood (and not YOUR blood ; )

I see what you did there 😛

13 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Plus side: the mode looks absolutely gorgeous. Breathtakingly lovely. Interior of the Railjack too dark, but I'm sure that can be fixed. I like the UI. I actually like the idea of Intrinsic skill trees, they sound neat as hell.

Agreed. Gotta give credit where it's due.

15 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

The idea of having a ship that you work on, and having your Tenno develop spacing skills is cool.

Not going to argue with that. It's nice that the Railjack is content we won't burn through in a couple of days but rather improve over a span of perhaps a couple of weeks at the very least. I'd also say it's about time we got something like that 🙂

There are a few things that really concern me though. 

First, the devstream mission show-off looked to be a micro-intensive nightmare. I get that the team was in a mission whose level was way above what they should have tackled, but it really underscored how much running around and multi-tasking is needed in a firefight.

Another concern is the whole "build ammo and repair tools" in-mission gimmick. How exactly are they going to deal with the resources needed for them? Is it a shared pool or does that come from the Railjack's owner? Is it only resources gathered in the mission itself?

Thirdly, the lack of an AI / NPC crew to assist in the fight when this goes live might be a bit of an obstacle for some players, in particular solo players.

Finally, it's obvious that Phase 2 is going to be pushed out imminently. This begs a question: What else is going to be left out in DE's rush to get this into our hands?

 

[-TSA-Rubicon2.0]

On 2019-12-06 at 11:03 PM, Kylo. said:

People expecting a coop game to be playable solo. Interesting.

It is a mystery for me🤔🤔🤔

[insight81]

So thanks for dev stream love the game and I can’t stop playing so I have to say don’t change anything with the lich system please it’s great it requires time and actual effort and getting beat up works great for ego check and makes the game more enjoyable if anything added some recognition for slaying or converting lich like a signia or something what would be great would be making a specter a lich you have converted now the that would make the lich system more enticing but don’t make the kiva lich easy to beat we need a serious enemy thanks again for great work kiva lich specter 

[Eklectus]

3 hours ago, -TSA-Rubicon2.0 said:

It is a mystery for me🤔🤔🤔

Simple. It's not actually a co-op game and DE admitted that they're trying to force the co-op aspect harder into the game on this very stream. It has co-op elements, yes. You can play it in co-op, yes. But you're never forced.

Not everyone can engage in the multiplayer aspect for a multitude of reasons: Terrible P2P Host-Side ping, host migrations failing the entire mission, genuine lack of players due to region/time (This feeds into the previous points. Live in the Oceania region? You've got four options: play solo, play at very specific times, spend hours in Recruiting or switch to NA and either play with 350+ ping or give everyone else the same), wanting to take the mission at your own pace, simply not wanting to deal with other people (particularly PUGs, who don't owe you anything) and logging in to turn your brain off for a while.

There. Mystery solved.

[Pyrain]

On 2019-12-08 at 3:48 PM, TheKubaW said:

"You can't criticize warframe you guys"

Once again, someone who obviously cant read. Did you not see the part where i say they have made mistakes???? or where i said that there were plenty of concerns???  Obviously not, 'cause you wouldn't have written your response.  I happen to think there is a right way to criticize and a wrong way, and what i see too often around here is the wrong way.  It makes the forums a toxic place, rather than player-helping-player or criticizing DE in a CONSTRUCTIVE way.  If Warframe crashes, it wont be ALL DE's fault.  you'll carry some of the blame as well.

On 2019-12-08 at 4:43 PM, Eklectus said:

Yes, this is the first piece of advice that has been posted in a polite and constructive manner. It totally won't be dumpstered like the countless pieces of feedback before it.

So you think that we should just get on here and completely tear down everything DE does???  id think that would be the quickest way to getting your "advice" dumpstered.  Think about it.  If you had created something, and i came in telling you what a piece of s*** it is and you cant do anything right, how would you respond???  Now, same situation except I tell you there are some things I like, but there are some things that I have concerns over and here's how i think they can be fixed.  Which one has the higher chance of being told to go take a hike???  you cant sit there and tell me with a straight face its the first scenario.

Now,  all that was not the point of my original comment.  My original comment was about the way people post their issues.  currently Warframe Forums are more toxic than most YouTube channels.  let that sink in.  if things keep going the way they have here, the forums will become nothing but a cesspool, and DE will get rid of the forums.  i know i would under those circumstance.

[Pyrain]

12 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

There are a few things that really concern me though. 

First, the devstream mission show-off looked to be a micro-intensive nightmare. I get that the team was in a mission whose level was way above what they should have tackled, but it really underscored how much running around and multi-tasking is needed in a firefight.

Another concern is the whole "build ammo and repair tools" in-mission gimmick. How exactly are they going to deal with the resources needed for them? Is it a shared pool or does that come from the Railjack's owner? Is it only resources gathered in the mission itself?

Thirdly, the lack of an AI / NPC crew to assist in the fight when this goes live might be a bit of an obstacle for some players, in particular solo players.

Finally, it's obvious that Phase 2 is going to be pushed out imminently. This begs a question: What else is going to be left out in DE's rush to get this into our hands?

 

1.  I think the whole point was the multi tasking.  i could be wrong, but i think the point was that you had to have different people doing diferent things at different times.  not everyone can be in engineering or on the guns.  Now, if your point is that there is to much or its in the wrong areas, that i can see.

2.  I'd like to know were the 'sources come from too.  not so much because they should come from a certain player/place in the game, but because i want to be prepared.

3.  Agreed!  though i would say that the AI/NPC crew during co-op should be limited.  have a friend who is support through and through and he's essentially told me that he really doesn't want any AI/NPC's in the engineering.  I do think it would be helpful to have AI/NPC you could stick on the gunner posts when someone goes arching though.  also having a limited amount of repair personnel would be helpful as well.

4.  Did you mean imminently or were you going for immediately???  Either way, that is what im most concerned with as well.  DE, take you time please!!!!

[MirageKnight]

44 minutes ago, Pyrain said:

1.  I think the whole point was the multi tasking.  i could be wrong, but i think the point was that you had to have different people doing diferent things at different times.  not everyone can be in engineering or on the guns.  Now, if your point is that there is to much or its in the wrong areas, that i can see.

2.  I'd like to know were the 'sources come from too.  not so much because they should come from a certain player/place in the game, but because i want to be prepared.

3.  Agreed!  though i would say that the AI/NPC crew during co-op should be limited.  have a friend who is support through and through and he's essentially told me that he really doesn't want any AI/NPC's in the engineering.  I do think it would be helpful to have AI/NPC you could stick on the gunner posts when someone goes arching though.  also having a limited amount of repair personnel would be helpful as well.

4.  Did you mean imminently or were you going for immediately???  Either way, that is what im most concerned with as well.  DE, take you time please!!!!

1. I feel that there's too much to do and that there's some really menial stuff that could be better handled by NPC's or the ship's Cephalon so we can focus more on the combat. Which begs another question...What does Cy actually do? The lore indicates that previously Cy could take control of the ship as needed, so one would assume that could happen again.

2. Likewise.

3. Again, agreed. See 1.

4. Imminently. I, like a few others, suspect that Empyrean might be released this week. Hopefully, that won't be the case but Rebecca did hint at a big announcement for the 12th.

[Pyrain]

18 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

1. I feel that there's too much to do and that there's some really menial stuff that could be better handled by NPC's or the ship's Cephalon so we can focus more on the combat. Which begs another question...What does Cy actually do? The lore indicates that previously Cy could take control of the ship as needed, so one would assume that could happen again.

2. Likewise.

3. Again, agreed. See 1.

4. Imminently. I, like a few others, suspect that Empyrean might be released this week. Hopefully, that won't be the case but Rebecca did hint at a big announcement for the 12th.

1. …..Good point!  Hope Cy isn't just Railjack version of space mom.

4.  Ah!  Ok.  Ya, I'm just hoping that the announcement will be that its coming out at the end of the month or end of next.  i do think Phase 1 could be released in that time frame.  If AI.NPC's then probably next, but we shall see.  DE has a tendency to rush things, partially do to there own mistakes with previous content(I want raids back!!!!) but also partialy due to people pressuring them to release sooner.  patience is a virtue people!!!!

[Eklectus]

3 hours ago, Pyrain said:

So you think that we should just get on here and completely tear down everything DE does???

No, I think that praising a single comment for being polite and well-mannered when there are plenty others all over the site is funny enough to deserve a sarcastic quip. You say that the forums are getting toxic? I say that it shouldn't matter - DE have advertised a product and delivered something radically different without prior notice. They should've expected backlash. Yet there's still many threads offering advice/thoughts/comments on how they'd like to see it changed for the better, rather than outright flaming without offering anything constructive. Meanwhile, they themselves are showing so much arrogance towards said player feedback, i.e. Steve smugly talking about how the Liches kicking our ass is "fun" when faced with post upon post detailing why certain parts of their Lich system are not. And before you go for the "it's just a free game, DE can do what they want and you should be happy" line - yeah, it is a free game, which is why player goodwill should be that much more important for it.