New archwing flight is boringly terrible.

[Cynocles]

You took something so great (and the ONLY think I liked about POE) and made it boringly simple (An don't get me started on the issue with POE to begin with, Still out here hoping for some sort of POE caves update as there boring as hell and literally may as well not be there), I enjoyed the Roll, Yaw, & Pitch Mechanics, POE's flight pre-change was perfect in my opinion and all flight in every mission should have been that, As someone who's played a lot of flight games, You took something that was amazing and made it stupidly boring to do now, you have removed dimension from this element game and this current flight system has me a little worried for when Railjack drops.

Edited December 9, 2019 by TheCynicalKitty

[VisionAndVoice]

I can sympathize. I was really disappointed when I found I couldn't even do a loop.

[DarkRuler2500]

I personally like it very much.
The old one felt rather clunky.
IF DE were to include a toggle then everyone would probably be fine.

[DerGreif2]

The old one was fun but horrible to use. I prefer the new one because arching was never a thing I liked and when we look what we get in the future it's better this way.

[Althaline]

They improved Skywing by removing the "inertia" that made you skate across the map for 50 years, but they've removed the 6 degrees of freedom from space missions, which was a mistake.

[Matak-FR]

I prefer by far the new one, you are much more precise and you don't get constantly stun when you hit walls on corpus tileset

[Ikserdok]

17 minutes ago, Iamabearlulz said:

They improved Skywing by removing the "inertia" that made you skate across the map for 50 years, but they've removed the 6 degrees of freedom from space missions, which was a mistake.

maybe thye "improved" "inertia"...but this was fine and with sense to me

currently I feel it very weird stupidly and without sense at all

whne I fly fast then ofc when I will turn off "engines" I wont suddenly stop literally in place, ofc I will still have thrustfrom my speed not allowing me instantly to stop especially in air...and then we have it now..from nowhere...without sense

and I just cant accept this as how I liked it before and now? I liked to speed for moment and stop speeding and still glide while at same time maybe looking for something else around, in game

 

and as I said....it is big nonsense to not glide after flying with high speed, it is big nonsense to suddenly stop in just midair when we turn off our turbo after high speed and even besides sense of it.....I feel it to weird, unhandily...it is like to "stiff" for me this new archwing movement, from nice smooth to unhandily stiff

[AlphaPHENIX]

No amount of ''It's Void Magic'' excuses the complete removal of inertia, none.

If I can give any compliments to the new system, it's that it somewhat improoved sharkwing (Uranus underwater segments), but that's it. And unless we get an underwater open world, I am not going to care as much about sharkwing as I do regular and landscape archwing, which has been screwed over for many, including me.

[Azrael_V]

Its great actually. I've spent alot of time recently doing Fortuna Bounties using my Archwing. That includes maneuvering through caves with relative ease. Prior to this update I would never have dreamt of that. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Azrael_V

[Steel_Rook]

3 hours ago, Ikserdok said:

whne I fly fast then ofc when I will turn off "engines" I wont suddenly stop literally in place, ofc I will still have thrustfrom my speed not allowing me instantly to stop especially in air...and then we have it now..from nowhere...without sense

Yeah, but that makes for clumsy gameplay and needlessly complex controls. Warframe is not a flight sim. It doesn't have any real unified physics simulation. It's mostly a hodge-podge of forced acceleration based on animation state. Your argument about disabling your engines and drifting only applies to some animation states, chiefly Hover. It does not apply to Boost, where you used to be able to pull off an instant 180 if you pressed Back on the controls, completely disrespecting momentum and acceleration. The new system is harsh and definitely needs a few more visual and audio effects to denote retro-thrusters, but that's not the point. The point was to create an Archwing system where players were easily in control of their movement and could focus on where they wanted to go, not how to avoid bumping into walls or drifting past their target.

Point is, decent controls trump "realism," to the extent that even applies to space ninja wizards who can levitate super jumps while sliding in mid air.

[Ikserdok]

48 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

The point was to create an Archwing system where players were easily in control of their movement and could focus on where they wanted to go, not how to avoid bumping into walls or drifting past their target.

probably..but at current state as I called it it feel to "stiff" and with it it is more unhandily which is main reason I prefer old archwing movement..I really like old archwing movement at all...but this is an main reason why I just hate current archwing movement system

[Steel_Rook]

7 minutes ago, Ikserdok said:

probably..but at current state as I called it it feel to "stiff" and with it it is more unhandily which is main reason I prefer old archwing movement..I really like old archwing movement at all...but this is an main reason why I just hate current archwing movement system

I don't know what you mean by "unhandly," but the removal of momentum and drift makes the new system objectively easier to control. Movement happens only when you request it, and only the requested movement is carried out. Movement stops when you stop inputting movement commands. You are in direct control of your Archwing's position, rather than trying to balance the forces affecting it (to the extent that the fake momentum system allowed you to do that). I get that you don't like it, but that doesn't make it harder to control.

About the only point I'm willing to concede is that Boost moving you forward constantly is a bad design very likely borne out of DE not wanting to make a whole suite of new animations, but similarly wanting to avoid the situation with the current Boost where strafing animations are completely broken. They haven't even managed that, however, as flying up and down via the new system still lacks its own dedicated animation anyway. All of that, however, is a separate issue.

[DroopingPuppy]

As if old archwing flight wasn't terrible? Sir, it always does.

Edited December 9, 2019 by DroopingPuppy

[Serafim_94]

It's way better for getting from point A to point B without crashing your head in the land to stop. That's not question of opinion - it's a fact.

[MattHarrigan]

53 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

It's way better for getting from point A to point B without crashing your head in the land to stop. That's not question of opinion - it's a fact.

It's easier to use now, that's for sure, but it just feels "dumbed down" now, like an arcade game.

Inertia is important for the feel of things...

The ability to stop makes it easy to play... and frankly that was the only thing I missed in the pre-change system. 

[Ikserdok]

3 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

I don't know what you mean by "unhandly," but the removal of momentum and drift makes the new system objectively easier to control. Movement happens only when you request it, and only the requested movement is carried out. Movement stops when you stop inputting movement commands. You are in direct control of your Archwing's position, rather than trying to balance the forces affecting it (to the extent that the fake momentum system allowed you to do that). I get that you don't like it, but that doesn't make it harder to control.

About the only point I'm willing to concede is that Boost moving you forward constantly is a bad design very likely borne out of DE not wanting to make a whole suite of new animations, but similarly wanting to avoid the situation with the current Boost where strafing animations are completely broken. They haven't even managed that, however, as flying up and down via the new system still lacks its own dedicated animation anyway. All of that, however, is a separate issue.

for me it is unhandly, previous change I liked it, it had sometimes flaws but I knew how it was working and so I had more use of this previous system, I could sometimes just "exploit" this drifting for my own business, laziness, not it is just impossible 😞 maybe these things was really small to care...but they was a things on hand for me, I also could compare it as small QoL or just comfort and I will still stay with my opinion as: before I feeled smooth movement on archwing, now I feel it very stiff

[Mikhael222]

Strongly disagree.  It's much more responsive in both flight and combat.  I've been doing a lot more bounties in my archwing now.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Mikhael222

[Intotsu]

For my part, I tested the new system playing Arcwing missions which had given me particular difficulty (Pursuit and Rush). The only issues that I had (For Rush in particular) was it no longer was the angle or the direction that I was aiming at that made me collide into everything, but the sheer speed at which you move during boost mode. Other than that, maneuverability has been greatly improved on my end. 

Chalk it up to my inexperience with the other system though.

Edit: I would say, momentum is well conserved if you are in boost mode, probably too much. If braking slowed your momentum enough that I could more easily turn, I would probably be able to constantly be in boost mode. However, the blink ability also seems to throw this momentum way off, to the point where if I blink in missions, even if I brake immediately after, I end up killing myself by crashing into walls. 

I'm going to try this without toggled sprint/boost to see if that works better. It probably does, considering the issues I've had.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Intotsu

[Intotsu]

Tried it again without toggled sprint/boost. The new level of maneuverability is incredible. I wish I could make it so that I could toggle sprint in regular missions and not in arcwing. It feels a heck of a lot better with that setting.

 

[SpringRocker]

I used to like playing Archwing missions just because...

After the changes it feels horrible to either be blazing forward at top speed or sitting still with no inbetween. The way things were before allowed a level of speed control, not anymore. Also with the removal of 3-axis rotation the space battles might as well be field battles.

Titania was also my go to for sorties (not anymore either). Pretty much the same the same reasons, can't control her speed (for people wondering what I'm talking about you didn't need to constantly have your finger pressing forward to move forward, you could coast at different speeds with a good level of control). I hear all kinds of people talk about how she's better, but whenever I see people using her they're just sitting stationary. You can't even move around while shooting with her, it's either moving forward or slight strafing while in "hover" mode. Forget about even attempting to do the Titania strafing runs, you no longer can move up enough while moving forward to attack strafe enemies anymore.

It's not skywing or archwing anymore, it's basically sprinting around with a noclip code.

[MattHarrigan]

17 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

It's not skywing or archwing anymore, it's basically sprinting around with a noclip code.

^ This.

[Steel_Rook]

20 hours ago, Intotsu said:

For my part, I tested the new system playing Arcwing missions which had given me particular difficulty (Pursuit and Rush). The only issues that I had (For Rush in particular) was it no longer was the angle or the direction that I was aiming at that made me collide into everything, but the sheer speed at which you move during boost mode. Other than that, maneuverability has been greatly improved on my end. 

It's an artefact of the Boost model DE chose to adpot. While in Boost, you're always travelling in Afterburner, where previously you could toggle that by holding either of the Afterburner keys. While I'm personally a fan of having fewer "speeds" to choose from, I still don't see why either the Froward or Back key couldn't have been allowed to do SOMETHING. Either make us hold Forward for Afterburner or let it be always on but holding Back would disable it. It's just... It's always odd to me when DE remove functionality from buttons.

[Educated_Beast]

I don't get the afterburner always on or the removal of rolling. 

- I like the removal of momentum on stop but even that should have a control, i.e. a thruster break that worked like #2 on itzal.  Press and stop.  If you don't press, you keep moving until naturally slow down.  

Only thing I can think is they needed to dumb down controls for Xbox / PS4 controllers.  PC can remap keyboard bindings and IMO a mouse is >>>> a controller.  They may have removed roll to keep flight easy for controllers so they can blink.  

A PC should be able to remap blink (hell to space bar since it's no longer used for anything), and still fly.  

[Berzerkules]

8 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

I don't get the afterburner always on or the removal of rolling. 

- I like the removal of momentum on stop but even that should have a control, i.e. a thruster break that worked like #2 on itzal.  Press and stop.  If you don't press, you keep moving until naturally slow down.  

Only thing I can think is they needed to dumb down controls for Xbox / PS4 controllers.  PC can remap keyboard bindings and IMO a mouse is >>>> a controller.  They may have removed roll to keep flight easy for controllers so they can blink.  

A PC should be able to remap blink (hell to space bar since it's no longer used for anything), and still fly.  

I find it much more difficult on a controller after the changes. Before I could use my momentum to drift while aiming down at enemies and not be a stationary target in open world bounties. Now since you fly down if looking down I can't aim and maintain altitude since I need to use my right thumb to do both. I can move side to side on a parallel plane but forward and back are angled to the direction you are aiming. I need to constantly move my thumb off the right stick (aim) to gain altitude. This makes for extremely jerky flight. It just feels unnatural. I wasn't a fan of the previous flight controls but these are much worse. What makes it worse Is I can't remap the controls for archwing without changing them for all game play. I'm not going to change my controls every time I need to do anything in archwing. Also I have yet figured out how to blink with a controller. I do agree that kb+mouse > controller but I injured my keyboard hand and wasd is incredibly difficult now.