What the Developers NEED to Know About Tenno

[(XBOX)DarknessZeref]

On 2019-12-17 at 7:36 PM, Miyabi-sama said:

Both wrong.

1st in my personal case.

2nd in common sense.

1) Your case is your business, the rest of us on the same page buck-O

2) And please do tell how exceptionally building an intergalactic arsenal of biohumanoid robotic weaponized suits controlled by space poisoned children pursuant of a war with sentient interplanetary terraformers is merely common sense. I mean yes, it's a video game, but, have some appreciation for this masterwork and some compassion for those who get lost in the vastness of it all.  

[(XBOX)DarknessZeref]

On 2019-12-17 at 8:18 PM, George_PPS said:

From my experience of roughly  4K in-game hours, the pinnacle of the fun factors and tremendous powers Tennos are equipped with is from 2017 to late 2018.

Ahhh the Banshee quakes and Ember knockdowns. Blessed be thy Ash spam

[(XBOX)DarknessZeref]

On 2019-12-17 at 9:41 PM, Lightel03 said:

Something else I don`t agree with is your affirmation that the fun factor of warframe is completely dependent on the power fantasy feeling.

That's real, can respect that.

 

On 2019-12-17 at 9:41 PM, Lightel03 said:

So you`re saying that because you are wealthy and famous, and therefore smart, you should be listened to by DE more than everyone in this forum or anywhere else. And if DE continues to ingore your suggestions, you will stop investing in the game.

Wow ya'll really didn't like those couple words, huh? Quote the lines where I say I should be listened to more than everyone in this forum or anywhere else.

On 2019-12-17 at 9:41 PM, Lightel03 said:

just because you spend more money in a free to play game, I`m assuming

I make it a point not to put money into the game unless I'm feeling particularly good about the Dev team and have a direct use for the purchased content. I speak to the potential of extracting more cash from people who otherwise won't spend, like myself, via experiential manipulation. You already know what they say about assumptions though, I'm sure. 

On 2019-12-17 at 9:41 PM, Lightel03 said:

My favorite warframe is Mesa

Next to get nerfed. Then you won't log on to the forums to reply, you'll just frown at your system and log off Warframe. Mesa has been overpowered since always, despite her limitations and I'm using her A TON before they catch on and ruin whatever day they decide to address her.

On 2019-12-17 at 9:41 PM, Lightel03 said:

the fun in gameplay doesn`t come just from the act of killing a bunch, but from what it takes to kill a bunch effectively.

I disagree with you here. I appreciate your feedback, I am reading it thoughtfully. the idea of what it takes to kill a bunch is not what excites me. It feels stupid to call down my archgun simply to take out Profit taker's legs when it's helpful nowhere else. It's cumbersome to farm requiem mods specifically to attack a kuva lich that you'll eventually stop farming. It's infuriating that the only archgun that works effectively in railjack needs all 4 dual status mods from all these obscure and sometimes unreachable places when it's actually only effective or used in that single space. I don't find all of that fun, I find it symptomatic of minmaxing. Personally having these things hasn't shielded me from the reality of those barriers restricting clanmates from running with me to maximal effect. These kinds of perpetual road blocks requiring investments into the short-term really irk me more than anything. What we want is security in our builds and we lack security when our builds are based on changeable details. I don't buy a smith & wesson .40 cal thinking it might get changed into a .22 one day. They'd have to make a whole new gun, right? Let's take steps away from the God complex in the context of weapon balancing. 

[2ndPersonPlural]

On 2019-12-17 at 3:27 PM, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

There are 2 main points I believe the developers are missing in relation to the Warframe community

• We play the game because we are allowed to be absurdly powerful given proper investment
• The people who excel at Warframe tend to be particularly smart and usually wealthy

POINT 1: Myself and everyone I speak to about Warframe have unanimous affection for the high range, high damage and high satisfaction style of combat. You can decimate hordes with a variety of warframe and weapon combinations which is just satisfying(For its own sake). Think about it this way, any time I get a new thing or launch a power I get a burst of dopamine. When I get on and see my Zenistar doesn't do anything, I've lost a dopamine stream and my perception of enjoying the game is significantly reduced. This is an effect we're seeing across the disciplines affected by each nerf and why veteran game players like myself ultimately stop playing one game or another- they "balance" everything to a point where getting anything is a hassle and finding what is enjoyable to experience turns into a Easter egg hunt instead of a symptom of game play. What matters isn't how much I kill or even what I kill, but the experience of doing so. The more you manipulate my experience of the game, the more significant and extreme my reaction. You could be enhancing the game for the bugs, glitches, fact that my clan logo appears on some flags and not others- type of things that I would LOVE. Rather, you're reducing things. Reducing things reduces me when I use it in game. Reducing me reduces my experience. Reducing my experience below a certain point causes me to drop the game no matter the game. We all love Warframe because it's epic on the scale of power compared to other games- give me an epic enemy, don't go against Warframe's value proposition in the marketplace. *cough cough DE SCOTT

POINT 2: Just last night I met a man playing Warframe (MR14) who works as a manager for a company that develops security software for public transportation systems. Some of his clients include the City of New York and LA to name 2. This is typical of high skill players I've met I mean one of my clan members (MR16) is a bodyguard in Atlanta who's done work for Jay Z, TI and other famous people along with deployments overseas. Personally, I own several businesses and appeared in several TV shows and podcasts speaking about financial literacy and empowering the next generation of professionals. Another clanmate (MR24) is an 18 year old guy who developed a software so impressive in school, he worked at IBM and now Lenovo all without a college degree. Another cool person I met has a graphic design company, so they began an alliance and offered free amazing logos to its members while being entirely reticent about their multi-million dollar earning year. What am I saying? We ain't dumb. We have money. When we break our silence as celebrities, moguls and generally cool people- we do so because we believe you'll listen. We respect your immense programming talent to have produced such an amazing game, it's time to respect our sentience as residents within this home you've created to accurately point out where the paint is chipping and when the A/C stops working. We have verbal conversations on a daily basis related to all of the tiny things you miss and all of the enhancements that we would love to see and how the game can be improved from a variety of creative perspectives. I post this to hopefully broaden your perspective about who you're serving and potentially incite the team to embrace the feedback received concerning so many swift and major changes. Ultimately I'm speaking to you as an investor. When I'm happy, I give you money. Go back into our accounts and see when you made us happy as a reference point for your bottom line. Feel free to push us out by refusing to listen, we become awfully comfortable game hopping when a development team is too strong-willed about their feelings for their own game and obstinate in the face of progression- which we don't think you are as evidenced by taking the time out to post at all. Please prove us right. 

Warframe has a very positive reputation of not being P2W and not attracting whales (who tend to be toxic and detract from the experience of the rest of the players).

If you believe every Warframe player who says they're a high-power businessperson, I'm sorry, you're believing a lot of garbage.

Your push against balance and to prioritize bug fixes at the expense of new content ignore the reality of what attracts people to free-to-play service games.  The only game that ever came close to making the polish over content model work was Planetside 2, and it's dying, and is a drastically different genre from Warframe.

[(XBOX)poodlebingo 65]

You don't need intelligence to become rich or powerful. One glaring example of this is, perhaps, the most powerful man in the world. Mind you, he thinks he's bigly intelligent.

I do agree that this game has deteriorated and that the fun vs grind has grown out of balance. DE does not listen and they've been dishonest, eg Zenistar nerf. I've uninstalled the game, which in itself is insignificant, it does mean though that DE have lost revenue. How many more?

Merry Christmas and a peaceful New Year.

[Steel_Rook]

On 2019-12-17 at 9:27 PM, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

Myself and everyone I speak to about Warframe have unanimous affection for the high range, high damage and high satisfaction style of combat. You can decimate hordes with a variety of warframe and weapon combinations which is just satisfying(For its own sake).

You're conflating "power fantasy" with "S#&$ balance" here. It's entirely possible to have a game which allows the player to burn through hordes of enemies most of the time without breaking its own gameplay mechanics and preventing itself from having any kind of meaningful difficulty spike. It's entirely possible to have a power trip without utterly broken balance. Warframe isn't that game. Its scaling both in terms of player stats and enemy stats is absurd to the point of gameplay systems simply not functioning, or not functioning correctly. When weapons can easily be boosted to *200 their base stats and enemies can reach 95%+ damage resistance and enough DPS to one-shot anything that isn't a tank, you have a problem. When some people can complain the game is too easy unless you're fighting level 300 enemies and others struggle to push past Jupiter, you have a problem. Power creep leads to teething design issues down the line and spreads players along a gradient of power so wide that it's impossible for anything whatsoever to be balanced.

I'm of the opinion that Warframe is overdue for major, systemic nerfs and large-scale core mechanics redesigns. At the very least, player buffs need to stop stacking multiplicatively, especially for damage. That alone should close the power gap drastically, though it would obviously also be a major nerf. Next, enemy armour needs to not scale at all, but be fixed per critter and enemy EHP needs to scale linearly with level, not via the current quadratic or whatever approach DE use. And then you have shoddy systems which could use improvements, such as per pellet status chance for weapons with native multishot, and status chance in general. I'd argue critical hit as well can use an update. Enemy design, too, needs an overhaul - ideally reducing the number of different units who spawn per map, making Common enemies less powerful but making Special and Miniboss enemies more powerful and more complex to fight.

Warframe as it stands right now is a mess of legacy systems barely strung together. We're long overdue for major fixes, but doing so would "upset" people. I'm personally of the opinion, however, that a few hurt feelings are ultimately a small price to pay for the stable future of Warframe.

[Volinus7]

On 2019-12-18 at 2:27 AM, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

investor

You could probably talk to the company that owns DE instead? 

https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/02/gamesbeat-boss-interview-chinas-leyou-moves-from-chicken-meat-to-triple-a-game-publishing/

[Midas]

On 2019-12-17 at 2:34 PM, peterc3 said:

This is their game, it is not ours to dictate how it is developed.

You have tied your fun to a thing that is explicitly under development. They will never not change weapons when they are just a means to AFK farm. Your enjoyment is subterranean compared to the health of the overall game.

You have the dev/player relationship massively twisted. You are not and never will be DE's boss, no matter how many super real people you totally have regular conversations with.

YOU ARE MY HERO!

I love it when people understand the latter on consequences of over powered stuff.

The game suffers and the player base dwindles.

Another thing op is intelligent people realize this ^^

To think ahead or walk a mile in the game's shoes is a great sign of intelligence.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Midas

[(XBOX)DarknessZeref]

14 hours ago, 2ndPersonPlural said:

Your push against balance and to prioritize bug fixes at the expense of new content ignore the reality of what attracts people to free-to-play service games.

Bug fixes matter to the users onboarded directly after the initial attraction stage. If they experience a game to their disliking, they discontinue playing. Retention matters big time. Bug fixes promote retention. 

[DrakeWurrum]

9 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

large-scale core mechanics redesigns

Last time that happened, people jumped on the forums to scream bloody murder because they were upset about it. It was Melee 3.0, in case you forgot.

I'm personally happy with it, mind you. And I've been asking for a Companions 2.0 and a Damage 3.0 for a while now. (Railjack damage system gives me hope on the latter)

9 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Next, enemy armour needs to not scale at all, but be fixed per critter and enemy EHP needs to scale linearly with level, not via the current quadratic or whatever approach DE use.

Also, of course... AI scaling, enemy spawn scaling, enemy HP/damage/armor scaling... Definitely want to see those handled better.

Enemy scaling works fine up to about... level 100, maybe 120, but after that it gets ridiculous.

9 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

ideally reducing the number of different units who spawn per map

Wait, what? If anything there aren't enough spawns!

Edited December 26, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[(XBOX)DarknessZeref]

7 hours ago, Midas said:

I love it when people understand the latter on consequences of over powered stuff.

The thing is that we have multiple overpowered warframes, guns, and melees. They pick and choose for one reason or another which of the best working weapons gets a power loss. These same feedback threads are full of people complaining that "unless you have a chiseled build, you won't be killing much dealing with objectives.". If I could just bring Arca Plasmor or Kohm, Sobek, Lenz, Zarr, Rubico, Glaxion, Quartakk or etc I would consider this idea of "balance" to be real, but in reality Lenz isn't doing anything, Zarr will kill me if I don't put 8 or 9 forma in it. Rubico is single target, Glaxion simply got nerfed sideways and is laughable 6 forma riven, primed bane mod and all. Kuva Kohm is a yessir, Kuva Quartakk is a big yessir, Arca Plasmor is great elsewhere, but lackluster here. Sobek might work, might try later.

Those other weapons would ALL have been viable choices prior to their individual reworks. The idea is that I should have choices? Well they have effectively been narrowed. Having multiple standouts is a positive thing that allows players lower to the ground access to one gun or another that'll help them for longer periods of their playing career. It's certainly a discussion worth having, my point in contributing to the forums is to point out that the past 2 1/2 years has been absolutely gucci, but ya'll starting to trip now low key and it's making me and the homies frownie face a lil bit.

[DrakeWurrum]

1 minute ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

The thing is that we have multiple overpowered warframes, guns, and melees.

I would argue the opposite. We have multiple underpowered frames, guns, melee, etc.

[(XBOX)DarknessZeref]

8 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

You could probably talk to the company that owns DE instead? 

https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/02/gamesbeat-boss-interview-chinas-leyou-moves-from-chicken-meat-to-triple-a-game-publishing/

Retweet. Real One Alert

[(XBOX)DarknessZeref]

Just now, DrakeWurrum said:

I would argue the opposite. We have multiple underpowered frames, guns, melee, etc.

I agree

[(XBOX)DarknessZeref]

9 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Warframe as it stands right now is a mess of legacy systems barely strung together.

I can't really stand for your long-winded way of insulting this incredible game man. They have done an amazing job with what they already have. If they only held a creative vision for the way things currently work and manage their own scope of what's meant to be powerful for us then we'll be on even terms. With these forums and our help they are doing everything I expect them to and it's appreciated.

All of what you're saying sounds like A LOT of work and no one's insinuating they can't do it, but an entire foundational overhaul of how we fight in the midst of railjack, the implications of projects like Eidolons and Profit Takers, soon to be Lich railjacks and more? It would be a move big enough to sabotage their own success and run Warframe into unplayable territory just in time to talk about budget cuts. Ouch. I'm not with ya man, appreciate your feedback. 

[2ndPersonPlural]

15 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Wait, what? If anything there aren't enough spawns!

I wouldn't mind some missions with a lower number of more powerful enemies

[Aldain]

39 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I would argue the opposite. We have multiple underpowered frames, guns, melee, etc.

Technically it is both, some are comically strong and others are pathetically weak.

The weakness of some guns has become even more noticeable after the melee adjustments brought the floor for melee weapons up (I know the ceiling dropped, but I don't consider killing level 1000+ enemies to still be Warframe at that point) so now several guns just feel utterly terrible because they no longer have bad melee weapons to be compared to.

It is a similar effect after Ember and Vauban got buffed, several frames suddenly got worse by comparison, Nyx in particular stands out to me because now Ember and Vauban both have one button armor strip her Psychic Bolts are just less effective by comparison for example.

The goal of balancing is trying to bring the outliers of both ends into some form of closeness, at least that is where my balance philosophy stands.

...Also I just want the Veldt to not be considered a joke gun.

[Lightel03]

17 hours ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

Wow ya'll really didn't like those couple words, huh? Quote the lines where I say I should be listened to more than everyone in this forum or anywhere else.

In your second point, there`s this line that, perhaps by my stupid interpretation, comes off with that meaning:

"What am I saying? We ain't dumb. We have money. When we break our silence as celebrities, moguls and generally cool people- we do so because we believe you'll listen"

17 hours ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

Next to get nerfed. Then you won't log on to the forums to reply, you'll just frown at your system and log off Warframe. Mesa has been overpowered since always, despite her limitations and I'm using her A TON before they catch on and ruin whatever day they decide to address her.

I don`t think you understood what my point was. In the paragraph I describe her gameplay loop, and how I personally enjoy playing through it, I was implying that Mesa was fun to play, not because she is a good frame, but because she, and her abilities, make the game fun for me. As for a better example, take Rahetalius, that has played Vauban even in the years before his rework, he doesn`t use Vauban because it`s a good frame, he uses it because he enjoys playing it.

I`m suggesting that warframes and weapons should both be given buffs and that fun aspect to them, because it`s the thing that dictates if I even enjoy using said equipment or not. My issue is that many frames and weapons don`t have that, and you suggest that we should just buff everything that isn`t high level compatible, but why would I ever use a gun or frame that I don`t enjoy using? Why not buff everything, and figure out a fun gameplay loop that would make the weapon or frame fun to use.

For example, let`s say all weapons are buffed to make them viable in lvl100 missions, would anyone use the Kraken, or the Acrid? Just because it`s viable doesn`t mean it`s fun. They should strive to be both.

18 hours ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

I disagree with you here. I appreciate your feedback, I am reading it thoughtfully. the idea of what it takes to kill a bunch is not what excites me. It feels stupid to call down my archgun simply to take out Profit taker's legs when it's helpful nowhere else. It's cumbersome to farm requiem mods specifically to attack a kuva lich that you'll eventually stop farming. It's infuriating that the only archgun that works effectively in railjack needs all 4 dual status mods from all these obscure and sometimes unreachable places when it's actually only effective or used in that single space. I don't find all of that fun, I find it symptomatic of minmaxing. Personally having these things hasn't shielded me from the reality of those barriers restricting clanmates from running with me to maximal effect. These kinds of perpetual road blocks requiring investments into the short-term really irk me more than anything. What we want is security in our builds and we lack security when our builds are based on changeable details. I don't buy a smith & wesson .40 cal thinking it might get changed into a .22 one day. They'd have to make a whole new gun, right? Let's take steps away from the God complex in the context of weapon balancing. 

It`s understandable how one could fit my quote to many areas of the game, I`m sorry for my stupid writing. These roadblocks you mentioned aren`t really part of the core gameplay I was talking about, they`re mostly just stupid oversighted mistakes made by the devs in the journey to complete their "vision". Here`s the best way I can put it:

When playing Ember, to kill a bunch of guys effectively, you have to balance the heat meter so that it doesn`t go overboard while also trying to keep it as high as possible,  and if done correctly allows you to kill a bunch of guys.

You need skill to complete the task, and by completing the task, you are rewarded with the killing of a bunch of guys. 

So what`s more fun? Skillfully completing the task, or being rewarded with the killing? It may be a personal thing, but I very much so enjoy completing the task.

[Steel_Rook]

2 hours ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

All of what you're saying sounds like A LOT of work and no one's insinuating they can't do it, but an entire foundational overhaul of how we fight in the midst of railjack, the implications of projects like Eidolons and Profit Takers, soon to be Lich railjacks and more? It would be a move big enough to sabotage their own success and run Warframe into unplayable territory just in time to talk about budget cuts. Ouch. I'm not with ya man, appreciate your feedback. 

It's only a lot of work because DE keep putting it off and making the issues worse. They apply band aid solutions, enough to keep most of the balance problems below the surface, but it's DRASTICALLY curtailing DE's ability to add new content, new systems or any kind of meaningful encounters which don't break down into simple damage trades. One need look no fruther than the Wolf of Saturn Six and the many iterations that went through as DE tried to find a middle ground between the min/maxers, the regular players and the newbies with MK1 gear, and they couldn't find one. AT BEST Wolf was a bag of Hit Points, and whether you liked or disliked him largely came down to whether or not you could out-DPS him. The longer issues go ignored, the more workarounds get put in place, the more systems get balanced around shoddy balance, the larger the amount of work it is to fix but none of that diminishes the NEED to fix it.

Railjack itself is a field-test for a potential fix to the current damage system. DE have gone on the record as confirming that the Railjack damage system is a field-test of a potential new way to handle ground combat system. I for one feel they're on the right track - fewer damage types with less redundancy, no difference in damage done to individual health types, a greater emphasis on meaningful status effects - this could be a major step for ground combat, though it will likely break Slash exploitation and True damage on finishers - as it should. I'm not arguing that all of this has to happen RITE NAO!!! but it has to happen eventually in one form or another. Warframe's current state of balance is not tenable and ultimately destructive towards future content. It needs to be addressed, or we're going to keep getting factions like the Terra Corpus and mission types set at level 100+, and the people those are intended to challenge still won't be challenged anyway.

A properly-balanced game can be both a power fantasy and provide meaningful complexity with much smaller numbers.

 

2 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Last time that happened, people jumped on the forums to scream bloody murder because they were upset about it. It was Melee 3.0, in case you forgot. I'm personally happy with it, mind you. And I've been asking for a Companions 2.0 and a Damage 3.0 for a while now. (Railjack damage system gives me hope on the latter)

And that's the issue, unfortunately. Any large-scale change will trigger large-scale blowback. That's the nature of game design and has held consistent throughout pretty much every game I've played. "They changed it, now it sucks." This, I think, is where developers need to show some amount of spine, absorb some amount of blowback and trust the strength of their changes. Complaints about a new system will always be there, but complaints about an improvement tend to die out eventually. Bitter people will always complain about it, but the community by and large will get used to positive change. For as much criticism as Melee 3.0 got, I'm of the opinion that that was ultimately successful, even if it's not exactly how I want it. It's still buggy and that IS an issue with DE - backlash to shoddy implementation often appears like backlash against core design, when it's unrelated. Look at the accidental heavy attack issue - that's not a problem with Melee 3.0, it's a problem with their heavy attack implementation.

Yes, a major game rebalance would be a gamble, but I honestly feel it's a gamble worth making. Warframe's combat system is currently perpetually set to 11, with multipliers and modifiers set so high that even minor changes have unintended cascading consequences. Just for the sake of the game's underlying architecture, serious changes are in order.

 

2 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Wait, what? If anything there aren't enough spawns!

I was referring to the number of DIFFERENT units - how many different versions of "dude with gun" can spawn on the same map. Right now, a single Warframe mission can sometimes host a couple dozen different unitu types, even if most of them are practically redundant. I believe it's smarter to reduce enemy variety per mission. Have one or two types of Common enemies, have maybe four types of Special/Elite enemies, have one type of Miniboss and use just those. You can still spawn a large number of enemies, it would just be a large number of mostly the same enemies. Too many enemy types on the map make them all feel redundant, causing people to not really care about what it is they're shooting, exactly. There's very little gain to target recognition or target priority, and for what? So we can have several different colours of Grineer soldiers who all behave the same?

Break major factions down into Corps, have units from only a single Corps spawn, and maybe we'll actually care about what this enemy does that we're shooting at it, even if it's something as simple as "more Elite Lancers." Too much variety all at once leads to lack of individual distinction, thereby defeating the purpose.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Steel_Rook

[Aldain]

8 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

One need look no fruther than the Wolf of Saturn Six and the many iterations that went through as DE tried to find a middle ground between the min/maxers, the regular players and the newbies with MK1 gear, and they couldn't find one. AT BEST Wolf was a bag of Hit Points, and whether you liked or disliked him largely came down to whether or not you could out-DPS him.

[MirageKnight]

On 2019-12-17 at 2:34 PM, peterc3 said:

This is their game.

Yeah, we know that. What's your point?

Quote

it is not ours to dictate how it is developed.

It is if DE expects us to play their game and engage in most - if not all - of its systems.

They want us to play? They're going to have to make concessions at some point. Concessions based on, you guessed it, player feedback. You want to be popular and stay popular? You need to listen to what people have to say and be willing to accommodate them.

Sure they don't HAVE to listen to us...at the same time, we neither have to play something we don't like nor do we have to support DE (financially or otherwise) for making decisions we don't like.

Warframe's success was built mostly on word of mouth reputation. People supported Warframe because they thought it was worth it and because DE looked to be a company that listens. Warframe's success can be turned into a downward spiral into oblivion the more they ignore player feedback and continue to throw out rushed content just for the sake of having it out there.

 

 

[kapn655321]

On 2019-12-17 at 3:07 PM, George_PPS said:

destroying fun

When a handful of overpowered weapons dominate the usage, new content will be created to fit the usage.
Each time that happens, everything outside of the dominant strategy is nerfed comparatively, as it is accessible to fewer and fewer weapons.

If you happen to use the powerful weapons, the experience is in line.
If you do not happen to enjoy those weapons, the experience gets more broken over time.
By nerfing a handful of weapons, they buffed the ones not considered so,
as all future content is aimed to make them perform against the enemy comparatively, as the broken ones once had.

When it is not at all possible in their capacity as developers to fix actual hundreds of other weapons,
There is no choice but to do this.

The content drought around september was not good to them.
How would they double down to fix hundreds of weapons, in order to meet new enemies every few months/weeks?
Their hands were tied, and the non-meta weapons were future proofed as a result.

Not the doom and gloom miserable S#&$ show it sounds like.
 

[KochDerFrettchen]

Here here

Gearbox, I love your games, but I don't feel strong enough, please make all of your swords deal two meeleeon damages, except for my favorite sword, that should do at least tree meels.  Did I mention me and my friends are very wealthy? Very wealthy. Thank you, keep up the great work on Call of Duty: Wrath of the Lich King.

[(XBOX)DarknessZeref]

53 minutes ago, Lightel03 said:

I don`t think you understood what my point was. In the paragraph I describe her gameplay loop, and how I personally enjoy playing through it

This point, which we agree on- Mesa is a goddess, is part of a function the developers may choose to change. Generally speaking, we like some frames and not others based on preference. They may find her loop to be "out of balance" I mean it's effective and we're talking about their perpetual obsession with attacking the effective.

56 minutes ago, Lightel03 said:

You need skill to complete the task, and by completing the task, you are rewarded with the killing of a bunch of guys. 

So what`s more fun? Skillfully completing the task, or being rewarded with the killing? It may be a personal thing, but I very much so enjoy completing the task.

The idea is that building the darn frame and investing exilus, potato, forma, research and arcanes would be rewarded with the ability to kill- not another cringey management minigame like Ember's rework. I like that you like it and have found the good in her changes, but she's not Mesa. So I'll bring Mesa. Which is why the Devs turn around and nerf the Mesa's of the world. To find true balance, Ember needs to regain her niche. She can do things kinda well that other frames can excel at and when you need to jump through all types of hoops and wait for unvaultings to get everything- you'll prioritize what you can currently get. I'm skillfully completing the task of using my warframe ability? Sounds like a prototype warframe. 

[(XBOX)DarknessZeref]

47 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

it will likely break Slash exploitation

I def exploit slash, not even gonna lie to ya

 

48 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

One need look no fruther than the Wolf of Saturn Six and the many iterations that went through as DE tried to find a middle ground between the min/maxers, the regular players and the newbies with MK1 gear, and they couldn't find one. AT BEST Wolf was a bag of Hit Points, and whether you liked or disliked him largely came down to whether or not you could out-DPS him.

And on this note, I killed the Wolf 100 times in a day because I happened to have had a particular build allowing me to kill him and extract sometimes in as little as 40s. I concede to the truth of your points. Everything with armor gets the corrosive slash viral treatment and it doesn't deviate at all almost. Rather than curtail that though, couldn't they just make more enemies weak to magnetic or blast? It doesn't make things harder, it makes build focus more intensive. The conversation just gets more complicated from there- really from the business perspective I can't imagine they'll take the year it's gonna take to unravel all of that and majorly disrupt the playerbase in the process, but you have convinced me that it may be worth the headache in the longrun. I hope you can see the value in rocking with what's been working, the new guys can get acclimated more smoothly and the veterans can expect these traditional routes to become ineffective for "endgame" content...whenever that comes out. Consistency is good for a game with almost no tutorials.