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battle avionics are a urban myth?

SpawnTDK

By SpawnTDK,
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SpawnTDK

SpawnTDK

Posted
Posted

hey,

 

so i'm into railjack, spendend uncounted hours, intrinsics at 6776, upgraded the grid to 3 dots (excluding 2 only at 2) and ofc finished rj all missions, and yet have to find a single battle avionic.

 

i know that some things are rare, but this is mad. dafaq de. 💀

 

 

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schilds

schilds

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Posted (edited)

Rng is set up to create winners and losers. While its behaviour may be hard to predict when talking about individuals, it's predictable over an entire population..

 

Let's say you're looking for a 0.2% drop from an enemy of which you can find 20 in a mission.

Here is what the distribution of drops over a population of players will look like, given 100 missions:

rx5zY59.png

This says that we can expect (roughly) that:

  • 2% of players will get 0 drops.
  • 7% of players will get 1 drop.
  • 15% of players will get 2 drops.
  • 20% of players will get 3 drops.
  • 20% of players will get 4 drops.
  • 15% of players will get 5 drops
  • 10% of players will get 6 drops
  • and so on

The devs know this. It's a deliberately created differential between the lucky and unlucky that is used to drive trading, or keep you grinding to even out the chances :-P.

 

Here is what the distribution looks like after 100 missions for an 0.2% drop when you can only find 2 of an enemy in a mission:

29P0R4n.png

 

Btw, the first image is for something like Zekti Bulkhead (drops from cutters, you can easily find lots of them). The second image is for something like Zekti Hull Weave (only drops from outriders, you get maybe 2 a mission). I didn't use exact numbers, take the above graphs with a grain of salt, things are probably worse than illustrated by those graphs :-P.

 

Basically it's entirely predictable that someone, somewhere, in this case you, is getting 0 battle avionics :-P. You probably have other rare drops though?

Edited by schilds
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(XBOX)Demon Intellect

(XBOX)Demon Intellect

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53 minutes ago, schilds said:

Rng is set up to create winners and losers. While its behaviour may be hard to predict when talking about individuals, it's predictable over an entire population..

 

Let's say you're looking for a 0.2% drop from an enemy of which you can find 20 in a mission.

Here is what the distribution of drops over a population of players will look like, given 100 missions:

rx5zY59.png

This says that we can expect (roughly) that:

  • 2% of players will get 0 drops.
  • 7% of players will get 1 drop.
  • 15% of players will get 2 drops.
  • 20% of players will get 3 drops.
  • 20% of players will get 4 drops.
  • 15% of players will get 5 drops
  • 10% of players will get 6 drops
  • and so on

The devs know this. It's a deliberately created differential between the lucky and unlucky that is used to drive trading, or keep you grinding to even out the chances :-P.

 

Here is what the distribution looks like after 100 missions for an 0.2% drop when you can only find 2 of an enemy in a mission:

29P0R4n.png

 

Btw, the first image is for something like Zekti Bulkhead (drops from cutters, you can easily find lots of them). The second image is for something like Zekti Hull Weave (only drops from outriders, you get maybe 2 a mission). I didn't use exact numbers, take the above graphs with a grain of salt, things are probably worse than illustrated by those graphs :-P.

 

Basically it's entirely predictable that someone, somewhere, in this case you, is getting 0 battle avionics :-P. You probably have other rare drops though?

Kinda makes it sound pay to win since zekti hull can be bought in the zekti starter pack...

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(PSN)Eluminary

(PSN)Eluminary

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I got the battle avionics pretty easily but I could never get the good bulkhead to drop I farmed tons and tons of Earth missions...but the first day trading started on PC the instant I opened the trading tab someone wanted to trade the zekti bulkhead for a particle ram I had five of those so that worked out quite nicely.

 

I have them all but I don't even use the battle avionics I only have a plus 50 reactor right now that's just enough to make a tanky fast ship with good guns which I prefer that over having some of those battle avionics

Edited by (PS4)Eluminary
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enemystand

enemystand

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I accidentally got mine when farming the bulkhead from zetki, at one moment i had 2 particle ram, 8 seeker volley and 0 bulkhead from zetki, when i finally got the bulkhead i noticed i also got a tether.
be sure to check any of the 3 slots maybe you got one and didn't noticed, the 1st slot is for battle avionic with 25 flux energy cost, the 2nd is for the ones with 50 flux energy cost, and the 3rd is for the ones with 100 energy cost.

Edited by enemystand
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(XBOX)Demon Intellect

(XBOX)Demon Intellect

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56 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Don't. He does his nickname justice.

You mean username? Clearly you are just upset because DE is starting to toe the water of pay to win. By offering zekti hull weave they are encouraging people to buy it by offering it in the starter pack while making it so there is little selling market due to it having to remain under 65 plat because then the pack would be cheaper.

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Kaotyke

Kaotyke

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57 minutes ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

You mean username? Clearly you are just upset because DE is starting to toe the water of pay to win. By offering zekti hull weave they are encouraging people to buy it by offering it in the starter pack while making it so there is little selling market due to it having to remain under 65 plat because then the pack would be cheaper.

@Askorti See what I mean?

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Flameduel

Flameduel

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Posted
2 hours ago, 80think08 said:

How many times do we have to tell you old man: It is pay to skip.

 

To be fair, the pack is like $2-4 (even less if we include discounts) to get, it is about the price of skipping the wait time for some warframes so it is basically a time skip. Also it is low enough to *reasonably* get through trading, unlike the 900 plat bundles

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The_Mustachio

The_Mustachio

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3 hours ago, schilds said:

Btw, the first image is for something like Zekti Bulkhead (drops from cutters, you can easily find lots of them). The second image is for something like Zekti Hull Weave (only drops from outriders, you get maybe 2 a mission). I didn't use exact numbers, take the above graphs with a grain of salt, things are probably worse than illustrated by those graphs :-P.

I got Weave on day 1, and Bulkhead on day 5 (both Zekti). Perfect example of RNG doing its best. Some people just have a hard time wrapping their head around this concept, I guess. 

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lukasystem

lukasystem

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Posted (edited)

Dunno if someone stated this before but:

I upgraded my battle avionics slots, first one two times, and the others just once, and i noticed that when i tried see if i got any battle avionics for equip in my first slot, there was nothing so i was like "damn i'm so unlucky right now", then i just thought of looking at the other two slots, and then it just happened to be TWO battle avionics available for equipment.

I suspect you can't equip a certain avionic if the slot is "over-upgraded" which sounds really stupid to me, but i just thought that maybe it could be the issue of many people "not getting any battle avionics" but actually just can't equip on first slot if you upgraded it. On another note, when equipped one battle mod, the other one disappeared and was only available to equip at the same slot, so i can't have those two battle avionics at the same time, again, really hate that.

Edited by lukasystem
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Rejutka_Lupex

Rejutka_Lupex

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5 hours ago, SpawnTDK said:

so i'm into railjack, spendend uncounted hours, intrinsics at 6776, upgraded the grid to 3 dots (excluding 2 only at 2) and ofc finished rj all missions, and yet have to find a single battle avionic

 

 

This is goind to sound stupid, but maybe you were looking at the wrong spot - apparently the three battle avionic slots aren't identical.

When I click on the leftmost, I get an empty window. But when I clock on the rightmost, I find I already possess a battle avionic (Seeker Missile, I think).

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schilds

schilds

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Rejutka_Lupex said:

This is goind to sound stupid, but maybe you were looking at the wrong spot - apparently the three battle avionic slots aren't identical.

When I click on the leftmost, I get an empty window. But when I clock on the rightmost, I find I already possess a battle avionic (Seeker Missile, I think).

Nah, it's not stupid, I didn't realise I had one for the longest time because I was checking by clicking on the first slot. There's no explanation anywhere that battle avionics are grouped into 3 different sets of abilities. Just another thing you have to stumble across yourself :-P.

Edited by schilds
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schilds

schilds

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7 hours ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

Kinda makes it sound pay to win since zekti hull can be bought in the zekti starter pack...

Putting aside an argument over needs vs wants: Random drops sit as a continuum between just playing, and pay to win. At one end (no rng) you figure out where what you want is, you go play that bit of the game, and you get it. At the other end, chances are so low that a significant number of people will not get what they want within a reasonable amount of time. Somewhere in the middle you could argue that its pay to skip. Rng disconnects reward from effort/skill to some extent.

The devs know this. Rng gives the impression that nobody has any control. That's true when talking about individuals, but when it comes to a whole population the devs can change the parameters to choose the expected distribution of loot. DE appear to be pushing to see how far they can take things before the sentiment becomes "this feels like p2w". Rng gives devs a knob which lets them gradually adjust where on a continuum (of time/effort vs luck) their game sits.

I think there is a reasonable argument that a small amount of rng helps keeps things fresh, can help pace players through content, and is something that some players enjoy. So I'm not saying it shouldn't be there at all.

Edited by schilds
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SpawnTDK

SpawnTDK

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Am 21.12.2019 um 13:15 schrieb schilds:

snip

all statistics aside, at mr 27  i know that rng can hit hard at times, but this has been bejond sanity.

best example: two days ago is posted this thread and soon afterwards i got 3 seeker volles, all in a time span from around 24 hours. ofc this mod is trash bejond mid saturn.

with all of this skirmish stuff you can't even try to farm the new weapon blueprints, excluding you are goin full a**hole, and joining a mission, kill the captain (ignore everything else) and insta leave when nothing drops, leaving possible noobs with the aftermath.

 

rj has a way to much rng, not even a certain mission can be farmed without the need that a certain thing or person spawns and then even drops the thing you need.
also you have to find drops after the battle, in the "endless space" :facepalm:

with all those bugs i'm not even sure if the derelict hack even works, i've never seen anything special in the drops. also: do i really need to stay with the host until he hit's the dojo for the derelict drop? (assuming that it even works)

Edited by SpawnTDK
typos
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