Reliquary of useless abilities

[(PSN)Jacobivan]

7 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

1. Rhino has Rhino Stomp to create breathing room, Yeah, Inaros has a great augment for his 4. What of it? Nezha has status immunity with awarding halo.

Chroma just needs strength and duration, Gauss just needs duration, Zephyr just needs duration, Mesa needs atleast intensify and duration, Gara strength and duration, Baruuk strength, Grendel armor, Hildryn shields and Adaptation, Nidus just needs armor but massively benefits from an Umbral build, Wukong duration. These are just general build requirements. There’s a little variety in there but nothing too crazy. To say they need very specific builds is a stretch.

I’ve done a 2 hour arbi survival with Gauss. I was fine.

2. I just tested a 294% strength (because he literally benefits from only that stat) Danse Macabre on 8 level 130 corrupted heavy gunners. And it performed fairly well. It could probably go up until maybe 160 before you start seeing crippling falloff. So exactly at what point do I stop using Danse Macabre in favor of his other abilities? Because they’re still coming off as completely redundant to me.

3. I use Acceltra frequently. And the only times it has killed me was when the game bugged out and made the bullets explode on collision despite not traveling 7m, and when I was first getting used to Gauss as his movement speed exceeds the Acceltras travel time...fun times. I still see no reason as to why I should subject myself to playing Revenant just to use a specific type of weapon.

4. We are literally getting the Tau system which is a sentient controlled region of space.

5. They literally defined how all his powers were vampire related in his reveal stream. His 1 is representative of how vampires will turn people into their Thralls and make them do their bidding. Mesmer Skin represents how vampires would use hypnosis on their victims. The majority of sentient have insane damage reduction because they progressively adapt to your damage types, they don’t have invinciblity charges. Reave represented how Vampires could turn into a cloud of mist. But people didn’t like that Reave was a flat wall of smoke (you can still see it in Reaves video in the abilities screen), so they replaced it with a Vomby dash while still keeping all the vampire related mechanics like stealing health attached to it. So it is still very much a vampire ability. And his original 4 was a massive AOE sleep because Vampires could also put people to sleep. This was replaced with Danse Macabre because As Rebecca tweeted after the stream
“The stream was @sj_sinclair's first time seeing the powers in action and is definitely wanting more 'Eidolon' flavour so things will likely change a lot (as stated in original tweet). Codenames internally are 'revenant' + ' Vlad'”
When the Creative Director of the game tells you that your “Eidolon frame” isn’t Eidolon-y enough, that’s an issue. But we got Danse Macabre out of it which Revenants only properly Eidolon/sentient themed ability. It has laser and it has an offensive version of the sentient damage adaptation.

And don’t patronize me saying that “Maybe we just haven’t met sentients that can do what Rev does”. It would be incredibly scummy of DE to just cover up this issue by changing Sentients to justify a poor decision in a Warframes design instead of just fixing the frame.

Firstly, let me thank you for this thread hijacking conversation, i enjoy it very much:-) Seriously. 

1. Revenant CAN recast Mesmer Skin anytime, needs Rolling Guard to remain unkillable while doing so. Rhino needs augment to recast, no total safety while doing so. Even if you mod for range for Stomp, gimping your kit in the process. Other frames need survivability mods. And arcanes. Inaros in particular. Nezha is one of my most played frames, but i still sometimes get oneshotted through halo with full Umbral build with Adaptation. My point is, one mod for constant IDDQD mode is not a big investment. Most of the frames you mentioned are tanky, but in addition to mods you mentioned required at least Vitality to be viable. Rev does not. Not health, armor or shields, no Adaptation. With EHP of infinity times number of skins.  Gauss is realy fine and fun to play, but... You didn't play that Arbitration vs infested, by any chance? 🙂 Hildryn has the same problem with poison, plus possible slash procs.Both need health to survive single proc. Zephyr and Mesa sux vs melee, also no recasting (not sure about that one) 

2. Dance Macabre is awesome, i agree. Room cleaner extraordinaire:-) Won't kill enemies above or below you, though. And you cant realy keep it up for whole mission. BTW, ive never tried it without Mesmer Skin active. I know it redirects damage received, but do i still take that damage? Can Rev be killed while disco dancing? Would check myself, but im not sure if i will have time to play before weekend. 

3. Most of self harm weapons are much less forgiving then Acceltra. Ive killed myself with lenz, ogris, tonkor, zhuge prime, penta, castanas and probably couple other. I have most weapons in the game, use random equipment a lot to avoid boredom. And I mostly play with my gf, we both prefer companions to sentinels. Cont count how many times one of our doggies decided to cuddle me just as i shot a rocket;-) Waiting to revive sux. 

4. True. But i dont realy like the idea of magical sentient dimension accessible from Poe. Why would they need a fleet to invade if they had that? I read all Rev lore again, seems like an Ostron legend/fable to me. My headcannon still stays strong:-) 

5. I don't really take DE streamers words for granted. In my head Rev was a wraith frame (no connection to Wraith weapons, just kind of undead). Now, after writing my take on lore, they are sentient/warframe fusion known collectively as Revenant. Thank you for this. I wouldn't even think about it, and now everything fits much better in my mind. 

I apologise if you felt patronized. (not sure if thats a correct sentence, English is not my first language) It was never my intention. I hope DE makes another Eidelon frame, one that will suit your tastes:-) 

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

That’s a case for why he shouldn’t be vampire themed. Because you just admitted there’s no vampires and nothing like vampires in Warframe. So why should this Warframe who’s lore is directly tied to Eidolons, giants hulking sentient units, have vampire powers?

The argument that he had vampire powers doesn’t make any sense. There was no reference to what his powers were before being corrupted. The only thing we have to go off of is the title he had “Warden”. So the idea that he always had vampire powers is pure speculation without any facts to back it up.

There are several things that dont exsist in WF that frames are themed around based on Orokin obsessions, desires and vanity. So Revs base frame is based on revenants while his aestethics are influenced/changed by his time on the plains. There is zero lore connections that would explain that he'd suddenly possess sentient powers. So his base powers are his final powers, only with slightly different visuals. The Orokin would never build an eidolon or sentient frame, mostly because eidolons werent a thing and secondly because they've already experienced what happens when you mess with sentients.

The "warden" is a title made up by the people of cetus, it has zero connection to his creation since they arent Orokin. Much like how Inaros was seen as a god.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

17 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

There are several things that dont exsist in WF that frames are themed around based on Orokin obsessions, desires and vanity. So Revs base frame is based on revenants while his aestethics are influenced/changed by his time on the plains. There is zero lore connections that would explain that he'd suddenly possess sentient powers. So his base powers are his final powers, only with slightly different visuals. The Orokin would never build an eidolon or sentient frame, mostly because eidolons werent a thing and secondly because they've already experienced what happens when you mess with sentients.

The "warden" is a title made up by the people of cetus, it has zero connection to his creation since they arent Orokin. Much like how Inaros was seen as a god.

If there is zero evidence of a frame being able to possess sentient abilities why does Danse Macabre exist?

There’s still no connection to a vampire like theme. Just because he’s considered undead doesn’t automatically make him a vampire. Inaros is technically undead but he’s very clearly not a vampire. He’s a mummy. And before you say it. The reason Inaros still has the same powers is because he didn’t have a separate influence introduced into his being and altered him. He more or less just broke down.

[(PSN)grayscale358]

45 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

If there is zero evidence of a frame being able to possess sentient abilities why does Danse Macabre exist?.

Maybe Danse Macabre was an ability inbuilt into the ORIGINAL (Pre-Eidolon corruption) frame?

You are forgetting that Revenant was CORRUPTED by the Eidolon energies, not based on Eidolons, which prior to the events at Cetus, did not exist.

Seriously Gears, you want a frame with Sentient esque damage resistance, put Adaption onto a frame. Seriously.

Revenants Reave can two or three shot any enemy that isn't immune to his abilities. Here's a quick guide on how to play Rev for you, Mesmer skin, enemy shoots you, use your free cast of Enthrall, repeat till capped and if you take any damage, Reave through your Thralls.I treat Danse Macabe as a panic button, a clear for being surrounded.

Admittedly, the Thralls and teammates don't mix, however I don't see you complaining about other frames that don't function well with teammates. See Harrow, a support frame who needs to fight his team, if they're uncoordinated, to give buffs.To counteract this however, Enthrall a heavy, Reave them, and suddenly, you'll be at max health, have dead heavy and likely some overshields, as well as any lost Mesmer charges

All in all, just because you don't enjoy something, don't go complain about it and argue the point with others who do. Your original point of "His abilities are useless" obviously isn't true, you just enjoy spitting vitriolic hate about this Warframe. Clearly, Revenants abilities have their uses, and just because you don't enjoy them, doesn't mean they're useless.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Maybe Danse Macabre was an ability inbuilt into the ORIGINAL (Pre-Eidolon corruption) frame?

You are forgetting that Revenant was CORRUPTED by the Eidolon energies, not based on Eidolons, which prior to the events at Cetus, did not exist.

Seriously Gears, you want a frame with Sentient esque damage resistance, put Adaption onto a frame. Seriously.

Revenants Reave can two or three shot any enemy that isn't immune to his abilities. Here's a quick guide on how to play Rev for you, Mesmer skin, enemy shoots you, use your free cast of Enthrall, repeat till capped and if you take any damage, Reave through your Thralls.I treat Danse Macabe as a panic button, a clear for being surrounded.

Admittedly, the Thralls and teammates don't mix, however I don't see you complaining about other frames that don't function well with teammates. See Harrow, a support frame who needs to fight his team, if they're uncoordinated, to give buffs.To counteract this however, Enthrall a heavy, Reave them, and suddenly, you'll be at max health, have dead heavy and likely some overshields, as well as any lost Mesmer charges

All in all, just because you don't enjoy something, don't go complain about it and argue the point with others who do. Your original point of "His abilities are useless" obviously isn't true, you just enjoy spitting vitriolic hate about this Warframe. Clearly, Revenants abilities have their uses, and just because you don't enjoy them, doesn't mean they're useless.

Eidolons are Sentients with lasers, and sentient also have damage adaptation. Danse Macabre is a series of lasers with an offensive version of the sentient damage adaptation. It was also literally added to Revenants kit at the request of Steve to make the frame more Eidolon like.

Why wouldn’t a frame that gets corrupted by a specific faction also obtain their attributes? Like it was enough to alter his appearance, why not his abilities too?

Revenant shouldn’t need a mod to become more Eidolon/sentient like. He should just be an Eidolon/Sentient themed Warframe from the start.

Thralls die to squadmates faster than you can Reave through them. Ultimately making that mechanic completely useless.

I have never struggled with Harrow while in a team outside of trying to use his 4. I’m capable of getting kills with him to both heal and give energy to my squadmates. Also, IDK why I should have to criticize other frames to criticize Revenant. The focus is Revenant, not the other frames. Also Reaving 1 thrall gives 1 Mesmer charge, it doesn’t completely replenish all your lost Mesmer charges.

I don’t find Revenant bad because I hate him. I hate him because he is bad. And I am well within my right to criticize this frame. Do you think I wanted to hate Revenant? Of course not. But DE let somebody completely unqualified come in a push his design in a direction it had no business going, and he was worse off for it. If you want me to stop being so critical of Revenant, start pushing for his rework.

 

 

[CaptainMinty]

This thread got derailed fast. Revenant kinda took this thread over.

Back to topic, I'm gonna get crucified for this, but Excal's first. Hear me out. It's best feature is locking onto a target or targets. Slight amounts of mobility. And while the augment makes it somewhat useful, an ability shouldn't need an augment to be worthwhile. At it's core, it should be good without the augment. The way I see it, it's just a gimmick ability. But it does fit in theme and a few quality of life changes would make it a lot better. Speed it up for one. Locks onto a target, and just flings excal at them at mach 5 to cut them in half.give it a combo counter so that repeated casts gain damage. It's just too slow to be really useful.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

If there is zero evidence of a frame being able to possess sentient abilities why does Danse Macabre exist?

There’s still no connection to a vampire like theme. Just because he’s considered undead doesn’t automatically make him a vampire. Inaros is technically undead but he’s very clearly not a vampire. He’s a mummy. And before you say it. The reason Inaros still has the same powers is because he didn’t have a separate influence introduced into his being and altered him. He more or less just broke down.

Danse was there in the core form i.e the original frame. The visual aspect has just been mimiced from sentients, possibly due to the frame going slightly haywire without a tenno to control it. Something on the plans made both Rev and Eidolons go into automated zombie mode, with basic behavior. The Eidolons dont even know their purpose, they just roam the plains during night and go back to the lakes at daybreak. Likely the same deal with Rev, out being the warden due to some root programming since he senses the sentients and other threats on the plains.

And no, it isnt that he is "undead" that makes him a "vampire" it is because he was designed with that theme as a frame. Him being "undead" is what makes him eidolon themed, because eidolon, just as revenant refers to specters and other forms of undead. And no, Inaros is neither undead nor a mummy, he is however mummy themed, but in the end he is just a warframe as per design by the Orokin. There also was no altering energy for Revenant, he simply got powered up by something that brought him back to "life". Just as with the eidolons, they didnt magically get anything extra that wasnt there before. They did lose the intellect of the original sentient that they were part of and are now just mindless massive zombie robot ents.

[SneakyErvin]

13 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Eidolons are Sentients with lasers, and sentient also have damage adaptation. Danse Macabre is a series of lasers with an offensive version of the sentient damage adaptation.

Except that such a thing would make it a non-sentient skill since their thing is adaptive defense. So one would more assume that Rev is the "eidolon hunter" which he also has been refered to just for the fact that he can adapt offensively to get around sentient adaptation. Although it doesnt work in the game since it is based on the health type of the enemies. It still makes it the most logical thing since frames were specifically designed to combat the sentients and their well know adaptation defenses.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Except that such a thing would make it a non-sentient skill since their thing is adaptive defense. So one would more assume that Rev is the "eidolon hunter" which he also has been refered to just for the fact that he can adapt offensively to get around sentient adaptation. Although it doesnt work in the game since it is based on the health type of the enemies. It still makes it the most logical thing since frames were specifically designed to combat the sentients and their well know adaptation defenses.

Ok so explain to me how he was a vampire prior to the Eidolon corruption, but also had laser abilities. Because vampires don’t have lasers.

You’re contradicting yourself own claims now buddy.

Edited January 29, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Jacobivan said:

Firstly, let me thank you for this thread hijacking conversation, i enjoy it very much:-) Seriously. 

1. Revenant CAN recast Mesmer Skin anytime, needs Rolling Guard to remain unkillable while doing so. Rhino needs augment to recast, no total safety while doing so. Even if you mod for range for Stomp, gimping your kit in the process. Other frames need survivability mods. And arcanes. Inaros in particular. Nezha is one of my most played frames, but i still sometimes get oneshotted through halo with full Umbral build with Adaptation. My point is, one mod for constant IDDQD mode is not a big investment. Most of the frames you mentioned are tanky, but in addition to mods you mentioned required at least Vitality to be viable. Rev does not. Not health, armor or shields, no Adaptation. With EHP of infinity times number of skins.  Gauss is realy fine and fun to play, but... You didn't play that Arbitration vs infested, by any chance? 🙂 Hildryn has the same problem with poison, plus possible slash procs.Both need health to survive single proc. Zephyr and Mesa sux vs melee, also no recasting (not sure about that one) 

2. Dance Macabre is awesome, i agree. Room cleaner extraordinaire:-) Won't kill enemies above or below you, though. And you cant realy keep it up for whole mission. BTW, ive never tried it without Mesmer Skin active. I know it redirects damage received, but do i still take that damage? Can Rev be killed while disco dancing? Would check myself, but im not sure if i will have time to play before weekend. 

3. Most of self harm weapons are much less forgiving then Acceltra. Ive killed myself with lenz, ogris, tonkor, zhuge prime, penta, castanas and probably couple other. I have most weapons in the game, use random equipment a lot to avoid boredom. And I mostly play with my gf, we both prefer companions to sentinels. Cont count how many times one of our doggies decided to cuddle me just as i shot a rocket;-) Waiting to revive sux. 

4. True. But i dont realy like the idea of magical sentient dimension accessible from Poe. Why would they need a fleet to invade if they had that? I read all Rev lore again, seems like an Ostron legend/fable to me. My headcannon still stays strong:-) 

5. I don't really take DE streamers words for granted. In my head Rev was a wraith frame (no connection to Wraith weapons, just kind of undead). Now, after writing my take on lore, they are sentient/warframe fusion known collectively as Revenant. Thank you for this. I wouldn't even think about it, and now everything fits much better in my mind. 

I apologise if you felt patronized. (not sure if thats a correct sentence, English is not my first language) It was never my intention. I hope DE makes another Eidelon frame, one that will suit your tastes:-) 

No problem.

1. Ok so why is needing Rolling Guard better than needing Vitality (a significantly easier mod to obtain)? And why is needing Vitality suddenly a bad thing? Every tank ability has some negative to it that balances it. But Mesmer Skin fails because the charges mechanic is a far greater con than the 100% DR is a pro.

I don’t play much Rhino, but I’ve found stretch to give more than enough range to benefit Rhino without neutering his other abilities.

Inaros benefits greatly from arcanes, so what? It’s not like he needs them to make up for the lack of basic QOL the way Revenant needs rolling guard.

You’re just a bad Nezha.

I was playing Gauss against infested.

Hildryn has problems. But she can nullify Status effects when she has overshields and her 2 removes Status procs.

Mesa passively stuns nearby enemies with her 2.

Zephyr May suck against melee units but she’s also supposed to be in the air the majority of the time.

 

2. Reave can’t kill enemies above or below you either. Revenant will most likely die without Mesmer skin active against higher levels, wouldn’t know I tested Danse with invincibility on. But you shouldn’t be having your tank ability and damage ability conflicting with each other.

3. Using Zhuge Prime was your own mistake. As for the others. I still see no reason to subject myself to playing Revenant to use these weapons.

4. Just because you don’t like the way Eidolons enter and exit the plains doesn’t stop it forming being canon. And that “Ostron Folklore” is in the game and your fan fic is not. Also it’s not folklore if it actually happened.

5. Well according to whats-his-face Eidolon is some forgein word for ghost. And then they went into a whole tangent of technicalities to try and make ghosts into vampires. We haven’t really brought up the fact that the Eidolons include terry, Garry, Harry and the Vombulysts as they are their own subfaction of the Sentients. So technically Eidolons are kind of empty shells or “ghosts” of their former selves. But none of that justifies vampire powers.

Yeah, I’m hoping for him to be properly Eidolon/Sentient themed one day too.

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(PSN)Jacobivan]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

No problem.

1. Ok so why is needing Rolling Guard better than needing Vitality (an significantly easier mod to obtain)? And why is needing Vitality suddenly a bad thing? Every tank ability has some negative to it that balances it. But Mesmer Skin fails because the charges mechanic is a far greater con than the 100% DR is a pro.

I don’t play much Rhino, but I’ve found stretch to give more than enough range to benefit Rhino without neutering his other abilities.

Inaros benefits greatly from arcanes, so what? It’s not like he needs them to make up for the lack of basic QOL the way Revenant needs rolling guard.

You’re just a bad Nezha.

I was playing Gauss against infested.

Hildryn has problems. But she can nullify Status effects when she has overshields and her 2 removes Status procs.

Mesa passively stuns nearby enemies with her 2.

Zephyr May suck against melee units but she’s also supposed to be in the air the majority of the time.

 

2. Reave can’t kill enemies above or below you either. Revenant will most likely die without Mesmer skin active against higher levels, wouldn’t know I tested Danse with invincibility on. But you shouldn’t be having your tank ability and damage ability conflicting with each other.

3. Using Zhuge Prime was your own mistake. As for the others. I still see no reason to subject myself to playing Revenant to use these weapons.

4. Just because you don’t like the way Eidolons enter and exit the plains doesn’t stop it forming being canon. And that “Ostron Folklore” is in the game and your fan fic is not. Also it’s not folklore if it actually happened.

5. Well according to whats-his-face Eidolon is some forgein word for ghost. And then they went into a whole tangent of technicalities to try and make ghosts into vampires. We haven’t really brought up the fact that the Eidolons include terry, Garry, Harry and the Vombulysts as they are their own subfaction of the Sentients. So technically Eidolons are kind of empty shells or “ghosts” of their former selves. But none of that justifies vampire powers.

Yeah, I’m hoping for him to be properly Eidolon/Sentient themed one day too.

 

1. Because its just one mod slot, while other frames need multiple to be somewhat tanky. And charges mechanics means that when i enter room with less than 15 ranged enemies (my basic build has ~15.5 charges) theres zero chance of me dying, even if they all instantly shot me at the same time. At enemy level 350:-) They would all be stunned, i would enthrall one or two most annoying ones and safely recast. To illustrate my point: Today i was hunting murmurs with my gf, i took Rev for a spin. I thought maybe i was mistaken, forgoten something and he realy needs to recast every couple seconds. But nope. Extermination and sabotages i finished on single cast, on hijack i had to recast 2 times- while i was standing immobile on the rover for all the way. (she played Grendell, 50 shields ftw;-)) BTW... Mesmer Skin stuns thralls and liches too. And... Not sure if that was a bug, but i survived backbreaker attack when i guessed wrong on parazon lottery. Lich left, no level increase, mod scratched out. 

2. Tested, you get damage while disco dancing, single shots seem to still add dmg even though negated by Mesmer Skin. Also, Danse does next to nothing to Noxes and most grineer on lvl5 lich missions. 

3. I like regular Zhuge, first riven i ever got:-) Had to try. 

4. Still works, just substitute 'Eidelon limbo' for 'somewhere on the plains'. 😉

5. Thx for clarification, i understand what youre getting at a little better.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

Zephyr

 

(im slightly kidding)

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Ok so explain to me how he was a vampire prior to the Eidolon corruption, but also had laser abilities. Because vampires don’t have lasers.

You’re contradicting yourself own claims now buddy.

You just have this odd obsession that a frame must have all 4 skills following the same theme to the point. His 4 simply plays on the whole death theme, just as the name of the skill suggests. It is a nod to the grim reaper, which fits on a skill that sweeps the land and takes lives.

You also need to get over your biased hate towards mesmer skin. Just realize that you are horrible at playing Rev. Reading what you wrote just a few posts up shows you clearly dont get the frame at all. He doesnt need rolling guard, it was a suggestion incase you are really bad or just want a QoL to recast at any time. Mesmer Skin is a 24/7 defense ability with very easy upkeep, it far outlasts all timed buffs and it avoids 1HKs as opposed to Iron Skin, Halo and Inaros massive HP. The only thing you ever need to worry about are nullibubbles.

And regarding Hildryn, since the melee changes she is probably the tankiest frame thanks to the buffs to Rakta Dark Dagger, it makes her quite silly OP and she can now regen shields consistantly versus infested aswell. If your shield drops, Rakta will bring you back into OS before the invulnerability runs out unless you are caught at range for some reason. Her 3 helps her get in range aswell as being another layer of possible rad procs to let rakta regen her shields per hit.

[(PSN)PanserKunst]

On 2020-01-25 at 12:57 PM, PookieNumnums said:

Titania's 1 2 and 3

Truer words never spoken.

The existing threads asking for scrapping or consolidating these three abilities are numerous.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Jacobivan said:

1. Because its just one mod slot, while other frames need multiple to be somewhat tanky. And charges mechanics means that when i enter room with less than 15 ranged enemies (my basic build has ~15.5 charges) theres zero chance of me dying, even if they all instantly shot me at the same time. At enemy level 350:-) They would all be stunned, i would enthrall one or two most annoying ones and safely recast. To illustrate my point: Today i was hunting murmurs with my gf, i took Rev for a spin. I thought maybe i was mistaken, forgoten something and he realy needs to recast every couple seconds. But nope. Extermination and sabotages i finished on single cast, on hijack i had to recast 2 times- while i was standing immobile on the rover for all the way. (she played Grendell, 50 shields ftw;-)) BTW... Mesmer Skin stuns thralls and liches too. And... Not sure if that was a bug, but i survived backbreaker attack when i guessed wrong on parazon lottery. Lich left, no level increase, mod scratched out. 

2. Tested, you get damage while disco dancing, single shots seem to still add dmg even though negated by Mesmer Skin. Also, Danse does next to nothing to Noxes and most grineer on lvl5 lich missions. 

3. I like regular Zhuge, first riven i ever got:-) Had to try. 

4. Still works, just substitute 'Eidelon limbo' for 'somewhere on the plains'. 😉

5. Thx for clarification, i understand what youre getting at a little better.

1. Vitality is also just one mod slot. And what exactly is the benefit to fighting level 350 enemies? DE removed the last mission type that rewarded excessively long endurance runs. So there’s no real point to a frame who can technically survive at those levels, but gets outperformed by every other frame. I can’t speak on your experience because you were playing with a Grendel. The frame that can literally delete swarms of enemies with 1 ability cast. So the chance that his presence effected the results of your Mesmer skin is pretty high.

2. There are a lot of amazing damage abilities that can’t kill Nox’s. Nox were pretty much designed that way. And yes, while you still get the damage conversion with Mesmer up, the damage tics down quickly and stunning the enemies that are shooting at you is the last thing you want when you need them to scale up your damage.

3. Fun fact, a friend of mine stopped playing because they primed Zhuge before Attica.

4. Maybe the Eidolon realm is a pocket dimension, who knows.

5. NP.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

You just have this odd obsession that a frame must have all 4 skills following the same theme to the point. His 4 simply plays on the whole death theme, just as the name of the skill suggests. It is a nod to the grim reaper, which fits on a skill that sweeps the land and takes lives.

You also need to get over your biased hate towards mesmer skin. Just realize that you are horrible at playing Rev. Reading what you wrote just a few posts up shows you clearly dont get the frame at all. He doesnt need rolling guard, it was a suggestion incase you are really bad or just want a QoL to recast at any time. Mesmer Skin is a 24/7 defense ability with very easy upkeep, it far outlasts all timed buffs and it avoids 1HKs as opposed to Iron Skin, Halo and Inaros massive HP. The only thing you ever need to worry about are nullibubbles.

And regarding Hildryn, since the melee changes she is probably the tankiest frame thanks to the buffs to Rakta Dark Dagger, it makes her quite silly OP and she can now regen shields consistantly versus infested aswell. If your shield drops, Rakta will bring you back into OS before the invulnerability runs out unless you are caught at range for some reason. Her 3 helps her get in range aswell as being another layer of possible rad procs to let rakta regen her shields per hit.

Why shouldn’t a frame have a consistent theme? That seems incredibly counterproductive to DE trying to make each one feel unique and different if they’re just these mishmash of ideas that can’t really be properly identified. The closest example we have to this happening to another frame is Khora. Who I think was supposed to be a liquid metal themed frame until DE cut Damage 2.5 and had to completely rework her into dominatrix cat lady. So she doesn’t really have a well defined theme and just comes of as kind of generic are forgettable. Every other frame outside of Revenant and Khora has an easily identifiable theme.

Has Mesmer Skin been reworked to be a properly Eidolon/Sentient themed ability that’s actually good and reliable? No? Then I won’t stop hating it. I’m aware that rolling guard technically isn’t mandatory, but when you need a rare, late game mod to give your frame the same basic QoL that better tank frames have innately it’s just pathetic. Mesmer Skin is not a 24/7 tank ability. You can’t stand in the middle of a group of enemies and just never die. They will eventually take all your Mesmer charges. My Nidus can casually tank lvl130 corrupted bombards, and that’s without parasitic link or his passive. Revenant can’t do that. Yeah he stuns the bombards, but they’ll wake back up and peel of another charge and eventually kill him.

Oh cool, so Hildryn’s a better tank than Revenant. Wait that was always a thing. Because you know.....Mesmer Skin is trash.

Also, way to completely ignore the fact that I called you out on saying he’s always had a laser ability despite you constantly saying through this entire argument that Revenant is vampire themed. Vampires don’t shoot lasers.

Also the reason it’s called Danse Macabre is because Rebecca is a fan of the band Ghost and they have a song called “Danse Macabre”. And last I check, the grim reaper isn’t a vampire.

Edited January 30, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

What's with the hate boner for Revenant? The only ablity of his that needs changing is his one as it's useless for a large amount of reasons. But Mesmer skin being bad?? Lmao Revenant is the only frame in the game I have never died with in an actual mission! No not even level 200+ arbitrations could make a dent!

Edited January 30, 2020 by (XB1)Skiller115

[(PSN)grayscale358]

7 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Why shouldn’t a frame have a consistent theme? That seems incredibly counterproductive to DE trying to make each one feel unique and different if they’re just these mishmash of ideas that can’t really be properly identified. The closest example we have to this happening to another frame is Khora. Who I think was supposed to be a liquid metal themed frame until DE cut Damage 2.5 and had to completely rework her into dominatrix cat lady. So she doesn’t really have a well defined theme and just comes of as kind of generic are forgettable. Every other frame outside of Revenant and Khora has an easily identifiable theme.

Has Mesmer Skin been reworked to be a properly Eidolon/Sentient themed ability that’s actually good and reliable? No? Then I won’t stop hating it. I’m aware that rolling guard technically isn’t mandatory, but when you need a rare, late game mod to give your frame the same basic QoL that better tank frames have innately it’s just pathetic. Mesmer Skin is not a 24/7 tank ability. You can’t stand in the middle of a group of enemies and just never die. They will eventually take all your Mesmer charges. My Nidus can casually tank lvl130 corrupted bombards, and that’s without parasitic link or his passive. Revenant can’t do that. Yeah he stuns the bombards, but they’ll wake back up and peel of another charge and eventually kill him.

Oh cool, so Hildryn’s a better tank than Revenant. Wait that was always a thing. Because you know.....Mesmer Skin is trash.

Also, way to completely ignore the fact that I called you out on saying he’s always had a laser ability despite you constantly saying through this entire argument that Revenant is vampire themed. Vampires don’t shoot lasers.

Also the reason it’s called Danse Macabre is because Rebecca is a fan of the band Ghost and they have a song called “Danse Macabre”. And last I check, the grim reaper isn’t a vampire.

Okay, for one, when the bombard is stunned, casually cast his Enthrall for free, and suddenly, the bombard won't shoot you again. You can also recast Mesmer Skin without running out of charges, so Rolling guard or anything like that isn't even mandatory. A Nidus can't stand in the middle of a group of enemies and not die either, it will eventually happen. The only frame that could do that was pre-rework Wukong, who just... didn't. Revenant's ability to tank is based around Mesmer skin, and Enthrall, because you can stun an enemy, gain a free cast of Enthrall, and let the Enthralled enemies take the aggro of all enemies, whilst spreading Enthrall's effects. It's a different type of tanking, that allows for nigh on infinite scaling, since you just, don't take damage.

 

But that's enough of that. If you want a Sentient/Eidolon-themed frame, what are your ideas? Remember to make sure you maintain balance, and don't simply give him infinite lasers, because that would simply make him a boring frame.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Okay, for one, when the bombard is stunned, casually cast his Enthrall for free, and suddenly, the bombard won't shoot you again. You can also recast Mesmer Skin without running out of charges, so Rolling guard or anything like that isn't even mandatory. A Nidus can't stand in the middle of a group of enemies and not die either, it will eventually happen. The only frame that could do that was pre-rework Wukong, who just... didn't. Revenant's ability to tank is based around Mesmer skin, and Enthrall, because you can stun an enemy, gain a free cast of Enthrall, and let the Enthralled enemies take the aggro of all enemies, whilst spreading Enthrall's effects. It's a different type of tanking, that allows for nigh on infinite scaling, since you just, don't take damage.

 

But that's enough of that. If you want a Sentient/Eidolon-themed frame, what are your ideas? Remember to make sure you maintain balance, and don't simply give him infinite lasers, because that would simply make him a boring frame.

But we’re not talking about other abilities. We’re talking about Mesmer Skin. I don’t go around claiming stug is an amazing gun and then when I show it off I’m just using Mesas peacemakers. Recasting Mesmer Skin is a slow af cast time that leaves you vulnerable to get shot. Yeah, Nidus may eventually die, but it would be FAR later than when Revenant dies, I never found old Defy to be that good, too much micromanagement.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

6 hours ago, (XB1)Skiller115 said:

What's with the hate boner for Revenant? The only ablity of his that needs changing is his one as it's useless for a large amount of reasons. But Mesmer skin being bad?? Lmao Revenant is the only frame in the game I have never died with in an actual mission! No not even level 200+ arbitrations could make a dent!

Charges based defense abilities are bad in a game like Warframe. It’s ability to stun enemies actively prevents Danse Macabre from fully taking advantage of its scaling mechanic. It’s mechanic has absolutely nothing in common with Eidolons or Sentients. Enthrall is trash, good on you for noticing.

[kapn655321]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Recasting Mesmer Skin is a slow af cast time that leaves you vulnerable to get shot.

On that note, every single panic button has visual/audio overlap for a few frames where you're still vulnerable.
I cannot tell you how many times I've died casting Blessing, or skills like it.
That whole situation just rattles my onions.
 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Ok fr, who’s the guy just constantly laugh reacting all my posts? Are you even reading what I’m saying? Or are you just like “Gears is dumb and what he said shouldn’t even be considered lol”.

Edited January 30, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(PSN)grayscale358]

20 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

But we’re not talking about other abilities. We’re talking about Mesmer Skin. I don’t go around claiming stug is an amazing gun and then when I show it off I’m just using Mesas peacemakers. Recasting Mesmer Skin is a slow af cast time that leaves you vulnerable to get shot. Yeah, Nidus may eventually die, but it would be FAR later than when Revenant dies, I never found old Defy to be that good, too much micromanagement.

You never answered the second part of that question, what Eidolon style defensive ability would you rather see? And adaptation as an ability is a horrible idea.

And Revenant is a highly synergistic frame currently, with how everything links up (Although nowhere near Nidus). Take Virulence on Nidus for example, if someone was just using Virulence, no Larva, it'd make Nidus seem incredibly weak due to the slower scaling, and likely lackluster energy returns. You need to use Revenants abilities together to get the proper return. Mesmer skin may be garbage on its own, but when combining it with his kit, it because much more viable.

[SneakyErvin]

10 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Why shouldn’t a frame have a consistent theme? That seems incredibly counterproductive to DE trying to make each one feel unique and different if they’re just these mishmash of ideas that can’t really be properly identified. The closest example we have to this happening to another frame is Khora. Who I think was supposed to be a liquid metal themed frame until DE cut Damage 2.5 and had to completely rework her into dominatrix cat lady. So she doesn’t really have a well defined theme and just comes of as kind of generic are forgettable. Every other frame outside of Revenant and Khora has an easily identifiable theme.

Has Mesmer Skin been reworked to be a properly Eidolon/Sentient themed ability that’s actually good and reliable? No? Then I won’t stop hating it. I’m aware that rolling guard technically isn’t mandatory, but when you need a rare, late game mod to give your frame the same basic QoL that better tank frames have innately it’s just pathetic. Mesmer Skin is not a 24/7 tank ability. You can’t stand in the middle of a group of enemies and just never die. They will eventually take all your Mesmer charges. My Nidus can casually tank lvl130 corrupted bombards, and that’s without parasitic link or his passive. Revenant can’t do that. Yeah he stuns the bombards, but they’ll wake back up and peel of another charge and eventually kill him.

Oh cool, so Hildryn’s a better tank than Revenant. Wait that was always a thing. Because you know.....Mesmer Skin is trash.

Also, way to completely ignore the fact that I called you out on saying he’s always had a laser ability despite you constantly saying through this entire argument that Revenant is vampire themed. Vampires don’t shoot lasers.

Also the reason it’s called Danse Macabre is because Rebecca is a fan of the band Ghost and they have a song called “Danse Macabre”. And last I check, the grim reaper isn’t a vampire.

I can give you several frames that completely break their theme when it goes beyond the basic Heat, Cold, Electrical theme. For me Khora is a pretty well balanced frame when it comes to the theme, even though they did have to go back and do changes. She is the dominatrix frame, straight and simple. Whips, chains, bondage and a pet. With a slightly spideresque feel aswell. 

Banshee, Valkyr, Atlas, Mirage, Wisp, Vauban, Nekros, Oberon and Garuda are some frames where the kits cannot be defined with one single theme. 

Banshee. What does the earthquake, sonar and silence have to do with the same theme? 

Valkyr. What exactly is her theme? They obviously intended for her to be based on norse valkyries given one of her skins and that she is softly connected to cats (like Freya). But why did she suddenly become a berserker themed frame with a ripline as if she was Catwoman or Black Cat? Where is the spear?

Atlas. Well, obviously rock based, but why does he has a skill that is centered around boxing and why is he less "strength" focused? And why does he have the ability of a gorgon?

Mirage. Number 1 and 2 fits since they are both illusionairy. But where does the whole light and dark blend into the illusions, deception and trickery? And where did the idea to the disco ball come from?

Wisp. As many pointed before her release, what is the theme? I myself could see the forest folk thing with the motes and the extremely obscure "lantern". But what is her actual theme? Portal frame, forest folk, ghost or something else?

Vauban. There is zero to his namesake theme except for one skill and that is Bastille. He is a high tech enginner and not a siege tactician/enginner. He has more in common with Rocket Raccoon than Vauban.

Nekros. He has one skill to fit the name, his #4. The rest are just uhm... I dunno where they fit into a death theme except for their names and barely even there.

Oberon. Ah yes the palashamdruid theme, clearly spot on across the whole kit. My favorite fantasy class in every game. Lets toss up some grass/leaf patches, shoot some spikes (seriously wtf?) and then do some holy chanting and bring down some holy reckoning. I like Oberon, but his kit is all over the place for a theme.

Garuda. Male "deity" name on a female frame. Looks like a S&M queen, impales enemies like Mr. Tepes, has a "mirror" and can convert life to power like a blood mage. Also has a helmet based on one of the most famous female "vampires" in history. Is it a plane? Is it a bird? Is it a Vampire!? No it's Garuda! But not really. Well atleast she has a theme that is blood(y) hard to understand.

So back to Mesmer Skin and revenant. It is probably one of the most reliable abilities in the game because you have a fixed number and know you are safe until that number is gone. All tank frames need to rely on a QoL mod if they want to avoid a specific thing. Rhino is more risky to rebuff than Rev and Rhino must have atleast one mod dedicated to rebuffing, otherwise he is stuck with low values of Iron Skin. You clearly havent played Rev much if you claim that you cant stand there and take the hits. He can stand there and take the needed hits when clearing out the mobs in the process. And when you see that you need to rebuff, a quick bulletjump cast is all you need to be safe.

She is better if you build her for it properly. You dont need to limit yourself with anything on Rev though since his kit gives him the protection he needs so you can focus fully on whatever else you need. No need for health sustain and other things to keep him going.

As for your obsession with a full kit having to fit a single theme to the point. See my other frame examples that break that bubble. Regarding the name, it could also come from the old painting you know, which is the inspiration to the song by Ghost aswell as the inspiration to the song La Grande Danse Macabre by another swedish metal (black) band called Marduk. And no, the reaper isnt a vampire, the reaper is a wraith, the reaper is a revenant, just as vampires are revenants. Hmm it seems like the theme would indeed be revenants, what an odd shocker given his name.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 hours ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

You never answered the second part of that question, what Eidolon style defensive ability would you rather see? And adaptation as an ability is a horrible idea.

And Revenant is a highly synergistic frame currently, with how everything links up (Although nowhere near Nidus). Take Virulence on Nidus for example, if someone was just using Virulence, no Larva, it'd make Nidus seem incredibly weak due to the slower scaling, and likely lackluster energy returns. You need to use Revenants abilities together to get the proper return. Mesmer skin may be garbage on its own, but when combining it with his kit, it because much more viable.

Eidolons have that shield that goes over their health on the UI instead of being right next to it. Revenant could charge a shield that has the same properties as adaptation, and it could be maintained through some synergy with the vombulysts he should be spawning to regen those shields consistently.

By highly synergistic you mean completely dependent on his synergies (that he can’t access because Thralls die). Because his abilities at their very core are poorly designed and their base mechanics suck. We were talking about general tank ability. Nidus can just stand there and eat hits with them barely effecting him. Comparing passive tankiness to abilities synergizing is kinda dumb.