Reliquary of useless abilities

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Neither ghost, ghoul, nor demons are vampires.

OK if your not going to take my previous posts into account where I explained that before 1897 Ghouls and Vampires were usually the same creature, I think we should just stop talking to each other

I never expected to change your opinion on Revenant, but I hoped to at least explain what the devs were going for

[SneakyErvin]

21 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Because Mesmer Skin only lasts for an average of 15 hits while turbulence can take infinite hits for 45 seconds, same goes for Kinetic Plating.

Number of hits doesnt really matter if you can go several minutes and have active charges. 45 seconds however are only 45 seconds. So for me, who can make the charges last for minutes without trouble will have a far greater benefit from MS. And that's if I dont decide to recast MS when there are no mobs around.

11 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You’re insane head canon isn’t in game cannon. And the Mayans weren’t vampire and neither are the sentient. None of the Eidolons or sentient units display any vampire like abilities. So Revenant becoming a vampire from their energy doesn’t make any sense.

It would be like saying, oh Nidus is the infested frame, so it would make sense if he farted out butterflies because Butterflies and the infested are both organic beings.

All cultures have "vampires". The specific name however comes from slavic regions. Mayans also had vampiric tendencies, like blood offerings, partial cannibalism etc.

Revs vampiric connection is simply that he used the "life force" of the sentient remnants to keep himself "alive". Much like how revenants (the core category of where vampire derive from) use the life force of their victims in one way or another. Revenant very much depicts the concept of the ancient striga myths, the grandfather of modern vampires. An undead creature roaming the graveyards drinking the blood of the dead to keep it sustained. It is where the whole idea comes from regarding vampires turning into morbid beasts (or even die in the process) when they drink or get injected by the blood of the dead.

[SneakyErvin]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Neither ghost, ghoul, nor demons are vampires.

They all are because they are all based in the same ancient myth that predates the name vampire by 1000+ years.

[Midas]

soul punch, Banshee's 1

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

OK if your not going to take my previous posts into account where I explained that before 1897 Ghouls and Vampires were usually the same creature, I think we should just stop talking to each other

I never expected to change your opinion on Revenant, but I hoped to at least explain what the devs were going for

Revenant is a vampire because Rebecca was (for some god forsaken reason) put in charge of his development team, and she loves vampires. So she wanted a vampire frame and completely disregarded the Eidolons aesthetic of his design in pursuit of vamp frame. Not because of a bunch of technicalities in mythologies.

[TARINunit9]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Revenant is a vampire because Rebecca was (for some god forsaken reason) put in charge of his development team, and she loves vampires. So she wanted a vampire frame and completely disregarded the Eidolons aesthetic of his design in pursuit of vamp frame. Not because of a bunch of technicalities in mythologies.

Well from one metatextual theme to another metatextual reason. I'll concede metatextual defeat

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

All cultures have "vampires". The specific name however comes from slavic regions. Mayans also had vampiric tendencies, like blood offerings, partial cannibalism etc.

Revs vampiric connection is simply that he used the "life force" of the sentient remnants to keep himself "alive". Much like how revenants (the core category of where vampire derive from) use the life force of their victims in one way or another. Revenant very much depicts the concept of the ancient striga myths, the grandfather of modern vampires. An undead creature roaming the graveyards drinking the blood of the dead to keep it sustained. It is where the whole idea comes from regarding vampires turning into morbid beasts (or even die in the process) when they drink or get injected by the blood of the dead.

Ok. It where did he get the vampire powers from? Because it wasn’t from the Eidolons, because they’re laser firing behemoths, not blood drinking creatures of the night that Mind Control and turn into bats.

[Midas]

21 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Y’all really need to find a better comeback than “You just don’t know how to play him/you suck”. I literally know more about Revenant now than most of the people who defend him these days.

Mesmer Skin is over rated trash. 100% DR doesn’t matter much when it’s tied to a charges based defense skill that gets shredded through like wet paper towel. And with an average of 15 charges per cast that leaves him taking less hits before having to recast or than literally every other tank frame. Not to mention it actively prevents Danse Macabre from taking full advantage of its scaling mechanic.

Look it’s not my fault his 4 makes his entire kit redundant. Blame DE for that.

You clearly don't know how to play revenant,

You can clear sentient ship so fast and groupings of battalyst level 155+ with enthrall + reave. (1 cast + counter-clockwise spinning)

Reave does total % health damage ^^

Mesmer skin DOES NOT GRANT 100% dr, it grants the reflection of status chances and prevention of death.

Mesmer skin also requires the enemy to hit you while you move around secondly, mesmer skin stuns the opponent.

From a technical perspective I can see where you get this from but from someone who runs Revenant daily and through the hostile mergers event to get 30-40k score caps...

It is extremely useful, especially when you just use magus lockdown to recast safely and pads to sustain.

Enthrall can enthrall frost eximi grant you crowd control.

Please don't be sassy and rude if you don't even know what you are talking about.

For is 4 it is the same, I can wipe level 300 units (tested during operation) very quickly.

I've incorporated weapon damage, crowd control, sustaining mesmer skin with a careful eye in arbys, and finally enthrall for unkillable tank units.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Midas

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

Chroma's 1 and 4

Mesa's 1

Zephyr's 2

Excalibur's 2

Valkyr's 1

Hydroid's whole kit

Grendal's whole kit

Nyx's 1

Gara's 3

The removal and replacement ablity of Ember's acclerant

All ablities of every Archwing except Amesha in Railjack

Revenant's 1

Nekros' 1 Soul punch

Edited January 26, 2020 by (XB1)Skiller115

[Midas]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Skiller115 said:

Chroma's 1 and 4

Mesa's 1

Zephyr's 2

Excalibur's 2

Valkyr's 1

Hydroid's whole kit

Grendal's whole kit

Nyx's 1

Gara's 3

The removal and replacement ablity of Ember's acclerant

All ablities of every Archwing except Amesha in Railjack

Revenant's 1

 

 

 

 

 

I agree Enthrall can be considered useless unless you hit those level 300+ levels.

Although star chart does not contain any of these levels (yet).

Enthrall frost eximi for crowd control for your team and reave synergy is about as useful as it gets.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Midas

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Just now, Midas said:

You clearly don't know how to play revenant,

You can clear sentient ship so fast and groupings of battalyst level 155+ with enthrall + reave.

Reave does total % health damage.

Mesmer skin DOES NOT GRANT 100% dr, it grants the reflection of status chances and prevention of death.

Mesmer skin also requires the enemy to hit you while you move around secondly, mesmer skin stuns the opponent.

From a technical perspective I can see where you get this from but from someone who runs Revenant daily and through the hostile mergers event to get 30-40k score caps...

It is extremely useful, especially when you just use magus lockdown to recast safely and pads to sustain.

Enthrall can enthrall frost eximi grant you crowd control.

Please don't be sassy and rude if you don't even know what you are talking about.

How to play Rev: Stick him in the arsenal and play a different frame.

The % heath drain to one shot enemeis is ultimately completely useless as it is a slow af set up that easily gets outpaced and outperformed by Damage abilities and guns. But if you want to wait 5 hours for those things to start falling off enough in a survival to finally get some use out of the health drain that’s on you.

Mesmer grants 100% DR. You get shot, it consumes a charge, you take no damage. It does not reflect status procs back at the enemies, and if you’re milking yourself with self damage weapons you just need to git gud.

Mesmer Skins stun actively anti-synergizes with Danse Macabre. As Danse has a scaling mechanic that requires enemies to actively be shooting at him, and Mesmer Skin actively prevents that.

How are you playing the Hostile Mergers event? If you mean the disruption game mode there are several far better frames than Revenant.

If you have Magus lockdown why do you think you need Enthrall for CC? Why do you think Enthrall is good CC to begin with? Just cast Danse and kill everything around you. It’s far more effective that enthralling an enemy that’s just going to be shot dead in the next 2 seconds.

Maybe if people stopped treating trash frames like they’re good I’d stop being sassy and rude. But that’s clearly nowhere close to happening so it looks like I’ll be continuing. 

 

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Ok. It where did he get the vampire powers from? Because it wasn’t from the Eidolons, because they’re laser firing behemoths, not blood drinking creatures of the night that Mind Control and turn into bats.

You keep missing that he is a warframe, designed originally by the Orokin. Most of his powers are based in the warframe design made by the Orokin but with certain corruption due to his extremely long time on the plain in his damaged state.

Vampires drinking blood is also a very modern made up part of their lore, so are the bats.

Rev can mind control, mesmerize and turn into vapor aswell as feed on the life force of others. All being key parts of the original creatures that predates vampires by years and years and years in the thousands. It is there in old lore of ghosts from ancient times. They could possess you, make you deadly ill as they fed on you and so on. This goes on and on and applies partially or fully to all creatures that are classed as revenants. It doesnt matter if it is an ancient norse Draugr, a germanic Poltergeist, a brittish Wraith or a slavic Vampire, they all share many traits.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You keep missing that he is a warframe, designed originally by the Orokin. Most of his powers are based in the warframe design made by the Orokin but with certain corruption due to his extremely long time on the plain in his damaged stat

Then what was the point of his backstory being him corrupted by Eidolons energy if there was no intention to make an Eidolon frame? If they wanted to make a vampire frame that’s fine, but if they had not intention of making an Eidolon themed Warframe then they shouldn’t have put vampire powers on a Warframe that looks like a f***ing Eidolon.

Its like saying “Oh here’s Gauss, he’s the fastest thing ever, he runs super fast and does thing super fast and his whole deal is going fast”, but then all his abilities would then have nothing to do with going fast.

Edited January 26, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Midas]

 

5 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

How to play Rev: Stick him in the arsenal and play a different frame.

The % heath drain to one shot enemeis is ultimately completely useless as it is a slow af set up that easily gets outpaced and outperformed by Damage abilities and guns. But if you want to wait 5 hours for those things to start falling off enough in a survival to finally get some use out of the health drain that’s on you.

Mesmer grants 100% DR. You get shot, it consumes a charge, you take no damage. It does not reflect status procs back at the enemies, and if you’re milking yourself with self damage weapons you just need to git gud.

Mesmer Skins stun actively anti-synergizes with Danse Macabre. As Danse has a scaling mechanic that requires enemies to actively be shooting at him, and Mesmer Skin actively prevents that.

How are you playing the Hostile Mergers event? If you mean the disruption game mode there are several far better frames than Revenant.

If you have Magus lockdown why do you think you need Enthrall for CC? Why do you think Enthrall is good CC to begin with? Just cast Danse and kill everything around you. It’s far more effective that enthralling an enemy that’s just going to be shot dead in the next 2 seconds.

Maybe if people stopped treating trash frames like they’re good I’d stop being sassy and rude. But that’s clearly nowhere close to happening so it looks like I’ll be continuing. 

 

1. Health drain is extremely effective against higher end unit gameplay such as New War sentients (Anomaly clearing right now)

2. It does not, it technically is not considered damage reduction just damage negation, I don't use launchers/self harming weapons, not into that stuff.

3. Danse is 100% a S#&$ ability agreed.

4. When I did hostile mergers with him from prior experience, yes you could oberon smite the enemy with a couple other frames for 100k+ scoring.

5. enthrall for other units, in higher levels magus lockdown begins to lose its effect after multiple usages for team play.

6. Your last argument clearly gives away that you hold radical opposition against this frame, I refuse to argue with your bias opinions and lack of usage and evidence, it is clear with more than double the amount of years you have been playing this game (I've been here for them all and run a teaching community), that you are just all talk Tenno.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Midas

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Then what was the point of his backstory being him corrupted by Eidolons energy if the intention was to do absolutely nothing with that? If they wanted to make a vampire frame that’s fine, but if they had not intention of making an Eidolon themed Warframe then they shouldn’t have put vampire powers on a Warframe that looks like a f***ing Eidolon.

He is still eidolon themed. He still has the look of one, he is still a "walking corpse", he still has abilities with eidolon visuals.

You are thinking of a sentient themed frame, which is not the same as an eidolon themed frames. Eidolons are "dead" sentients, or well parts of a dead sentient, they are ghouls, zombies, ghosts, revenants or whatever you wanna call it. Revenant follows that theme just fine because he is an undead, just like them, fuelled by the same energy as them, survived thanks to the same conditions as them etc. He has even mimiced part of their ability aestethics, like the laser show that is his #4.

I'm just glad they didnt go out and say they were doing a Revenant themed frame, cos then we'd have complaints about him not being able to skin bears, get mauled by bears or look like a ragged DiCaprio. Because that is about as far as the width of knowledge about the whole vampire theme thing seems to go on these forums. If it doesnt sparkle, drink blood or make teens wet in their pants it is obviously not vampire themed these days.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

16 minutes ago, Midas said:

 

1. Health drain is extremely effective against higher end unit gameplay such as New War sentients (Anomaly clearing right now)

2. It does not, it technically is not considered damage reduction just damage negation, I don't use launchers/self harming weapons, not into that stuff.

3. Danse is 100% a S#&$ ability agreed.

4. When I did hostile mergers with him from prior experience, yes you could oberon smite the enemy with a couple other frames for 100k+ scoring.

5. enthrall for other units, in higher levels magus lockdown begins to lose its effect after multiple usages for team play.

6. Your last argument clearly gives away that you hold radical opposition against this frame, I refuse to argue with your bias opinions and lack of usage and evidence, it is clear with more than double the amount of years you have been playing this game, that you are just all talk Tenno.

1. The 1 shot mechanic is garbage if it’s outpaced by simple damage abilities. If you want to wait for those abilities and weapons to fall of to finally have a use for Revenant you can. But I don’t know many people who want to wait 5 hours for their frame to be useful in a mission.

2. DR, negation. Same difference.

3. Danse is Revenants best ability. IDK what you’re talking about.

5. Again, having to wait until every other option is no longer viable for your frame to be useful makes that frame garbage.

6. Revenant is trash. And I won’t stop calling him that until he’s reworked to be both good and properly Eidolon themed. I’m not here to say things you like or agree with. I’m here to drop the truth.

Edited January 26, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

8 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

He is still eidolon themed. He still has the look of one, he is still a "walking corpse", he still has abilities with eidolon visuals.

Covering up the vampire powers with Eidolons colors doesn’t suddenly make him all Eidolon themed. His 1-3 are still vampire powers. The only Eidolon themed power he has is Danse Macabre. And that being his best ability and the fact that his backstory literally only leads to the logical conclusion that he should be purely Eidolon themed. The only reasonable thing for DE to do is replace his 1-3 with properly Eidolon/Sentient themed abilities. Because him having a vampire theme because he’s “technically undead” is dumb and makes zero sense in every possible context.

Edited January 26, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[SocialFox]

22 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

If mesmer skin is that great of a tanking ability, why would you need reave to get health back?

Because you can take damage in certain situations, but as long as your mesmer charges are #>0 you cannot die, your health just stays at 2

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 minutes ago, SocialFox said:

Because you can take damage in certain situations, but as long as your mesmer charges are #>0 you cannot die, your health just stays at 2

Ok but why would you need healing in the first place if Mesmer skin is supposed to always be up. It’s his primary defense and doesn’t require health to be maintained. And yet Reaves main use is to heal and requires a synergy to grant back Mesmer charges. Why do I need a synergy set up to maintain my primary defense?

[EmailSoup]

Techtonics (Only use is to meme with the augment to make a tiny wall around things)

Spectral Scream (In concept it's fine but does literally nothing)

Effigy (Dragon frame's "dragon" ability is a bad turret

Radial Javelin (Does literally nothing when Radial Blind exists, although the augment is decent)

Spectrorage (The wall does the job better and she could use a better 3)

Regurgitate (Self explanatory)

Undertow (and by extension all of Hydroid's puddle interactions)

Navigator (Self explanatory)

Venari's protect posture (Comparatively to the other postures)

Ballistic Battery (It's a 1 on one of the best frames in the game, so understandable. Not a real issue)

Soul Punch (It's a 1 on the loot frame so it's understandable why it's bad, not a real issue)

Absorb (The augment makes it slightly more usable)

Reave (Nice for movement, nothing else)

Spellbind (Mainly only used to buff the Razorwing augment)

Lantern (Nice in concept but they float off into the skybox)

Paralysis (It sucks. I honestly am fine with ripline. It could use some smoother movement, but it's a fun little movement tool.)

Minelayer: Vector Pad (For the love of all things please remove this)

Airburst (Only use is to buff the tornado size, which has arguably useful build-up anyway

 

[kapn655321]

Hydroid's Undertow is a stealth and life saving function. If that was not in his kit, he'd be unplayable in high level or spy.

His kit is far different than many others, and he gets a bad wrap. He may be played foolishly, hiding behind a corner casting 4 augmented, or hiding in a puddle..
I'd be fine with them putting limits on the puddle if it would help this misconception or mis-use.. though it's the only way he can stealth and survive in many situations, so how much they can limit that directly affects this success and undermines his kit.

[Veridian]

23 hours ago, xHeretic said:

1 sure, but 2? Warcry is one of her best abilities, the armour gained and slowing down enemies make it prety useful on most situations and works even without eternal war.

Appologies, 3. Her 2 is amazing.

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Covering up the vampire powers with Eidolons colors doesn’t suddenly make him all Eidolon themed. His 1-3 are still vampire powers. The only Eidolon themed power he has is Danse Macabre. And that being his best ability and the fact that his backstory literally only leads to the logical conclusion that he should be purely Eidolon themed. The only reasonable thing for DE to do is replace his 1-3 with properly Eidolon/Sentient themed abilities. Because him having a vampire theme because he’s “technically undead” is dumb and makes zero sense in every possible context.

Complete nonsense and lack of lore connections in your reasoning.

How would the Orokin manage or even want to create an Eidolon based warframe? Eidolons are a specific thing tied to earth and that specific sentient. The Orokin would have no knowledge about that, nor would they want to infuse sentient technology into the thing they want to use to fight the sentients.

He is what he is, a frame infused with eidolon energy, a product of a mix between sentient tech, a frame and some power on earth, likely something tied to the massive bomb Gara used to wipe out that specific sentient that the eidolons spawned from.

In his current iteration Rev can be explained with a Prime since he is only infused/corrupted by the eidolons and his time on earth. That means they can make a prime one day with the same skills but with different animations for them without completely breaking the lore.

Also, he doesnt have a vampire theme because he's undead, he has an eidolon theme because he is undead. The vampire parts, like his 1-3 are by Orokin design. His 4 is also by Orokin design but has take the visual appearance of the eidolon weaponry instead. I wouldnt be surprised if a prime would have a different looking #4. So it wouldnt be far fetched to assume that he has fed on the sentient parts during his time on the plains, he can afterall restore himself through his reave ability. His "vampiric" construction/design is probably what made him "survive" instead of getting oblitirated.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

38 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Complete nonsense and lack of lore connections in your reasoning.

How would the Orokin manage or even want to create an Eidolon based warframe?

The Orokin did not create an Eidolon frame. They created a frame who’s theme doesn’t matter because the important part of their backstory is them being taken and corrupted by Eidolon energy. So it was the Sentients who corrupted a Warframe and turned it into an Eidolon frame. Or atleast it should’ve been an Eidolon frame but Rebecca wanted him to be a vampire frame because apparently a Warframe modeled after a boss is too cool a thing for us to have.

[p_silveira]

6 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

There’s still NOTHING in Revenants backstory that eludes to or references anything relating to vampires

They could, in the future, add that Revenant had a "vampire theme" before being corrupted by the Eidolon into becoming what he is today, and that the vampire abilities are what remains of his "old self". I don't really like the vampire theme either, but if they want, they can put it on his lore very easily. Hope they don't, but still...