Warframe Revised: Infested Damage Megathread

[SilverBones]

Infested Damage:
We did not want to overlook the Infested in our review. Infested are close-range enemies that telegraph most attacks - and now if one of those attacks hits you, it simply does more damage. Stay agile, stay moving, and the mission is as good as won!

Why:
Having Infested simply deal more Damage encourages you to use mobility in ways that is not the norm for their ranged counterparts. Rewarding mobility is a key part of Warframe.

Please remember to leave your feedback in a constructive and civil manner! Remember, this thread is for FEEDBACK ONLY. If you have a bug, please make sure you submit your bug on this thread and follow the new guidelines!

[angrykenji]

please remove or at least look at the hook mechanic ancients (and butchers) use. this has remained unlooked at for years and they are incredibly annoying, instant, aim-bot and will grab you from anywhere and even behind objects. yes, rolling will counter it but you have no notice or reaction in any game mode with effects and dozens of enemies flying around.

Edited March 5, 2020 by angrykenji

[main_antagonist]

1 minute ago, angrykenji said:

please remove or at least look at the hook mechanic ancients (and butchers) use. this has remained unlooked at for years and they are incredibly annoying, instant, aim-bot and will grab you from anywhere and even behind objects. yes, rolling will counter it but you have no notice or reaction in any game mode with effects and dozens of enemies flying around.

Yeah I agree with this 100%
The new equivalent of this problem is when a Nox unit is knocked over they can charge at you while laying down/recovering from knockdown.

[Bambilio]

I was just in a sanctuary run and when we got to an infested room, they would not attack us. They would still run up but would simply hangout around us. More attack damage perhaps, but also 100% more friendly!

[Ketec]

They also hit  hard on everything but the tanky frames.

Toxin ancients often oneshot even tanky ones.

And like half the infested are far from close range - shooting, spitting, extra long arm and aoe.

[mkoo]

Do they hit Kavor defectors in Defection for more damage as well now? I don't think being more agile is an option for them.

[GKP_light]

Il y a 2 heures, main_antagonist a dit :

then mobility needs to be more user friendly

have slide on "CTRL" is the less ergonomic things of the game.

the slide (for bulet jump, or slide attack) is the 2nd key that i use the most, after "go forward"

i changed this to "F".

 

[BlueSabre]

Can you do something about infested ancients scorpion hooking you constantly? This works for grineer scorpions because they are not as common as ancients, but it is very annoying especially in endless missions as they start to spawn more and more frequently. That combined with toxic ancients giving a toxic damage buff to their allies means that you dodge one of their hooks only to be instantly caught up by another and with them dealing toxic damage along side their overall increase in damage this is only going to exacerbate the one shots regardless of shield gating.

[TankorSmash]

this thread is linked as if it was the Armor, Health & Shield Changes thread, is that deliberate?

[FF7Squirrelman]

I haven't fought infested yet after this change but if your going to buff their damage could you at least buff the affinity they give so its more in line with the other factions...

[main_antagonist]

2 hours ago, GKP_light said:

have slide on "CTRL" is the less ergonomic things of the game.

the slide (for bulet jump, or slide attack) is the 2nd key that i use the most, after "go forward"

i changed this to "F".

 

I wouldn't do that personally because if I was to strafe right with 'D' and then press F it would stop my strafe I try to always have my index, middle and ring finger over WASD for mobility.
Typically I use pinky or thumb for jump and crouch since bullet jumps were added to the game regular jumps are hardly used.
I think normal jumps should be still possible to execute but it should be done differently. (see below)

We have to Press 2 keys crouch + jump for a proper jump? When regular jumps aren't really needed and only need 1 key press...
If people want fine control to jump small distances I feel like crouching should accomplish that but it's up to the devs honestly I just thought this was an appropriate time to bring it up if they're encouraging mobility gameplay with the infested damage buff.

Edited March 5, 2020 by main_antagonist

[501VandheerLorde]

My main piece of feedback would be to change the infested ancients from using their grapple as soon as the first thing they do when you enter their range. Even on regular damage it was easy to die when a bunch of ancients were in play launching grapples at you from on and off screen.

[main_antagonist]

3 minutes ago, 501VandheerLorde said:

My main piece of feedback would be to change the infested ancients from using their grapple as soon as the first thing they do when you enter their range. Even on regular damage it was easy to die when a bunch of ancients were in play launching grapples at you from on and off screen.

Yeah a behaviour mechanic change would be good, perhaps using their hook on a player after we leave their melee range.
I usually use primed sure footed to negate hooks and knockdowns because I feel like it's cheap artificial difficulty.
When primed sure footed negates the hook or knockdown there is a forced animation where you stop moving and have a 1 second guard pose which seems kinda pointless.

[Casardis]

These suggestions and inquiries are linked between Infested Damage and AI Ambot Changes:

If you buff Infested damage, consider that they do more than just close range attacks. Even light infested like Chargers have long range attacks through their toxin spit, and there's also the matter of Juggernauts and Ancients who can aim-bot you with their hooks. Are all those attackst considered in the accuracy change?

Depending on how it is, since I haven't tested yet (so please correct me if I'm wrong on some assumptions), I have some suggestions as others have given:

- Make the hook as a slower, more telegraphed move (similar to Juggernaut quill attacks)
- Change the AI so it's not the FIRST thing they do when they use it
- Make their hook travel more logical and in-line with accuracy (especially with the recent change on AI aimbot) and line of sight (they could hook you even if they're facing 180' of you, making parkour completely useless)
- Give it only to ONE Ancient variants. The way they keep spamming it when Ancients appear in large numbers (they're not as rare as certain heavy units in comparison), along with all the criticisms above (aimbot, ignoring LoS, etc) makes it one of the most archaic-looking enemy attack design in the game as it stands.

If that can be done, some of the infested damage buff can be justified further.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Casardis

[GKP_light]

I tested it, and it is not a small buff : 

a Charger level 90 do around 1000 damage per hit (before any reduction).

so at high level, any infested have the damage to 2-shot. (on-shot the shield, then one-shot the life)

[taiiat]

now make Ancients actually telegraph their Grapple, instead of literally forever firing the Grapple before the Arm Animation actually plays, and also make them use it as an active action instead of the exact frame a Player comes within view + within Range. having them start the throw the exact frame a Player is hittable is pretty dumb, and always has been.
also don't let them fire the Grapple in literally any direction, like even backwards clipping through their own body.

and you're not going to do anything about Disruptors' Energy Drain feature & Aura being determined by the Damage the Enemy deals, instead of something more reasonable?
something that doesn't scale with Level or something seeing as the Players' Energy Bar and the Energy Orbs do not ever change.

 

 

8 hours ago, main_antagonist said:

Can we turn regular jumps into bullet jumps normal jumps are kinda redundant, perhaps to have a the normal jump it should be crouch +  jump? 

(no)

1 hour ago, main_antagonist said:

When primed sure footed negates the hook or knockdown there is a forced animation where you stop moving and have a 1 second guard pose which seems kinda pointless.

(yeah unfortunately Knockdown Resist is useless, Handspring does the job like 4x better)

Edited March 5, 2020 by taiiat

[main_antagonist]

Quoted some feedback below and I think I've got a good idea for a solution, take it or leave it because I don't think DE will remove the mechanic entirely but they may be willing to compromise how it works instead.

Keep the snare these enemies have but change how we get it works entirely.
As it is right now being hooked is like being shot with a speargun and reeled in very fast which is the problem because it's like aimbot.
Instead of a snipe hook animation something along the lines of a whip that wraps around us to pull us in.
An animation which has a clear warning/tell so that we can dodge the attack.

5 hours ago, angrykenji said:

please remove or at least look at the hook mechanic ancients (and butchers) use. this has remained unlooked at for years and they are incredibly annoying, instant, aim-bot and will grab you from anywhere and even behind objects. yes, rolling will counter it but you have no notice or reaction in any game mode with effects and dozens of enemies flying around.

 

2 hours ago, BlueSabre said:

Can you do something about infested ancients scorpion hooking you constantly? This works for grineer scorpions because they are not as common as ancients, but it is very annoying especially in endless missions as they start to spawn more and more frequently. That combined with toxic ancients giving a toxic damage buff to their allies means that you dodge one of their hooks only to be instantly caught up by another and with them dealing toxic damage along side their overall increase in damage this is only going to exacerbate the one shots regardless of shield gating.

 

10 minutes ago, 501VandheerLorde said:

My main piece of feedback would be to change the infested ancients from using their grapple as soon as the first thing they do when you enter their range. Even on regular damage it was easy to die when a bunch of ancients were in play launching grapples at you from on and off screen.

Example of how oscillating movement would snare instead of the Linear sniping that Ancients have at the moment.
This type of attack would be much more predictable.

 

[main_antagonist]

6 minutes ago, taiiat said:

(no)

because?

[EiriMatsu]

11 hours ago, main_antagonist said:

Can we turn regular jumps into bullet jumps normal jumps are kinda redundant, perhaps to have a the normal jump it should be crouch +  jump? 

How about a compromise?  Make a toggle for swapping the functions.  That way you can enjoy your easier bullet jumping and those of us that use normal jumps too don't have to deal with with a counter intuitive control scheme.

Legitimate question, as I won't be able to get onto Warframe myself for several hours, but is multiple button mapping not possible in Warframe's configurations?  If not, I feel like allowing that would solve a lot of Warframe's control debates.

[w00dyXXL]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb mkoo:

Do they hit Kavor defectors in Defection for more damage as well now? I don't think being more agile is an option for them.

THIS 

im farming the last harrow part atm and since the update the Tier 3 one on  Neptune-Yursa is WAY WAY harder. i failed 2 times in a row, once in the C Rotation and once in B... they die so fast now it's not funny. They get hit hard because of the low speed.

[zuraja]

16 hours ago, angrykenji said:

please remove or at least look at the hook mechanic ancients (and butchers) use. this has remained unlooked at for years and they are incredibly annoying, instant, aim-bot and will grab you from anywhere and even behind objects. yes, rolling will counter it but you have no notice or reaction in any game mode with effects and dozens of enemies flying around.

This is the big problem I see with this change in general.  Having strong, telegraphed attacks works well in games like Dark Souls where you're generally only facing small numbers of enemies, but in a horde game like Warframe there's just too much crap going on at any one time for it to really be viable outside of boss fights.

 

16 hours ago, Bambilio said:

I was just in a sanctuary run and when we got to an infested room, they would not attack us. They would still run up but would simply hangout around us. More attack damage perhaps, but also 100% more friendly!

This has been a bug for a while.  I've mostly noticed it after host migrations but no idea on what the actual cause is.

[main_antagonist]

7 hours ago, EiriMatsu said:

How about a compromise?  Make a toggle for swapping the functions.  That way you can enjoy your easier bullet jumping and those of us that use normal jumps too don't have to deal with with a counter intuitive control scheme.

Legitimate question, as I won't be able to get onto Warframe myself for several hours, but is multiple button mapping not possible in Warframe's configurations?  If not, I feel like allowing that would solve a lot of Warframe's control debates.

Pretty sure it warns you when it's in use by another function and that compromise is fine with me being able to opt-in for it.
However ...

 

7 hours ago, EiriMatsu said:

don't have to deal with with a counter intuitive control scheme.

I'd say bullet jumps the way they are right now is very counter intuitive. If people are bullet jumping more than regular jumps and they have to press extra keys for something they do more often seems silly when regular jumps are mostly redundant.

I'm actually SUPER curious what the statistics on bullet jumps are, specifically how many bullet jumps have been executed in comparison to normal jumps since the mechanic was added to the game. But I'm dreaming if I was to hope to get my hands on that, the devs have more important things to do than dig up statistics right now and I'm happy that some of the lingering problems are being looked at with a magnifying glass.

Why is why it's important to address bullet jumps if we're being told to be more mobile than ever before.

[Benour]

Imagine having issues with basic movement in warframe. KEKW

Also handspring eliminates any knockdown from ancients. But if you cry long enough DE will "fix it" i bet! So fingers crossed bois. 

The only thing im worried about is ancients having 3x dmg on their hooks also (funny nobody actually mentioned that) im gonna test that in simulacrum and see how it is. 

[aspeedninja]

They need more damage, they feel the same with the shield buffs warframe have gotten, all and all the game feels to easy and kinda dulled down right now with, u can no longer send enemies flying with blast damage which is a shame 

[GKP_light]

il y a 22 minutes, aspeedninja a dit :

They need more damage, they feel the same with the shield buffs warframe have gotten, all and all the game feels to easy and kinda dulled down right now with, u can no longer send enemies flying with blast damage which is a shame 

they don't need more damage. they already have too mush damage.

They need a lot more health, like multiply by 10 they HP.