Make Garuda great again

[nicolajtheking2]

Garuda is one of my favourite warframes and it saddens me to see her get nerfed, the reason i say 'nerfed' is because Garuda is a bleed proc based warframe, now because of "shield-gating" and the changes from that, Garuda no longer have as much damage potential as she once did, therfore i sincerely wish not just for bleed to bypass shields like it once did but for most (Bleed, Toxin, Gas, etc.) DOT (for the ones that don't know DOT means: Damage Over Time) based procs to bypass shields like they once did, by doing this not only garuda would see more use but also other 'frames that is heavly based around status procs.

 

 

Thanks for reading my post, please post a reply with your thoughts.

Edited April 9, 2020 by nicolajtheking2
Correction of grammar

[prodi1600]

I just her only in infested/grineer maps need to test her with corpus.

[supernils]

Maybe you also noticed the changes to Viral damage?

 

[nicolajtheking2]

1 minute ago, supernils said:

Maybe you also noticed the changes to Viral damage?

 

Could you please elaborate?

[supernils]

Also what does shield gating have to do with slash damage, were you one shooting Corpus units before with slash damage procs?

 

[supernils]

And I think it's in the nature of Warframe that frames have strengths and weaknesses, such as mission type or enemy type, and that's good not bad.

[nicolajtheking2]

3 minutes ago, supernils said:

Also what does shield gating have to do with slash damage, were you one shooting Corpus units before with slash damage procs?

 

To answer your questions 1 the new shield gating makes it so the bleed proc is applied to the shield not the HP and 2 no i wasn't.

[supernils]

2 minutes ago, nicolajtheking2 said:

To answer your questions 1 the new shield gating makes it so the bleed proc is applied to the shield not the HP and 2 no i wasn't.

Ok I thought shield gating just refers to the mechanic I mentioned. However viral is now stronger hence slash also profits off of that. Don't get me wrong I actually also like Garuda a lot. I think she has the luxury of 4 functional skills and whether she's up there or down there in the tier is less of a factor of defining my fun with her. It's more important to repair other frames skills than to tweak Garudas numbers but that's just my opinion.

[nicolajtheking2]

1 minute ago, supernils said:

Ok I thought shield gating just refers to the mechanic I mentioned. However viral is now stronger hence slash also profits off of that. Don't get me wrong I actually also like Garuda a lot. I think she has the luxury of 4 functional skills and whether she's up there or down there in the tier is less of a factor of defining my fun with her. It's more important to repair other frames skills than to tweak Garudas numbers but that's just my opinion.

I understand, all i want is for the procs that should go through shields to go through them (How do you even make a shield bleed anyway...) like bleed, gas and so on...

[supernils]

I dont think they would change that just to balance Garuda... but yeah I agree it doesn't make a lot of sense rationally and I also don't see how it is a necessity balance wise.

 

[supernils]

Let me add why I think Garuda is not considered good:

- because she has no hard AoE CC

- because she has no AoE nuke

- because she is no invincible tank

in short, she's not a game breaking no brainer which people love because their lizard brain tells them that power is more fun than challenge. She's how every Warframe should be designed.

[nicolajtheking2]

3 minutes ago, supernils said:

Let me add why I think Garuda is not considered good:

- because she has no hard AoE CC

- because she has no AoE nuke

- because she is no invincible tank

in short, she's not a game breaking no brainer which people love because their lizard brain tells them that power is more fun than challenge. She's how every Warframe should be designed.

You speak  the truth that most people don't want to hear, you're a brave one.

[z3us32610]

Garuda is one of the best designed Warframes and even with shieldgating, I have no problem dispatching corpus. And I've been maining her since shortly after she was released. 

[nicolajtheking2]

4 hours ago, z3us32610 said:

Garuda is one of the best designed Warframes and even with shieldgating, I have no problem dispatching corpus. And I've been maining her since shortly after she was released. 

I'm not sure if you got what i'm trying to say.

What i'm trying to say is that it seems kinda stupid to have the aforementioned procs hit the shield instead of the enemy's HP, you gotta admit it sounds stupid that a SHIELD gets a BLEED proc. (this was an example)

[Vahenir]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they break her 4th ability with the recent patch? Last i heard/tested it no longer made stuff apply bleeds to them. It drops one proc and that's it. Before, and how it should work is that after the initial hit any damage will cause a bleed proc. This comboed nicely with her nr1 ability as it allowed her to nuke enemies with that combo. Shield gate or not this ability combo should easily have nuked stuff in two bleed ticks.

[Galuf]

Suggestion: make her a starter frame as an entry line jack of all trade: she has cheap and dirty(overall bad) sustain, active tanking(wich is quite bad but may be good one day), and some doubtfull nuke ultimate or fully rework her(like rework everything).

It may be another topic but why not just making the very bad frames starter rotationnally: mr0 garuda, grendel, excalibur(as umbra one is better anyway)

This frame was in need of a rework before scarlet spear and now that every player has access to arcane customisation(no longer gated behind the ability and the will to grind plat or eidolons) all her kit imho crumbles to dust. Nobody needs her healing, her kit is underwhelming and overshadowed by things you can get elsewhere. For example I'll definitely use energize over Bloodletting, I wouldn't bother using her ult either as what it provides it too underwhelming considering the cast time. Her talons make no sense either.

I could imagine Garuda beeing good on a mr 3-10 account for budget gearing with quick thinking comboes in the past, but right now this frame makes absolutely no sense.

On the bright side, her concept is fine.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Galuf

[schilds]

The main issue is we're going to see even more of the sentient faction against which her ult does zilch.

Edited April 11, 2020 by schilds

[Mados.sys]

Uh... Guys, Garuda can literally nuke level 165 Gokstad Commanders, what are you talking about? Seeking talons thank god no longer has a limit of 8 talons, it shoots unlimited as long as enemies are on your sight, and finally Dread Heart is affected my the market enemies.

It takes one or two Dread mirror casts, mark everyone with Seeking talons and charge Dread heart a little bit, that's enough for a slash proc that can kill anyone.

Garuda I would dare to say that has the potential to kill any level with those tweaks, I don't know when did they added this, but I love it.

The only ones that can survive are sentients, I just hope they don't nerf her to dead... The things that I would like to see changed tho are her augments, both are really bad.

Dread ward makes you "Unkillable", but that means that enemies can still get you to 2 hp, a godmode would be better since she needs the HP for energy.

Blood forge just... Reloads your weapon... Should I really explain this one? Why not refund the ammo? You're sacrificing half of your health to press R.

Also maybe some sort of mark that shows when an enemy is below 40% health, it's really hard to spot when you can instakill with Dread Mirror.

[GPrime96]

16 hours ago, Vahenir said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they break her 4th ability with the recent patch? Last i heard/tested it no longer made stuff apply bleeds to them. It drops one proc and that's it. Before, and how it should work is that after the initial hit any damage will cause a bleed proc. This comboed nicely with her nr1 ability as it allowed her to nuke enemies with that combo. Shield gate or not this ability combo should easily have nuked stuff in two bleed ticks.

That was a atrocious Bug for Garuda. I’m glad they fixed that and yeah she can deal enough damage to not care about Shield Gating + the Slash with her 1.

On 2020-04-09 at 4:46 PM, supernils said:

Let me add why I think Garuda is not considered good:

- because she has no hard AoE CC

- because she has no AoE nuke

- because she is no invincible tank

in short, she's not a game breaking no brainer which people love because their lizard brain tells them that power is more fun than challenge. She's how every Warframe should be designed.

Also probably the exact reason why she’s underplayed.

Edited April 11, 2020 by GPrime96

[nicolajtheking2]

1 hour ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Uh... Guys, Garuda can literally nuke level 165 Gokstad Commanders, what are you talking about? Seeking talons thank god no longer has a limit of 8 talons, it shoots unlimited as long as enemies are on your sight, and finally Dread Heart is affected my the market enemies.

Have you even tried killing lvlv 165 corpus enemies before with garuda? because it does not sound like it.

Gokstad Commanders are prtty much only armor and HP, so what does it have to do with shield gating?

Edited April 11, 2020 by nicolajtheking2

[nicolajtheking2]

16 hours ago, Vahenir said:

Before, and how it should work is that after the initial hit any damage will cause a bleed proc. This comboed nicely with her nr1 ability as it allowed her to nuke enemies with that combo. Shield gate or not this ability combo should easily have nuked stuff in two bleed ticks.

This is how she should work.

[Mados.sys]

14 minutes ago, nicolajtheking2 said:

Have you even tried killing lvlv 165 corpus enemies before with garuda? because it does not sound like it.

Gokstad Commanders are prtty much only armor and HP, so what does it have to do with shield gating?

The thing is that I did, Dread Heart bypasses shield gating so if a corpus has 500 shield and 500 health, and your heart has 1000 on damage, the corpus dies, in fact I tested it with Raptor too (the index raptor) on level 165 and they also almost instantly dies, the shield got destroyed and the bleeding made them all disappear, so I honestly don't see any problem with Garuda apart from the augments and not knowing when an enemy is below 40% really.

Even on other missions, I just charged Dread Heart a bit, used it against a bunch of intact moas and corpus and they still immediately died.

[nicolajtheking2]

3 minutes ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

The thing is that I did, Dread Heart bypasses shield gating so if a corpus has 500 shield and 500 health, and your heart has 1000 on damage, the corpus dies, in fact I tested it with Raptor too (the index raptor) on level 165 and they also almost instantly dies, the shield got destroyed and the bleeding made them all disappear, so I honestly don't see any problem with Garuda apart from the augments and not knowing when an enemy is below 40% really.

Even on other missions, I just charged Dread Heart a bit, used it against a bunch of intact moas and corpus and they still immediately died.

I stand corrected, i apologize

[Annnoth]

On 2020-04-09 at 4:50 PM, nicolajtheking2 said:

Could you please elaborate?

Damage to health starts off at double damage and goes up to 4.25x. So even if you have to deal with shields, once you get to HP it goes down WAY faster. Not only that, magnetic is just shield viral. If you don't like shields, use magnetic status. Youre using garuda so if you care about seeking talons youre builds should be built for maximizing bleeds first and foremost meaning element doesn't matter too much.

In fact, in theory using magnetic might be equal to viral depending how the damage is calculated. If you hit an enemy with a bunch of magnetic status effects, the bleed damage will scale off that damage bonus and carry over to the HP. That is, unless the damage is only boosted for the duration of the proc. Given how procs work I doubt it.

I'll probably test this later if I get around to it. IMO the status changes just buffed garuda MASSIVELY.

Edit: I was actually wrong, the viral/magnetic status doesn't snapshot based off the boosted hit. So you can apply statuses after a bleed is placed and it still boosts the damage all the same.

That said I noticed something I don't remember being mentioned, slash procs deal half damage to shields. That's definitely unfortunate, but you can still deal with shields fairly effectively.

Edit 2: Probably the bigger thing I noticed was that the slash proc doesn't get that initial more powerful tick. Now it just applies bleed and you have to wait a half a second before any extra damage comes in. So basically you just have to build more for slash if you want to use it instead of slapping it on literally everything garuda does.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Annnoth

[Xzorn]

Garuda has never really been an option for me since DE never fixed her Dread Mirror.

I haven't played in months but I'm betting it still doesn't block radial AoE damage leaving her incredibly vulnerable.

She was a good frame for Endurance run groups since you could get someone to protect her and that 4th was good group damage amp but that's yet another dead aspect of Warframe so I'm not sure what other functional appeal she has since she can't get 1mil eHP, instantly kill the map and relies on status to deal damage.