Loki needs a rework

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

First off make loki base hp and shields 100. At Rank 30 health and shield will be 300. 

Decoy should be permanent. Waste the enemy time on a fake. Decoy should get x3 Loki health and shield (Scales with loki health and shields as well as power strength mods).  A permanent distraction adds to Loki usefulness.

Invisibility should be a drain ability. Master of shape shifting should allow him to hide in plain sight.

Switch Teleport should be replace. Normal teleport or change to another ability.

Radial disarm add a second damage type. 

Loki passive should be change to Loot Detector +20m. And it stacks with other mods like it.

Reasons for this rework.

1.) Loki feels underpower.

2.) Ivara better at Loki's job. Also Ivara has a role of her own. 

3.) Loki outdated warframe.

4.) Loki passive an outdated passive.

5.) Loki isn't being useful due to increase enemy difficulty. 

6.) Loki been replace by Ivara, Limbo and Mirage.

Edited April 18, 2020 by (PS4)Captain_Bonecold

[crimsonspartan1]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Radial Disarm should confused enemies and defense to attack each other. 

[Uhkretor]

54 minutes ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

First off make loki base hp and shields 100.

Decoy should be permanent. Waste the enemy time on a fake. Decoy should get x3 Loki health and shield. 

Invisibility should be a drain ability.

Switch Teleport should be replace.

Radial Disarm should confused enemies and defense to attack each other. 

Loki passive should be change to Loot Detector +20m. And it stacks with other mods like it.

"I don't have enough mod slots for what I really want, so I'm going to ask random stuff that's totally not for my own benefit as a pretext to ask for effects that I can't use due to not having enough mod slots for what I really really want."

Spoiler

... Yep. Sounds about right...

Spoiler

... right?

Spoiler

... right?!

Spoiler

^{_{... yeah~...}}

Also...

32 minutes ago, crimsonspartan1 said:

Don't forget to thank us, and especially crimsonspartan1, for pointing you in the right direction. I didn't do much, personally... 😛

[(NSW)Matt-S]

Rework always essentially means "buff", it's just a nice way to asking for it.

Decoy and Switch Teleport could be adjusted slightly, but overall he's fine. All 4 of his abilities are useful which is what you want really.

[Aldain]

I hear the sounds of thousands of Loki fans coming to the thread to deny that Loki is suffering from an outdated kit.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Aldain

[ScytodiDaedalus]

10 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I hear the sounds of thousands of Loki fans coming to the thread to deny that Loki is suffering from an outdated kit.

Sure, but this post didn't even give feedback or suggestions, they are asking straight up "change it to this plz".

And yes, Loki is outdated.

[GreyDeath789]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

First off make loki base hp and shields 100.

Decoy should be permanent. Waste the enemy time on a fake. Decoy should get x3 Loki health and shield. 

Invisibility should be a drain ability.

Switch Teleport should be replace.

Radial Disarm should confused enemies and defense to attack each other. 

Loki passive should be change to Loot Detector +20m. And it stacks with other mods like it.

Sigh...Loki is fine. It doesn't need a rework. When someone says Loki needs a rework it seems they just don't know how to play Loki.

DE Rebecca on a stream a while ago shows the frame usage and it included if the player was a 'veteran' or not...on the stream it shows Loki as one of the top 3 (5?) frames used by players. Especially 'veterans'...because...it is a strong frame.

YMMV but there isn't really any need to change Loki.

[GreyDeath789]

30 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I hear the sounds of thousands of Loki fans coming to the thread to deny that Loki is suffering from an outdated kit.

*stampede of wild Loki's rumbling toward you"

Yes, Loki is fine...people need to focus on other frames to 'fix'...

[Aldain]

4 minutes ago, GreyDeath789 said:

Loki is fine...people need to focus on other frames to 'fix'...

This I can agree on.

There are MANY frames that need help long before Loki.

But that doesn't mean that Switch Teleport is a good ability that has a practical use, or that Decoy is not strictly worse than Wukong's Celestial Twin in terms of being a distraction since the Twin can also fight and not explode when sneezed on.

But frames like Chroma, Hydroid, and Nyx are what I would consider priority right now, mainly because of either half of their kit being useless (Chroma) or just being very clunky in general (Hydroid).

[ScytodiDaedalus]

7 minutes ago, Aldain said:

or just being very clunky in general (Hydroid).

I remember praising that they made Tidal Surge Cancellable with Undertow, nowadays I can't believe how they added a 2s cancel to an ability that is uncontrollable.

[TheMostFrench]

I don't see any issue with Loki. Invisibility + good melee weapon = unstoppable killer in most cases, especially when you can disarm just about everything on legs. Enemies can't hear melee attacks, and for a low energy cost I can remain invisible for 40 or more seconds with a couple of mods. If you are worried about nullifiers you carry a weapon with high fire rate to get bubbles down quickly. With thrown weapons that have high RoF and are silent it's quick and easy to do without getting any attention.

 

Decoy could be buffed easily if it scaled with enemy level, or was based on duration only with no health pool. If duration only is too strong, Decoy might be balanced by limiting the number of targets it can distract at once based on power strength and ability level - e.g increasing in fives, ability level 3 decoy with no added power strength distracts 15 enemies, and a 100%+ power strength build could distract up to 30 enemies in range of the decoy. You don't usually see more than that at once except in specific game modes, and they won't all be alive long enough for it to matter.
edit: Based on what I wrote about switch teleport below, players could apply status procs to decoy which get applied to enemies who attack it.

 

Invisibility is fine.

 

Switch Teleport is an escape tool right now; can be used with decoy to escape enemies, or maybe just to get around a bit faster. It could be buffed by making it so that if you switch teleport an enemy into a larger group they will attack that enemy for a few seconds in confusion.

To make it stronger, any status procs on the player get transferred to the switch target and will transfer to enemies who attack it during the confusion. It could also work with the Loki decoy - let the Loki player attack the decoy and apply status procs to it, then the player can run into a group of enemies and switch out with the decoy, essentially 'decoy bombing' a group of enemies who attack it.

Now switch teleport becomes a semi-offensive escape ability that fits well with Loki's description - "Allows players to master the battlefield through manipulation".

 

Radial Disarm and the augment is fine.

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by TheMostFrench

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

Ivara Invisibility drains. Loki the master of Illusions and shapeshift. My Loki prime sits on a shelf. While my Ivara prime dosen't. I am a Fan of Loki.Loki needs a rework. Gauss is faster and has better health,shields and Armor. Loki use to have fastest sprint speed. If Wukong can have a permanent copy so should Loki. Many Warframes have replace loki role on a team. That not fair to Loki. The loki population has decrease by alot. At least on ps4. 

[Djego27]

On 2020-04-11 at 10:10 PM, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

First off make loki base hp and shields 100.

Why? It would make no difference at all at higher levels and I find it hard to believe it would make one at lower levels.

On 2020-04-11 at 10:10 PM, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Decoy should be permanent. Waste the enemy time on a fake. Decoy should get x3 Loki health and shield. 

Invisibility should be a drain ability.

Switch Teleport should be replace.

Radial Disarm should confused enemies and defense to attack each other. 

Loki passive should be change to Loot Detector +20m. And it stacks with other mods like it.

3 times HP on Decoy is useless, given Loki has not HP to scale from and this is not what you should use Decoy for. It is actually great to reroute melee or ranged units in combination with slows at high levels(nova, frost etc.).

With shield gating you demand Invisibility being a drain ability? Really? Futuremore this destoys your energy recharge from stuff like energized dash at high levels, for the single reason that people are to lazy to watch at ability timers.

Switch teleport has it's uses like teleporting a melee unit out of a snow globe or a eximus/ancient out of a group of enemy units at high levels, while it might be useless at low levels it is actually a fairly cool ability to showcase your skill as a loki player once targets stop to die to your squad in a instant.

Loki is one of the easiest frames to put a augment on(because you do not need power strength and even duration is questionable at high levels given that you rarely use invisbility in teams build around disarm and you need to refresh the radiation effect anyway) and the agument does exactly that.

If it would be enemy radar be my guest, because that is super handy at high levels, but loot radar? Wtf, dude???

Edit: Assuming you try a edurance run in T4 void defence, a very open map with a CC team.

You have a Nova for 75% slow. You have a frost for the globe to prevent to pod from exploding to stray bullet and for the Ice wave augment, that does stack with Nova slow. You have yourself as a Loki player and you have one wildcard, that could be everything(chroma/saryn for damage, Trinity for hard CC/energy regen or another CC frame like Vauban).

Your main goal is that nobody shots the pod or your team and is preferable to bussy hitting each other with melee weapons at snail speeds. Extra HP would be useless, you will die with or without it. Extra HP on the decoy is useless, most likely duration as well given that you need to reposition it a lot given it will die in a single hit and you will try to just move enemy units around(what buys tons of time if they are super slow), That one melee unit that is within 5m of the pod is suddenly not the priority of the hole team(because they are most likely bussy with other things), because you spotted it and moved it to a place where it starts to chase a enemy unit or your decoy instead. Your own invisiblity is not even important, given that what keeps your team and your pod alive(that are not invisibile) also keeps you alive, what is being disarmed and radiated...

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Djego27

[Aldain]

3 hours ago, Djego27 said:

Switch teleport has it's uses like teleporting a melee unit out of a snow globe or a eximus/ancient out of a group of enemy units at high levels

A few bullets or smacks with a melee stick does that too, for no energy cost (unless it is an energy eximus).

Switch Teleport is a novelty at best and a waste of an ability slot at worst, 90% of all situations where it might be a good idea to move things can be countered with "...or I could just kill them".

A complex solution to a simple problem isn't exactly a ringing endorsement imo.

[TheMostFrench]

13 hours ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Ivara Invisibility drains. Loki the master of Illusions and shapeshift. My Loki prime sits on a shelf. While my Ivara prime dosen't. I am a Fan of Loki.Loki needs a rework. Gauss is faster and has better health,shields and Armor. Loki use to have fastest sprint speed. If Wukong can have a permanent copy so should Loki. Many Warframes have replace loki role on a team. That not fair to Loki. The loki population has decrease by alot. At least on ps4. 

I have the opposite problem. I never use Ivara because the energy drain on prowl annoys me, and I can't be bothered with the arrows. With Loki I can press a button then look at the timer and know exactly when my invisibility will run out no matter what I'm doing.

Gauss is a new frame designed around speed and sprinting, so obviously he can be faster than Loki, and every other frame too.

 

9 hours ago, Aldain said:

A few bullets or smacks with a melee stick does that too, for no energy cost (unless it is an energy eximus).

Switch Teleport is a novelty at best and a waste of an ability slot at worst, 90% of all situations where it might be a good idea to move things can be countered with "...or I could just kill them".

I would argue that most Frames in general are a waste of a slot because there are about 4 or 5 that do everything better than the rest. In a game about killing stuff the best solution is usually '..or I could just kill them'. It is self defeating logic - there are frames that will kill things better than Loki no matter what because that's what they were designed to do. How is Loki meant to compare to something like Mesa or Saryn when they can look in the general direction of some enemies to wipe them out in seconds, or make them melt from several rooms away? Ember used to have the same problem where people would build for range, strength, and efficiency and just walk around levels with World on Fire while others followed. A lot of people didn't seem to mind; this was the build everyone tried to have because it was great for farming and leveling up weapons. At that point, everything else was a novelty.

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, TheMostFrench said:

I would argue that most Frames in general are a waste of a slot because there are about 4 or 5 that do everything better than the rest. In a game about killing stuff the best solution is usually '..or I could just kill them'. It is self defeating logic

Not quite, the issue with Switch Teleport is that it could just as easily be moved over to a hold action for Decoy, that is why it is a waste of a slot, because it preforms such a simple action that has no meaningful impact that it feels like half an ability. The ability does so little that it taking up an entire slot, even Ash's Teleport has the utility of being able to perform a finisher or join in on Bladestorm, meanwhile Loki's only does movement and its augment isn't worth writing home about.

If Decoy could use both itself when pressed and Switch Teleport if held it would allow for Loki to retain his identity and abilities while also making room for something else and that something else wouldn't need to be a damage ability either, it could be another new ability that calls to his namesake being a trickster god.

My point is that an ability which does that little would be better rolled into another to allow something new to exist and better flesh out a frame's identity while not compromising the initial integrity.

[TheMostFrench]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

If Decoy could use both itself when pressed and Switch Teleport if held it would allow for Loki to retain his identity and abilities while also making room for something else and that something else wouldn't need to be a damage ability either, it could be another new ability that calls to his namesake being a trickster god.

 

He used to be able to switch teleport allies as well, but that was too tricksy so they gots rid of it.

Edited April 13, 2020 by TheMostFrench

[Aldain]

7 minutes ago, TheMostFrench said:

He used to be able to switch teleport allies as well, but that was too tricksy so they gots rid of it.

I'd say they more got rid of it so people wouldn't keep warping allies off cliffs or into crowds of enemies, something I remember happening all too often in my earlier days.

Even if being able to swap allies were still a thing Switch Teleport wouldn't be particularly useful.

[TheMostFrench]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

I'd say they more got rid of it so people wouldn't keep warping allies off cliffs or into crowds of enemies, something I remember happening all too often in my earlier days.

Yeah that was the joke I was trying to make 😛

People were enjoying being trickster god too much so they had to tone it down.

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, TheMostFrench said:

People were enjoying being trickster god too much so they had to tone it down.

Seems like rather than toning it down they should have shifted the target of trickster god to enemies instead of allies.

Either way Loki isn't in the worst place, but he is severely outdated and will eventually need something to make him more than just the go-to invisible lad.

[Keiyadan]

Am 11.4.2020 um 22:10 schrieb (PS4)Captain_Bonecold:

Invisibility should be a drain ability.

Switch Teleport should be replace

well if you want hin that way i can only think of ivara and

i have and i am useing all of his abilitys and for me there ist nothing that needs to be changed only if you want to make him worse then he is now
and abilitys like switch teleport event prevented me from having gamebrakeing bugs like stuck drones in poe

Edited April 13, 2020 by Keiyadan

[Elyann]

On 2020-04-11 at 10:10 PM, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

First off make loki base hp and shields 100.

Decoy should be permanent. Waste the enemy time on a fake. Decoy should get x3 Loki health and shield. 

Invisibility should be a drain ability.

Switch Teleport should be replace.

Radial Disarm should confused enemies and defense to attack each other. 

Loki passive should be change to Loot Detector +20m. And it stacks with other mods like it.

Loki needs no rework. 

He is perfect. He is one of the very few frames that work just fine. 

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

Loki outdated. Having Invisibility as a drain offers Loki a way to stay hidden. Loki default passive outdated. Adding 25 health and shields help loki. Loki outdated. Loki switch teleport ability was rarely used and still is rarely used. 

[Fellas92]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Adding 25 health and shields help loki.

It literally does nothing.

8 hours ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Having Invisibility as a drain offers Loki a way to stay hidden

If you can't refresh his ability every time it ends, I really doubt you will be able to sustain the energy drain.

Every time you cannot play a frame properly you jump into forums and ask for a buff/rework. I would be fine if the "rework" suggestion would actually have some good points on why something should be changed, but no, your ideas are literally "add +25hp". What's even worse, you can't even back up your ideas on why the "buff" would benefit in the first place. Your only argument is "change this to that, because I said so." 

Another proof that you have no clue about the warframes you play:

Quote

Radial Disarm should confused enemies and defense to attack each other. 

Do some research before asking for reworks, because you want things which are literally in game already.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Fellas92

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

On 2020-04-15 at 4:35 AM, Fellas92 said:

It literally does nothing.

If you can't refresh his ability every time it ends, I really doubt you will be able to sustain the energy drain.

Every time you cannot play a frame properly you jump into forums and ask for a buff/rework. I would be fine if the "rework" suggestion would actually have some good points on why something should be changed, but no, your ideas are literally "add +25hp". What's even worse, you can't even back up your ideas on why the "buff" would benefit in the first place. Your only argument is "change this to that, because I said so." 

Another proof that you have no clue about the warframes you play:

Do some research before asking for reworks, because you want things which are literally in game already.

You need to understand I have all the warframe frame primes as of now. I have mastered the warframes I use. My Loki prime no longer has a role. My Ivara prime,Limbo prime and Mirage prime out does my Loki Prime. Loki stealth and distraction warframe. He deserves a rework.

That plus 25 base health and shields turns to 300 health and shields on level 30.

Do some research before questioning my data on Loki. I've run the numbers and data on him.