Chroma: how to make toxin, electricity and heat Viable?

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

If you have any reason to run toxin, electricity or heat on chroma please tell me becaus i rarely need reasons to do so 

Cold not only has more Ehp than heat, it also redirects incoming attacks, which means you'll never get hit by bombard rocket explosions...hell even profit taker rockets gets redirected too 

Cold is also isn't weakened by range, and redirected damage is dealt as cold, so enemies are also slowed down

So we know cold is powerful, but what makes the other elements weak?

Heat is inferior to cold, the health numbers might be tempting, but cold will always be better at providing ehp

Electricity provide shields but not shields regeneration rate, also the damage shockwave that you do upon taking damage is affected by range, and you always run low range on chroma, so you can't even benefit from the little croud control that it provides 

Toxin's reload speed and holster speed buff is negligible, they're so weak in my opinion

 

What do i suggest as solution?

chroma uses different elements for different situations, i want to accomplish that, giving each elements a role

If cold is tanking and mitigating damage

Then Heat is support 

Electricity is AOE CC and damage 

Toxin is DPS increase and melee support

First of all, Elemental ward's range is the affinity range for warframes and shouldn't be affected by any mods. 

Second the elemental changes:

Heat: Since now elemental ward is affected by affinity range, Heat is a good element for Support, it heals allies and debuffs enemies with heat procs, almost like old world on fire

Electricity: electricity discharge attack is good if you have range, so having affinity range fixes this problem, in addition we should add shield recharge delay rate and shield recharge speed to increase shield viability on chroma 

Toxin: toxin now increases melee speed...that's it.

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[Veterus]

electricity is very viable heat is semi-viable toxin has it the worst tho

 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

3 minutes ago, Veterus said:

electricity is very viable heat is semi-viable toxin has it the worst tho

 

Electricity is viable because of the damage multiplier or the shields buff?

Edited May 11, 2020 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[Veterus]

Just now, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Electricity is viable because of the damage multiplier or the shields buff?

the multiplier mainly but the shield buffs also helps him have enough shields to max out his vex armor without needing to regen them or have any shield mods.
if running shock chroma it is wise to drop a little str for range but with a base range of 10 its not highly needed as long as you dont have negative range

[Tsoe]

toxin should as well reflect damages as gaz procs while using block

heat need guarented proc or at least modable range

electricity... yeah shield regen and chain proc

 

 

and of course being recastable and 100% proc in a 6 meter range when activating whatever element is used

Edited May 11, 2020 by Tsoe

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

17 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Cold not only has more Ehp than heat

No it doesn't. Cold Ward is not affected by Vex Armor, therefore HP is better than armor.

[xxswatelitexx]

Heat works well if you are running it with Rage with no Shields.
Heat just needs a buff where the more health damage he takes more heat he produces to strip armor of enemies near him.

Electricity does need a Base Range Buff and should increase damage based on combo multiplier of meele.

Toxin - is really hard to balance. I think something like creating a Miasma around him which builds up as he gets headshots. Which has a percentage of chance to absorb ranged damage. This Miasma can protect team mates also in the cloud as well. 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

6 hours ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

Cold Ward is not affected by Vex Armor, therefore HP is better than armor.

Why would it? I get enough armor multipler from both abilities.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Why would it? I get enough armor multipler from both abilities.

Basic maths, there is no need for me to lose my time explaining how it works. 

Go to the wiki for both Vex Armor and Elemental Ward, Cold Ward and Vex Armor are % buffs that only work with base armor, therefore they are additive and so they don't stack.

The total armor would be:

((Base armor)+(1+armor mods+Scorn))+Cold Ward+Arcane Guardian (or any other external source)

The rest is your problem, I'm not into showing and entire EHP calculation just to prove anything, specially when you can stop being a lazy and do it yourself.

Edited May 13, 2020 by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX

[taiiat]

Toxin is already often objectively the best for organized Endgame Players.
Fire is already objectively the best for general purpose and not quite as skilled Players.

it's Ice and Electricity that struggle to be useful. Ice is straight useless and Electricity is 'eh'.

the fact that Fire is better than Ice even though the Health Bonus Fire Ward offers is kinda trash, goes to show how bad Ice Ward is.

 

(and i don't like to make cliffs but, these are objective statements - you can disagree if you like, but you'd be objectively wrong)

Edited May 13, 2020 by taiiat

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

5 hours ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

Basic maths, there is no need for me to lose my time explaining how it works. 

stop being a lazy and do it yourself.

I remember you from past posts, especially that horrible Rhino rework with 1000 base armor 

You still got that annoying attitude i see!

Anyway cold ward is better not only because it has armor, but because it reflects projectiles

Meaning no more bombard rockets one shotting you with their explosions

It's especially useful for profit taker 

 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

Toxin is already often objectively the best for organized Endgame Players.
Fire is already objectively the best for general purpose and not quite as skilled Players.

it's Ice and Electricity that struggle to be useful. Ice is straight useless and Electricity is 'eh'.

the fact that Fire is better than Ice even though the Health Bonus Fire Ward offers is kinda trash, goes to show how bad Ice Ward is.

 

(and i don't like to make cliffs but, these are objective statements - you can disagree if you like, but you'd be objectively wrong)

So let me understand where you're coming from

Toxin is better for endgame because in endgame no amount of ehp can save you 

Health is better than cold because? I still don't see the logic here, i managed to sustain myself a lot better with cold than with fire 

Electricity's only problem is that chromas rely on low range and you can't benefit from the stun or the huge damage multiplier

Unless you want to stack the damage and release it by getting close to the enemy.

[taiiat]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Toxin is better for endgame because in endgame no amount of ehp can save you 

Health is better than cold because? I still don't see the logic here, i managed to sustain myself a lot better with cold than with fire 

 

Electricity's only problem is that chromas rely on low range and you can't benefit from the stun or the huge damage multiplier
Unless you want to stack the damage and release it by getting close to the enemy.

Toxin is preferable in ideal scenarios because you don't need more EHP and Toxin offers Reload, Holster Speed, Et Cetera.

Fire is better than Ice because you can take more Damage before dying. that's it.
Health with Elemental Ward / Health without
vs
EHP Multiplier with Elemental Ward / EHP Multiplier without Elemental Ward

you get considerably more EHP out of Fire. the only way you wouldn't would be if.... you could not Heal yourself, but then you'd be dead by the end of the Mission no matter what so that scenario is irrelevant.
it's ultimately the same reason as to why Steel Fiber is mostly useless on Chroma. you just don't get very much out of it. new / old is very unimpressive.

 

the Lightning fires on its own, can't store it up i'm afraid. that might make it more viable if you could, though. then you could intentionally go to an Enemy and hit it with a full Lightning storm all at once.
would still be so-so to justify vs the others, though. we have Weapons and they deal plenty of Damage.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

3 hours ago, taiiat said:

Toxin is preferable in ideal scenarios because you don't need more EHP and Toxin offers Reload, Holster Speed, Et Cetera.

Fire is better than Ice because you can take more Damage before dying. that's it.
Health with Elemental Ward / Health without
vs
EHP Multiplier with Elemental Ward / EHP Multiplier without Elemental Ward

you get considerably more EHP out of Fire. the only way you wouldn't would be if.... you could not Heal yourself, but then you'd be dead by the end of the Mission no matter what so that scenario is irrelevant.
it's ultimately the same reason as to why Steel Fiber is mostly useless on Chroma. you just don't get very much out of it. new / old is very unimpressive.

 

the Lightning fires on its own, can't store it up i'm afraid. that might make it more viable if you could, though. then you could intentionally go to an Enemy and hit it with a full Lightning storm all at once.
would still be so-so to justify vs the others, though. we have Weapons and they deal plenty of Damage.

He is just that lazy bro, give up on him, don't lose your time.

He never checks math, his ideas are always superficial (literally the O N L Y post about Chroma that is not a rework, is band-aid for a mediocre skill) and he is extremely lazy.

He can check all the info about the ward on the wiki, the wiki precisely states that the armor bonus is additive, so we can conclude it DOESN'T INTERACT WITH VEX ARMOR, so there is literally no reason to bother about Cold instead of Fire when you want to tank.

Like, the sole reason I'm advising you to ignore this guy is because that's NOT the first time he states wrong things about Elemental Ward (and it is literally the same damn topic about Cold supposedly being better than Heat). The guy had almost 1 year to change, he still has the same mindset.

Edited May 13, 2020 by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

2 hours ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

He is just that lazy bro, give up on him, don't lose your time.

He never checks math, his ideas are always superficial (literally the O N L Y post about Chroma that is not a rework, is band-aid for a mediocre skill) and he is extremely lazy.

He can check all the info about the ward on the wiki, the wiki precisely states that the armor bonus is additive, so we can conclude it DOESN'T INTERACT WITH VEX ARMOR, so there is literally no reason to bother about Cold instead of Fire when you want to tank.

Like, the sole reason I'm advising you to ignore this guy is because that's NOT the first time he states wrong things about Elemental Ward (and it is literally the same damn topic about Cold supposedly being better than Heat). The guy had almost 1 year to change, he still has the same mindset.

I wish i had access to your old posts just to show how toxic you were 

You're an ignorant arrogant kid that never listens to anyone and just on here to bash everyone's ideas and opinions 

What a negative way to live.

[PanMatter]

On 2020-05-11 at 7:30 PM, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Electricity is AOE CC and damage 

Toxin is DPS increase and melee support

I think it should be switched. Toxin just feel like more AOE element than Electricity

[taiiat]

27 minutes ago, PanMatter said:

I think it should be switched. Toxin just feel like more AOE element than Electricity

Toxin has AoE too, it's an infinitely scaling DoT. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[PanMatter]

4 minutes ago, taiiat said:

Toxin has AoE too, it's an infinitely scaling DoT. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yep... I missed that fact, thanks for clarification

[Dragazer]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

I wish i had access to your old posts just to show how toxic you were 

You're an ignorant arrogant kid that never listens to anyone and just on here to bash everyone's ideas and opinions 

What a negative way to live.

https://ehpcalc.net/

He's right and you're wrong.

Both with same build

Cold:

 

Heat:

 

Heat is also far better dealing with slash procs since the armor from cold would straight up be ignored. Heat also heals you upon cast

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

2 hours ago, Dragazer said:

https://ehpcalc.net/

He's right and you're wrong.

Both with same build

Cold:

 

Heat:

 

Heat is also far better dealing with slash procs since the armor from cold would straight up be ignored. Heat also heals you upon cast

i don't care about EHP...i am talking about tactical applications

cold does indeed has lower EHP than heat, but cold is potentially better for it's damage reflection ability 

it can redirect bombard rockets, preventing getting damaged by splash 

it can redirect most projectile shotguns also preventing most of the damage

it can redirect profit taker rockets.

not only that, any redirected damage is dealt as cold so enemies are slowed down, so they have lower fire rate which increases the overall survivability of chroma.

 

this is what he does, he made a Rhino rework a year go, gave him 1000 armor and 50% damage reduction ability instead of iron skin, then proceeded to ridicule and mock everyone's opinions, with the infamous quote "i'm not going waste my time to explain to you, you're lazy" 

 

his threads gets locked down for lack constructive arguments, if he doesn't want to explain and provides examples for his argument like you did, then why is he even here?

Edited May 14, 2020 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[Dragazer]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

i don't care about EHP...i am talking about tactical applications

cold does indeed has lower EHP than heat, but cold is potentially better for it's damage reflection ability 

Literally made a false claim in your op, but ok:

On 2020-05-11 at 1:30 PM, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Cold not only has more Ehp than heat

 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, Dragazer said:

Literally made a false claim in your op, but ok:

 

Well after you've shown me the numbers, it'd be dumb if i didn't agree 

I never knew this site existed,

I'll go and put a line on that sentence.

But again, you're missing the point here, cold's CC potential helps chroma survive better 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[TeCoolTenno]

I'd say cold is better for outright survivability due to the slows and redirection but heat is a much more team oriented element imo

 

While both buff survivability, a build dedicated to heat can:

heal teammates

reduce enemy armour by 50% and cause panic via heat proc

increase ally EHP more than cold

 

I think electricity and toxin are weak, but heat and cold are a toss up and dependent on the mission types and what is needed

[LascarCapable]

Thread cleaned. Let's not fight for silly stuff, thank you.

[Archwizard]

I'm not gonna get into the war over which element provides the best Ward. At the end of the day, they're each made for different situations and builds.

I'm just going to point out that Toxin Ward's holstering buff has literally zero effect anymore now that holstering is instant for all weapons, and since it already lost its survival benefits when stamina was removed and blocking was disconnected from it, it should really have something to nudge it back towards being a survival tool with some damage benefits like the other elements, rather than a pure damage effect.

I'd like to nominate giving a small leech heal based on the Toxin damage it inflicts. Not something where it can instantly full-heal you at high levels, but just a case of a constant HoT that could play well into Vex's armor buff. Of course, this could potentially step on Oberon's toes, so I'd be happy to hear alternative suggestions.