Exalted Weapons on Other Frames

[Chainsaga]

Garuda can use her Exalted Claws when not equipping any melee weapons. Why can't other frames do this?
1. Atlas' Exalted Fists
2. Khora's Exalted Whip
3. Gara's Exalted Sword
4. Ash's Exalted Blades (can use fists stance or turn into dual daggers)
5. Did I miss any?

Just some thought that other frame's Exalted Weapon can be individually modded, but these "Exalted Weapons" can't be modded separately and derive their stats from equipped Melee

[taiiat]

because all of the others you're referring to are already an Ability.

[Chainsaga]

9 minutes ago, taiiat said:

because all of the others you're referring to are already an Ability.

Garuda's Claws is also an ability

[T-Shark69]

Not every frame needs exalted weapons.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

1 hour ago, Chainsaga said:

Garuda's Claws is also an ability

Actually no, they arent. They are used as part of ability animations, but claws arent used unless you Intentionally remove melee 

[Chainsaga]

I think I need to clarify. I didn't mean allowing the Exalted weapons to be modded individually to affect the abilities while having a melee equipped without affecting the skill (like other exalted weapons). Just the option to play with those weapons. If a melee is equipped, it will behave like how it is currently. But if no Melee is equipped, those frames will use those weapons instead (with the respective skills stats affected by the mods)

[Chainsaga]

1 hour ago, T-Shark69 said:

Not every frame needs exalted weapons.

wouldn't hurt to have the options though

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

8 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

Not every frame needs exalted weapons.

Not the point of the topic.

More that when no melee is equipped on garuda, she can use her claws as a normal melee.

I for one would find it cool if ash for example could use his hidden arm daggers as a normal melee. Likewise for the other frames

 

Even gara...glass 2 handed nikana please.

[T-Shark69]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Not the point of the topic.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Garuda's_Talons

Read the first line in that page. As I said : Not every frame needs exalted weapons.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

 

8 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Garuda's_Talons

Read the first line in that page. As I said : Not every frame needs exalted weapons.

Again, not the point.

 

Exaulted weapons.. are seperately modable weapons innate to a warframe.

Not every frame has one but severl have abilities that are weapon mods affected. Things like Khoras whip are in function exaulted weapons already however we cannot use them outside their specifically animated abilities. The concept of this topic is allowing those weapons, with their unique visuals to be used as melee weapons to the same fashion as Garuda. 

Need i remind you that garuda like khora only uses her claws as part of her animations? 

 

This topic is not trying to do something like adding an EXAULTED ELECTROMAGNETIC CANNON to mag or something like that. Just letting the already built in weapons on some frames be useable as melee like garuda.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

Many people wanted to be able to use Khoras whip as a melee when she was added. Hell it was originally going to be exaulted in the first place. Letting players use it like garudas claws as a little extra is hardly going to offend anyone.

 

[taiiat]

13 hours ago, Chainsaga said:

But if no Melee is equipped, those frames will use those weapons instead (with the respective skills stats affected by the mods)

so, exactly what i said then - the others aren't because they are already an Ability and thusly benefit from traits that only Abilities get generally - but you want to get those traits without using the Ability.
idunno about that, mang.

[kwlingo]

15 hours ago, Chainsaga said:

Just some thought that other frame's Exalted Weapon can be individually modded, but these "Exalted Weapons" can't be modded separately and derive their stats from equipped Melee

Well I've been thinking about his for the longest time, allow us to melee fist if no melee weapons is equipped. This in itself would implement a new tactic in gameplay, either for memes or stealth game play or bullet jumping to open enemies up for us to  finish them up with a hand breaking finisher similar to parazon. Yes this would be a very slow game play but I can see this being so fun and skill based versus the random spamming of melee or explosive AOE or ability spamming.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

so, exactly what i said then - the others aren't because they are already an Ability and thusly benefit from traits that only Abilities get generally - but you want to get those traits without using the Ability.
idunno about that, mang.

I dont think they are suggesting something like having khoras whipclaw become her normal melee without a melee equipped.. more that if you didnt have a melee equiped, you would get a whip called whipclaw that you can mod. Since whipclaw uses the mods on your equpped melee weapon to affect its damage it would of course use the mods on the innate weapon.

 

Basically exactly how Garudas claws work. They are a part of her animations, but can be used as a seperate weapon. There was no reason DE did this other than why not..

Likewise i would love to use Khoras whip as a normal melee. The skin on it is quite astounding.

 

The use of "exaulted" in this topic seems to be confusing everyone that reads it as this is the first time i have seem people resist the idea of extra innate weapons for funs sake.

Edited May 25, 2020 by (PS4)ForNoPurpose

[DeMonkey]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

The use of "exaulted" in this topic seems to be confusing everyone

Probably because "exalted weapons" have long been defined as ability summoned weapons costing energy with various mod restrictions.

Garuda's claws are not exalted weapons, regardless of what the community made wiki page states. They fit the category of "basic melee" far far far more closely than they do the "exalted" category. Mis-categorising them confuses people.

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

I dont think they are suggesting something like having khoras whipclaw become her normal melee without a melee equipped.. more that if you didnt have a melee equiped, you would get a whip called whipclaw that you can mod.

oh. 
uhhh, i guess that could be done (though Exalted Blade might be a bit problematic).

[TeCoolTenno]

I want one of two things to happen, as an Ivara main

 

1. If you equip a weapon of the matching type, you gain the ability to skin your weapon to match the exalted, maybe a mildly weaker looking version.

2. If you don't have anything equipped in the in the slot, you gain a typical weapon of the type and appearance the exalted weapon is, except buffed to a bit over prime/kuva level. Activating the ability changes/transformed the weapon to its current functionality if an ability is available. For frames without exalted weapon abilities, but use special weapons in ability casts such as ash, having the weapon out instead decreases base casting times (which then can be reduced further with natural talent)

 

Maybe I'll finally get the daikyu prime release I wanted so badly with Ivara Prime

 

For some frames, signature weapons make sense, as they're separate are better understood by their original owners.

For others, exalted weapons make more sense, namely if the weapon will appear even if it is not equipped, due to appearing from a certain ability, or being part of ability cast animations

And for the rest, obviously neither. They use their hands, feet, whatever, and don't need the feeling of having their main niche spammed.

 

Not every frame should get one, but DE should acknowledge it as a tool to better express the themes and playstyles of frames, especially where other methods end up simply being annoying. Like I stated above, Ivara can use this system to encourage her slow and stealthy play, moreso than her prowl's noise restriction (aka exilus tax) ever would.

 

A few frames without any obvious weapons that can actually work really well with them:

Vauban can gain exalted talons/castanas on his secondary slot except with an arming time to really make his trapping skills stand out. Currently they added enemy level scaling to his mines to make them work better, but adding this weapon would make him even better at what he does outside of vortex spamming

Ember can shoot fireballs out of her hands if no primary/secondary weapon is equipped, these do average damage but interact with her heat resources. Unlike Frost, Nova, and other elemental or projectile ability frames (in case people would start asking, "Why not give Volt an amprex as well then?"), Ember is meant to be a spammy, "set everything on fire with her own powers" type of character, while the others tend to either be slower, or encourage mixing with gun play unrelated to their theme. Ember wants heat weapons for her passive, she wants to have the feel of a pure caster with only a bit of backup from a gun, this would really bring her to feeling powerful enough to not need weapons and simply be a caster (in a thematic sense)

Zephyr is one that's a bit more complicated, and way more technical, but she can definitely benefit from a replaced melee weapon. As a frame based on aerial movement, there's only one midair combo per weapon and they're rarely any good. It also feels very odd to fly while holding something. A wing gust melee exalted that lifts her upwards on attacks, allows for momentum control that no other weapon really does well enough (think old melee drifting except more on control than speed), and has a ranged wind attack would really make her feel more birdlike. Overall, this is a weaker one, but still an example if DE wanted to lean towards giving more exalted weapons than less

 

The rest, like Mag, Loki, Nyx, etc, obviously not. There's no thematic connection needed to be made that can't be done so by taking a gun (ferrox is actually really cool with mag), or would change the frame way too much (Nyx can potentially have a nukor mind weapon, but it would really make her feel cartoonish)

Edited May 26, 2020 by TeCoolTenno

[Chainsaga]

9 hours ago, taiiat said:

oh. 
uhhh, i guess that could be done (though Exalted Blade might be a bit problematic).

exalted blade on excalibur is an ability to summon the exalted weapon. I'm not talking about an ability that summons exalted weapon. i am talking about similar system to Garuda's Talons. If no melee is equipped, those frames use their own weapons. That's it.

1. If they have melee, like for example a Skana, the mods on Skana will affect the skills related (Atlas 1, Gara 1, Khora 1, etc)
2. If they DON'T have melee, they use their own weapon and the mods on that "exalted" weapon will affect the mods instead.

I know Garuda's 1 isn't affected by melee mods, but it's still used on the animation. So physically, Garuda has an exalted weapon that she can use (if not equipping any melee). Some other frames also physically has an exalted weapon, and giving them the option to use it would be nice.

I'm sorry if some of my wording might be confusing

[T-Shark69]

1 hour ago, Chainsaga said:

I'm sorry if some of my wording might be confusing

Not in the least. I'm saying that while Garuda's seems fun, it shouldnt be a staple for every frame that remotely uses a melee weapon in their abilities. Atlas' fist for instance seems quite the overreatch because then you gotta have Rhino's Exalted Stomp, Zephyr's Exalted Featherfan and so on. They're fine as is as quriks to their abilities.

Galuda's Talons are still an exalted weapon, since mods dont work the same as other weapons and it's still innate to Garuda.

Edited May 26, 2020 by T-Shark69

[selig_fay]

2 hours ago, Chainsaga said:

exalted blade on excalibur is an ability to summon the exalted weapon. I'm not talking about an ability that summons exalted weapon. i am talking about similar system to Garuda's Talons. If no melee is equipped, those frames use their own weapons. That's it.

1. If they have melee, like for example a Skana, the mods on Skana will affect the skills related (Atlas 1, Gara 1, Khora 1, etc)
2. If they DON'T have melee, they use their own weapon and the mods on that "exalted" weapon will affect the mods instead.

I know Garuda's 1 isn't affected by melee mods, but it's still used on the animation. So physically, Garuda has an exalted weapon that she can use (if not equipping any melee). Some other frames also physically has an exalted weapon, and giving them the option to use it would be nice.

I'm sorry if some of my wording might be confusing

I think you're just making it harder.

Do you want exalted weapons for mod link? And for this weapon to replace an empty weapon slot? Is that all?

Because people care not only about Atlas or Khora (although this is also because you lose riven), but also about Exalted abilities that exist because they are a real problem now and some people would like to replace weapons in exalted abilities, but still leave the option to build an old ability.

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, Chainsaga said:

exalted blade on excalibur is an ability to summon the exalted weapon. I'm not talking about an ability that summons exalted weapon. i am talking about similar system to Garuda's Talons. If no melee is equipped, those frames use their own weapons. That's it.

yes, and Exalted Blade might be problematic via it meaning having 40 Meters of infinite 'Punch-Through' in a Weapon Slot.
even if it doesn't get the alternative Hit Counter scaling that it does as an Ability.

[Xepthrichros]

Can't believe you omitted Nezha's Chakram. Which is so big and takes up so much of the frame's aesthetic.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Xepthrichros

[DeMonkey]

7 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

Galuda's Talons are still an exalted weapon, since mods dont work the same as other weapons and it's still innate to Garuda.

Exalted Weapon: Energy cost, no acolyte or amalgam mods, tied to an ability and as such affected by Warframe mods, unique stance.

Normal Weapon: No energy cost, generally unlimited access to mods, not tied to any abilities, generic shared stances.

Which category does Garuda's Talons fit best, I wonder? If you want to give her Talons a new category to differentiate it from a normal melee weapon, fine, but lumping it in with everything else "exalted" completely messes with the category, as it doesn't even remotely fit with anything else in there.

[T-Shark69]

2 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Which category does Garuda's Talons fit best, I wonder?

Melee Weapons : Can be used in Melee Sorties, contribute to MR, Set bonuses apply, affected by rift, affect weapon affinity
Exalted Weapons and Garuda's talons : None of the above

I call them Exalted Weapons just so people like you lose sleep over it.

[DeMonkey]

2 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

Melee Weapons : Can be used in Melee Sorties, contribute to MR, Set bonuses apply, affected by rift, affect weapon affinity
Exalted Weapons and Garuda's talons : None of the above

Congrats, you just listed some of the ways it's not a normal weapon.

Still doesn't make it an exalted weapon though, does it?

2 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

If you want to give her Talons a new category to differentiate it from a normal melee weapon, fine

^

2 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

I call them Exalted Weapons just so people like you lose sleep over it

Nah, you call them that because you don't know any better, and you're too stubborn and vitriolic to learn.