Magnetic procs are actual garbage.

[(PSN)DidelphisV]

Let’s be honest, Magnetic is one of the worst statuses in the game and it always has been (I know blast and impact are terrible as well, but let’s just try and solve one problem at a time) Magnets are cool. Magnetism is a powerful and ancient force of nature, yet since the very beginning of this game it’s been useless. In its current state, Toxin beats it in every way (and thats assuming shields are ever a threat, which they are not.) it pretty much only works on corpus, and at that point you’d be better off with a faction damage mod tbh. 

my idea? CC. Enemies affected by magnetic procs are drawn to eachother, the more procs the stronger the effect/wider range (kinda like how gas works.) I wouldn’t expect it to launch enemies and rag doll them, just bunch them up for more AoE potential 

But I’m definitely interested in hearing other ideas. I hate seeing one proc be so outclassed by everything (and if you try to tell me it’s good, I will beat you with a shoe. You are lying to yourself.)

Edited June 5, 2020 by (PS4)DidelphisV

[NoSpax]

An enemy who has a visible magnetic proc should attact bullets by a small amount.

[FLSH_BNG]

I'd have the basic magnetic proc jam weapons for the duration of the debuff,

Once the procs start to stack that's when things get weird: enemies with an even number of magnetic status proc stacks on them are attracted to other proc'ed enemies with an even number of procs, and repel/are repelled by enemies with an odd number of procs on them. The larger the stack of procs, the more powerful the magnetism, possibly resulting in enemies ragdolling towards/away from each other when the number of magnetic stacks get high enough.

Alternatively, stacks of magnetic procs can spread to nearby enemies, jamming their weapons as well but for a shorter duration as the smaller stacks decay faster than the original larger stack.

Alternative #2:
Enemies affected by magnetic procs redirect a portion of the damage they take to other nearby enemies, as the weapons fired at them have some of their rounds bent away from the magnetized target and find their way to other targets.

Alternative #3:
Give magnetism the magnetize proc that void damage currently has and give void damage a new proc that suits it a bit better from a lore/gameplay perspective. Though this will also require a bit of a tweak to Mag's "Magnetize" ability, since the primary draw of that ability is now going to proc from just about any weapon with the right damage type, and possibly from all of Mag's abilities as well; Makes it seem a little redundant in this instance.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

Drakgoon + bullet attracting magnetic status = homing shotgun lol.  

I've been using drakgoon on my mag who is currently my 4th most used frame and about to overtake valkyr.    Im using a crush build which has no duration so her magnetize kind of really sucks but it works enough to get one or two blasts off and have every pellet murder stuff in the bubble lol.  

[Amadurim]

What make magnetic bad are:
1. Shield pose no threat.
Except some really high shield value like Kyta Raknoid (the green one that can regen and give overshield to itself).If corpus EHP were brought to grineer level, magnetic can see some play.

2. Bad damage type.
Magnetic has -50% against alloy armor, which is very bad considering most strong enemies have alloy armor under the shield like Bursa, bosses, and index/rathuum enemies. Change magnetic to be neutral against alloy armor and -50% against machinery or infested.

3. Most Corpus units are beefy.
Most of Corpus HP are health/flesh, this make magnetic has no significant impact in killing corpuses. Viral is better.

4. Toxin exist.
Toxin bypass shields altogether. This might be a different case if it works like Slash instead.

Some ideas how to make magnetic see uses:
- Remove -50% against alloy armor.
- Rebalance Corpus units to have little health/flesh but HUGE shield, like in enhanced shield sortie. Pls remove shield gating if this is going to be a thing.
- Rework toxin to only has its proc to bypass shield.
- Some corpus enemies can be made to only have shield as their health type, making Viral bad against Corpus and Toxin to be optional rather than mandatory.
- Disable any kind of shield regen, including Shield Ospreys.
- Corpus heavies can recharge their shields and gain overshield once.

And if these ideas do happen, decrease the amount of Nullifiers can exist in the same time. Preferably to be the same as Nox. But buff their stats to be as tanky as Techs. Now you dont have to worry 5 arctic nullifiers flanking you, worry about their Lanka instead.

[(PSN)NemitheNem]

I've been thinking about alternitive status effects to make everything viable and less broken.

A thought I had was that at a certain break point (destruction of the shield for corpus units, 25% health for non shielded units for instance) there would be a surge dependant on how many stacks of magnetic there are on the foe. Maybe a small disarming pulse, or electrical discharge, or yanking all enemies in like exodia hunt.

[jerrysimon]

2020/6/6 AM5点06分 , Amadurim 说:

Some ideas how to make magnetic see uses:
- Remove -50% against alloy armor.
- Rebalance Corpus units to have little health/flesh but HUGE shield, like in enhanced shield sortie. Pls remove shield gating if this is going to be a thing.
- Rework toxin to only has its proc to bypass shield.
- Some corpus enemies can be made to only have shield as their health type, making Viral bad against Corpus and Toxin to be optional rather than mandatory.
- Disable any kind of shield regen, including Shield Ospreys.
- Corpus heavies can recharge their shields and gain overshield once.

Things to do next:

- Make Shield Bar red

- Call it Health instead

 

Some of these will not make magnetic see uses, it will just make shield look meaningless. If shield can't regen then it is just health but shown in blue.

Edited June 17, 2020 by jerrysimon

[Amadurim]

1 hour ago, jerrysimon said:

Things to do next:

- Make Shield Bar red

- Call it Health instead

 

Some of these will not make magnetic see uses, it will just make shield look meaningless. If shield can't regen then it is just health but shown in blue.

Ok, yeah, seems a bit excessive. If going by what i said, magnetic to shields are like viral to grineer's health with stripped armor, which would make shields might as well not exist. If shields are constantly regenerating on top of shield would pose a threat. Magnetic proc could be just increasing damage to shield.

Shield gating must go away either way.  

The point of shield buff is just not to make viral a do-it-all proc, and with how high corpus's health compared to their shields, it's an predictable outcome.

[kwlingo]

Only way to make Magnetic viable would be to buff up shields on enemies. If not, its not really needed.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Only a few ennemies have enough shield to make mag proc' relevant, and one of the highest shield value is the kyta raknoid which is immune to proc'

So yes mag need something new. Jamming weapon or swap with void bubble would be ok

Also damage chart make it too niche to make it a tier 1 damage type

[Scar.brother.help.me]

I like the pull idea the most. The more magnetic procs, the wider pull to that enemy.

 

Damage type could be +75% to globes (null/freeze) and no alloy resistance.

 

And for as long as toxin ignores shields - who cares about magnetic doing something to it? Better chance to pop the bubbles instead.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Scar.brother.help.me

[Steel_Rook]

Let me just get this out of the way: Scrap enemy health type weakness/strengths, scrap the majority of damage types down to one physical and four elemental ones. With that out of the way...

From my perspective, Magnetic has several issues:

• It's too situational, effective only against Corpus units as essentially no other faction uses shields.
• It's not effective enough in its appropriate situation as Corpus units have a large health component that Magnetic does little against.
• A few Corpus proxies use Grineer health types as armour (Ferrite and Alloy), which are strong against Magnetic.
• Shields in general remain weak despite DE's attempts to improve them.

Magnetic isn't useless. Already we have a few enemies with MASSIVE shields in the game. Kyta Raknoids are a good example someone brought up, but the Granum Crown Carrier is another example. Those bastards are MASSIVELY tanky and almost all shield, so Magnetic damage helps break that down and keep it from regenerating. The problem is that it's too weak even in its own niche, and other damage types can usually do just as well. Viral, for instance, rips humanoids to shreds while not really having a penalty against shields or proxies. Similarly, Cold is very powerful against common Corpus shields with the added control element.

I'm of the opinion that Corpus units need to rely FAR more heavily on shields as a larger portion of their health and more so on shield regen than shield capacity. If Corpus Proxies need to be armoured (and I'm not convinced that they do - just give them more shields), they can be armoured either with Robotic armour or else with some other kind of Corpus-specific health that doesn't match Grineer damage type vulnerabilities. Corrosive and Radiation rip the Grineer to absolute shreds, but Magnetic does nothing of the sort to the Corpus. And it really should.

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

The fact that armor class modifiers double dip should be addressed. Radiation does 6x more damage than neutral against Sortie level Bombards and Magnetic does a fraction of neutral against Alloy. The chasm between modifiers should be addressed.

[Dracus_Dakkrius]

As others have said, the biggest problem with Magnetic isn't in the Damage Type itself, but in the fact that Shields are much too rare and too weak a defense. Even if we fix that, I'm convinced that Heat procs are the golden standard that every other Status proc should live up to. Heat has Crowd Control (enemies panic), Damage over Time (burning over time), and Damage Vulnerability (armor strip). If Magnetic were to follow this model, it would cause enemies and enemy bullets to be pulled into each other (like with your suggestion) and deal damage to Shields over time, in addition to its existing effects.

Also, can we talk about how ridiculous it is that Magnetic is when it's used on the players? I feel like a Status Effect shouldn't have such a drastic difference in its function between being used by the players and the enemy. Personally, I'd like to see Magnetic's UI screw and Energy Drain moved to the Tau Damage Type, which is used by the Shadow Stalker and the Sentients. UI screw makes sense for the Stalker, since he already darkens your screen to announce his arrival, and because of the special connection he has to the Tenno. Energy Drain makes sense for the Stalker since he is able to use and dispel Warframe abilities, so it feels like he's stealing your power. Energy Drain makes sense for the Sentients because they restore all your energy when you kill them, so it feels like you're taking back the energy they stole. Tau currently has no Status Effect, and I feel like this change would make the Shadow Stalker and the Sentients a little bit scarier, as they should be.

[jerrysimon]

2020/6/17 PM2点38分 , Amadurim 说:

If going by what i said, magnetic to shields are like viral to grineer's health with stripped armor

You are kinda wrong in comparing shield with health. It should instead be compared with armor. Both of them grant additional EHP, but in differemt ways. Shield does it by adding flat value on top of existing health, and armor does it by reducing damage taken.

Some enemies have armor, some have shield instead. But all enemy (or at least the majority of enemy that we will be fighting against at a da to day basis) will have a health bar,  so if there is any status that is strong against health, it is going to be the most popular one. This is what makes viral more important than any other status effect. 

With armor being more effective in increasing EHP, it does not prevent the effect of increased damage from viral proc, which shield does. The reason why shield is still not as effective is because enemy do not have enough shield to make it a thing that players have to mod for a magnetic status effect to by pass it. 

The only time I have ever had any trouble dealing with shielded enemies is when i was MR0 and my Mk-1 Braton cannot deplete an enemies' shield before i need to reload, and it keeps regenerating, making it nearly invincible. 

[Scar.brother.help.me]

On 2020-06-17 at 4:05 PM, Steel_Rook said:

Let me just get this out of the way: Scrap enemy health type weakness/strengths, scrap the majority of damage types down to one physical and four elemental ones. With that out of the way...

From my perspective, Magnetic has several issues:

• It's too situational, effective only against Corpus units as essentially no other faction uses shields.
• It's not effective enough in its appropriate situation as Corpus units have a large health component that Magnetic does little against.
• A few Corpus proxies use Grineer health types as armour (Ferrite and Alloy), which are strong against Magnetic.
• Shields in general remain weak despite DE's attempts to improve them.

Magnetic isn't useless. Already we have a few enemies with MASSIVE shields in the game. Kyta Raknoids are a good example someone brought up, but the Granum Crown Carrier is another example. Those bastards are MASSIVELY tanky and almost all shield, so Magnetic damage helps break that down and keep it from regenerating. The problem is that it's too weak even in its own niche, and other damage types can usually do just as well. Viral, for instance, rips humanoids to shreds while not really having a penalty against shields or proxies. Similarly, Cold is very powerful against common Corpus shields with the added control element.

I'm of the opinion that Corpus units need to rely FAR more heavily on shields as a larger portion of their health and more so on shield regen than shield capacity. If Corpus Proxies need to be armoured (and I'm not convinced that they do - just give them more shields), they can be armoured either with Robotic armour or else with some other kind of Corpus-specific health that doesn't match Grineer damage type vulnerabilities. Corrosive and Radiation rip the Grineer to absolute shreds, but Magnetic does nothing of the sort to the Corpus. And it really should.

Your thoughts bring me to the idea that shields should have a lot of resistances (+75% or more) against most elements except magnetic/cold/impact damage to become serious. And toxin should not bypass it (at least not direct damage, dot - may be, as slash procs to armor).

Someone may say that it is too much, other damage types are useless to shields in that case but this is what we have right now versus armor: either corrosive or viral/slash proc (+fire as an option to both).

[Steel_Rook]

14 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Your thoughts bring me to the idea that shields should have a lot of resistances (+75% or more) against most elements except magnetic/cold/impact damage to become serious. And toxin should not bypass it (at least not direct damage, dot - may be, as slash procs to armor).

Postings from my phone, so apologies for my spelling...

It won't help. The issue with armour isn't 75% resistance. That's certainly a lot, but not excessively so given the amount of damage we do. It's when resistance goes into the 95%+ range that it starts to outstrip our damage. No amount of absolute damage resistance on shields will match Grineer armour, because theirs scales with their level. Adding 75% resistance to Corpus shields effectively means *4 shields. That's certainly more, but not enough to make a difference. Actually, it's even less than that, since Corpus shields already have 25% resistance now.

If you want any kind of party between Corpus and Grineer EHP, you need to address armour scaling. Right now, shields and health are additive in their contribution to EHP, but armour and health are multiplicative. Every point of shields adds the same amount of EHP regardless of health, but the contribution of a point of armour depends on max health. More health makes armour more effective, more armour makes health more meaningful. Want to fix that? Don't scale armour with enemy level. Simple as that.

Let's say Grineer Commons have 300, Specials have 600, Minibosses have 900-1200. That's it, at any level. That way, Grineer EHP becomes linear with their health, exactly as is the case with the Corpus. He'll, exactly as it seems like whoever designed the game's armour system intended. EHP is a rational function of resistance, resistance is a rational function of armour, therefore EHP is a linear function of armour. Someone went through a lot of trouble ensuring that EHP stays linear, but then the designers apparently forgot this and scaled armour anyway.

Obviously, there are issues with this approach. Enemy EHP is as ridiculous as it is now as a direct result of the ridiculous amount of damage we do. Dropping Grineer armour down into the 25-75% range across all levels would naturally make them a lot squishier. DE's usual piecemeal approach won't work here. A change like this would have to come with a rebalance of player damage. Damage buff stacking has needed a revisit for years now, and Scott McGregor seems to be aware of this.

In short, Corpus shields are not the issue. Grineer armour is.