Banshee, the most outdated Warframe of all with only one ability that is worth using; Sonar

[Mados.sys]

11 hours ago, kaotis said:

I agree she needs a rework, but i'm not a huge fan of your 4th proposal (yelow yes, red not so much) :😞

Feels 2 similar to rhino stomp what you are proposing tbh, i'd personaly opt for a insta damage system that flat out damges a room (or several ) . The damage type should be one or a mixture of: impact, blast (tecnicaly it should be a sound/shockwave themed thing)

Forgot to change the damage reduction that the user suggested for accuracy reduction since it's more fitting and makes more sense, while also greatly increasing the survival of Banshee, and the insta damage should be the augment to give an option, since right now the Sound quake augment is pretty much that, instant damage on area. (obviously it should be updated too since the range falloff is terrible and makes it harmless)

I guess the suspension can be changed for something like the current Sound quake, a more consistent stumble that is special for Banshee just so it can also affect VIP targets partially (like the Kuva Guardian) and correct the current flaws, which are enemies stumbling outside of the area, as far as it can control enemies just to allow Banshee to survive, anything could work.

5 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Most outdated, still one of the strongest.

 

Banshee, the most outdated Warframe of all with only one ability that is worth using; S o n a r

 

Thanks for clarifying what was already obvious, she still on the same state as Chroma.

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Banshee, the most outdated Warframe of all with only one ability that is worth using; S o n a r

 

Spoken like somebody that won't survive very long. Otherwise you'd appreciate her other abilities well at least two of them. They could get some tweaks though to be more up to date and practical i'm not gonna lie. I'd also wish for her 3 to have more or other effects and/or not cost as much or be recastable. 1 to have more range and cast speed and be one handed. But when i look at Zephyr "rework" which basically mostly just nerfed her by giving turbulence a longer casting animation, i'm afraid that Banshee will get reworked in a similar fashion with her sonar.

She is so outdated likely because she didn't need to be updated so urgently like other frames. Honestly? Trinity could still need some work over Banshee. Well of Life is trash, Link lost its purpose whilst healing and energy regaining methods are being covered by pads, arcanes and focus schools already.

[Mados.sys]

1 hour ago, IceColdHawk said:

Spoken like somebody that won't survive very long. Otherwise you'd appreciate her other abilities well at least two of them. They could get some tweaks though to be more up to date and practical i'm not gonna lie. I'd also wish for her 3 to have more or other effects and/or not cost as much or be recastable. 1 to have more range and cast speed and be one handed. But when i look at Zephyr "rework" which basically mostly just nerfed her by giving turbulence a longer casting animation, i'm afraid that Banshee will get reworked in a similar fashion with her sonar.

She is so outdated likely because she didn't need to be updated so urgently like other frames. Honestly? Trinity could still need some work over Banshee. Well of Life is trash, Link lost its purpose whilst healing and energy regaining methods are being covered by pads, arcanes and focus schools already.

Oh please I've been using Banshee for way too long for you to come here saying "Spoken like somebody that won't survive very long", I'm speaking as someone criticizing her extremely outdated, stiff and clunky kit after so many hours of experience. I understand that some people fear that a rework equals a potential nerf but that's not what happened with everyone else, the only thing that Banshee would get a nerf on is Sonar scaling infinite damage, you can easily deal millions of damage with the augment and stacking weakspots, that's the closest thing to a nerf.

You think she didn't need an update so urgently? Currently I can only think about 4 warframes that are so terrible that they are good at doing only one thing, ONE, or even nothing, Banshee, Excalibur, Inaros and Hydroid, and Banshee is the only one that has an ability that was meant to be used back when enemies above level 30 didn't even existed. (Silence, duh, Ivara has a noise arrow that can only be used on stealth just like Silence but at least Ivara has other 3 different arrows that can be used outside of stealth consistently.)

Banshee is just Sonar, Excalibur is just Radial Blind, Inaros is just a lot of hp, Hydroid is nothing.

Those 4 were always terrible, and you're gonna tell me that Banshee didn't need an update so urgently? those 4 should be a top priority on these days, there are other warframes that could use changes but those other at least can do 2 things right and are at least more fun to use without being extremely punished by everything. (even Trinity could be upgraded but at least she has an extremely solid healing and energy regeneration, 2/4 abilities that work, or hell, we all know that Nyx got lazy tweaks that didn't fixed her at all, but I still have a lot of fun with her, and I also can survive 100 times more than Banshee.)

[schilds]

On 2020-06-11 at 1:31 PM, Deluxe-Chimera said:

We can all agree

Disagree.

Her 1 has 100% armour strip that is more valuable now that corrosive caps out.

Her 2 is as you've said.

Her 3 helps keeps her alive. It always astonishes me how people complain that she can't survive while simultaneously dismissing her 3.

Her 4 has always been uninteresting (even when it was popular) and needs changing (preferrably to something else entirely).

 

That's not to say she doesn't need a slight buff in terms of survivability: Shield Gating, the Health Conversion + synth set combo, and Adaptation (defends against status dots and has time to kick in thanks to Health Conversion) help quite a bit, but she still takes more effort than comparable frames (and the sentinel will eventually die limiting how far she can get, though we're talking several rounds, 40+ minutes, into an arbi here so it's fine for most content).

Edited June 20, 2020 by schilds

[Mados.sys]

18 minutes ago, schilds said:

Disagree.

Her 1 has 100% armour strip that is more valuable now that corrosive caps out.

Her 2 is as you've said.

Her 3 helps keeps her alive. It always astonishes me how people complain that she can't survive while simultaneously dismissing her 3.

Her 4 has always been uninteresting (even when it was popular) and needs changing (preferrably to something else entirely).

 

That's not to say she doesn't need a slight buff in terms of survivability: Shield Gating, the Health Conversion + synth set combo, and Adaptation (defends against status dots and has time to kick in thanks to Health Conversion) help quite a bit, but she still takes more effort than comparable frames (and the sentinel will eventually die limiting how far she can get, though we're talking several rounds, 40+ minutes, into an arbi here so it's fine for most content).

Temporal armor strip that needs strength for 100% and also makes things harder because you just Fus-roh-dah every single living thing into oblivion, so it will most likely take you longer to kill something than it should, you know Vauban? our good CC boy who can strip armors super fast and permanently, who can also leave enemies suspended or group them for easy melee kills?

Oh sure, an inconsistent stun can surely help her stay alive, is not like you have to build her for negative range in order to stun enemies as much as possible, forcing Banshee to be a melee warframe, but nah we will avoid any sort of criticism and pick our swords and shield, amirite? The complains are focused on that, the fact that the ability's use is limited to Stealth and other things that I mentioned analyzing the skill.

She doesn't take any effort, Banshee is the equivalent of going full naked on Darksouls, it's just stay out of sight and exploit the hell out of the infinite Sonar stack, and please don't come at me saying "oh you don't know how to build her" because god knows how many times I had to pass through the same, the point is that she needs a rework and her kit is as old as my grandpa at this point.

By the way did you just read what I mentioned before talking about Sonic Boom or you just jumped immediately to comment?

Quote

Augments aren't taken on consideration because they should be completely optional, a Warframe shouldn't have a mandatory augment that fix the ability to actually make it work, if the ability only works with an augment then it's pretty self explanatory, THE ABILITY HAS A PROBLEM AND THE AUGMENT IS A BAND AID.

 

[schilds]

*shrug* I'm simply relating my experience, for whatever reason it's different to yours. I take her into arbis, a melee build, 30 to 40 minutes, mid (100%) power range, right in the face of all the enemies. Only ability I don't use is her 4, I might cast it at extraction as a joke 😛. I find her to be one of the best frames for high level disruption. No trouble surviving up to that point though it does become harder after that point.

Edited June 20, 2020 by schilds

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, schilds said:

 Shield Gating, the Health Conversion + synth set combo, and Adaptation (defends against status dots and has time to kick in thanks to Health Conversion) help quite a bit,

Off-topic, but do you like Health Conversion + Synth + Adaptation on her better than Rolling Guard + Adaptation?

[schilds]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

Off-topic, but do you like Health Conversion + Synth + Adaptation on her better than Rolling Guard + Adaptation?

I can't really speak to the effectiveness or otherwise of Rolling Guard. I just find it doesn't suit how I play. I roll a lot (almost a habit/reflex) so ... having to save them up or unlearn my rolling habit is a pain 😄. It's possible Rolling Guard is better at higher levels where Health + synth isn't effective (because sentinels die).

[DrivaMain]

A Warframe that only has 1 out of 4 ability worth using unless you use augments is still a badly designed frame, no matter how OP the frame is. Why are you still defending the old banshee? It's not like DE is gonna nerf Sonar into the ground. Aiming at weakspots still takes more effort than the likes of Saryn and Mesa. 

or maybe that is the reason? The fear of a sonar nerf when DE decides to touch her? Hmm? 

 

[schilds]

Have you ever thought that some people just like the gameplay?

When I want to play a squishy, high damage frame that needs to get in, do damage and get out quickly, I pick Banshee. It's FUN. Part of the fun is seeing how long I can keep her going. Her 2 is applied before closing in and provides the damage to kill things quickly. Her 3 let's her close in to do the damage. Could her 3 do with a slight buff? Maybe? Her 1 is used to crack tougher targets. Yes it needs an augment. Would I complain if the augment was folded into the ability and a new augment released? No. To my mind (obviously not yours) 3/4 of the abilities in her kit complement each other.

Her 4 is and has always been boring, even when it was considered OP, but just as I find swishing in and out fun, some people found sitting in one spot locking all enemies into their spawns while slowly whittling them down fun (there's no accounting for taste, obviously :-P).

But then, I'm that weirdo who *liked* the previous incarnation of Ember where at high levels she was basically a squishy weapon platform that used short stuns to get in close. You can see the parallels: Buffs/debuffs (accelerant, fireball frenzy) applied for high damage before closing in with brief stuns used to get close (accelerant, wof). Didn't have any specific ability to crack tough targets though, so needed to complement her kit with armour stripping on a weapon (Banshee has that on her 1, how nice). Ember also had quite a bit of unnecessary redundancy between her abilities (multiple stuns, multiple buffs/debuffs), Banshee is much cleaner in that regard. So sad Ember got changed to a tanking, armour stripping, healing, ult spammer (they just gave her everything, dead boring) right before the buff to fire status and the introduction of shield gating which, together, would have made her flaming fantastic :-P.

But hey, all you mind readers keep having fun attributing devious hidden motives to people disagreeing with you. I'm certainly not going to get in the way of your enjoyment :-P.

Edited June 20, 2020 by schilds

[Mados.sys]

4 minutes ago, schilds said:

Have you ever thought that some people just like the gameplay?

When I want to play a squishy, high damage frame that needs to get in, do damage and get out quickly, I pick Banshee. It's FUN. Part of the fun is seeing how long I can keep her going. Her 2 provides the damage to kill things quickly, her 3 let's her close in to do the damage. Could her 3 do with a slight buff? Maybe? Her 1 is used to crack tougher targets. Yes it needs an augment. Would I complain if the augment was folded into the ability and a new augment released? No. To my mind (obviously not yours) 3/4 of her kit works well together.

Her 4 is and has always been boring, even when it was considered OP, but just as I find swishing in and out fun, some people found sitting in one spot locking all enemies into their spawns while slowly whittling them down fun (there's no accounting for taste, obviously :-P).

 

But hey, all you mind readers keep having fun attributing devious hidden motives to people disagreeing with you. I'm certainly not going to get in the way of your enjoyment :-P.

We want a rework for the best, not the worst, I like her gameplay but it's terribly clunky and stiff, it could be 10 times better like the suggestion for a rework that this user gave me, that would keep her gameplay and would allow her to do many more things without taking away what makes Banshee what she is, in fact it would make her even more tactical since right now she's just Sonar, there's no way any change can make her worse than she already is.

That description would fit anyone really, I can bring a Kronen or my favorite bow, Daikyu with a super squishy frame or glasscannon, and I would be able to do exactly the same as Banshee, get in, do lots of damage and get out quickly, lots of warframe can do that without the risk of instantly dying after 2 shots and the most awful """defensive""" ability out there and with many more options that are way more interesting.

You have fun with Banshee that's for damn sure, but guess what, not everyone think the same as you do, not because I'm in love with Khora and Nyx and I have infinites amounts of fun, would mean that you would have the same experience with them, that's why this topic exist, I guess or at least I would like to think that you know why I, just like other people are criticizing Banshee.

Not everyone is gonna enjoy dying on 2 - 3 shots with no way to defend yourself but super inconsistent CC, not everyone is gonna enjoy having only one true useful ability, and certainly not everyone is gonna enjoy being forced to put 3 augments just to make her abilities work, you can have fun with her, I'm not taking that away from you, but I would like you to understand the rest of the people.

[schilds]

I do understand that different people enjoy different things. This:

On 2020-06-11 at 1:31 PM, Deluxe-Chimera said:

We can all agree ...

*cough* was how someone else began one of their comments, not me 😛.

 

If the devs happen to read this thread, I would like them to understand that there are in fact other views. There isn't a consensus, except on (maybe) the terribad state of her 4.

Edited June 20, 2020 by schilds

[IceColdHawk]

14 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

You think she didn't need an update so urgently? Currently I can only think about 4 warframes that are so terrible that they are good at doing only one thing, ONE, or even nothing, Banshee, Excalibur, Inaros and Hydroid

You forgot Ash, Atlas, Baruuk, Chroma, Ember, Garuda, Grendel, Trinity and Valkyr

All those frames could need a rework so much better than Banshee. Either because they barely have a use outside of a niche situation or they're being replaced by gear items/arcanes. Banshee takes some more effort than other frames but she gets stuff done. She can survive using her light CC and allow killing high level enemies for the whole team.  Yes, her 1 and 3 arguably could need some patchup to feel more "up to date" for using but they still get things done. Unlike other frames.

[Mados.sys]

6 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

You forgot Ash, Atlas, Baruuk, Chroma, Ember, Garuda, Grendel, Trinity and Valkyr

All those frames could need a rework so much better than Banshee. Either because they barely have a use outside of a niche situation or they're being replaced by gear items/arcanes. Banshee takes some more effort than other frames but she gets stuff done. She can survive using her light CC and allow killing high level enemies for the whole team.  Yes, her 1 and 3 arguably could need some patchup to feel more "up to date" for using but they still get things done. Unlike other frames.

Yeah I forgot Ash there, but compared to Banshee at least the dude can bleed to death anything with BS and have a perfect synergy with Trickery and Ultimatum, while also having a really cool passive, increasing the damage and duration of slash procs which are the best procs in the game and personally my favorite, that's still 2/5 vs the 1/5 that Banshee has.

Atlas is 3.5/5, you haven't even played Baruuk, Chroma is 2/5, you haven't even played Ember, everything works in Garuda and she can literally instakill any level from 1 to 10.000, Grendel works pretty damn well, Trinity is 3/5, Valkyr is 2.5/5.

Not all of them need a rework, they aren't in a terrible state as Banshee and besides EMBER ALREADY GOT A REWORK FOR GOD SAKE, she's as good as she can get, the most that you'll see from her are small tweaks to the 1st and 2nd, fire ball increasing the gauge charge super quickly and from which making it tricky to use if you don't want to spend too much energy, and the immolation gauge being able to stack an infinite amount of speed charge, that's it.

The only ones on that list would be Ash, Atlas, Chroma, Trinity and Valkyr, and even then I'm gonna mention it yet again, they aren't in a terrible state as Banshee, they are bad that's for damn sure (I personally don't even think Atlas is bad, he's super powerful and tanky but still could use changes) but at least can use more than 1 ability you know? Unlike old lady-Banshee who can only use A SINGLE ABILITY and is forced to use augments if she wants to give use to the rest.

12 hours ago, schilds said:

I do understand that different people enjoy different things. This:

*cough* was how someone else began one of their comments, not me 😛.

 

If the devs happen to read this thread, I would like them to understand that there are in fact other views. There isn't a consensus, except on (maybe) the terribad state of her 4.

 

Quote

We can all agree that Banshee is not excellent by any means, her kit is so shockingly outdated to the point that NOTHING has changed since her implementation as far as I know

Ya want to keep taking those first 4 words out of context son? I said it for a reason, if Banshee was excellent, the passive, Silence and Sound Quake would work perfectly for almost anything and not only stealth or level fetus enemies (a.k.a. level 1 - 20), oh but guess what, THEY DON'T.

They won't read it, you and I just wish but the fact that warframes like Banshee, Excalibur and Valkyr are still as bad as they were pretty much shows how much they engage with criticism and suggestions.

[schilds]

Well I don't agree. I said that straight up and it's clearly stuck in your craw and been the prism through which you've conversed with me ever since. It's you, not me who is struggling with the idea that not everyone thinks the way you do or enjoys the things you do. 

I suggest that you take your own advice.

Edited June 20, 2020 by schilds

[IceColdHawk]

44 minutes ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

at least the dude can bleed to death anything with BS

Good meme. "anything". By the time you marked enemies and let off BS, i already mowed them over.

56 minutes ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Atlas is 3.5/50

Fixed that for you.

53 minutes ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

you haven't even played Baruuk

Leveled and tried him enough to see that he's not worth my time. Disarming single enemies yooo.. and people call Loki bad. Or sleeping enemies that wake up after a single tick of damage + LoS restriction. Wow so good. Oh and let's not forget his magic hands that can smack enemies from many meters afar...too bad it requires using his other abilities to fill a "meter" when Mesa can just spray ahead.

58 minutes ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

you haven't even played Ember

Damn right i haven't.

 /s

55 minutes ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

everything works in Garuda

Yes, but nothing is of use. Your point?

55 minutes ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

and she can literally instakill any level from 1 to 10.000

So can my Kronen Prime, after recent enemy scaling changes 

 

56 minutes ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

EMBER ALREADY GOT A REWORK FOR GOD SAKE, she's as good as she can get

What's she good for again? Losing her 2 best abilities for some new mediocre ones. Best rework ever my dude. Attacking enemies with LoS restriction and no scaling damage either. She does damage and not a lot of it. Other frames nuke better and/or deal more damage. And again getting the "have to fill up a meter to do somewhat well" treatment. Lame. At least Gauss can justify it through being a strong allrounder.

Banshee is the best boss nuker. She can nuke liches so hard, you skip through stab animations and glitch the hell out of it. She can allow the team to pop level cap enemies like flies and she can go out alone and defend herself using her CC abilities. She can also keep enemies away using soundquake when needed e.G mobile defenses. For someone that has supposedly played Banshee for so long, it's kinda worrying to see you give her such little credit.

And i wanna end it with a video that shows what she can do when played correctly. Not every frame is as numb as inaros. Some require more effort and imho, Banshee fills the glass cannon role super well.

Spoiler

 

 

[DrivaMain]

31 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Banshee is the best boss nuker.

Eidolons and Profit Taker : I am gonna stop you right there.

We all say Banshee is bad because she relies too much on augments and 1,3,4 is pretty lackluster. 1 deals pitiful damage and useless without the augment, her 3 costs too much energy and the audio can disrupt player hearing which can be annoying especially in Disruption, her 4 has been nerfed to oblivion and useless in high level and she is very vulnerable when channeling soundquake.

[Andy.]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb DrivaMain:

Eidolons and Profit Taker : I am gonna stop you right there.

> Comparing a Frame that relies on Abilities which affect thier Target against Bosses that are immune to Abilities. Good job mate.

No warframe is good/best at everything.

Edited June 20, 2020 by --Q--Candy

[DrivaMain]

30 minutes ago, --Q--Candy said:

> Comparing a Frame that relies on Abilities which affect thier Target against Bosses that are immune to Abilities. Good job mate.

No warframe is good/best at everything.

Sooner or later they will phase out ability immunities on those Raid bosses (DE Scott shows interest on the removal). Will Banshee be the new pre nerf Chroma meta I wonder, she can reach ridiculous damage with her Sonar and we all know DE’s well known knee jerk reactions will put Banshee’s current viability in danger.

[Tiltskillet]

35 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

and the audio can disrupt player hearing which can be annoying especially in Disruption

Settings issue, maybe?  I don't have that problem with the demolyst warning.  It's muffled, but I don't have trouble picking it out over the rest of the muffled sound mix.  Similar deal with the cache proximity sound, which I just did with her this week for the Nightwave challenge. 

In general though, I do think the audio effect of Silence should be reduced.  I like it pretty well as is, but I'd bet it's uncomfortable for some players.   I'd -prefer- it was toned down rather than eliminated, but the latter wouldn't be a profound loss as long as it was replaced with another useful audio cue.  A submarine sonar sound would be pretty funny.

 

[Mados.sys]

On 2020-06-20 at 6:06 PM, IceColdHawk said:

Good meme. "anything". By the time you marked enemies and let off BS, i already mowed them over.

Fixed that for you.

By the time I marked them you would have still been processing that there were enemies to begin with, this isn't a competition, Ash can kill enemies with 0 issue whatsoever, can he kill them super fast? subjective, for me it kills small crowds really fast, but I'm not gonna defend him anyways, he needs changes since his only useful ability is BS. (Some of you people could use this way of thinking from time to time instead of going straight RREE mode.)

The 5 represents the 4 abilities of the warframe including it's passive, Atlas can punch anything to dead, petrify almost anyone for good CC and combine with his passive for a super efficient health regeneration and extra armor for even more tankiness, that's 3/5, the 0.5 extra is the 2nd ability because it can protect anything inside of it like Frost's snow globe, but it just works half way because of how small it is and it's just a single wall, compare that to Banshee which only works for Sonar, she's basically 1.5/5 at the most.

On 2020-06-20 at 6:06 PM, IceColdHawk said:

Leveled and tried him enough to see that he's not worth my time. Disarming single enemies yooo.. and people call Loki bad. Or sleeping enemies that wake up after a single tick of damage + LoS restriction. Wow so good. Oh and let's not forget his magic hands that can smack enemies from many meters afar...too bad it requires using his other abilities to fill a "meter" when Mesa can just spray ahead.

1st is restrain charge, 2nd is good CC, 3rd is damage reduction for you and your teammates / companions and 4th is super fists of fury, 1 2 and 3 charge his restrain, I don't see anything wrong with that.

Restrain exists for a reason and it's because of Mesa and Excalibur abuse, can you imagine not having restrain and every single Baruuk is just spamming Serene storm like a complete brainlet just like Excaliburs do? nah bro, Restrain at least compensates Baruuk, it makes him use his abilities for supporting his teammates and to control enemies instead of making him exclusively a press 4 to win, you can't press 4 unless you're playing him the way he was intended to.

Mesa and Excalibur should learn from him, specially Excalibur. The worst starter and one of the worst warframes by far.

On 2020-06-20 at 6:06 PM, IceColdHawk said:

Damn right i haven't.

What's she good for again? Losing her 2 best abilities for some new mediocre ones. Best rework ever my dude. Attacking enemies with LoS restriction and no scaling damage either. She does damage and not a lot of it. Other frames nuke better and/or deal more damage. And again getting the "have to fill up a meter to do somewhat well" treatment. Lame. At least Gauss can justify it through being a strong allrounder.

Mhm... that speaks by itself, that 0.8% was just build up for World on fire, probably back when it was still press 4 to win, and you didn't even tested the rework.

She can remove the armor from whole rooms, can build up her strength almost indefinitely with the amount of fire procs she can do, she has a good damage reduction and the new 4th ability is super satisfying and useful while also doing what World on fire did, but more balanced and way more comfortable.

You just want a warframe that can instakill whole rooms in a single blink, that's a you problem.

On 2020-06-20 at 6:06 PM, IceColdHawk said:

Yes, but nothing is of use. Your point?

So can my Kronen Prime, after recent enemy scaling changes 

Again all of her abilities work as they were intended to, if you don't want to accept it because A) You're blind or B) You have never touched her, it's not my problem, I'm not gonna argue with someone that can't think twice about a Warframe's performance if it can't nuke maps. (Besides Dread Mirror with Seeking talons, almost no one can kill things a consistent as she can)

I would love to see your Kronen Prime killing 20 level 170 Officers with 20 of their turrets with the AI enabled in less than 3 seconds, I'll wait.

On 2020-06-20 at 6:06 PM, IceColdHawk said:

Banshee is the best boss nuker. She can nuke liches so hard, you skip through stab animations and glitch the hell out of it. She can allow the team to pop level cap enemies like flies and she can go out alone and defend herself using her CC abilities. She can also keep enemies away using soundquake when needed e.G mobile defenses. For someone that has supposedly played Banshee for so long, it's kinda worrying to see you give her such little credit.

And i wanna end it with a video that shows what she can do when played correctly. Not every frame is as numb as inaros. Some require more effort and imho, Banshee fills the glass cannon role super well.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I'm legit getting tired of people linking this same video over and over to "prove me wrong", that I don't know how to build banshee and she's the best Warframe, it shows how a single partner can easily brainwash people that can't think by themselves, making them defend an obviously bad warframe.

You can also nuke Liches with a kronen prime, killing a level 5 lich is as easy as killing the Shadow Stalker on level 100 you know? that's nothing special, also all the bosses in Warframe are so shockingly weak that you can also nuke them with any weapon, with or without banshee I could rush any level 100 boss like a speedrunner, just give me an Arca Titron, a Dragon Nikana, even a Gunsen, maybe a Vulkar Wraith, I could still do what Banshee does but with way better options.

What CC abilities? Sonic boom? you mean the super CC inconsistent Sonic Boom that has a limited arc and just stuns enemies for a short period while also spreading them all around? THAT CC? or maybe Silence? the also super inconsistent CC that only stuns enemies for around 2 seconds A SINGLE TIME and has to be reset by getting enemies out and in of your range? YIKES.

I don't main the hell out of Mobile Defenses and I doubt anyone does, and if I was dumb enough to want to stay AFK the whole match (you know, trying to avoid PLAYING THE GAME) I could just bring Hydroid and stay underwater while also not having the risk of getting instakilled, or instead I could just bring Limbo and keep everything on stasis, that also prevents the risk of getting instakilled outside of his range, unlike Banshee, I give credit when a particular thing deserves it, and Banshee doesn't.

That video also shows that Banshee is Sonar and nothing else, come on you have a brain, I know you can use it and solve 1+1, but just in case that you can't:

• Sonic Boom still has no use
• Spamming sonar because it's the only thing work using
• The dude buildt a -range banshee just to abuse the Silence stun, making it a melee range ability, also range affects everything else negatively
• Sound quake still has no use
• Passive is still useless
• 2 mandatory mods for her survival

Are you still going to white knight banshee even with that on mind? for the love of god, 4 abilities are still almost absolutely useless and only Sonar works because of the infinite damage scale, that's it, is as simple as that, how hard it is to accept the fact and say "Huh Banshee is indeed pretty outdated, she could use some changes that could make her kit way better"?.

[IceColdHawk]

1 hour ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Mhm... that speaks by itself, that 0.8% was just build up for World on fire, probably back when it was still press 4 to win, and you didn't even tested the rework.

She can remove the armor from whole rooms, can build up her strength almost indefinitely with the amount of fire procs she can do, she has a good damage reduction and the new 4th ability is super satisfying and useful while also doing what World on fire did, but more balanced and way more comfortable.

Oh because she got some damage reduction ability thrown into her kit, taking her best ability out which was accelerant, she suddenly becomes good? Yea let's give every frame DR that'll make them good xD. The rest of her abilities all deal some damage. And not even an impressive lot. She lost her niche as clearing exterminates and defenses with low effort and she also lost her fire buffer role. But hey, at least her new 4 looks cool amirite?

Armor removal isn't necessary anymore now that enemies have got such low amounts of hp that slash procs just tear through them.

1 hour ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Mhm... that speaks by itself, that 0.8% was just build up for World on fire, probably back when it was still press 4 to win, and you didn't even tested the rework.

She can remove the armor from whole rooms, can build up her strength almost indefinitely with the amount of fire procs she can do, she has a good damage reduction and the new 4th ability is super satisfying and useful while also doing what World on fire did, but more balanced and way more comfortable.

Ahahaha citation needed.. Do you honestly think i'd put effort into teaching you what Banshee is good for if i only cared about "instakill whole room" frames? Last time i checked, you were the one to defend frames that have AoE potential. Don't strawman me, it won't help your case.

1 hour ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Again all of her abilities work as they were intended to

So do Banshee's abilities. I think the last time i saw a Garuda in my session was when she was new and everyone leveled her. Makes you wonder why. Except i know why.

1 hour ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

I would love to see your Kronen Prime killing 20 level 170 Officers with 20 of their turrets with the AI enabled in less than 3 seconds, I'll wait.

I would love to see you survive with Garuda against all these officers. With Banshee i enter radius, they're stunned by silence, i cast sonar twice, then bash away with sonic boom, cast once or twice more and clap them away. But only those that can look past "OMG SONAR IS THE ONLY GOOD ABILITY!111" will understand.

1 hour ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

I'm legit getting tired of people linking this same video over and over to "prove me wrong", that I don't know how to build banshee and she's the best Warframe, it shows how a single partner can easily brainwash people that can't think by themselves, making them defend an obviously bad warframe.

Just because you don't want to accept facts, doesn't mean they don't exist. What more do you want from a frame? And by the way, Relentless Zen is and was no warframe partner.

1 hour ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

What CC abilities? Sonic boom? you mean the super CC inconsistent Sonic Boom that has a limited arc and just stuns enemies for a short period while also spreading them all around? THAT CC? or maybe Silence? the also super inconsistent CC that only stuns enemies for around 2 seconds A SINGLE TIME and has to be reset by getting enemies out and in of your range? YIKES.

Ever heard the difference between soft and hard cc? Ever thought about how soft cc is used for other purposes than freezing enemies for 20+ seconds? Imagine if Banshee had avalanche in her kit on top of the sonar. The new war would end before it can begin.

1 hour ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

I don't main the hell out of Mobile Defenses and I doubt anyone does, and if I was dumb enough to want to stay AFK the whole match (you know, trying to avoid PLAYING THE GAME) I could just bring Hydroid and stay underwater while also not having the risk of getting instakilled, or instead I could just bring Limbo and keep everything on stasis, that also prevents the risk of getting instakilled outside of his range, unlike Banshee, I give credit when a particular thing deserves it, and Banshee doesn't.

Fine i'll let you have this one. Soundquake isn't the best designed ability out there. But it does have it's niche uses. And i can't say that just because of Limbo being overly OP in terms of defense, that Banshee is the "most outdated".

1 hour ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Are you still going to white knight explain banshee even with that on mind?

Yes.

1 hour ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

how hard it is to accept the fact and say "Huh Banshee is indeed pretty outdated, she could use some changes that could make her kit way better"?.

Sometimes you people really gotta learn to watch what you're asking for. Looking at the last recent "reworks", i have no faith in Banshee becoming any better. Probably even worse. And she isn't in need of risking that.

Edited June 28, 2020 by IceColdHawk

[taiiat]

• can we stop it with the wrong Impact Damage Memes. it's not Puncture but it's also not Slash, Impact is a decent IPS Type vs Armored Enemies. Slash is horrifically garbage vs Armored Enemies. so it's not that Impact is bad, it's just neutral, or otherwise known as decent.
  • in other words complaining about Impact is pretty ridiculous since vs Armored Enemies it's basically identical to Toxin, Fire, close to Blast, close to Ice.
• stop being ignorant about Silence. it has uses, it even has an Augment that makes that trait even stronger. it's a relevant use of an Ability, it's just not an instant win button.
  it's okay for Abilities to offer features that make you think and plan on how to use them and Mod for them. that's how you get interesting Abilities anyways, instead of just AoE spams that you AFK with.

anyways, now that the ignorance that doesn't help anything or anyone is dealt with.

 

i, really want Banshee to re-capitalize on Sonar being the way the Warframe does Damage. i even want the direct Damage Abilities to be fairly weak on their own, but Sonar being the tool to make your Abilities and your Weapons perform greatly.
as it is now, spamming Sonar especially with Resonance is probably the most fun way to Kill Enemies with Banshee - stacking the Damage Multiplier to get overlaps and then watching Abilities that normally just scratch things, to delete them. i have greatly enjoyed doing just that, spamming Sonar for a bit then watching a single tick of vanilla Sound Quake hitting for 6 digits. 

- but, i want to change the way Sonar works to make this a direct feature of the Warframe, rather than something Banshee got by accident. i want Sonar to be based around the idea of stacking the weakpoints in the first place. because that's just more fun in this type of game, frankly.
- what that ends up meaning is having a much shorter Cast, costing less per Cast, and the Ability itself having some features supporting that like Sonar bouncing off the walls and reapplying to Enemies (the PFX for Prime even cosmetically imply this already, make it real!). to account for that each weakpoint instance would have to be weaker, but that's more than fine since stacking would be an intended part of the Ability. reducing the base from 5x to 1.75x would still perform great so long as stacking this became more practical and so didn't take so much time and effort (and Energy for that matter) to do so.
- bouncing off of walls can be done via making the Ability actually shoot a 'Projectile' of sorts via a column that applies Sonar to Enemies it hits, that will bounce off of any surfaces it hits for the Duration of the Ability. something like 5 Meters wide would be generous enough, and then the Ability currently lasts 30 Seconds so.... have that column bounce off of Walls for 30 or maybe 15 Seconds. if it traveled at ~80m/s it would be fast enough to get stuff done while still being something you can watch with some popcorn. yes, recasting would mean creating multiple columns.
- bonus points if subsequent weakpoints gained strength by landing on the same spot as an existing one, to even further reinforce that. like 1.25x extra Multiplier(final Multiplier to that Sonar dot, non Mod scaling) if it lands on an existing Sonar dot.

also un-nerf the Sonar Augment so that it allows stacking again, since it was nerfed a long while ago to specifically not put Sonar dots on top of existing ones.

 

so then that lets Sonic Boom on its own be CC, but if you blitz Enemies with Sonar, becomes Damage.
yes make Sonic Boom a one hand Cast, it's the status quo of most non major Abilities thesedays.

like most generic AoE blasts, Sound Quake just needs to go back to the drawing board. it's mechanically boring by design by just fundamentally being boring.

Silence is weird for sure, but weird isn't horrible necessarily. i'm not sure what i'd want to change about that to mesh with the rest of the Abilities better. i would shave the Cost down and try to make it a little less jank to use, though.

Edited June 29, 2020 by taiiat

[Tiltskillet]

15 hours ago, taiiat said:

also un-nerf the Sonar Augment so that it allows stacking again, since it was nerfed a long while ago to specifically not put Sonar dots on top of existing ones.

Did not know this!  Do you know how it works?  If it rolls a body part that's already affected, is the effect ignored?  Or as long as there are uncovered bodyparts, is Resonance guaranteed to affect one of those? 

And once a whole enemy is covered, still no overlap?

If it always affects something,  it still seems like a great augment to me, even with the cooldown.    Want lots of coverage fast, with sweet, sweet overlap?  Recast.  Want lots of coverage with minimal energy cost and no recast time that allies can propagate too?  Just let Resonance do its thing.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Man this is a headache.  People really be arguing over chosen words here over missing the point:

To the people disagreeing with op: Their entire point is that Banshee regardless of performance or capability is very out dated in terms of mechanics.  They'd like the kit to be refreshed so it works closer to today's frames on a mechanical level whilst potentially including benefits from newer kits.

To the op:  The push back here is two parts.  Both that Banshee is a crowd favorite from the old days and that Banshee worked "fine" before.  Thus changing her now further pushes the idea that the frame isn't the problem but the game itself changing to be different than how it used to be.

 

While no frame has been nerfed into nonexistence from reworks there is evidence to prove reworks/updates have stripped away some elder knowledge level of interactions that people liked.  Some examples would be Ember's accelerant and how it interacted with enemies to help your damage, Nyx's chaos being able to have multiple instances, etc.  So the fear is more that Banshee will lose her charm to some capacity regardless of how she gets updated.  This is a completely valid feeling to have.

But I still would like to see her be updated.  Nyx may not be the same for me anymore but she's still functional and still does some good things.  Just not what I want from her.