Banshee, the most outdated Warframe of all with only one ability that is worth using; Sonar

[Mados.sys]

We can all agree that Banshee is not excellent by any means, her kit is so shockingly outdated to the point that NOTHING has changed since her implementation as far as I know, everything works exactly the same and the few changes were just extra FX, Silence was an ability that people would only use in stealth back in the day when it wasn't so terribly broken to the point were if you don't bring an invisible Warframe, you're always going to instantly get spotted by a Roller or Ospreys which have no detection delay, the moment they see you, the moment the whole ship gets on maximum alert and already know your location telepathically, stealth is so broken that it also needs a revisit, but that's for another day. (Railjack indirectly introduces a solution, the ships have a detect meter, it would be as simple as implementing that into the normal enemies and allowing us to front finish them if they aren't alerted yet)

Now the main topic, Banshee, I know she can scale an infinite amount of damage with Sonar to the point were it's ridiculous but come on, if you have more than 2 braincells and you also aren't just a silly White Knight willing to defend anyone for no reason whatsoever, you would admit than Banshee is only good for that, damage buff, she's no different than Chroma, but in fact even Chroma could be better because at least he's tanky and has a more solid CC.

Sonic Boom? just panic CC, Sonar? excellent damage buff, Silence? slight CC with no other benefit outside of stealth, Sound quake? the weakest "ultimate" ability I believe and it locks you on place for a not so consistent CC, the second one being Hydroid's, at least he does true damage.

I'm gonna analise all of her abilities in a critical way (duh) and show pretty much why I believe Banshee is one of the 4 worst Warframes in the whole game, and before starting I always have to remark this just in case:

Augments aren't taken on consideration because they should be completely optional, a Warframe shouldn't have a mandatory augment that fix the ability to actually make it work, if the ability only works with an augment then it's pretty self explanatory, THE ABILITY HAS A PROBLEM AND THE AUGMENT IS A BAND AID.

This is worth remarking because Banshee's whole kit is composed of Band aids, it's ridiculous.

 

Sonic Boom

"With enough force to incapacitate or KILL attackers" ha... ha... what a funny joke.

With 50 damage all you're going to be able to kill is a level 10 enemy and even then you're going to struggle, I believe than the mk1 braton can do way more damage than Sonic boom, it's also Impact damage so it's not exactly the best type of damage against the enemies that we are facing 70% of the time; Grineers.

The CC is decent because it ragdolls enemies and push them but that's about it, it's just a panic button which is only fixed by the Augment which reduces the armor for a limited time, and it's also contradictory because if you're removing armor, then that should be your chance to kill them quickly, instead what Banshee does is remove the armor and push all of the enemies far away from you making them harder to kill.

• Advantages

1. Ragdoll and push enemies away, panic button
2. Decent range with a decent 180° cone radius
3. Can kill enemies if they are pushed outside of the map or in a location were they can't stand up (like over some boxes that enemies aren't suppose to be in, after a few second the enemy dies)

• De-advantages

1. Slow cast speed of 0.8 seconds
2. Whole body animation (basically you can't do anything while it's casting)
3. Terrible damage
4. *extra* Doesn't synergies well with the augment

 

Sonar

I don't have anything to say about Sonar, we all like it as it is and it works properly, it's the best damage buff and it can scale to an almost infinite amount, the augment helps keeping it consistent while also making it completely optional.

 

Silence

Is this thing even worth 75 energy...?

Silence has no real use, period.

The only people that is crazy enough to defend Silence are again, the white knights that can't take the slightest amount of criticism without crying out loud about it, they defend it saying that "Hurr you don't know how to build Banshee" and their so called "pro build" consist of a Banshee with low range that can abuse the stun... okay? Good job dude, you absolutely destroyed the main purpose of Sonar just to do a CC that literally anyone else can do 10 times better.

Silence only works on stealth and even then half of the time it doesn't because some enemies can still get alerted even when they are affected by it, making it potentially useless, and again if a Roller or Osprey detects you, the whole ships is alerted despite having a max range Silence, personal experience.

It's also worth noting that just like Sonic Boom, Savage Silence also doesn't work properly as an augment, since you can ONLY finish enemies when they are stunned, afterwards you are incapable of finishing them unless you're using other methods such as Naramon.

• Advantages
  1. Enemies are stunned when they get in range
• De-advantages

1. High energy cost
2. Single stun, to stun an enemy again you have to get them out of your range
3. Inconsistent stun duration (the animations can be shorter or longer)
4. Main function is only available on Stealth missions (delayed / removed reaction to damage)
5. Leaves you almost deaf, making it harder to hear stuff (A huge problem in Disruption since you can only hear demolysts, for some reason they are no longer marked even if they are right behind you)
6. *extra* Savage Silence only works during the stun

 

Sound Quake

By far potentially the WORST ultimate ability in the whole game, I really doubt there's any other that is just as terrible, some Warframes can give invincibility, heal a lot, do a massive amount of damage, CC almost the whole map, do a tremendous AoE, and what does Banshee has? 200 Blast damage per second with a huge energy cost, while also locking her on place.

The only ability that can compare itself to how bad it is on DAMAGE would be Inaros Scarabs, they do the lowest amount of damage despite being Corrosive but at least the CC is solid and it heals. (I'm not even defending Inaros here, he's part of those 4 worst warframes too.)

The only good reason to use Sound Quake was when the augment was absolutely broken, being capable of increase the damage and range immensely but that was nerfed for good reasons, and instead they gave us an augment that was just as terrible as sounds quake,reducing the damage the further it travels, effectively doing absolutely nothing over a certain amount of range despite having a lot of range and strength.

• Advantages

1. Constant stun

• De-advantages

1. Huge energy drain
2. Terrible damage and a mediocre damage type
3. Enemies can stumble outside of the range
4. Locks you in place, extremely dangerous for enemies that cannot be stunned or enemies out of range
5. Slow cast speed of 1 solid second when casting and de-activating (if you didn't die  when you were locked, when you are locked de-activating you surely will)

 

Passive

Just as useful as Silence, only works on stealth and nothing else, and it's also pretty silly because Silence already makes enemies unable to listen to your guns so what's the point?

 

I guess with all of that we can all agree that Banshee has nothing to offer besides Sonar, and yet some White Knights are still willing to defend her for the most unrealistic reasons possible, but well, some people never learn and I'm pretty sure we all know that very well, I really like Banshee being based on stealth and sound, but I definitely think she needs a lot of changes, her kit is composed out of terrible band aids, she has no survival capabilities whatsoever, her CC is mediocre or just bad, she's extremely outdated, and again, the only thing worth using is Sonar.

I hope most of you people can actually think about criticism and give some good feedback or a good way that Banshee could be changed, the easiest and laziest way to fix her that I can think of is making Silence an ability that massively reduces enemy accuracy and Sonic Boom + Sound Quake can be constantly benefit from Sonar. (They are currently but you have to hit them in the right spot and that's almost impossible, for Sound quake the weak spots HAVE to spawn right on their feet)

Think about this... x5 extra damage base, 2 - 3 weakspots, x15 damage for Sound Quake and Sonic Boom without mods, that would mean that Sonic boom would deal 750 damage and Sound Quake 3000 per tic, pretty cool huh? Now add some strength and see the numbers raise even further with a single cast, with one more that means x2 of that damage and so on.

 

Edit: Vexx757 gave a great rework idea that I want to put here just so people can also check it and see if they agree, I personally love it and I feel like this can give Banshee new life while also making all of her abilities worth using, which is the most important thing because well, as I already specified in the post, the only thing worth using in her kit is Sonar at the end of the day, and it's the only true reason as to why people use her.

 

Spoiler

 

NEW Passive: Depending on the level of noise in the environment will determine the weapons and abilities performance. (it synergies with her other abilities too, just keep reading)

·       There is a sound indicator showing the volume level of noise.

·       If there is no sound, weapons will be silenced.

·       If there is noise in the environment, her ability strength will increase based on the level of noise.

·       Sounds that Banshee makes does not add to the volume gauge.

 

1^st ability:

·       Enemies hit will receive a 30% slower knockdown recovery.

·       Enemies that hit a hard surface will take more damage.

·       It can reflect projectile weapons back at enemies.

·       Can be used on the move.

·       Can break breakable objects.

 

2^nd ability:

·       Can be used on the move.

·       (Synergy) Enemies affected take increase damage from her 1^st and 4^th ability.

 

3^rd ability:

·       Enemies will notice you within a 10m of their vision.

·       Enemies will have a slower reaction time when noticing you (if you stand in front of them it will take them 3 seconds until they react to your presents)

·       If you hold the ability, you can control how far the ability reaches based on how much range it has.

·       Show the radius of the ability.

·       Put an indicator above enemies’ head to show how quickly they will be alerted by seeing you. (like stealth games)

·       If enemies are alerted, casting this ability will revert them back to being un-alerted however they will still be alerted if the alarms are on or if you are in their sights.

·       Can be used on the move.

·       Remove muffled sound and instead increase the volume of the noises that enemies make, making her aware of enemies’ position (wearing headphones will increase the usefulness of this ability).

·       (Synergy) If you use after casting the 2nd ability, you can see enemies through walls. It will also give you 4.0 punch-through on weapons. (can be increased by strength mods)

 

4^th Ability:

·       Increase cast speed.

·       Enemies will be suspended in the air.

·       After being cast, you can now move around while active.

·       It drains 6 energy a second.

·       After deactivation, enemies will have their accuracy reduced. (around 50% or more, Nyx with her passive can still survive a lot, so Banshee having something similar would be better, and it makes sense that after the massive sound quake, they'll be stumbling and having it harder to hear and aim)

·       Can break breakable objects.

·       (Synergy) because this makes continues noise, the volume gauge will be at its highest as long as the ability is active.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Deluxe-Chimera
Added rework suggestion

[NoLazyShadow]

Цитата

Banshee, the most outdated Warframe of all

One word: Valkyr.

[Els236]

il y a 4 minutes, NoLazyShadow a dit :

One word: Valkyr.

Really? That huge thread and the one thing you do is "hurr durr, this other frame is worse"? 

Also, Banshee IS older than Valkyr, albeit by a few months and Valkyr has at least 2 abilities that are worth something; not to mention if we're comparing 4th abilities, Valkyr blows Banshee out of the Orbiter.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Els236

[Els236]

Nice to see another thread from you @Deluxe-Chimera !

Yet again, I can't disagree with anything you're saying 🙂 

 

 

[(XBOX)SirMilkfiend]

A good quick fix would be if Silence was active then to have Sonic Boom reapply the stun instead of knockback. Her passive needs a change and Sound Quake too tho I'm not sure how that should change.

[Bipp]

While I agree I think you're underestimating the value Silence has in stealth levelling which is honestly just fine. However, what I don't like is this aspect of the ability only working properly with an augment.

I don't really want to see her passive changed because it functions well for stealth levelling, but then I use Silence for that anyway so it really defeats the purpose. But then there are times when there's few enemies spread out such that killing each one won't alert the others and I can save an ability cast. Big thonk tbh

the rest of it is indeed big lol. Resonating quake with something like 250% strength literally cannot kill even level 70 corpus at point blank range because their shields literally regenerate faster than you can put out the damage. Well... you kinda can if you have natural talent but that makes the previous fact less impactful. I mean you're gonna run NT for a reso quake spam build anyway, right?

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Bipp

[Artekkor]

While i disagree with the somewhat agressive tone of the OP - i'll have to agree that banshee is by far one of the most outdated warframes in the game together with Zephyr.

Her abilities, while useful in some extremely specific curcumstances, are by and large outclassed by a whole bunch of far superior warframes. There are warframes that can crowd control better, deal more damage and use less energy while at it.

She might need a rework in the same style as Ember and Saryn - better abilities that synergize and feed of each other to a devastating effect.
Until then i literally forgot that she exists. I haven't seen one in a 60+ level games in a looooong time.

[Mados.sys]

3 hours ago, NoLazyShadow said:

One word: Valkyr.

Well Valkyr's Hysteria is way different compared to what it was when she was introduces but I'm not disagreeing with you in a way since the absurd nerfs that Valkyr got are still active and ruining Hysteria in a way, like the damage absorption, that weird nerf were she charges the damage that she receives during Hysteria and if she de-activates Hysteria in the range of an enemy, all the damage that she charges is deflected... I always thought that was absurd and illogical, and it's still active even to this day.

Want to know the funny thing about that nerf? even if you charge 10 millions on damage, all it's absorbed by shield gating.

So yeah, Valkyr is outdated and should receive better changes, but compared to Banshee... Banshee is a fossil, the only thing that changed about her is Sound quake from duration to channeling.

I want to make a topic about Valkyr too someday, but right now I have my 4 priorities; Excalibur, Banshee, Inaros and Hydroid.

Valkyr is in a bad state but those 4... damn, they are the worst of the worst I believe since they can just do 1 thing right, or 0 in the case of Hydroid.

Edited June 11, 2020 by LascarCapable

[LascarCapable]

Thread cleaned. I also removed that part in the OP that was just openly dismissive towards disapproving posts.

[NoLazyShadow]

Только что, Deluxe-Chimera сказал:

I want to make a topic about Valkyr too someday, but right now I have my 4 priorities; Excalibur, Banshee, Inaros and Hydroid.

I used to talk about Valkyr a lot. People kept telling that she's 'fine'. But why Exal is bad? Maybe we should move this conversation somewhere else if we want to continue

[Stonehenge]

Banshee, the most outdated Warframe of all with only one ability that is worth using; Sonar

 

Scuse me sir :

You are welcome. (Just a suggestion.)

Edited June 11, 2020 by Stonehenge

[Matak-FR]

il y a 18 minutes, Stonehenge a dit :

Banshee, the most outdated Warframe of all with only one ability that is worth using; Sonar

 

Scuse me sir :

You are welcome. (Just a suggestion.)

 

Of course you can do late endgame with this frame, but she still have more than 50% of her kit useless like OP say, this video confirm this fact, as you can see this player have absolute 0 reason to ever use his 1 or 4, or get benefice from her passive.

[TheGrimCorsair]

The only people here stupid enough to call Silence bad are, well, see the fifth word of this sentence. For 75 power you get an incredibly long lasting, infinitely refreshable, completely hands-free stun that gives you more than enough time to move around killing anything you want with virtual impunity. Savage Silence works perfectly fine as the point is to kill the enemy when they've vulnerable from the stun in the first place, rewarding swift action and forward momentum over just chaining invincible finishers all day long like you're some kind of discount Ivara. The only problem with the skill is that it, like Sonar and Sonic Boom, is a fully body cast and would better fit Banshee's playstyle if, like Ash's 2, it did not interrupt movement. In fact, for her first 3 powers, that's really all she needs.

Banshee's 1 should be a one-handed cast that no longer interrupts reloading or movement.

Banshee's 2 and 3 should be upper body locked casts that still enable parkour and movement.

Her 4 is a tool for providing CC support when you aren't going to be doing the majority of the killing, and tbh, in any group, a Banshee that is pulling down the majority of kills and damage in a team means the team is not at all pulling its weight.

Oh, and her 2 is both going to get nerfed and needs to be nerfed as exponential stacking damage amplification is basically impossible to control for a big part of why she's frozen out of most major boss content despite being the number one support DPS in the game.

Oh yeah, and her Silence weapons+Silence bubble? Means when fighting groups of enemies by moving past them, they continue shooting your generally much tougher friends and never react to your attacks, as well as not drawing attention/aggro from targets that are outside of Silence's bubble and not facing you.

[BloodKitten]

banshee is the frame you want for mastery test 9 and using gunblades though.

[TheGrimCorsair]

Just now, Matak-FR said:

 

Of course you can do late endgame with this frame, but she still have more than 50% of her kit useless like OP say, this video confirm this fact, as you can see this player have absolute 0 reason to ever use his 1 or 4, or get benefice from her passive.

You talking is proof you should stop talking. Not every warframe needs to be a machine that you faceroll all the power buttons constantly to be useful, and doesn't mean that her 1 or passive are somehow useless because they weren't using them in the video.

[Stonehenge]

Wow, calm down. The video doesn't invalid all that OP says, but i think the notion of "Outdated" is quite unfair and exagerated. I saw this video from Relentless Zen yesterday, and he shows a Banshee build usefull in solo and coop party. And the insane endgame gameplay he proposes is not based on broken tankiness and spam, but being offensive, fast and quick. Seems quite good to me.

I'm not a Banshee main, but i'd say she's far from being useless and outdated. 

[Matak-FR]

8 hours ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

You talking is proof you should stop talking. Not every warframe needs to be a machine that you faceroll all the power buttons constantly to be useful, and doesn't mean that her 1 or passive are somehow useless because they weren't using them in the video.

Nonsense. You misinterpret what i said, thought it's was obvious by "benefice" I didn't mean a power that insta-kill everything. DE showed us they can create a complete useful kit for warframes with great synergy like Gauss or most recent rework with ember, where there powers can interact between them and get benefice from each other. I just saying this video show us, that most of the efficients builds for banshee, the 1 and 4 won't really come to a help because you already have an incredible CC with her 3 which get great interaction with her 2.

But yes, I shouldn't use the word "useless" but I tend to forgot people get upset for everything, my bad. You can effectively have a great fun with sonic boom or paralyse continually mobs with sound quake... I really like banshee especially for long survival but I tend too never use these two powers because I see no point to use them, and what I see around me and in this video is the same feeling, that what I'm trying to say.

(Sorry for my english)

8 hours ago, Stonehenge said:

Wow, calm down. The video doesn't invalid all that OP says, but i think the notion of "Outdated" is quite unfair and exagerated. I saw this video from Relentless Zen yesterday, and he shows a Banshee build usefull in solo and coop party. And the insane endgame gameplay he proposes is not based on broken tankiness and spam, but being offensive, fast and quick. Seems quite good to me.

I'm not a Banshee main, but i'd say she's far from being useless and outdated. 

Sorry, I didn't mean to be offensive, bad choose of words from me.

[Stonehenge]

il y a 28 minutes, Matak-FR a dit :

Sorry, I didn't mean to be offensive, bad choose of words from me.

This wasn't for you, but for GrimCorsair 😄

[selig_fay]

I will write my opinion here because I partially understand the feelings of TS. Banshee is good now, but only thanks to 1 button. But it can be better if it gets additional advantages on its other abilities, such as 4 ability to take advantage in damage from all sonar points, for example, and not only if the point is in the middle. But that can make her look like saryn, so I'd rather end here.

[Tiltskillet]

Automatic 0.5 forum cred deduction for calling anybody who disagrees with you white knights in advance.   Tsk, tsk.

11 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

We can all agree that Banshee is not excellent by any means

 

"By any means"?  I don't agree with that.  She's certainly excellent in a few ways, and there are frames I can't say that about. 

But yeah, un-augmented, I mostly agree with your specific points.   Sonar is great, even though in an ideal world I would want it to work a little differently.  Savage Silence makes her 3 incredible, but it should provide more utility without it. And even with the augments, her 4 in particular is still too specialized.   I never use the ability except for the occasional interception.

So she needs work, but I'd  put Hydron, Zephyr, Nekros, Grendel (probably) and Nyx (again!) ahead of her on the in need of attention list.   Mostly I'd be happy with small changes, but  Sound Quake needs a true overhaul, IMO.

 

[(XBOX)LZonut]

She defo needs some changes. Any frame where the only noticeably good results for them are at an endgame level where enemies go to 200 is near useless, because that is on survival, one of many gamemodes. Level 200 enemies don't even drop good rewards anyways, so it is also kinda useless going to that level. From levels 1 - 150 ish almost every frame is better than Banshee besides those who are in need of reworks. Her 2 is her main feature, 3 is kinda just cheap stealth compared to invisibility frames at a higher cost, and her 1 and 4 are trash that only work with augments, i.e. terrible abilities.

What I think Banshee kinda suffers from is only having one theme. She needs a new ability that pulls from actual Banshees, vibrations, something. All of her abilities are sound based. Her 1 and 4 are literally the same ability but Banshee puts more sound into her 4 (which causes her to crouch and stuff). 

Edited June 11, 2020 by (XB1)LordZonut

[Mados.sys]

8 hours ago, NoLazyShadow said:

I used to talk about Valkyr a lot. People kept telling that she's 'fine'. But why Exal is bad? Maybe we should move this conversation somewhere else if we want to continue

People will always disagree when it comes to criticizing a Warframe and that's something that I really can't understand, I've already made topics about Hydroid and Excalibur, and I've seen one about Inaros, people are still disagreeing (but at least not everyone is like that) despite knowing that they have faults, is like they don't want the game to become better.

I believe we could talk more in depth about this when I make the Valkyr topic, as to why Excal is bad... Here's the topic that I made about him with all of his negatives and pluses too, pretty much his only good thing is Radial Blind, Exalted Blade can be good but,,, not better than literally any other melee, despite the combos are kind of lame.

 

8 hours ago, Stonehenge said:

Banshee, the most outdated Warframe of all with only one ability that is worth using; Sonar

 

Scuse me sir :

You are welcome. (Just a suggestion.)

People have already responded you to this, but I'm still gonna give my opinion.

As i said on the beginning, the only good thing that Banshee has is sonar, what this player do is exploit that infinite damage scaling and that's it, and again, he uses the short range Banshee to also abuse the stun, with around 3 seconds you're forced to main your Melee endlessly and spam the living hell out of Sonar because of how short it is, that is just as fun as playing Chroma. (around 20 meters I think instead of just once and letting the whole map be filled with weak spots)

btw have you actually noticed how he never touches Sonic Boom and Sound Quake right? it still proves my point.

I guess is worth mentioning that no one i right mind would stay 10 hours on a survival just to brag about how wrong some people play X warframe, anyone can stay 10 hours with Hydroid on a Kuva Survival, does that mean that he's completely ok and that he doesn't need a rework? Of course not, hell you can even stay those 10 hours way more comfortable with a Warframe like Vauban.

Videos like this are the reason why some people love to avoid criticism, I'm not saying you're part of them of course, it's just that it takes one influencer to brainwash some people into thinking that a Warframe in a terrible state is not "bad", and that anyone that says otherwise is arbitrarily wrong, a massive example being Excalibur.

[Mados.sys]

8 hours ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

The only people here stupid enough to call Silence bad are, well, see the fifth word of this sentence. For 75 power you get an incredibly long lasting, infinitely refreshable, completely hands-free stun that gives you more than enough time to move around killing anything you want with virtual impunity. Savage Silence works perfectly fine as the point is to kill the enemy when they've vulnerable from the stun in the first place, rewarding swift action and forward momentum over just chaining invincible finishers all day long like you're some kind of discount Ivara. The only problem with the skill is that it, like Sonar and Sonic Boom, is a fully body cast and would better fit Banshee's playstyle if, like Ash's 2, it did not interrupt movement. In fact, for her first 3 powers, that's really all she needs.

...you're really praising an ability that only works on Stealth huh...?

If you want finishers just bring Excalibur, he's terrible but for 50 or half of that cost you can blind enemies, do a decent CC and finish them without the need of a super short build and bringing a quick finishing melee.

It's obvious that you aren't going to kill more than 2 enemies with Savage Silence so if there's a 3rd, you're gone, you'll have to get them out of your range, get close again and stun them yet again in order to finish them, instead of how it should work properly which is allowing you to finish them as far as they are inside of Silence's range.

Killing them ONLY during the stun isn't the point, and if it is, guess what, it's a terrible augment. 300% finisher damage sounds good an all, but I can get x10 damage with a single Sonar cast, and I don't need a super short build with an extreme mobility to compensate the flaw of an Ability and it's augment.

I hope you're kidding when you're saying that free hand movement is all Banshee needs,

8 hours ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Banshee's 1 should be a one-handed cast that no longer interrupts reloading or movement.

Banshee's 2 and 3 should be upper body locked casts that still enable parkour and movement.

Her 4 is a tool for providing CC support when you aren't going to be doing the majority of the killing, and tbh, in any group, a Banshee that is pulling down the majority of kills and damage in a team means the team is not at all pulling its weight.

Oh, and her 2 is both going to get nerfed and needs to be nerfed as exponential stacking damage amplification is basically impossible to control for a big part of why she's frozen out of most major boss content despite being the number one support DPS in the game.

Oh yeah, and her Silence weapons+Silence bubble? Means when fighting groups of enemies by moving past them, they continue shooting your generally much tougher friends and never react to your attacks, as well as not drawing attention/aggro from targets that are outside of Silence's bubble and not facing you.

Okay? You completely forgot the extremely low amount of damage that Banshee does with Sound Quake and Sonic boom, free movement for the abilities would be excellent that's for sure, but come on... "Her 4 is a tool for providing CC support", my man, you want CC? bring literally any other Warframe that does the job way better.

Read the negatives on sound quake, enemies stumble outside of the range, not everyone can be stunlocked, you have a super slow cast speed, the damage is absolutely terrible, you are 100% vulnerable, can we agree that allowing free movement isn't going to fix Banshee?

Enemies never attack you unless you get closer, with or without silenced weapons, with or without Silence itself, the AI isn't that smart and we all know that, if you have a Kavat or Kubrow you can easily see how the enemies will always focus on them for being closer, and if you get just as close, they'll start aiming at you, the passive and Silence are still absolutely useless besides Silence's inconsistent stun.

[Stonehenge]

il y a 19 minutes, Deluxe-Chimera a dit :

Videos like this are the reason why some people love to avoid criticism,

Can't deny it usually.

Citation

it takes one influencer to brainwash some people into thinking that a Warframe in a terrible state is not "bad", and that anyone that says otherwise is arbitrarily wrong, a massive example being Excalibur.

I would not say exactly arbitrary, because, well, numbers are numbers. And despite my 6 years in this game, there are few YT influencer that i take a bit seriously. This one above seems solid to me, as he proposes a really offensive but not immortal build. I fail very often to exactly find the truth- because i dont have so much time- between let's say a typical video like his starting by "You all playing it wrong", and a thread like yours saying "not excellent by any means, completely outdated." If i were a total newbie i'd be lost.

So, from my point of view, if a warframe, like Banshee : 1/can cast a good CC, 2/ Can be helpful to the team, and 3/can be also an absolute damage dealer, i must confess i have a hard time seeing where the real problem is. Even if she may needs some polish, but what you are talking about is a complete rework.

I understand that a frame with half of her abilities being useless is a call for rework, but that's the point...i can really use all her set with good result, even without going on +9999 endless.

But as i said i'm not a Banshee main. Still, i think a better example of outdated would be Nyx. 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Stonehenge

[Mados.sys]

22 minutes ago, Stonehenge said:

I would not say exactly arbitrary, because, well, numbers are numbers. And despite my 6 years in this game, there are few YT influencer that i take a bit seriously. This one above seems solid to me, as he proposes a really offensive but not immortal build. I fail very often to exactly find the truth- because i dont have so much time- between let's say a typical video like his starting by "You all playing it wrong", and a thread like yours saying "not excellent by any means, completely outdated." If i were a total newbie i'd be lost.

So, from my point of view, if a warframe, like Banshee : 1/can cast a good CC, 2/ Can be helpful to the team, and 3/can be also an absolute damage dealer, i must confess i have a hard time seeing where the real problem is. Even if she may needs some polish, but what you are talking about is a complete rework.

I understand that a frame with half of her abilities being useless is a call for rework, but that's the point...i can really use all her set with good result, even without going on +9999 endless.

But as i said i'm not a Banshee main. Still, i think a better example of outdated would be Nyx. 

Well I mean with half of her kit not working properly, Silence only working for a super short stun and only working on Stealth I really doubt that Sonar compensates it.

I agree with you that Banshee can do a decent CC (Is not really "good" imo) and can be the absolute best damage boost, but as I mentioned, the rest of her kit pretty much self explains were the problem is, that's why I like to point out Chroma too, he has one of the best damage buffs but that's it, no one uses Chroma besides his 2 buffs, does that mean that he's ok and there isn't a problem? I don't think so.

An almost complete rework would be perfect because she really needs a lot of changes except Sonar. (tho as one mentioned, it might get nerfed for the absolute insane amount of damage that it scales)

Nyx also needs more changes but even she got a micro rework making her more updated than Banshee, but Nyx is for another topic.

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Savage Silence makes her 3 incredible

I mean, a 3 second finisher that you have to reset by getting enemies out of your range... I really don't know how you can consider that incredible, Excalibur can do that in a single flash, stun enemies longer and finish them as long as the blind last.