Deimos: Arcana: Hotfix 29.5.2

[spudster888.]

22 hours ago, BrazenBoar said:

If you take a look at the main quadrity of MMORPG its DPs,Aoe,heal, tank.

Personally i feel indiscriminate explosion is too powerful,limit it to1,7 or 9(cat'o 9 tails) single peopke to be damaged,not explosion.Even with kuva chakuur for eg you want to hit those shots to get max damage,even tho explosion would more than likely kill you.

With operator energy isnt too much of a problem,

And warframe isn't remotely comparable to those kinds of games. If you turn whipclaw into a single target ability, you kill all of khoras viability. We have to remember that warframe is a power fantasy, and as such the balance SHOULD be skewed in the favour of the player. Hell one of the many reasons MMORPGs are bad is the extreme balance almost to the point of the game lacking anything interesting for the player to interact with. 

[PublikDomain]

14 minutes ago, BrazenBoar said:

maybe remove the explosion alt together and make whipclaw single target damage?

That doesn't work with Ensnare. The intention is for you group up enemies with Ensnare to make them easier to hit all at once with Whipclaw. Whipclaw is an AoE, and it always has been. There's no need to get rid of that entirely when you could instead make the AoE less problematic.

[BrazenBoar]

Firstly friend,if you take a good look into it sure its a power fantasy(themeframe,fashionframe etc) but core mechanics in any horde game require a combination of the 4 elements.

Secondly if you are turning the game into a one for all I definitely dont a grreee with it.sure go by the rule of cool but dont shove one framr into others face.Let the others have their niche too.Keep it reasonably balanced(slightly op,but not outclassing by every last thing out there)

Third,what i said are my thoughts on khora,I respect your opnion,but feel a modicum of diminishment to her will encourage new experiments,letting go of stagnation.I said limit the max number of hits to finite.Explosion is too random,great against groups but not too much against single,for eg.

8 minutes ago, spudster888. said:

And warframe isn't remotely comparable to those kinds of games. If you turn whipclaw into a single target ability, you kill all of khoras viability. We have to remember that warframe is a power fantasy, and as such the balance SHOULD be skewed in the favour of the player. Hell one of the many reasons MMORPGs are S#&$ is the extreme balance almost to the point of the game lacking anything interesting for the player to interact with. 

 

[BrazenBoar]

yeah,what i meant was make it hit only x numbr of enemies,not 1+explosion blast enemies.Or maybe reduce blast drastically,as many seem to have a problem with that part.

7 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

That doesn't work with Ensnare. The intention is for you group up enemies with Ensnare to make them easier to hit all at once with Whipclaw. Whipclaw is an AoE, and it always has been. There's no need to get rid of that entirely when you could instead make the AoE less problematic.

 

[spudster888.]

Just now, BrazenBoar said:

Firstly friend,if you take a good look into it sure its a power fantasy(themeframe,fashionframe etc) but core mechanics in any horde game require a combination of the 4 elements.

Secondly if you are turning the game into a one for all I definitely dont a grreee with it.sure go by the rule of cool but dont shove one framr into others face.Let the others have their niche too.Keep it reasonably balanced(slightly op,but not outclassing by every last thing out there)

Third,what i said are my thoughts on khora,I respect your opnion,but feel a modicum of diminishment to her will encourage new experiments,letting go of stagnation.I said limit the max number of hits to finite.Explosion is too random,great against groups but not too much against single,for eg.

 

See the problem with that is, if you nerf khora people will just trash her and use the other good frames in the game. We aren't just going to start using one of the many bad warframes in the game because you took one of your good ones away. If DE keeps going, they will just bring all of our good frames down to S#&$ tier, and there will just be no point playing the game anymore. If this is the precedent DE want to set, i hope their game dies. 

[BrazenBoar]

yeah sure keep a couple of niches open(eg nekros for loot,ash or ivara for stealth)but if you keep only one frame stagnant and powerful,no one woul ever use other frames except for a kick outta it

2 minutes ago, spudster888. said:

See the problem with that is, if you nerf khora people will just trash her and use the other good frames in the game. We aren't just going to start using one of the many bad warframes in the game because you took one of your good ones away. If DE keeps going, they will just bring all of our good frames down to S#&$ tier, and there will just be no point playing the game anymore. If this is the precedent DE want to set, i hope their game dies. 

 

[BDT_Flames]

From Old vault no give extraction and  i quit from cave for activate new Bounties = failed in failed stuck on missions  (nope enemies,and  bonus emita... 2 ) give useless reward  ENDO /mods

I use all boosters but no see rare parts  for my wapons ,and robot

For me is not problem.I have all 5 new mod and small farm now .DE pls fix this wrongs 

 

 

[BrazenBoar]

what i mean is you would(probably) experiment we new modding combinations etc, and slowly diversify away from 

"one frame to rule them all"

[spudster888.]

2 minutes ago, BrazenBoar said:

yeah sure keep a couple of niches open(eg nekros for loot,ash or ivara for stealth)but if you keep only one frame stagnant and powerful,no one woul ever use other frames except for a kick outta it

 

DE need to give us a reason to use warframes. If a frame has no reason to be used (and this is the case for alot of the roster), why should i use them? Also we aren't in a 'one frame does everything' situation. There is no one frame that is the best at literally everything. 

[BrazenBoar]

sure ther are tons of reasons to use frames.Ash for a  sneaky ninja,hydroid for octopus pirate,fairy titania,vauban the engineer etc.

problem comess when 1 like khora does everything bettr than their special nches.the main reason most people dony use other frames anymoe.

4 minutes ago, spudster888. said:

DE need to give us a reason to use warframes. If a frame has no reason to be used (and this is the case for alot of the roster), why should i use them? Also we aren't in a 'one frame does everything' situation. There is no one frame that is the best at literally everything. 

 

[spudster888.]

Just now, BrazenBoar said:

sure ther are tons of reasons to use frames.Ash for a  sneaky ninja,hydroid for octopus pirate,fairy titania,vauban the engineer etc.

problem comess when 1 like khora does everything bettr than their special nches.the main reason most people dony use other frames anymoe.

 

I mean i don't use alot of the frames you listed because they are clunky and poorly designed. Hydroid especially is just abject S#&$ which needs a rework. 

[Obnyr]

Heyo,

Seen the QoL improvements, and they're great, but there is still no possibility to go out of Necramechs with a controller without using ability menu. This would only require the possibility to select the 5th ability through the "cycle left" and "cycle right" commands.

Also, there are still bugs in archwing with secondary fire on controller, but as I don't play archwing that much, that is less a problem. I did post about that some times ago, only answers I got was from people saying "use Steam Input". What about exporting my mapping to consoles then ? Crossplay/save/whatever is still somewhat of a goal right ?

And, please, take a look on this thread :

 

We are many to think that we should be able to have the metallics color tied to accents, and 2 energy color to chose. In fact, for my part, I'm only waiting for this change to buy the prime accessories. I really want that ephemera but first the idle problem (thanks a lot, it has been addressed), and now the incapacity tohave a choice on both metallics and 2 energy colors had really cooled me down... I mean, it is a paid cosmetic, it has to feel a bit premium for people to feel that it has the value of the money, and it having 3 colors doesn't seem illogic in that way to me.

[staranow]

Well I for one will not be using Khora anymore in any capacity with this poorly implemented nerf in effect. I used to enjoy using Khora sometimes but she was never in my top 10 favorite frames to play. She was like 12 or 13 for me, something to bust out when I'm in the mood to play her. Sadly with this nerf I will NEVER be in the mood to play her. I won't delete her just yet, cause she was a pain in the ass to farm for me but I will no longer use her for ANY content.

[matblck]

Please fix Deadlock Protocol, Protea boss fight, its so annoying and sad😒

 

[PublikDomain]

12 minutes ago, BrazenBoar said:

yeah,what i meant was make it hit only x numbr of enemies,not 1+explosion blast enemies.Or maybe reduce blast drastically,as many seem to have a problem with that part.

Then you've got the same kind of reliability issue with a LoS check. Say there's a 3-enemy limit to match Accumulating Whipclaw, and you're fighting a Heavy Gunner surrounded by a half dozen fodder units. Will you hit the Heavy Gunner? Or will you just hit fodder? There's no way to reliably predict what the system will pick. It could be the closest 3 enemies, but because of Warframe's pretty great hitboxes and the delay on Whipclaw's explosion it's hard to tell where exactly you're going to hit. And what if  it picks 3 Infested Maggots instead of the Ancient Disrupter because they were closer together?  There could be some weighting rule that certain enemies are more important to hit than others, but that just increases the complexity and cost of the check the same as increasing the accuracy of a LoS check.

The best, simplest way to address Whipclaw is to let it hit everything and to scale the damage based on the range.

24 minutes ago, spudster888. said:

shes not generally the absolute definitive best at any one thing

She's definitely the best damage dealer. I can out-damage Saryns and Volts in ESO, as long as we're getting to 8+ waves. The longer a mission goes the better Khora gets, because the usual AoE damage dealers scale out way sooner. That's why Steel Path evolved a Khora meta and not a Saryn meta. And not only is she the best damage dealer (obviously outside of special cases like Eidolons), she's also excellent at a bunch of other things as well. She's a jack of all trades, master of all of them and especially DPS.

She's incredibly powerful, and I've got no problem with her being nerfed a little - as long as it's done the right way. Which a LoS check definitely isn't.

[Virmare]

hace 1 hora, PublikDomain dijo:

No sé si diría "masivamente". Lo único que prácticamente cambia es que a veces hay que pulsar el 1 dos veces. Todavía puedes volar alrededor de franjas explosivas de enemigos de un solo golpe, que es algo por lo que se han modificado muchos marcos y armas en el pasado. Ella es funcionalmente idéntica a cómo era antes de nerf. Sin embargo, lo que es el nerf es enormemente molesto . Es un enorme dolor en el trasero que no aborda su poder y solo introduce molestia.

Pero Khora se ha merecido un nerf durante mucho tiempo. Ella siempre ha sido muy fuerte. Lo sabría, ella ha sido mi principal durante más de 2 años. Todo lo que obtiene son beneficios gordos, ya sea Acumular Whipclaw o daño adicional del Combo Counter o Blood Rush y Weeping Wounds. Su producción de daño solo ha aumentado desde su lanzamiento, y fue bastante alto para empezar. Muchos marcos y armas se han rebajado con razón por menos, como Bramma y Catchmoon. Ella debería estar nerfeada, y creo que el nerf correcto podría hacerla sentir mejor para jugar. Una disminución del daño satisfaría la erección de DE al tiempo que permitiría que el combo Whipclaw + Ensnare funcionara de manera confiable e incentivaría el uso de su CC y apuntar más. Creo que la haría más divertida.

Today any warframe can kill enemies with 9999 level  like Khora does, in fact there are some that make it even easier, just by pressing E.

Examples: Wisp, Mag, Garuda, Banshee, Volt, Frost, Nyx and many more.

If you complain about Khora damage, complain about damage in general, the only difference between Khora and other Warframes is that Khora is generally useful in all missions.

A long time ago, warframes stopped being classified for their "damage" and began to be classified for their "usefulness in mission"

In short, Khora has been nerfed by the rivens black market that DE herself created and the people who play legally are the ones who have been #*!%ed.

I am in favor of not being able to kill through walls, but I ask for that for everyone and not according to the interest of the people

[spudster888.]

Just now, PublikDomain said:

Then you've got the same kind of reliability issue with a LoS check. Say there's a 3-enemy limit to match Accumulating Whipclaw, and you're fighting a Heavy Gunner surrounded by a half dozen fodder units. Will you hit the Heavy Gunner? Or will you just hit fodder? There's no way to reliably predict what the system will pick. It could be the closest 3 enemies, but because of Warframe's pretty great hitboxes and the delay on Whipclaw's explosion it's hard to tell where exactly you're going to hit. And what if  it picks 3 Infested Maggots instead of the Ancient Disrupter because they were closer together?  There could be some weighting rule that certain enemies are more important to hit than others, but that just increases the complexity and cost of the check the same as increasing the accuracy of a LoS check.

The best, simplest way to address Whipclaw is to let it hit everything and to scale the damage based on the range.

She's definitely the best damage dealer. I can out-damage Saryns and Volts in ESO, as long as we're getting to 8+ waves. The longer a mission goes the better Khora gets, because the usual AoE damage dealers scale out way sooner. That's why Steel Path evolved a Khora meta and not a Saryn meta. And not only is she the best damage dealer (obviously outside of special cases like Eidolons), she's also excellent at a bunch of other things as well. She's a jack of all trades, master of all of them and especially DPS.

She's incredibly powerful, and I've got no problem with her being nerfed a little - as long as it's done the right way. Which a LoS check definitely isn't.

You aren't playing against very good saryns then, as someone who was a saryn main for a very long time, i've never seen a saryn come close to me in ESO. Mind you, i tend to just not run ESO with people because honestly there just isn't a reason to outside of levelling. 

Whilst i agree khora is better in steel path, i think this is more of a commentary on how S#&$ steel path as a game mode is. Leave our good BDSM girl the hell alone tbh 

[MacCay]

What is wrong with you DE why you made it so Gara will lose the glass hair and the glass spikes on her back with the delux skin when the second ability is active you know the one that players should have active most of the time its so ugly i didnt payed for that skin to look how ugly she is when the glass shards are not on her and im sure i cant be the only one who things this way 

[BrazenBoar]

i would say something like bigger target.more priority to compensate

4 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Then you've got the same kind of reliability issue with a LoS check. Say there's a 3-enemy limit to match Accumulating Whipclaw, and you're fighting a Heavy Gunner surrounded by a half dozen fodder units. Will you hit the Heavy Gunner? Or will you just hit fodder? There's no way to reliably predict what the system will pick. It could be the closest 3 enemies, but because of Warframe's pretty great hitboxes and the delay on Whipclaw's explosion it's hard to tell where exactly you're going to hit. And what if  it picks 3 Infested Maggots instead of the Ancient Disrupter because they were closer together?  There could be some weighting rule that certain enemies are more important to hit than others, but that just increases the complexity and cost of the check the same as increasing the accuracy of a LoS check.

The best, simplest way to address Whipclaw is to let it hit everything and to scale the damage based on the range.

She's definitely the best damage dealer. I can out-damage Saryns and Volts in ESO, as long as we're getting to 8+ waves. The longer a mission goes the better Khora gets, because the usual AoE damage dealers scale out way sooner. That's why Steel Path evolved a Khora meta and not a Saryn meta. And not only is she the best damage dealer (obviously outside of special cases like Eidolons), she's also excellent at a bunch of other things as well. She's a jack of all trades, master of all of them and especially DPS.

She's incredibly powerful, and I've got no problem with her being nerfed a little - as long as it's done the right way. Which a LoS check definitely isn't.

 

[Butterfly85]

Right. Whoever decided that GATING the new bounties behind the old isolation vaults needs to explain why the hell they've done this. And it's not like it's a case of run the old ISO once and permanently unlock them. You have to do the things EVERY DAMN TIME to access them

I do not want to spend 45 minutes re-running something I have run countless times and have all the parts I need in order TO ACCESS NEW CONTENT. That is awful game design.

If that isn't bad enough, having gone in to do the damned vault in order to look at the new stuff, something glitches out on the third vault so badly my partner had to force extract me by going back to the Necrolisk, so I didn't even get to see the new stuff anyway.

Basically I got stuck inside one of the side rooms you can get into in order to unlock one of the secret rooms. i go in, hit the void trigger to unlock the other door, and then I get stuck behind an invisible barrier.

Excuse the caps but i am livid right now.
 

[PublikDomain]

And another example from today of why LoS is bad:

Warframe as a game isn't built in a way that makes LoS checks a viable solution.

1 minute ago, spudster888. said:

You aren't playing against very good saryns then, as someone who was a saryn main for a very long time, i've never seen a saryn come close to me in ESO. Mind you, i tend to just not run ESO with people because honestly there just isn't a reason to outside of levelling. 

Whilst i agree khora is better in steel path, i think this is more of a commentary on how S#&$ steel path as a game mode is. Leave our good BDSM girl the hell alone tbh 

This is something I've found consistently across PUGs for years now. And not just ESO, stuff like Sorties, Scarlet Spear, Steel Path (and I mean legitimate Steel Path gameplay, not sewer camping), anywhere you need to kill a horde of high level enemies Khora is the best at it. And she only gets better the higher things get because the other damage-dealers will have long scaled out. Khora's always been significantly more powerful in practical use than other frames, it's just until recently she hasn't had a place to show it. And now it's super obvious that stuff like allowing Blood Rush and increasing the Combo Counter damage bonus was maybe a step too far.

4 minutes ago, BrazenBoar said:

i would say something like bigger target.more priority to compensate

I mean, does that mean Commanders take priority over Bombards because their hats are taller? Physical size is a decent indicator, but it's not some ironclad determiner of enemy power. The Parasitic Charger Eximus it a more important target to me than the Brood Mother even though it's smaller. And you could fine tune this selection so it sorts by X and then by Y and then by Z to get a really tight selection... Or you could just use a damage falloff.

[siamesesnow]

Yes, please make the new Arcana vaults separate from the older iso vault bounties.
1. Some people can only play Warframe for limited amount of time per day because, you know, other responsibilities
2. The chance of being bugged/host migrating in the old vaults is still too high which may force you to start the old vaults again
3. We just want to experience the new content give us a break please :(

[BrazenBoar]

10 minutes ago, siamesesnow said:

Yes, please make the new Arcana vaults separate from the older iso vault bounties.
1. Some people can only play Warframe for limited amount of time per day because, you know, other responsibilities
2. The chance of being bugged/host migrating in the old vaults is still too high which may force you to start the old vaults again
3. We just want to experience the new content give us a break please :(

yeah same here

[BrazenBoar]

but then a lot of others would go "khora isnt op,she dosent deserve a nerf"

12 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And another example from today of why LoS is bad:

Warframe as a game isn't built in a way that makes LoS checks a viable solution.

This is something I've found consistently across PUGs for years now. And not just ESO, stuff like Sorties, Scarlet Spear, Steel Path (and I mean legitimate Steel Path gameplay, not sewer camping), anywhere you need to kill a horde of high level enemies Khora is the best at it. And she only gets better the higher things get because the other damage-dealers will have long scaled out. Khora's always been significantly more powerful in practical use than other frames, it's just until recently she hasn't had a place to show it. And now it's super obvious that stuff like allowing Blood Rush and increasing the Combo Counter damage bonus was maybe a step too far.

I mean, does that mean Commanders take priority over Bombards because their hats are taller? Physical size is a decent indicator, but it's not some ironclad determiner of enemy power. The Parasitic Charger Eximus it a more important target to me than the Brood Mother even though it's smaller. And you could fine tune this selection so it sorts by X and then by Y and then by Z to get a really tight selection... Or you could just use a damage falloff.

 

[Jedi_pup]

tunnels in the vault for the connecting of the 2 vaults some are impassible via mech, you seem to fit but the overhang blocks, also i did all 6 missions for vault and repeated the lower ones again and the fissure mission portion broke and would not complete the fissure and the timer would run out and restart.