NYX 1-st skill. Maybe 2-3 minions instead of one?

[-EPECb-]

To destroy your minions - press and hold the skill button. Same action as Titania with her Lanterns.

* You yourself choose when and whom of the mobs subordinate to your Will looking at the fact that each of them can give you. For example: one of them will restore the shields to you, the other - have a good long-range weapon, and the third will break into the crowd of enemies with a melee weapon for attracting the main attention... It will be much more interesting than just 1 minion and it make the first skill NYX really useful.

DE, why not?

Спойлер

++++++++

Another problem with NYX 1-st skill... This "RailjackCrewlGuy" always kill her minion. I can't call both of them at the same time. Minion can also be killed by radiation status if he was present in the gun of the shooter.

[NinjaZeku]

Indeed, 1 just seems not good enough when you look at what other Frames get (lol e.g. Xaku),
3 would be my preferred number just because in solo you'd then still have a "full Squad" so to speak :P

Holding 1 to mass cancel, or recasting on an enemy for selective cancelling, should work fine.

Furthermore, I still say make the conversion permanent once the enemy has stored up lethal damage
(Nekros / Xaku can keep around their converted doods potentially for the whole mission),
have them then count as dead for the purposes of Exterminate etc and drop their loot, to prevent griefing possibilities.

Remove CC / debuffs (e.g. being slowed down / disarmed / whatnot) from your MC target(s).

Add synergy with Chaos and / or Psychic Bolts (BTW remove the target cap from PB already please thank you),
in that MC'd enemies hit get the "hurt me to buff my damage" duration again, so you don't have that thing
where you need to focus purely on whacking away at an enemy you already removed from the list of things to kill.
[Or, alternatively, just don't have that be on a limited duration in the first place I guess lol.]
Put a cap (dunno, 2000% or so?) on how much you can buff them, let the Augment (in addition) increase that cap.

Of course, if some of this would be too stronk for a Helminth-able ability, simply nerf that version in whatever ways necessary.
But Nyx at least really deserves to get some more oomph behind this ability (like, I actually replaced her 1 on some builds, WTF, feels bad man).

Lastly, purely for funzies, when the ability ends on an already shindeiru enemy, make their head asplode :D

[-EPECb-]

Somehow the Radiation/Xaku some skills cancels the first Nyx skill !  (

[-EPECb-]

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[Godmode_Ash]

I think the biggest problem with Mind Control is the AI. Celestial Twin has the best AI, whenever Wukong relocate, the clone will teleport in and start shooting right away.

No matter amount of buff will make MC unit useful in any fast-pace mission. Unless you only want to use MC in defense mission.

[Leqesai]

On 2021-03-07 at 3:17 PM, Godmode_Ash said:

I think the biggest problem with Mind Control is the AI. Celestial Twin has the best AI, whenever Wukong relocate, the clone will teleport in and start shooting right away.

No matter amount of buff will make MC unit useful in any fast-pace mission. Unless you only want to use MC in defense mission.

This is the main issue for sure. Secondarily, however, the issue with Mind Control is that the targets really aren't very useful. Even with 1000% damage enemies just don't output much. 

[Calthous]

Mind controlled enemies need a much more aggressive A.I. to be useful. 

If 'aggression' (more proactive/active with targeting and shooting) can be dialed up with existing A.I.s they should test that, but other wise they should consider making a new A.I. archetype for the type of enemies Nyx can mind control to be used when she does it.

 

2-3 minions with the current A.I. would not be very useful for higher level content if not given a more aggressive A.I. at least IMO.

[PsiWarp]

Maybe allow up to 3 Mind Controlled targets. Have the highest damage buff be shared among them.

New synergy with Chaos: if Mind Control expires on a target, it jumps to the nearest enemy under Chaos' effect.

[-EPECb-]

В 08.03.2021 в 06:17, Godmode_Ash сказал:

I think the biggest problem with Mind Control is the AI. Celestial Twin has the best AI, whenever Wukong relocate, the clone will teleport in and start shooting right away.

...no matter. NYX will have 2-3 allies to distract enemies. Let them be stupid, but there will be more than 1. For defensive missions, they should be suitable. I'm even ready to accept that they won't teleport to NYX like Atlas mobs or Wukong's Celestial Twin do. For me, the main thing is quantity of them.

1 allied mob is not enough for NYX!

[Godmode_Ash]

3 hours ago, -EPECb- said:

...no matter. NYX will have 2-3 allies to distract enemies. Let them be stupid, but there will be more than 1. For defensive missions, they should be suitable. I'm even ready to accept that they won't teleport to NYX like Atlas mobs or Wukong's Celestial Twin do. For me, the main thing is quantity of them.

1 allied mob is not enough for NYX!

Extra NPC won't make up for the useless AI. For example, look at Nekro's shadow: 1) too many shadows block teammates bullets 2) shadow deal terrible damage due to how npc dmg works 3) they are stationary, require 100 mana to relocate each time.

Celestial twin on the other hand is much better 1) it automatically follows and teleport with you, and respond to threat right away after relocated 2) it use your mod weapon, can be CO primer sidekick 3) can be heal from cloud, or beef up from defy

Quality > quantity IMO

[sunderthefirmament]

On 2021-03-08 at 7:27 PM, Leqesai said:

This is the main issue for sure. Secondarily, however, the issue with Mind Control is that the targets really aren't very useful. Even with 1000% damage enemies just don't output much. 

They need percentage based damage, with the exact number depending on their average fire rate/attack speed.  So a mind controlled heavy gunner would maybe deal like 2-5% of the enemy's max health per hit, while a ballista might deal 25-50%.  And those numbers could increase based on power strength, up to an easily achievable cap (like 200% strength or something).

[Leqesai]

6 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

They need percentage based damage, with the exact number depending on their average fire rate/attack speed.  So a mind controlled heavy gunner would maybe deal like 2-5% of the enemy's max health per hit, while a ballista might deal 25-50%.  And those numbers could increase based on power strength, up to an easily achievable cap (like 200% strength or something).

I don't think this is really a solution tbh. It makes sense in terms of output values but it seems like it would be pretty complex to implement (values specific to each unit would be a lot of work). 

An easy solution would be to maintain the damage increase while causing the affected enemies to deal true damage, bypassing resists.

[sunderthefirmament]

Just now, Leqesai said:

I don't think this is really a solution tbh. It makes sense in terms of output values but it seems like it would be pretty complex to implement (values specific to each unit would be a lot of work). 

An easy solution would be to maintain the damage increase while causing the affected enemies to deal true damage, bypassing resists.

You're probably right.  I think how realistic my % based damage suggestion is depends on whether each enemy unit has an attack speed stat just clearly stated in... whatever way they organize it.  Then you could just use a formula or division or something to come up with a suitable number that interacts with that stat.

[-EPECb-]

В 12.03.2021 в 00:07, Godmode_Ash сказал:

Quality > quantity IMO

Not for all  :/

"Balance" - is an interesting word.

Wukong and Atlas have better mobs in terms of attack and mobility. Hence NYX's first skill MUST be able to create more minions - which is much wiser in her case than having one but smart minion. She is responsible for CONTROL, she needs to distract attention, for this she needs more of her own minions to help with the third skill - this is important! One minion, albeit smart, will not do the job properly. But since there is an opportunity to strengthen their attack, then three is enough in my opinion. If these three mobs are made smarter in behavior, then this will already be imbalanced in relation to other Warframes. IMO. Everything is really simple.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

My Nyx is a BEAST!!!  I consider Nyx to be such an incredible bad ass.    Leaping into a horder of enemies and causing mass confusion and then running around cutting them all down as they shoot each other or just standing somewhere and shooting everyone down.  Or facing down a horder of enemies and Nyx going into a trance and absorbing all that damage and pulling them closer until releasing all that energy back at them nuking everyone nearby.   Or seeing some super strong enemy and hitting him with psychic bolts to drop him to his knees to get cut down like a grunt.   

I have injected Harrow's Condemn into her 1.  So now my nyx can stun lock guys and have 2k shields.  Which is awesome with adaptation+Arcane Barrier.   

• Redirection
• adaptation
• Umbra Vitality
• Umbra Intensify
• Singularity (absorb augment?)

Not sure on the last 3... I think it might be OverExtended + Prime Continuity + streamline??  And Power Drift in exilus slot...    I think she has like 90% duration, 130% eff,  190 range, 160+ str ??   Strength is good for Psychic bolts, but it also improves damage absorbtion for her 4.  

She is almost in my top 6 frames...  just have to get past gara and garuda lol.  

[-EPECb-]

13 минут назад, (PSN)AbBaNdOn_ сказал:

I have injected Harrow's Condemn into her 1

Noooo... can't do this (

Replaced her useless 4 to a Banshee skill. 3 and 4 now complement each other and most importantly, they use the same mods for rng. and dur.! Now flaws 3 are compensated by 4 and vice versa. What is the use of her 4? At high level opponents, NYX expends all energy in seconds dealing mediocre damage in a short radius. Range is not enough even if you put in a lot of mods to increase the strength - will still be ineffective for use 4. Even augments do not save the situation with their "attraction" and ability "to move", because again the problem is in the rng. No matter how many tried to set up 4, nothing could be done with it for a comfortable game. It is like Grendel's 4th skill for me... that is, it is completely useless. 1 skill is much more useful, but needs some improvements in it.

Duration 207, Range 205, Strength 115, Energy efficiency 130. (Arcane for energy for frequent use of skills)

Str. 115 is enough for 2 - remove 92% of the armor from enemies, which only increases the damage against them (we try to achieve the same effect (Sarpa) when we go hunting for Eidolons - we do not remove they armor by 100% to cause more dmg.); duration ~20 seconds. Dur. + Rng. ~200 - gives ~50 m. and ~55 sec. for 3, 4. (60 sec. For 1)

......that's what I call NYX Perfect Control.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

Cant argue with your assessment of Absorb lol.   Its damage multiplier starts with .0X so nothing really helps that lol.   And again your right about the range.  But people keep telling me the more damage it absorbs the bigger the area of the blast...   But yeah I get insta popped by other players sometimes and it only nukes the same small area still....     BUT I figure she only pulls in crap from 15 meters away so her blast range only needs to be 15..     But yeah would LOVE to see absorb tweaked and buffed to hell.   30-40m blast radius.   10x faster damage absorb to make her pop before blowing all your energy. 

Oh and I just remembered nullifiers and bubbles break her absorb right ?  

Still I have a ton of fun with absorb,  sitting on stuff to defend them lol.   

--------------

I was wrong about my stats.   I was 150 dur, 130 eff, 190 range, 105% str...  I was using overextended...   I started thinking about her mods closer after that..  Without overextend stretch+reach+cunning is 160% range..  This gave me a strength bump of 105 to 150%.   30% less range was like 8m off chaos for 40m.   3m off absorb aoe for 16m....    

I had to reforma two slots but I think this is best balance..

Yeah this might turn into a Harrow situation where I keep experiementing and wasting forma lol....   ugh....  

 

[-EPECb-]

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[MonsterOfMyOwn]

I'd rather have a permanent minion (until released, killed or swapped) than 2~3 minions duration based.

[-EPECb-]

3 часа назад, MonsterOfMyOwn сказал:

I'd rather have a permanent minion (until released, killed or swapped) than 2~3 minions duration based.

...Wukong's player i see.

NYX need a group of controlled minions otherwise how can she call herself "Mind Controller"?

 

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

il y a une heure, -EPECb- a dit :

...Wukong's player i see.

NYX need a group of controlled minions otherwise how can she call herself "Mind Controller"?

 

I'm not a wukong player, but for a frame that is kinda squishy* the minion for which you'll lose control is kinda dangerous, and yes Wukong specter set a new standard.

* except if you use a walking tank build based on her 4 + augment

 

[NinjaZeku]

9 hours ago, -EPECb- said:

...Wukong's player i see.

NYX need a group of controlled minions otherwise how can she call herself "Mind Controller"?

While I do want more than 1 target for MC, I don't really see how controlling a single mind isn't enough to gain that title.

Plus, to play devil's advocate, for groups there already kinda sorta is Chaos.

13 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

I'd rather have a permanent minion (until released, killed or swapped) than 2~3 minions duration based.

  

[-EPECb-]

В 25.03.2021 в 21:43, MonsterOfMyOwn сказал:

and yes Wukong specter set a new standard.

...standard for Wukong. Because it is Wukong's feature. Do not collect all the Frames in one pile. Then it would be enough one Frame only.

Wukong's specter - his copy, his twin. And who, do you think, such ordinary mobs what come in missions? Yes, they is simple soldiers with almost no special skills and precisely them controls NYX. What kind of "standard" are you talking about?

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Il y a 7 heures, -EPECb- a dit :

...standard for Wukong. Because it is Wukong's feature. Do not collect all the Frames in one pile. Then it would be enough one Frame only.

Wukong's specter - his copy, his twin. And who, do you think, such ordinary mobs what come in missions? Yes, they is simple soldiers with almost no special skills and precisely them controls NYX. What kind of "standard" are you talking about?

in term of energy economy and risk / reward or efficiency. Do you think that the psychic frame, queen of minds, have to recast every min a spell to maintain a random dude under her control ?

[Famecans]

Hello, can I suggest some augment mods without changing veteran builds?

Mind Control Augment: All enemies affected by Psychic Bolts are instantly affected by mind control.
Mind Control Augment: XXX% damage taken by Nyx is reflected to the controlled target.
Mind Control Augment: XXX% damage taken by targets will be channeled to increase damage to nyx's weaponry.

Chaos Augment : Enemies will attack targets affected by Psychic Bolts, XXX% damage taken by targets increases enemy damage affected by chaos, reactivate chaos maintains accumulated damage.
Chaos Augment : Chaos range increased by XXX%, Enemies affected by Chaos will be attracted to Nyx when Absorb is active.