Letting players use their Heavy Weapons in Rail Jack instead of turrets?.... Opinion?

[CrimsonSpawn]

So maybe have an intrinsic level where players can use their heavy weapons instead of the turrets that the host has chosen for his/her Rail Jack?

EDIT: And in the whole "connecting everything narrative of Rail Jack" Why not have players use there already build equipment? Why force them to farm a completely new set of gunnery that is only useful in that gamemode? And I get that this argument, by now, seems moot, as RJ was released almost a year back.... but still, if player wants to use their heavy weapon instead of a side turret.... let em. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Far too overpowered. That's how this will end up.

[ZeroX4]

3 minutes ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

So maybe have an intrinsic level where players can use their heavy weapons instead of the turrets that the host has chosen for his/her Rail Jack?

And whats the point on archwing in RJ then?

[Lutesque]

Aren't Heavy Weapons terrible in Space ? They were all converted to Projectiles with Uber Slow Flight Speeds... That's why people never left the Rail Jack in the old Gian Point farms. You couldn't hit the Broad Side of a Barn... Let alone a fighter that Auto Dodges your Reticle...

 

[CrimsonSpawn]

2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Far too overpowered. That's how this will end up.

Well it is an unbalanced game already... I don't see how this drop will change the ocean. Also, if all the players switch to heavy weapons as turret substitutes, which I doubt will happen but for arguments sake, doesn't that mean that the current RJ weapons suck ARSE as compared to heavy weapons? Not that I'm saying it but just following along that logic.

3 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

And whats the point on archwing in RJ then?

With the numerous bugs and the pilot flying whichever way he pleases, getting in and out of RJs, not to mention killed when a crewship shows up, is a pretty friction dense way to play.... In RJ, enter turret and shoot with Archwing, pretty frictionless... barring any bugs. Plus, you'll still need archwing to get to side objectives.... Its not like if heavy weapons are now equippable as side turrets that that's going to kill Archwing in RJ.

4 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Aren't Heavy Weapons terrible in Space ? They were all converted to Projectiles with Uber Slow Flight Speeds... That's why people never left the Rail Jack in the old Gian Point farms. You couldn't hit the Broad Side of a Barn... Let alone a fighter that Auto Dodges your Reticle...

Ok, which arch wing weapons have you been using? I haven't had any problems with the ayanaga or mausolon, but then again, those are pretty good.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

6 minutes ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

Well it is an unbalanced game already... I don't see how this drop will change the ocean. Also, if all the players switch to heavy weapons as turret substitutes, which I doubt will happen but for arguments sake, doesn't that mean that the current RJ weapons suck ARSE as compared to heavy weapons? Not that I'm saying it but just following along that logic.

That mindset is how we ended up with this unbalanced game in the first place, I'm not goingto advocate for repeating the same mistakes sorry.

And no it doesn't mean that at all. It means that 1 set of guns is made for Railjack and 1 set of guns is made for the normal game cos you know, armour values, hp etc are entirely different between troops and space craft.

[Circle_of_Psi]

I mean I see no reason why not to use our Heavy weapons, tho they'll need to be changed, given how fast and far away some ships are, I think the way the turrets are designed are massive AoE weapons, so they "always" hit the target when at close range. Given in Arcwing/RJ missions we're scaled down in size to make it believe that space is huge, why some drops are massive  

[CrimsonSpawn]

2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

That mindset is how we ended up with this unbalanced game in the first place, I'm not goingto advocate for repeating the same mistakes sorry.

Yeah but you putting it all on me is kind of unwarranted.... plus if you really want an unbalanced game there are far bigger criminals than Heavy weapons instead of side turrets.

4 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

And no it doesn't mean that at all. It means that 1 set of guns is made for Railjack and 1 set of guns is made for the normal game cos you know, armour values, hp etc are entirely different between troops and space craft.

Considering that you can already use those weapons in RJ, in archwing....... kinda defeats the argument.

3 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

I mean I see no reason why not to use our Heavy weapons, tho they'll need to be changed,

Haha..... gravimag 2.0

[Lutesque]

20 minutes ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

 

Ok, which arch wing weapons have you been using? I haven't had any problems with the ayanaga or mausolon, but then again, those are pretty good.

All Of Them 😮 !!!

Except those ones because This was a long time ago.... 

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

6 minutes ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

Yeah but you putting it all on me is kind of unwarranted.... plus if you really want an unbalanced game there are far bigger criminals than Heavy weapons instead of side turrets.

Considering that you can already use those weapons in RJ, in archwing....... kinda defeats the argument.

I didn't put it all on you, I said that type of mindset is how we got to this unbalanced state. What part of that put it all on you? 

Yes and no, we are far more maneuverable in the RJ than in AW, it's a trade off of mobility. I can also imagine how it might be exploited with things like Munitions Vortex for example.

[CrimsonSpawn]

1 minute ago, Lutesque said:

All Of Them 😮 !!!

Except those ones because This was a long time ago.... 

 

I would recommend trying the ayanaga....

2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I didn't put it all on you, I said that type of mindset is how we got to this unbalanced state. What part of that put it all on you? 

Ok, lets put this to rest.....

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Yes and no, we are far more maneuverable in the RJ than in AW, it's a trade off of mobility.

Yes...... I don't see why this is an argument against the topic?

7 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I can also imagine how it might be exploited with things like Munitions Vortex for example.

Irrelevant, this is a discussion on Munitions Vortex and not the heavy weapons, since its not like side turret gunnery are not currently being used to charge up the munitions vortex. Also, saying that this is an exploit is wrong, since it would only be an exploit if the developer did not intend the ability to work in this fashion, kinda like speedva is an exploit since the developer intended her ability to slow down and not fasten enemies.... However, like Nova's orb, it takes in all the projectiles. Also, even if it was an exploit, take it up with munitions vortex and not heavy weapons as a substitute for side turrets.

[Kaotyke]

Jump out. Stay in the RJ's tether area. Fire your Archgun.

[Lutesque]

6 minutes ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

I would recommend trying the ayanaga....

I did... It was ultimately the one I settled on.... Still couldn't hit Fighters with it.... But it did make short work of Crewships and Arrays...

Nice for when you have to Storm a Missile Platform and the Pilot can't back you up for whatever reason....

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 minutes ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

Yes...... I don't see why this is an argument against the topic?

Irrelevant, this is a discussion on Munitions Vortex and not the heavy weapons, since its not like side turret gunnery are not currently being used to charge up the munitions vortex. Also, saying that this is an exploit is wrong, since it would only be an exploit if the developer did not intend the ability to work in this fashion, kinda like speedva is an exploit since the developer intended her ability to slow down and not fasten enemies.... However, like Nova's orb, it takes in all the projectiles. Also, even if it was an exploit, take it up with munitions vortex and not heavy weapons as a substitute for side turrets.

Because you're having your cake and eating it too with your proposal and not with the current method. This is called a trade off. Without it, you're simply advocating power creep, which I strongly oppose.

It is entirely relevant because you need to examine external factors when changing something, you need to consider the possible outcomes and you're not doing that. Regarding Munitions Vortex and saying it's intended you should also then consider why it was nerfed with the update if it was always intended. Currently it is balanced for the dmg you can absorb using turret guns, if you then increase that dmg by firing stronger weapons at it, you are suddenly unbalancing it again.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, Lutesque said:

I did... It was ultimately the one I settled on.... Still couldn't hit Fighters with it.... But it did make short work of Crewships and Arrays...

Nice for when you have to Storm a Missile Platform and the Pilot can't back you up for whatever reason....

Amesha's 3rd ability with range is your best friend for using arch guns on fighters.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

4 minutes ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

kinda like speedva is an exploit since the developer intended her ability to slow down and not fasten enemies

Um you can say that about any ability, the "intention of X ability was to do Y but people are doing Z so that is exploiting"

[Lutesque]

7 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Amesha's 3rd ability with range is your best friend for using arch guns on fighters.

I know.... But I got bored with that and started using Elytron just for Funsies....😁 !!! Besides... There's Soooo many Fighters... It's better to let the Rail Jack deal with them.

[CrimsonSpawn]

2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Because you're having your cake and eating it too with your proposal

First of all, who the hell buys cake just to look at it? CAKE IS BOUGHT TO BE EATEN.... but even then, how am I having my cake and eating it to? I'm not saying that we can still move in archwing and have the protection of the hull or whatnot? 

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

you need to consider the possible outcomes 

If a bad outcome is based on the faultiness of some other variable or process... then I, nor my idea are to blame, nor to be considered as bad ideas

5 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

you should also then consider why it was nerfed 

It was nerfed because the developer did not fully test it.... Even after the nerf it still performs the same function, only changes in numbers

6 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

if you then increase that dmg by firing stronger weapons at it, you are suddenly unbalancing it again.

Balance it before release?...... was this thought so difficult to...... think?

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Um you can say that about any ability, the "intention of X ability was to do Y but people are doing Z so that is exploiting"

Well.... yes, to a degree. Like, Excalibur's first being spammed to survive high level missions.... or frost's globe being spammed to survive high level missions (Since their immune for a very short duration).

[chaotea]

TBH, even with a top teir heavy weapon, a maxed RJ gun is stronger against Railjack enemies.

 

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

21 minutes ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

First of all, who the hell buys cake just to look at it? CAKE IS BOUGHT TO BE EATEN.... but even then, how am I having my cake and eating it to? I'm not saying that we can still move in archwing and have the protection of the hull or whatnot? 

If a bad outcome is based on the faultiness of some other variable or process... then I, nor my idea are to blame, nor to be considered as bad ideas

It was nerfed because the developer did not fully test it.... Even after the nerf it still performs the same function, only changes in numbers

Balance it before release?...... was this thought so difficult to...... think?

Well.... yes, to a degree. Like, Excalibur's first being spammed to survive high level missions.... or frost's globe being spammed to survive high level missions (Since their immune for a very short duration).

You're on the Railjack yes? Therefore you have the mobility of the RJ which is better than AW and the protection of it with a stronger gun. 

That is a really silly thought process. 

No it's much weaker now. It was initially very strong, then nerfed in the update BASED ON THE DAMAGE OF CURRENT TURRET WEAPONS, that's not hard to understand. 

We all know what their balance efforts are like, no need to bring that up. 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb chaotea:

TBH, even with a top teir heavy weapon, a maxed RJ gun is stronger against Railjack enemies.

 

 

especially with gunnery lvl 9.
don't understand the point and it's also fun to shoot guns. at least for me.

and as already said ... archwing missions ??!?! there is a desert.

[CrimsonSpawn]

12 hours ago, chaotea said:

TBH, even with a top teir heavy weapon, a maxed RJ gun is stronger against Railjack enemies.

 

12 hours ago, Battle.Mage said:

especially with gunnery lvl 9.
don't understand the point and it's also fun to shoot guns. at least for me.

I just find playing with mausolon satisfying.....😁

[ReddyDisco]

imma do you one better, letting players use railjack weapons on the ground

[Lutesque]

Just now, ReddyDisco said:

imma do you one better, letting players use railjack weapons on the ground

😱 !!!!

 

[CrimsonSpawn]

12 hours ago, ReddyDisco said:

imma do you one better, letting players use railjack weapons on the ground

Hahaha..... Hahaha...... hahaha..... cooldowns when fighting thousands of enemies...... hahaha......