Should Warframe have a pity system?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

have you done the math on legendary cores ? its a joke it needs a pity timer ...

from the wiki a core has 0.18 drop chance and being only able to run this once per day you can expect to see a legendary core in 3.4 years with it being Nearly guaranteed in 6.9 years

 

Ok? And it's a rare item....that's why if you had one....you're probably not gonna sell it for 20p correct? Just like saryn prime or mag prime. Should we have a pity drop for them too?

40k endo and 2mil is what you need to max a mod, better get to work lol.

[Malikaith]

Warframe needs to not screw people who dont watch their shows and let people know when Nightwave ends. I lost over 300 credits because they only put it up ingame that it was ending TWO DAYS before and in that spambox of a newsfeed.

And then they make the credits worthless when things cost the same next seasons.

All it does is ensure people get screwed. They need to make this right and let us use our old credits

[_Anise_]

Just now, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Ok? And it's a rare item....that's why if you had one....you're probably not gonna sell it for 20p correct? Just like saryn prime or mag prime. Should we have a pity drop for them too?

it sells for 100 plat, it is not something that is so rare it should drop once!!! in 7 years !!!!! the alternative grind isn't even that bad.

if it were something like idk Excalibur prime on the drop tables at 0.18% , I would understand or actually be happy about it having an obscenely low drop chance,

most people are NOT going to keep playing a game that long, heck most online mmo games don't even survive that long !

and no I don't want a pity timer on relics because I can go farm like 10 of them and run the back to back and get the thing I want, the legendary core isn't something anyone can ever hope to obtain at its current drop chance with a restriction of "once per day" without a pity timer.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

58 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

it sells for 100 plat, it is not something that is so rare it should drop once!!! in 7 years !!!!! the alternative grind isn't even that bad.

if it were something like idk Excalibur prime on the drop tables at 0.18% , I would understand or actually be happy about it having an obscenely low drop chance,

most people are NOT going to keep playing a game that long, heck most online mmo games don't even survive that long !

and no I don't want a pity timer on relics because I can go farm like 10 of them and run the back to back and get the thing I want, the legendary core isn't something anyone can ever hope to obtain at its current drop chance with a restriction of "once per day" without a pity timer.

Multiple MMOs have been here for 20 plus years and many more are coming up on the 10 year mark. So that's just plain false. 

[_Anise_]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Multiple MMOs have been here for 20 plus years and many more are coming up on the 10 year mark. So that's just plain false

world of warcraft the granddaddy of mmos is only 17 years old, and its not false that some mmos failed others are bordering on ghost towns, yeah not all of them but enough, the point was that 7 years is a long time, too much to expect that most players will ever see a single drop

but since you choose to highlight this one part I will assume you agree with the rest of my statement ?

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

it sells for 100 plat, it is not something that is so rare it should drop once!!! in 7 years !!!!! the alternative grind isn't even that bad.

if it were something like idk Excalibur prime on the drop tables at 0.18% , I would understand or actually be happy about it having an obscenely low drop chance,

most people are NOT going to keep playing a game that long, heck most online mmo games don't even survive that long !

and no I don't want a pity timer on relics because I can go farm like 10 of them and run the back to back and get the thing I want, the legendary core isn't something anyone can ever hope to obtain at its current drop chance with a restriction of "once per day" without a pity timer.

Legendary Cores are not GATING any content, though.  They are not NEEDED, thus why they're so cheap despite being so "rare".

So them being a rarity is not an issue.  You can get enough endo and credits to max a mod (which you only need to max once, mind you) in an hour or two EASILY.  

 

[_Anise_]

Just now, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

Legendary Cores are not GATING any content, though.  They are not NEEDED

exactly! so why make the drop chance so low on top of it being a gated drop? they aren't important but yet deemed to have less than 1% drop chance ? it makes no sense to me?

if it isn't important let players have a realistic chance at getting it ? maybe not pity but it might as well not be on the reward lists at 0.18%

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, _Anise_ said:

exactly! so why make the drop chance so low on top of it being a gated drop? they aren't important but yet deemed to have less than 1% drop chance ? it makes no sense to me?

if it isn't important let players have a realistic chance at getting it ? maybe not pity but it might as well not be on the reward lists at 0.18%

Because if people got them more often, then Endo and Credit reqs for mod progression would be trivialized.

I don't see what you're not getting?  It's about b a l a n c e.   Devs have the data on their end to know where things need to be to ensure things aren't out of whack.  Sometimes that needs fine-tuning, but in the case of Leg. Cores, they've been around for awhile now and nothing's suffering for them being the way they are.

I have 4, myself, currently sitting in my inventory, and I don't even care to use 'em.  I have no need.  If I wanna max a primed mod?  A few RJ missions and I'm good.  This really is a non-issue.

[_Anise_]

why I am not getting it ? because 7 years for most people to get a single reward drop that you said yourself "isn't even needed" (or good) is stupid ? its pointless, something that rare should be something players want!

I wouldn't' be surprised if the 4 you have were given as compensation because my stats say 1200 hours and I don't recall seeing one ever drop.

[Zimzala]

1 hour ago, _Anise_ said:

why I am not getting it ? because 7 years for most people to get a single reward drop that you said yourself "isn't even needed" (or good) is stupid ? its pointless, something that rare should be something players want!

I wouldn't' be surprised if the 4 you have were given as compensation because my stats say 1200 hours and I don't recall seeing one ever drop.

So?

Why do you think every player 'deserves' or is 'entitled' to get 'everything' available in the drop tables?

Why do you think this has to be some universal truth?

All I see is someone focused on 'catching them all'...

[_Anise_]

2 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Why do you think every player 'deserves' or is 'entitled' to get 'everything' available in the drop tables?

I dont ? I just see it as a sort of an unreachable carrot on a stick to keep people trying but you guys are even saying it isn't a carrot its a turnip and that doesn't matter ?

[Zimzala]

11 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

I dont ? I just see it as a sort of an unreachable carrot on a stick to keep people trying but you guys are even saying it isn't a carrot its a turnip and that doesn't matter ?

So, you are now aware of the fact we are all in a skinner box.

And?

None of it matters, it's just pixels in a video game.

You want an answer to the question "DE, did you mean to do it this way, why did you do it this way?", IMO, which no one here can answer.

We are just players, like you.

[uAir]

22 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

I dont ? I just see it as a sort of an unreachable carrot on a stick to keep people trying but you guys are even saying it isn't a carrot its a turnip and that doesn't matter ?

Carrot on a stick.

You're going to have to explain that mindset to me. In what way is DE using the Legendary Fusion Core to entice you to do sorties that you can't just ignore it and want the core rather than just relaxing back and playing the game as casually or has hardcore as you want to get a maxed mod in a few days (or a month or two if you want to take it slow and play at your own pace).

[Grav_Starstrider]

On 2021-07-31 at 11:16 AM, Zahnny said:

Certain games, the most notable that I can think of being Genshin Impact has a Pity System which helps players if they have bad luck.

In their version, every 10 rolls garuntees one 4 star character. Every 90 rolls garuntees one 5 star character, unless you obtain them before hitting the pity threshold. Either way, it will then reset your Pity upon either criteria being met.

Essentially for certain things like Arbitrations, if you're having extremely bad luck, if your luck is so bad, it'll accumulate and give you it past a certain point.

I'd personally settle for un-diluting a bunch of the reward drop tables, tbh. Have the loot drop tables lower the drop chance of non-evergreen items by a small amount per player if each person has like, at least 3 of the thing, splitting that difference proportionally to the evergreens and un-owned non-evergreen drops. Doesn't even have to be by a huge amount, just turns 20% drop chance Endo and 1% rare mod drop chance up to 28% and 1.4% after getting a literally ever other reward in the pool. Any given group power-farming (or even just consistently playing the game together) would see small amounts of percentages shifting from things you don't need more of, to things you might need more of. You don't need more than 3 Kubrodon eggs stockpiled, it's worth seeing that drop's likelihood drop by a percentage point, while Bite raises by a half a percent. etc.

"Guaranteeing a rare drop" isn't really an easily quantifiable thing to decide per all of the enemies and mission reward tables across the game, so I think duplicate-based shifting of small amounts of drop chance from owned non-evergreen drops to un-owned and evergreens is probably easier to quantify and implement.

Unfortunately that means less plat moving from trading for frustrating-to-farm mods and such, by a marginal amount, so that kinda change would be dependent on DE deciding that player retention and lack of frustration was worth more than the loss from that unmoved plat.
(Not that moving plat explicitly gets them money either though, it just means somebody had to buy it at some point, and that somebody eventually is probably going to burn it out of the economy by purchasing from the market or abandoning the account's plat, or that the payer is likely to replace the plat with more purchased plat)

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

I don't think a pity system would help enough, to be honest.  The RNG has become a layer cake with so many failure points that it would be nearly impossible to implement.  They just need to remove some of the RNG from some of the layers of the acquisition of various items, or remove certain layers altogether.  Certain things that don't have layered RNG should have a token system instead of a pity system.  Kill a boss, get an RNG frame part and a token.  Kill the boss 10 times and still no systems?  You have 10 tokens, you can go buy the systems from a vendor because no one should be stuck running the Kela fight on repeat for 3 hours for a single Saryn systems when you need two because you need one for Chroma as well.  They could remove all the frames and weapons that are diluting bounty pools and put them in vendors and let you buy the parts with standing instead.  I'd rather have actual progress made every run and know it takes x amount of runs before I can get it, but also maybe get something faster through RNG than have to slog through unforgiving RNG for hours on end with absolutely zero guarantee that I'll actually ever get it.  I have actually hit statistical aberration more than once and gone way past the "Nearly guaranteed" run count for a few items because RNG is RNG.

They could remove literally half the RNG from the game, cut the time gates in half and there is still so much stuff to collect, level and re-level that most players would still never make it through all of it.  

[Grav_Starstrider]

On 2021-08-09 at 4:00 AM, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I don't think a pity system would help enough, to be honest.

Certain things that don't have layered RNG should have a token system instead of a pity system.  Kill a boss, get an RNG frame part and a token.  Kill the boss 10 times and still no systems?  You have 10 tokens, you can go buy the systems from a vendor because no one should be stuck running the Kela fight on repeat for 3 hours for a single Saryn systems when you need two because you need one for Chroma as well. 

They could remove all the frames and weapons that are diluting bounty pools and put them in vendors and let you buy the parts with standing instead.  I'd rather have actual progress made every run and know it takes x amount of runs before I can get it, but also maybe get something faster through RNG than have to slog through unforgiving RNG for hours on end with absolutely zero guarantee that I'll actually ever get it.  I have actually hit statistical aberration more than once and gone way past the "Nearly guaranteed" run count for a few items because RNG is RNG.

They could remove literally half the RNG from the game, cut the time gates in half and there is still so much stuff to collect, level and re-level that most players would still never make it through all of it.  

Even a weak pity system would be better than no pity system, would be nice if in addition to your other suggestions. That way the baseline chance/RNG of getting something you (and/or your entire squad) hasn't gotten yet would slowly improve as you kept playing.

It'd definitely be nice to see Warframe parts purchaseable from a relevant vendor outright after running assassination missions or other specific mission types enough times. Steel Meridian (relays or Iron Wake) could hold the bulk of Grineer-farmed enemies, while Fortuna could hold the majority of Corpus-farmed frames. The rest could be split among other Relay/Syndicate factions as is thematically appropriate (probably ideally matching the Warframe Augments the syndicates carry). A few other Warframes would of course be in some other specific places (like Gara purchaseable directly from a Cetus seller, Revenant from Quills, Garuda from Solaris United, Hildryn from Vox Solaris, Harrow from Red Veil, etc etc), all of the associated missions that have a chance of dropping a specific Warframe part would have a currency per part (or where from the same mission, just one currency) that can each be traded in for the relevant part after enough repetitions. DE, you could make the baseline grind and the token-based grind marginally worse than it currently is for the average or lucky players to retain the likelihood of a number of people spending platinum on the Warframe outright, but it's pretty player-hostile design to have a system where you can have such bad luck grinding for something theoretically simple to obtain, that you grow to hate the entirety of the game. I could imagine more revenue is lost by losing potentially paying players outright (a ton of us eventually resort to buying 75% off plat and then buying Forma bundles even if we started as "Proud Free-to-Play-ers") than you gain by making super-unlucky people buy a frame outright because the last piece is never dropping for them.

In general, you can consider Warframe component blueprints to just be chunks of credits, so I'd be okay with just reducing their drop rate in bounties in exchange for them being purchaseable at an approximately equal speed via tokens, as you described and as I re-described/elaborated on above. They wouldn't have to be removed outright. If anything though, they should be worth more credits, imo, so that it's less of a drag to receive them.

You probably need to temper your suggestions with the knowledge/remembrance that DE is running a Free To Play game. They need to get money from the most impatient/time-lacking of us. "Make Warframes easier to get" isn't too much different than "make Forma easier/faster to farm/build", it'd wreck what's probably one of their big plat/money movers. Reducing RNG dependence a smidge would be ideal, in moderation, but carried to the extreme, they'd probably see way less money and then go broke, and then we'd have no more game content coming in.