What are your thoughts on overframe's tier lists?

[L3512]

On 2021-10-01 at 9:13 PM, stormy505 said:

They're in separate tiers because what they are the best at are valued differently.

Take another example. Limbo is objectively the best at mobile defense, saryn is very good at killing stuff at a very fast rate. That doesn't make them valued equally despite being really good at specific things.

Killing stuff at a very fast rate is highly valued in at least like 95% of Warframe content. How often are you doing mobile defenses?

 

Because the tierlist isn't just archmelees. It's all of archwing, as in, archmelees are competing with archguns and it's insane how large that gap is.

Last arbitration I done two days ago I revived two people once and one person twice all before twenty minutes.
So if that is the voting base of the tier list, I'm not really interested.

Remember, if you want to get better at something, only take advice from someone that is better than you.

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

Nevermind Folks! It just got even more inaccurate. 
 

It is based on popularity not efficiency.

1. Banshee is undervalued and should not be all the way down at B tier,

2. Limbo is not a “solid option for specific tasks” he is literally EVERYTHING oriented. He’s king of

Defense.

Mobile Defense.

Capture.

Rescue.

Arbitration Defense. 
Some bounty stages.

 

saving your butt.
 

3.  Chroma should be a bit higher on the A tier. He is a extremely versatile frame. Lavos too!

4. Why is Harrow not on the S tier?! He can do everything

Heal

Energy Restore

Give you the ability to kill anything

Tank Himself Up

Freeze Enemies

etc!

5. Zephyr and Hydroid should be much higher up.

6. Oberon should not be at the bottom of the barrel.

7. You can’t really compare frames.

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

This website is totally opinionated.

 

Do not trust at all, it is extremely misleading and new players should not use it. The way to figure out what is a good weapon is:

Find a weapon.

Make it. 
If you want it, give it a good build.

Test it out. Are you comfortable with it? Do you like it? Can you use it well? Are you the most comfortable with this weapon compared to any other weapon? If yes, then that’s the best weapon for YOU.

Same thing with frames. Everybody has different preferences and different play styles. Don’t trust the opinionated list based on the opinions of the majority. Trust your own. Can’t decide? Ask around or test things out.

[Drachnyn]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb (PSN)Reaper330011:

2. Limbo is not a “solid option for specific tasks” he is literally EVERYTHING oriented. He’s king of

Defense.

Mobile Defense.

Capture.

Rescue.

Arbitration Defense. 
Some bounty stages.

Well that's not really everything in the game now, is it? An he definitely is not the king of capture and rescue without any innate speed abilities. Have you ever wondered why limbo was never nerfed for mobile defense but got nerfed very quickly for scarlet spear murex raid despite trivializing both missions the exact same way? Mobile defenses do not matter. Even his place as king of box opening was unceremoniously taken away by xaku.

vor 6 Stunden schrieb (PSN)Reaper330011:

3.  Chroma should be a bit higher on the A tier. He is a extremely versatile frame. Lavos too!

Chroma should honestly be in C tier, all he can do is hold a weapon and other frames do self buffing in more relevant ways.

vor 6 Stunden schrieb (PSN)Reaper330011:

4. Why is Harrow not on the S tier?! He can do everything

Heal

Energy Restore

Give you the ability to kill anything

Tank Himself Up

Freeze Enemies

etc!

Again, not really everything.

I think new players should trust you a lot less than this tierlist. It is not a revelation that tierlists are opinionated, every statement about how good or bad a frame is.

[Tiltskillet]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

Why is Harrow not on the S tier?! He can do everything

I love Harrow, especially with the right team or solo. S-tier fun, definitely.  But he's slow, has a lot of downtime, his energy and healing are often irrelevant, and he has trouble with many squad combos.

I'm actually surprised Harrow scores so highly at OF.  Not because he's terrible; rather because his issues and play style don't seem conducive to winning popularity contests.

 

 

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

7 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

Chroma should honestly be in C tier, all he can do is hold a weapon and other frames do self buffing in more relevant ways.

That’s alphabetical.

 

7 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

Well that's not really everything in the game now, is it? An he definitely is not the king of capture and rescue without any innate speed abilities. Have you ever wondered why limbo was never nerfed for mobile defense but got nerfed very quickly for scarlet spear murex raid despite trivializing both missions the exact same way? Mobile defenses do not matter. Even his place as king of box opening was unceremoniously taken away by xaku.

He renders the rescue target untouchable.

Can duel the capture target without being hit.

Tell me I’m wrong. He can render any target 100% untouchable. 

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

6 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I love Harrow, especially with the right team or solo. S-tier fun, definitely.  But he's slow, has a lot of downtime, his energy and healing are often irrelevant, and he has trouble with many squad combos.

I'm actually surprised Harrow scores so highly at OF.  Not because he's terrible; rather because his issues and play style don't seem conducive to winning popularity contests.

 

 

The only issues with him is

His 3. Ridiculous cast time but however, makes up for it with restoring hundreds of energy in a few seconds. 
 

Bro he’s my main I can shred steel path corrupted enemies that are level 400 with Harrow. Shred them. Harrow makes my life and everyone else’s easier. Also constant over shields. Like you said he is fun and brilliant but not very popular. Why?

I rarely see harrows anywhere because

He is absolutely ridiculous to farm and my friend gifted it to me. 

He is hard to figure out, at first.

Oddly enough he can only reach his full potentials at levels 80 and above because he needs damage to give damage.

But seeing how he does everything he should be an S tier in my opinion. 

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

They put Grendel, Nyx and Zephyr in the same tier as Yareli and Hydroid and didn't put them both in the straight F- category.

Grendel literally deletes anything other than very specific special enemies off the map instantly.  He can kill all of them while stripping their armor, gaining armor, and being extremely hard to kill.  He kills with near impunity.  Slap some really strong weapons on him for the things you can't eat and you're good to go.  Saryn gets S tier because she can kill in a wide area.  That's the whole trick.  She's not even that tanky.  Grendel also kills in a wide area, just a tiny bit slower and requires LOS.  I can kill SP enemies as fast as they can spawn with Grendel.  Not even Saryn can do that at high levels.

Nyx takes the heat off the whole team, provides a 100% defense strip which is about to get a stagger on top of that, and can defend any target if you happen to be in situation where you actually need to defend a target because the team can't defend it through pure murder.  That 100% defense strip works on a whole bunch of stuff that I'm waiting for DE to nerf out of working because Nyx can completely trivialize certain enemies.  The same tier as Yareli?  Really?

Zephyr is a hard to kill, strong defender with strong CC and strong damage output and some of the best mobility in the game, especially in open tile sets and open worlds.

Grendel and Zephyr also have a high "fun" factor imo with the rolling meatball and the ability to zip around like a jet plane.

Yareli is an anime hugpillow that someone stapled to a Kdrive and handed a pistol.  Hydroid is a washed up drunken sailor that watches way too many questionable movies involving tentacles.  Neither of them have good kits.  Only one of them has any use and is completely outclassed in that use by 2 other frames.

And they put Nekros in A tier.  The frame that is literally a meat shield that creates extra drops.  Other than people that just really like him for thematic reasons, no one brings Nekros unless they're farming or he's the only thing they really have built out.  His CC with Terrify works the wrong direction, Soul Punch is a joke ability and Shadows do nothing without the augment other than what Nyx's Chaos already does but better.

The whole list looks like garbage to me.  Half the frames are where they are because youtubers made them popular or they let you be lazy in missions, which is probably why a lot of youtubers use them.  I honestly want to rip this entire list to pieces, but this is already too long.

[(PSN)Cephalon_Chep]

I kinda agree but it’s all down to which frame you enjoy the most, grendel and zephyr’s place definitely surprised me tho they aren’t wrong but they’re aren’t completely right…waiting for when DE finally makes nyx fun…or not something so terribly simple…well I’m only upset because she shares Excalibur’s bod but i at least want to have fun using her without feeling like I’m just playing ivara or octavia with more or less steps…otherwise yes, all tier lists are opinions and tue only correct one is one the community(every single dedicated loser) agrees upon

[KitMeHarder]

I think the people who slander (the Overframe) tier list as a tool for new players, forget just how long it takes to invest into something, especially at that level/level of knowledge. Not to mention how long it takes a new player to build a repertoire of items, so that their opinion of said item can even be relevant by comparison. Players worth their salt will correct any "bad" knowledge they've gained through actual experience, and whatever that knowledge is, is better than the literal game suggesting things like "you should equip the uncommon IPS mods". 

(Plus, IMO this format is much less prone to misinterpretation for a new player, compared the often embellished single item reviews content creators make.)

[KitMeHarder]

On 2021-10-03 at 8:33 PM, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

I rarely see harrows anywhere because

Because things are relative, is what you're looking for.

On 2021-10-03 at 8:33 PM, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

Bro he’s my main I can shred steel path corrupted enemies that are level 400 with Harrow. Shred them.

Of course he can, because every frame can thanks to the customization this game provides (say frames were locked to their signature weapons, I bet your opinion would be very different). What's left is to compare how effectively he "shreds" the SP, to how all the other frames can (and that's just a small part of the game).

On 2021-10-03 at 8:33 PM, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

His 3. Ridiculous cast time but however, makes up for it with restoring hundreds of energy in a few seconds.

If he has the targets, if he's the one to kill them, if he gets *headshot kills, etc... All the while he's refunding (wasting) 100s or 1000s of energy a second to frames that have up to a 300 max capacity, unless they specifically build otherwise.

On 2021-10-03 at 8:33 PM, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

Also constant over shields.

Except everyone has access to Pillage (and even Condemn), so why should I care? (Not being mean, just pointing out how this game makes it not relevant.)

On 2021-10-03 at 8:33 PM, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

He is absolutely ridiculous to farm and my friend gifted it to me.

Not really. He's more-than-likely the next prime, and I doubt you'll really see much more of him after the first 1-3 months.

On 2021-10-03 at 8:33 PM, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

Oddly enough he can only reach his full potentials at levels 80 and above because he needs damage to give damage.

Which even by this very generous standard, makes him not useful in the other 80-90% of the game (if you call what he does at max potential "useful").

IMO he just boils down to being another weapon buffer who's forced to also be a tank. And even for this specific position (that could just be ~70% achieved by just giving any frame an AoE gun/PSF), he has to compete with Gauss, Chroma, Mirage, Rhino, Revenant, etc...

On 2021-10-03 at 8:33 PM, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

But seeing how he does everything he should be an S tier in my opinion.

1. Are you saying your opinion is good/relevant enough to influence other's opinion of him?
2. Or just that based on Overframe's definition this is where he should go?
3. Or simply the fact that's your rating regardless of how he actually preforms, because you like jack-of-all-trades? (IMO he's one in name only)

[Butterfly85]

Tier lists are trash, just go play them all and see what you like 🤷‍♀️

[Drachnyn]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb (PSN)Reaper330011:

He renders the rescue target untouchable.

Can duel the capture target without being hit.

Tell me I’m wrong. He can render any target 100% untouchable. 

You can extract while the rescue target is bleeding out, the fail condition is specifically the end of the death transmission so you can even successfully extract even after the target bled out. The only valid measurment for rescue and capture missions is speed. The best way of keeping the rescue target safe is moving so fast to extraction that the rescue target teleports to you (and with that away from enemies). Limbo only provides something for slow people who are bad at the game in rescue and capture.

[Drachnyn]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan:

And they put Nekros in A tier.  The frame that is literally a meat shield that creates extra drops.  Other than people that just really like him for thematic reasons, no one brings Nekros unless they're farming or he's the only thing they really have built out.  His CC with Terrify works the wrong direction, Soul Punch is a joke ability and Shadows do nothing without the augment other than what Nyx's Chaos already does but better.

Farming resources is extremly important in a grindy game like warframe however. That's what makes nekros so relevant.

[stormy505]

On 2021-10-01 at 11:12 AM, SneakyErvin said:

Nidus in A, Inaros in B and Grendel in C. They couldnt get much closer to being literally the same type of frame, yet they end up in 3 different categories, where potentially Grendel would be the A tier of the 3 given he has access to shield gate and a miniscule shield value to boot. All 3 bring very little to the group but Grendel is the one that brings most and needs to be considered/respected by other players the least to perform at full potential.

Nidus has one of the best grouping cc abilities in the game. Only thing that deminishes it now is that you can use it on any frame now.

Inaros has a cc that ignores LOS and applies blind which increases damage of melee a LOT, the most fun I have in solo SP endurance runs is with a gloom umbral inaros with a gram prime riven. Although it's a redundant amount of survivability if you aren't going for a super long time, still fun.

Like, immortality is not actually that rare in Warframe, majority of Warframes have some way to never die. Same issue I have with nyx and people who use the 4 augment to be invincible at the cost of mobility and argue that's why that frame is literally God incarnate, oh you can't die? Get in line.

Tldr: survivability isn't the main reason those frames are considered better than grendel.

 

On 2021-10-01 at 11:12 AM, SneakyErvin said:

Frost in C. Some people clearly dont know how to build and play Frost aggressively as a debuff/nuker/tank. At the same time Limbo is in A tier? Limbo is the mobile defense snooze button and the trivializer of Scarlet Spear. Obviously A tier since we do those two things so very often and mobdef certainly needs meta picks to complete. /s

You can't say people aren't playing/building frost right when you only play limbo with a minimum range max duration build. Experiment with rift torrent and come back to me. Only reason limbo would be rated lower is cause pug players don't like playing with limbos who build him for cc AND damage and not just a small cc. But I don't rate Warframes based on limited builds.

 

On 2021-10-01 at 11:12 AM, SneakyErvin said:

Wouldnt Chroma, Rhino, Trin and Harrow fit better in B given how they are mostly useful and shine in very specific encounters only? They dont exactly bring much to the table for the more regular gameplay in WF which revolves around mass killings. And the same would go for Volt the higher up we get in levels, which turns him into a CC frame and a stationary gun buffer since his AoE lacks scaling.

I agree with your complaint about the descriptions not fitting. The way I look at the tiers is just how much a frame's niche is valued, tridolons are extremely high up in value because of how much you'll do them if you're looking for arcanes to sell for plat. Although voidrig kinda just trivializes the content, fastest completions use snipers due to time loss on going into the mech (apparently, according to a friend of mine who actually tries to speed run tridolons, I'm not too knowledgeable about the high end tridolon runs.)

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

3 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Farming resources is extremly important in a grindy game like warframe however. That's what makes nekros so relevant.

The fact that he's good for literally farming extra stuff and nothing else puts him directly into the single use category and not one of the top tier frames.

[Drachnyn]

Gerade eben schrieb (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan:

The fact that he's good for literally farming extra stuff and nothing else puts him directly into the single use category and not one of the top tier frames.

I can see what you mean and the labels on the OF tierlist admittable dont do a good job at explaining the tiers. You could see it as nekros being relevant in so many different farms that he just pops up in so many different missions as farming frame of choice. This is why I like tierlists done by a single person more because they get to explain their reasoning.

IMO it's less about what exactly a frame does and more about in how many situations that thing applies. As example (perhaps a bit of an extreme example) wisp absolutely trivializes the stealth mr tests and there is no other frame that does anything even close to that. Yet that should not influence her in any general ranking because that's just such irrelevant content. Meanwhile nekros only does one thing but we have need of that thing every bigger new update. Nekros' singular thing just comes up so often.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

9 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

I can see what you mean and the labels on the OF tierlist admittable dont do a good job at explaining the tiers. You could see it as nekros being relevant in so many different farms that he just pops up in so many different missions as farming frame of choice. This is why I like tierlists done by a single person more because they get to explain their reasoning.

IMO it's less about what exactly a frame does and more about in how many situations that thing applies. As example (perhaps a bit of an extreme example) wisp absolutely trivializes the stealth mr tests and there is no other frame that does anything even close to that. Yet that should not influence her in any general ranking because that's just such irrelevant content. Meanwhile nekros only does one thing but we have need of that thing every bigger new update. Nekros' singular thing just comes up so often.

I don't even really like "tier" lists because it ranks things in an arbitrary order.  Based on what content?  If I really like cosplaying ninjas and running spy missions that skews my own personal list.  I'm big into specifics.  Nekros to me is not a great frame despite doing one thing really well because I no longer need resources that he can provide until they drop something new or if I just really gotta have that extra life support.  The fact that he can become obsolete the second I don't need resources and the rest of his kit is pretty weak actually makes him a bad frame to me.

I would have also put Frost in the "useless" section for reasons I've plastered in a hundred different threads.  I don't value Saryn's kill speed and range outside of ESO or Nuking defense missions to help clanmates level on Hydron.  She's not S tier to me.  The conversation we're having right now is why I don't like tier lists.  The reasons I gave earlier are why I specifically don't like overframes list.  The vast majority of the frames in the game, built correctly belong in A tier for the type of content their kit handles well.  The generalist frames that do everything really well like Khora are the ones I'd stick in S tier.  My B rank would be for single use application frames like Nekros.

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, stormy505 said:

Nidus has one of the best grouping cc abilities in the game. Only thing that deminishes it now is that you can use it on any frame now.

Inaros has a cc that ignores LOS and applies blind which increases damage of melee a LOT, the most fun I have in solo SP endurance runs is with a gloom umbral inaros with a gram prime riven. Although it's a redundant amount of survivability if you aren't going for a super long time, still fun.

Like, immortality is not actually that rare in Warframe, majority of Warframes have some way to never die. Same issue I have with nyx and people who use the 4 augment to be invincible at the cost of mobility and argue that's why that frame is literally God incarnate, oh you can't die? Get in line.

Tldr: survivability isn't the main reason those frames are considered better than grendel.

 

You can't say people aren't playing/building frost right when you only play limbo with a minimum range max duration build. Experiment with rift torrent and come back to me. Only reason limbo would be rated lower is cause pug players don't like playing with limbos who build him for cc AND damage and not just a small cc. But I don't rate Warframes based on limited builds.

 

I agree with your complaint about the descriptions not fitting. The way I look at the tiers is just how much a frame's niche is valued, tridolons are extremely high up in value because of how much you'll do them if you're looking for arcanes to sell for plat. Although voidrig kinda just trivializes the content, fastest completions use snipers due to time loss on going into the mech (apparently, according to a friend of mine who actually tries to speed run tridolons, I'm not too knowledgeable about the high end tridolon runs.)

But most other frames can do what Nidus and Inaros does but far better. Which is why they both should clock in at Inaros position or so. Nidus in A makes absolutely zero sense. Sure there was a time when he was A or near S, but that was a time when all content could be 1-shot by his #1 and there was no shield gate in the game. And now all frames have access to Larva as you say, which means any frame that actually invests in range already is a better Nidus for the group up job than Nidus is, even with the nerfed initial range of the helminth version. And the same deal goes for Inaros, he's outdated and now everyone has access to his blind, or even better radial blind. I just dont see what they bring that is better than even Grendel. His CC is superior, his buffs (even though they mainly stink) are better and his survivability surpasses both.

I've played Rift Torrent Limbo and my point was more that "how does Limbo end up as a JoaT when Frost doesnt?". A Frost is also more beneficial to the group and less intrusive, which also gives him bonus points and more reason to be in A tier instead of or with Limbo. It comes back to the Inaros, Nidus and Grendel thing, why are they in seperate groups?

They should have really skipped category descriptions as a whole since all the list shows is popularity, but not really for the reasons that each category is named. It also shows lack of understanding and simplemindedness regarding certain frames. The same misconceptions you can see in the in-game chat at times. So the list holds little concrete value.

If anything, a scoring system for different activities would be far more accurate, then based on that a meta score could be determined. Kinda like how you arrive at potential survival rate scores for people based on their different skills that may come in handly in such a situation. What the tier list shows is a high school populatiry contest at best.