Prime Resurgence Dev Workshop & FAQ

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

when DE themselves have said they are a free gift.

And that is a lie. Where on the Prime Vault page (https://www.warframe.com/prime-vault) does it call the included plat a """free""" """gift"""? Nowhere.

And they can retroactively call it whatever they want, it does not for a second change that it is a major part of the value of these packs, value which has been removed without adjusting the prices.

On 2021-11-02 at 12:05 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

But we understand that Platinum increases the value of the packs for players.

So where has this value been added back in at the accessories level? Nowhere. Half the value of the pack, gone.

Has this value been maintained by replacing it with 1/11th or 1/7th the amount of Endo you could have gotten with the plat from the pack/dual pack level? Of course not.

Stop weaseling around. Stop trying to deceive your fellow players into thinking the value has been maintained. Because it has not by any metric.

[DukeRukasu]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb ABlindGuyPlays:

I wouldn't go so far as to call people ignorant or tinfoil hat for being fearful of a company with a history of fair practices marred all throughout with instances of boneheadedness, much less calling the community 'whining and spoiled.'

That is just inflammatory and unproductive, and I will ask that you please not be antagonistic to people who are already on edge over the matter since it does nothing but make the situation worse.

Lol, which situation? This is actually non-issue and totally blown out of proportions imo.

Also inflammatory? Srsly? Whining and spoiled are inflammatory now? Well, I call it whining, when people complain this much about a little raise in price of a digital good, that has no real world use whatsoever, but is only for your digital entertainment.

But back to the main point: Your solution would make the plat inflation even worse, as people could buy these plat packs several times. While with unvaults there were 1-time offers only. So while it may look good to you the player, it would be super bad for the game economy

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

I'd be more inclined most of the people in this thread don't want Plat included with Aya so they can get free, easy plat that way. I might be wrong, you might be right. I'd probably ask those people who want it to be included, if they realise the issues it would create around that specifically and whether they would be fine with other alternatives. See, I'd assume many just default to that thinking because they, unlike you, as per your earlier statement, do see the bonus of Plat in those other bundles as a part of the value they are paying for. So they are looking for other ways to be compensated when they are getting Aya. I think many, if not most, knew they were getting what they perceived as the value equivalent of such discounted Plat even if its not discounted Plat they'd be fine. 

I just want something other than "we've sneakily removed about half the value", honestly. The added Endo doesn't cut it, part because it's untradeable as Endo, part because it's nowhere near enough Endo. Possible solutions I can think of is:

• Include enough Platinum with the purchase of R.Aya or the bundles to make up for the lack of it.
• Lower the price of R.Aya to make up for the lack of Platinum.
• Remove R.Aya entirely and have the items/bundles be buyable as with a regular unvaulting, with Platinum, but now with the added bonus of being able to buy single pieces individually.
• Sell the bundles with Platinum for cash as usual, have R.Aya be a currency for buying individual pieces and evergreen rewards, but without the Platinum. Combined with point 2 above.
• In the unvaulting bundles that previously included Platinum, have the R.Aya counterparts come with new Ayatan sculptures instead of pure Endo, because this is as close to tradeable Endo as we can get. With the unvaulting Platinum being multiples of 200, and fully socketed Ayatan Anasa sculptures (3450 Endo) going for a quite stable price of 12p, said new Ayatan sculptures should be worth 3450*200/12=57500 Endo. This way, players can still get Platinum from their purchase, Platinum isn't directly tied to the R.Aya, and no new Platinum is added into the system - everyone gets a bit of what they want.

But if DE actually needs to raise the price, I want them to have the courage to say it to our face instead of doing what they're currently doing. Because even if pure Endo was a tolerable substitute, which it isn't, what we're getting is waaayyy too low - see the math above.

[ABlindGuyPlays]

26 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

How do people even arrive at that logic? 

Please set the condescending to one side. I shall explain, again, since my past explanation has gotten lost in the shuffle.

 

Prime parts are an easy source of platinum. Trade value for vaulted parts is, in part, a function of their rarity. No guarantee you'll get the relic you want even when it is unvaulted combined with the more normal variability in getting what you want to come from the relic. On the one hand being able to farm the exact thing you want is amazing, wonderful, and needs to be commended because it allows you personally to get the thing you want with some work.

However as a function of those more desirable things being easier to access the prices will go down. in some instances where whole prime sets can cost three to five hundred plat? This is good. In other instances it also means those people who are less blessed with income they feel they can spare on entertainment have less options to generate plat for needed forma, slots, potatoes, etc (remember; new players only get two warframe slots, four weapon slots, and that starting warframe and gear is not potato'd. Forma at least is easy to farm for as a consequence of trying to get prime parts, so there is that.)

 

Naturally there are other sources of platinum in the form of mods (ranked and unranked,) gear from baro, rivens, etc. However that is a less sure way to make money as baro has to have the correct items in rotation, you have to have the credits and ducats to buy them, the rivens have to be the type someone is interested in, etc. 

So while sources of trade income will still exist, the convenience of getting parts you can accumulate and trade for plat outside of baro rotations is diminished. By how much I cannot say, but to go 'there is no value change you are insane' is a bit disingenuous.

Quote

if DE actually needs to raise the price, I want them to have the courage to say it to our face instead of doing what they're currently doing. Because even if pure Endo was a tolerable substitute, which it isn't, what we're getting is waaayyy too low - see the math above.

Agreed. While a compelling argument could be that they can't be that open due to causing investor panic. Them being open if there is a need to essentially give half the value for the price would go over a lot better than trying to go 'see gies everything's gucci if anything we're giving you MORE value.'

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

6 minutes ago, DukeRukasu said:

Lol, which situation? This is actually non-issue and totally blown out of proportions imo.

Also inflammatory? Srsly? Whining and spoiled are inflammatory now? Well, I call it whining, when people complain this much about a little raise in price of a digital good, that has no real world use whatsoever, but is only for your digital entertainment.

But back to the main point: Your solution would make the plat inflation even worse, as people could buy these plat packs several times. While with unvaults there were 1-time offers only. So while it may look good to you the player, it would be super bad for the game economy

1. When did roughly a 100% price increase become "a little raise in price"?

2. That's your main point here?? Mate, I got some bad news for you, then. You know what other plat packs are also buyable several times, and thus by your logic super bad for the game economy? These ones:

Oh look, they even introduce more Platinum into the game per dollar spent! Guess we better stop selling them too, huh?

Spoiler

Your entire main point is a non-issue, my dude.

[DukeRukasu]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Perfectly_Framed_Waifu:

1. When did roughly a 100% price increase become "a little raise in price"?

2. That's your main point here?? Mate, I got some bad news for you, then. You know what other plat packs are also buyable several times, and thus by your logic super bad for the game economy? These ones:

Oh look, they even introduce more Platinum into the game per dollar spent! Guess we better stop selling them too, huh?

  Inhalt unsichtbar machen

Your entire main point is a non-issue, my dude.

I am talking about discounted plat, what the vault packs clearly were. You could get infinite packs of discounted plat.

Also how on earth do you get 100%. 3 aya cost 20 bucks, with 3 Aya you can get a Accessoire-Pack without the 200 plat. So you wanna say 200 plat is also worth 20 bucks?

[(XBOX)Shodian]

22 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Remove R.Aya entirely and have the items/bundles be buyable as with a regular unvaulting, with Platinum, but now with the added bonus of being able to buy single pieces individually

Can't do this because previously you could only buy prime accessories with real money. So they have to keep that and platinum separate. 

[SephirothWS]

2 minutes ago, DukeRukasu said:

So you wanna say 200 plat is also worth 20 bucks?

20 bucks gets me 370 platinum direct from DE. Trying to say 200 plat is worth 20 bucks is overpricing it.

[Hypernaut1]

7 minutes ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

Please set the condescending to one side. I shall explain, again, since my past explanation has gotten lost in the shuffle.

 

Prime parts are an easy source of platinum. Trade value for vaulted parts is, in part, a function of their rarity. No guarantee you'll get the relic you want even when it is unvaulted combined with the more normal variability in getting what you want to come from the relic. On the one hand being able to farm the exact thing you want is amazing, wonderful, and needs to be commended because it allows you personally to get the thing you want with some work.

However as a function of those more desirable things being easier to access the prices will go down. in some instances where whole prime sets can cost three to five hundred plat? This is good. In other instances it also means those people who are less blessed with income they feel they can spare on entertainment have less options to generate plat for needed forma, slots, potatoes, etc (remember; new players only get two warframe slots, four weapon slots, and that starting warframe and gear is not potato'd. Forma at least is easy to farm for as a consequence of trying to get prime parts, so there is that.)

 

Naturally there are other sources of platinum in the form of mods (ranked and unranked,) gear from baro, rivens, etc. However that is a less sure way to make money as baro has to have the correct items in rotation, you have to have the credits and ducats to buy them, the rivens have to be the type someone is interested in, etc. 

So while sources of trade income will still exist, the convenience of getting parts you can accumulate and trade for plat outside of baro rotations is diminished. By how much I cannot say, but to go 'there is no value change you are insane' is a bit disingenuous.

Agreed. While a compelling argument could be that they can't be that open due to causing investor panic. Them being open if there is a need to essentially give half the value for the price would go over a lot better than trying to go 'see gies everything's gucci if anything we're giving you MORE value.'

ive traded for over 10k plat and prime frames only account for a small fraction of that. You're exaggerating. 

These conspiracy theories always change. One minute DE wants people to spend plat in the trade market to force new players to buy plat, now its DE wants to make it harder to earn plat to force people to buy plat. It doesn't make sense. If DE wants to get rid of plat, they simply can create plat sinks. Thats by far the best, easiest and most efficient way. 

This is 20+ pages of people complaining about 200p not coming with their custom ,optional, prime accessories pack. Everything else is easier to get. Accessories are easier to get. You get to choose what you want (no sugatra), you get access to noggles that were once exclusive to expensive prime access bundles, Schedule is known in advance- yet this is somehow scummy on the level of EA/Ubisoft???

[Hypernaut1]

4 minutes ago, SephirothWS said:

20 bucks gets me 370 platinum direct from DE. Trying to say 200 plat is worth 20 bucks is overpricing it.

"the 70 plat is not a bonus"

[SephirothWS]

3 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

"the 70 plat is not a bonus"

Well here its advertised as a bonus, so my $20 = 300 plat. Not 200. Do the math.

[ABlindGuyPlays]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

"the 70 plat is not a bonus"

Correct. I rather dislike the tactic of 'oh hey you're getting x bonus!' No that is simply what is in the pack. The 'bonus' argument is 'had you bought y amount of z item for this price you will get this much less than yo uwould get than buying THIS specific pack.'

[[DE]Danielle]

On 2021-11-12 at 11:44 PM, Wyrgula said:

So the Mesa Prime Alt Helm will cost how much?

1 Regal Aya! 

On 2021-11-13 at 2:26 PM, (XBOX)LadyWinterstorm said:

Wow, you'd think that they'd have a Screenshot like that in the OP.

thanks for the info, i didn't manage to watch Prime Time this week

It is in the FAQ :) 

Quote

What is Aya and Regal Aya? 

These are the currencies that are used to purchase items from Varzia! 

Aya is an earned currency that is your free path to gaining Prime items through the in-game Relic system. It is a resource that is exchanged for Void Relics and other non-premium items available in Varzia’s wares. Aya is found in Missions (The Void or Bounties) or has a chance of appearing in Relic Packs available for purchase in the Market for Platinum or Syndicate Offerings for Standing.

Aya will be replacing Vaulted Relics in the Void and Bounties Drop Tables. In other words, where there was once a Vaulted Relic, there will now be 1 Aya instead. And that Aya can be traded in at Varzia to purchase Relics of your choosing during Prime Resurgence. 

The public Drop Tables will be updated on November 16th when the event begins to include Aya, so that you have all the information you need to plan your missions to Aya acquiring!

Regal Aya is a premium currency (similar to Platinum, but not tradeable) that gives you instant access to Prime Warframes, Weapons, Accessories, and Bundles available in Varzia’s wares. It can be purchased in the Market or online storefronts. 

 

On 2021-11-13 at 7:57 PM, petersenpup2 said:

Will the Warframes and weapons come with slots? Or do we have to buy the slots?

From the FAQ:

Quote

 

Do the Prime Warframes and Weapons come with Inventory Slots, Orokin Catalysts and Orokin Reactors? 

Yes! If you purchase a Prime Warframe or Weapon with Regal Aya, it will come with an Inventory slot and either an Orokin Reactor or Catalyst already installed. 

 

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

29 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Remove R.Aya entirely and have the items/bundles be buyable as with a regular unvaulting, with Platinum, but now with the added bonus of being able to buy single pieces individually

Can't do this because previously you could only buy prime accessories with real money. So they have to keep that and platinum separate. 

"You can't buy prime accessories with real money because previously you could only buy prime accessories with real money." What the flying f*** are you even saying, mate??

[ABlindGuyPlays]

1 minute ago, [DE]Danielle said:

1 Regal Aya! 

thank you for updating the FAQ ma'am. I understand this move is controversial and... well look at it. Essentially over the weekend we've gotten 27 pages of discussion and...

I've made my position clear on disliking how thigns stand At Current, but it is absolutely and 100% adjustable to go from feeling sketchy to feelign satisfying. I want to hope that happens as the system, minus the jank, is honestly exciting. Fix the problem and it suddenly becomes a pure value add for everyone while makign DE lots of money.

[SephirothWS]

Going by the pricing on this page, 200 platinum is roughly a $13~$14 value given $5 gets you 75 platinum, $15 can get you 225 + 20 bonus, so lacking the 200 platinum from the pack is a decrease in value by approximately $13~$14. This is what is wrong with Paya

[OP-R8R]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1:

DE has clearly states tencent is being laissez faire with them. 

Sure, as long DE meets the set profit margin for Tencent.

Oh... and... out of pure curiosity... have you ever been introduced to the concept of a "lie"?

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

2 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

It is in the FAQ :) 

Could we get an answer to the more frequently asked question - why this obfuscated price hike? Endo is not an acceptable substitute for Platinum. At the very least, it should come in the form of tradeable Ayatan sculptures, with an Endo value of about 500% the currently planned.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

3 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

I just want something other than "we've sneakily removed about half the value", honestly. The added Endo doesn't cut it, part because it's untradeable as Endo, part because it's nowhere near enough Endo. Possible solutions I can think of is:

• Include enough Platinum with the purchase of R.Aya or the bundles to make up for the lack of it.
• Lower the price of R.Aya to make up for the lack of Platinum.
• Remove R.Aya entirely and have the items/bundles be buyable as with a regular unvaulting, with Platinum, but now with the added bonus of being able to buy single pieces individually.
• Sell the bundles with Platinum for cash as usual, have R.Aya be a currency for buying individual pieces and evergreen rewards, but without the Platinum. Combined with point 2 above.
• In the unvaulting bundles that previously included Platinum, have the R.Aya counterparts come with new Ayatan sculptures instead of pure Endo, because this is as close to tradeable Endo as we can get. With the unvaulting Platinum being multiples of 200, and fully socketed Ayatan Anasa sculptures (3450 Endo) going for a quite stable price of 12p, said new Ayatan sculptures should be worth 3450*200/12=57500 Endo. This way, players can still get Platinum from their purchase, Platinum isn't directly tied to the R.Aya, and no new Platinum is added into the system - everyone gets a bit of what they want.

But if DE actually needs to raise the price, I want them to have the courage to say it to our face instead of doing what they're currently doing. Because even if pure Endo was a tolerable substitute, which it isn't, what we're getting is waaayyy too low - see the math above.

 

Yeah I agree with the spirit of your points. I also wouldn't want to be the person who has to decide, since its such a contentious issue. So much so, I can understand why people are trying to figure out why DE is doing this and the motivations behind it, which is its own complicated mess of a subject. At the very least though, I can speak for myself and reiterate that as someone who enjoys Warframe enough to often give it money, Regal Aya does feel a bit off. 

As an individual I know, if a game does do something I aren't a fan of, I can just stop supporting it, as a fan of Warframe and DE though, I also appreciate what I consider good customer relations, and practices. Not that they should necessarily listen to all feedback, I don't think fans or DE themselves are a monolith, but eh. Just as an example, Regal Aya doesn't really feel like an alternative to PA/Unvaulting, it feels like it wants many people to double down (get the Prime Access or Unvault for the Plat/Boosters and also get Regal Aya to get all those pieces you missed over the years) and then also condition newer, less experienced players to favour Regal Aya, because of its perceived advantages. Like you don't really just introduce a new Premium currency overnight just for the sake of it... and I get that DE can't just be ultra transparent and blunt about such motivations, but that lack of transparency is going to create issues and confusion and skepticism.

When I first came to Warframe, it took me a while to realise a Prime Access was really more about buying discounted Platinum. The friends that got me into Warframe tried explaining that I could just learn to sell stuff and then buy the Prime Frame. A lot of them were FTP players though, and I am more okay with spending real money for stuff like cosmetics. Regal Aya does give choice and flexibility, which is good, but it also can give the illusion of choice, to someone who doesn't realise what Plat can do. Since its not tradable either, you can have more control/predictability over its uses. Personally I'd even be sympathetic to DE for trying to solve the host of issues that will accompany crossplay as far as their premium currency, but I also know that its going to create a lot of issues for a bunch pf players who rely on grinding for stuff to sell for their own plat and just all those complications. 

[DukeRukasu]

Gerade eben schrieb SephirothWS:

20 bucks gets me 370 platinum direct from DE. Trying to say 200 plat is worth 20 bucks is overpricing it.

Yeah, this is exactly what i try to say: 200 =/=20 Plat.

So it is not a 100% price rise

[PublikDomain]

14 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

"the 70 plat is not a bonus"

Of course the 70p is a bonus. Notice how it's advertised as such?

Where is that advertisement in Prime Vault packs?

Nowhere. Because in Prime Vault and Prime Access it's not a """bonus""". It's got more advertising real estate than the accessories themselves! Maybe it calls it a bonus in the FAQ? Nope:

Quote

What is Prime Vault?

Prime Vault is an extension of the Prime Access program. Prime Vault is a limited-time only, rotating program reintroducing previously retired Prime Warframes and Prime Gear available as a bundle with discounted Platinum.

It's discounted, sure, but it ain't free nor a gift nor a bonus. You're paying money for it.

[(PSN)FabianaGondim]

I have been buying these Prime Acess and Prime Vault's Pack since i started playing because i really enjoyed the game, so i wanted to suport them and the most important, the platinums helped me a lot to get ahead in the game, but their justification for not putting platinum instead of endo is ridiculous, even more ridiculous is having to pay to buy something in-game.. Everything was going well with Prime Vault's Pack, i don't know why they want to mess up with it like that.. I would buy it if it were platinum, but since it's not, i'll wait..

[(XBOX)Shodian]

13 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

"You can't buy prime accessories with real money because previously you could only buy prime accessories with real money." What the flying f*** are you even saying, mate??

You seem to not be understanding. Let me explain again. In the history of Warframr up to this point you were never able to buy prime accessories with Platinum. Only through the exchange of real currency outside of the game. 

Now, they are offering prime accessories inside the game. And since they want to keep it so you can't spend Platinum on it, they have made a new currency that you can exchange with real money to buy said accessories. 

They wish to keep being able to buy the accessories with Platinum. I hope you are able to understand that better.

[ABlindGuyPlays]

1 minute ago, PublikDomain said:

Of course the 70p is a bonus. Notice how it's advertised as such?

As I said on the prior page:
This is a bonus only as compared to spending the same amount of money for lower tier packs. If you consistently get that same 'bonus' every time you by a specific pack tier (say the twenty dollar pack wit ha supposed seventy plat bonus) it is no longer 'bonus' it is simply what the pac is.  This talk of 'bonus' that I have seen many latch onto as a 'gotem' moment? I would request that you try finding something else to focus on, as that is a pure marketing gimmick to show the 'value' of buying, say, a twenty dollar plat pack vs four five dollar packs and thus encourage bigger purchases rather than spaced out little purchases.. 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Oh one thing I wanted to raise that I hope gets attention or notice by the powers to be!! 

Could we get previews of the stuff that Regal Aya will get us? Like if thats possible? Like are we going to be able to see what such armours and sigils look like? Whenever there is a Prime Accessories, whether its Unvault or from Access, it can be hard to imagine what the items might look like on certain Warframes. I do usually Youtube and hope someone has videos of them with the Accessories and make observations of that, but sometimes its really hard to actually find what some of the accessories look like. Being able to preview them, would be a big help and benefit to someone like me! If possible. Thanks!