DE really did the Sentients dirty in The new war...

[cute_moth.npc]

I guess my only disappointment is that I really thought it was leading up to something: getting the anti sentient arm cannon, tau resistance mods, sentient slaying sword..

It sort of signaled that New War was going to be when Sentient enemies became a real faction to fight instead of something squirreled away like a little side project,

It was actually the curtain call from the look of it though ^^;

[Leqesai]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)ARC_Paroe said:

Kahl is an elite lancer, probably. Im not seeing this "eximus trim" thats been mentioned, but Kahl - by virtue of his tank and apparant armor value - is not likely to be a simple lancer AND because he lacks any form of eximus ability, is not likely to be an eximus. He was, as far as we know, 100% mundane. 

Elite lancer yes. That's the unit I was thinking of when I wrote lancer. Thanks for clarifying.

[DreisterDino]

Do you still remember late 2019 when The New War suddenly got delayed with the following reasoning:

 

 

"Its a war"..."wars have starts"..."wars take time" followed by some statements about how Rising Tide is a "Sneak Peak" because of like one or two lines of text. Other statements like "The New war starts before christmas": How? With what kind of Event? This one mission in Railjack? Ok i guess. Or "A war should be an ongoing thing and shouldnt be concluded in just one Quest"

 

I know some people like to argue how it was on ongoing war (because of Scarlet Spear and this 2 super short mini Quests), but lets be honest, did anyone feel like there was a war going on? I certainly did not. And what about the statement that it shouldnt end in one single cinematic quest? Well, i guess time will tell, but since we are on the Zariman now (which really hasnt to do a lot with the whole New War) i dont see any big Updates that could result in an actual "war-feeling".

 

So, while i enjoyed playing the new war, this was really disappointing. And watching that Devstream again just shows how much empty words are thrown around: Modular Archwing? "Not in the last Update of 2019"...ok, and not 2020...or 2021...or 2022... Railjack? "Just the tip of the iceberg so far"...yeah.

[-Moctezuma-]

1 minute ago, DreisterDino said:

Do you still remember late 2019 when The New War suddenly got delayed with the following reasoning:

 

 

"Its a war"..."wars have starts"..."wars take time" followed by some statements about how Rising Tide is a "Sneak Peak" because of like one or two lines of text. Other statements like "The New war starts before christmas": How? With what kind of Event? This one mission in Railjack? Ok i guess. Or "A war should be an ongoing thing and shouldnt be concluded in just one Quest"

 

I know some people like to argue how it was on ongoing war (because of Scarlet Spear and this 2 super short mini Quests), but lets be honest, did anyone feel like there was a war going on? I certainly did not. And what about the statement that it shouldnt end in one single cinematic quest? Well, i guess time will tell, but since we are on the Zariman now (which really hasnt to do a lot with the whole New War) i dont see any big Updates that could result in an actual "war-feeling".

 

So, while i enjoyed playing the new war, this was really disappointing. And watching that Devstream again just shows how much empty words are thrown around: Modular Archwing? "Not in the last Update of 2019"...ok, and not 2020...or 2021...or 2022... Railjack? "Just the tip of the iceberg so far"...yeah.

So DE pretty much undelivered

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

3 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

Do you still remember late 2019 when The New War suddenly got delayed with the following reasoning:

 

 

"Its a war"..."wars have starts"..."wars take time" followed by some statements about how Rising Tide is a "Sneak Peak" because of like one or two lines of text. Other statements like "The New war starts before christmas": How? With what kind of Event? This one mission in Railjack? Ok i guess. Or "A war should be an ongoing thing and shouldnt be concluded in just one Quest"

 

I know some people like to argue how it was on ongoing war (because of Scarlet Spear and this 2 super short mini Quests), but lets be honest, did anyone feel like there was a war going on? I certainly did not. And what about the statement that it shouldnt end in one single cinematic quest? Well, i guess time will tell, but since we are on the Zariman now (which really hasnt to do a lot with the whole New War) i dont see any big Updates that could result in an actual "war-feeling".

 

So, while i enjoyed playing the new war, this was really disappointing. And watching that Devstream again just shows how much empty words are thrown around: Modular Archwing? "Not in the last Update of 2019"...ok, and not 2020...or 2021...or 2022... Railjack? "Just the tip of the iceberg so far"...yeah.

Its not like DE cant salvage the situation though, sort of. 

Also "the new war" was not named the new war because of what happened during the meat of that quest line - that was quite literally finishing up the old war. The last of the old blood, silenced, and the sentients... I dont actually know what the sentients wanted in the first place. They seem very disjointed and, except for story pieces, mechanical and unthinking. 
"The new war" was named as such for the events of the last cutscene, where something finally got out of the void and it will be OUR job as tenno to stop whatever it wants to do in realspace. 

[DreisterDino]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb (PSN)ARC_Paroe:

Also "the new war" was not named the new war because of what happened during the meat of that quest line - that was quite literally finishing up the old war. The last of the old blood, silenced, and the sentients... I dont actually know what the sentients wanted in the first place. They seem very disjointed and, except for story pieces, mechanical and unthinking. 
"The new war" was named as such for the events of the last cutscene, where something finally got out of the void and it will be OUR job as tenno to stop whatever it wants to do in realspace. 

Well, all i can say is that its not me who started to make a big deal out of a single word (war).

 

It was DE who basically based their whole reasoning on why we dont get a Quest before Christmas on the implications of that word. Like this whole "ongoing" thing. I just say that now that its out, i havent felt like there was any ongoing war, and that i think that this Quest was the full conclusion of this whole story arc. So basically, everything they supposedly didnt want to do still happened exactly like that, just years later.

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, -Moctezuma- said:

So DE pretty much undelivered

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, Leqesai said:

The game hasn't specifically stated he is an eximus. He might have "eximus trim" but that doesn't make him an eximus unit. He doesn't have any eximus powers and there is no lore supporting he is anything but a regular lancer. Again, you're fan theorying on this. The game hasn't said he is or is not an eximus so we can't just assume he is. You can have a mountain of corroborating information but unless the game says he is, he isn't.

Again, the level of denial, that you would write off canon evidence as a fan theory, is just astounding

[(PSN)gadgaurd]

6 hours ago, -Moctezuma- said:

There are no spoilers here, but just gonna say, a regular grineer is able to take down an army of 50 sentients by himself...just using a grakata ?

Two things here.

 

1: Sentients are bad against low tech weaponry. The Grineer as a military force exist, at least in part, because a Grineer laborer killed a sentient with a freaking shovel. 

 

You also see this in play with the Tenno themselves. Braton? Burston? Skana? 

 

2: Clearly this particular Grineer wasn't average. Mutations among the clones happen. This was one. Pretty much every OTHER Grineer of the same rank got absolutely bodied.

[Leqesai]

13 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Again, the level of denial, that you would write off canon evidence as a fan theory, is just astounding

That is a pretty rude response. I am not saying anything to offend you so why would you take this approach to me. If you have a valid argument, use that to defend your position. The way you're choosing to interact here is not productive.

I'm welcome to be proven wrong, but you've yet to say anything that compels your argument past un-cited theorizing. 

Also, there is a huge difference between "canon evidence" and "fan theory"

I've specifically said there is nothing canon about Kahl being an eximus and your response is that he has eximus markings. Do you have any other evidence he is an eximus unit? The wiki sure doesn't say anything about him being an eximus unit. Nothing I remember from the quest itself indicated he was an eximus unit (outside of the markings which if I am totally being honest don't seem to match up eximus markings for elite lancers anyway... the model is unique to Kahl. While there are many similarities to the regular elite lancers there are also many differences that are not "eximus" in nature).

 

[-Moctezuma-]

DE why DE why

[TARINunit9]

37 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

That is a pretty rude response. I am not saying anything to offend you so why would you take this approach to me. If you have a valid argument, use that to defend your position. The way you're choosing to interact here is not productive.

I'm starting to get desensitized to bad-faith arguments. If you are truly offering good-faith arguments then I apologize

37 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I've specifically said there is nothing canon about Kahl being an eximus and your response is that he has eximus markings. Do you have any other evidence he is an eximus unit? 

I answer this question with another question: do I NEED any other evidence he is an Eximus unit? In a court of law we would call this a "Res ipsa loquitur": the thing speaks for itself. If he wears the armor of a unit, what reason do we have to doubt that he is that unit? It speaks for itself just by being there

40 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

(outside of the markings which if I am totally being honest don't seem to match up eximus markings for elite lancers anyway... the model is unique to Kahl. 

He does have unique battle damage sculpted onto his model, but not nearly enough to obscure his Eximus markings

For point of comparison, here is an Eximus from the codex (alternate angle) and here is Kahl. Kahl does have different chest armor, but that doesn't really fir either of our arguments

[(PSN)TastyJelloGolem]

30 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I'm starting to get desensitized to bad-faith arguments. If you are truly offering good-faith arguments then I apologize

I answer this question with another question: do I NEED any other evidence he is an Eximus unit? In a court of law we would call this a "Res ipsa loquitur": the thing speaks for itself. If he wears the armor of a unit, what reason do we have to doubt that he is that unit? It speaks for itself just by being there

He does have unique battle damage sculpted onto his model, but not nearly enough to obscure his Eximus markings

For point of comparison, here is an Eximus from the codex (alternate angle) and here is Kahl. Kahl does have different chest armor, but that doesn't really fir either of our arguments

So i just looked in the codex and the elite lancer and elite lancer eximus have the same armor and paint style. The only difference is the standard units is more faded and the eximus has an aura. So your argument doesn't hold water. Especially since khal doesn't have any of the eximus related abilities attached.

[TARINunit9]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)TastyJelloGolem said:

So i just looked in the codex and the elite lancer and elite lancer eximus have the same armor and paint style. The only difference is the standard units is more faded and the eximus has an aura. So your argument doesn't hold water. Especially since khal doesn't have any of the eximus related abilities attached.

The pattern is the same, but normal Lancers are just painted on while Eximi have silver leaf. Kahl has a silver leaf, Kahl is an Eximus

[(PSN)TastyJelloGolem]

7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

The pattern is the same, but normal Lancers are just painted on while Eximi have silver leaf. Kahl has a silver leaf, Kahl is an Eximus

So i just pulled multiple pictures of khal and his armor is blue. Not silver. It matches the basic elite lancer not the eximus. I agree with the other guy. You're pushing a pet theory you want to be true. Even to the point you're ignoring the fact he has blue armor and are saying it's silver just to be correct.

[TARINunit9]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)TastyJelloGolem said:

So i just pulled multiple pictures of khal and his armor is blue. Not silver.

Silver over blue, that's what "leaf" means in the term "gold/silver leaf"

[(PSN)TastyJelloGolem]

5 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Silver over blue, that's what "leaf" means in the term "gold/silver leaf"

I know what leaf means. Also i just rewatched the game play for it. The online pics including the one you just attached do a poor job of actually showing the leaf. With that being said his armor paint stle before it is so heavily scuffed at the beginning of the level matches a basic elite to a T. He's a normal basic elite lancer. Go look at your codex again. They have the same aqua blue on silver he has. The only real difference in basic and eximus is paint color an aura. Both of which dont match as an eximus.

[TARINunit9]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)TastyJelloGolem said:

I know what leaf means. Also i just rewatched the game play for it. The online pics including the one you just attached do a poor job of actually showing the leaf. With that being said his armor paint stle before it is so heavily scuffed at the beginning of the level matches a basic elite to a T. He's a normal basic elite lancer. Go look at your codex again. They have the same aqua blue on silver he has. The only real difference in basic and eximus is paint color an aura. Both of which dont match as an eximus.

I decided to put my money where my mouth is and go through every single Lancer in the game and check their coloration. I didn't just go through a wiki or gameplay footage, I went to the Simulacrum and spawned them to check. Would you like to see my conclusions?

Spoiler

NON-EXIMUS

Standard lancer: sea-green base, blue pattern
Drekar: indigo base, cyan pattern
Frontier: green base, brown pattern
Kuva: black base, red pattern
Arid: tan base, brown pattern
Nightwatch: black base, purple pattern, blood trim on the helmet
Railjack (Kosma/Gyre/Exo): white base, no pattern

EXIMUS - every single above "subfaction" of Grineer uses the same colors for all Eximus

Energy leech: black base, grey pattern
Shock: orange base, black pattern
Arson: black base, red pattern
Arctic: blue base, white pattern
Leech: green base, black pattern
Blitz: orange base, light grey pattern

Very tellingly, absolutely NONE of these colors, base or pattern, are reflective silver

Last but not least we have an official Kahl statue. Comparing this to Kahl's colors to the in-game colors, both normal and Eximus, Kahl matches none of them.

None. Kahl's paint scheme is completely new. Both his silver and his blue are unique. I officially have no idea what Kahl is. I'm not going to speculate if Kahl is intended to be a PBR Rendering update of the classic Lancer model, much less which one he's supposed to be an update of. I throw up my hands. Kahl is Kahl. He could be a bunk private or an Eximus general for all the evidence we have

@LeqesaiI figure you might wanna know this too. I also apologize a second time for my initial hostilities

[(PSN)TastyJelloGolem]

12 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I decided to put my money where my mouth is and go through every single Lancer in the game and check their coloration. I didn't just go through a wiki or gameplay footage, I went to the Simulacrum and spawned them to check. Would you like to see my conclusions?

  Reveal hidden contents

NON-EXIMUS

Standard lancer: sea-green base, blue pattern
Drekar: indigo base, cyan pattern
Frontier: green base, brown pattern
Kuva: black base, red pattern
Arid: tan base, brown pattern
Nightwatch: black base, purple pattern, blood trim on the helmet
Railjack (Kosma/Gyre/Exo): white base, no pattern

EXIMUS - every single above "subfaction" of Grineer uses the same colors for all Eximus

Energy leech: black base, grey pattern
Shock: orange base, black pattern
Arson: black base, red pattern
Arctic: blue base, white pattern
Leech: green base, black pattern
Blitz: orange base, light grey pattern

Very tellingly, absolutely NONE of these colors, base or pattern, are reflective silver

Last but not least we have an official Kahl statue. Comparing this to Kahl's colors to the in-game colors, both normal and Eximus, Kahl matches none of them.

None. Kahl's paint scheme is completely new. Both his silver and his blue are unique. I officially have no idea what Kahl is. I'm not going to speculate if Kahl is intended to be a PBR Rendering update of the classic Lancer model, much less which one he's supposed to be an update of. I throw up my hands. Kahl is Kahl. He could be a bunk private or an Eximus general for all the evidence we have

@LeqesaiI figure you might wanna know this too. I also apologize a second time for my initial hostilities

I think you might be right about it being a PBR pass for the lancer that didn't make it in game. I rewatched the quest and he definitely had a grakata in his hand when he crashed before he hit the ground. A elite lancer carries a hind. Also when he takes the prime corinth from rhino all of the other grineer have the same style armor.

[TARINunit9]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)TastyJelloGolem said:

and he definitely had a grakata in his hand when he crashed before he hit the ground. A elite lancer carries a hind. 

OK this is something separate that I also checked in the Simulacrum: Elite Lancers and Standard Lancers (Eximus and otherwise) use the same colors, the only difference is their weaponry and Alloy/Ferrite armor

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

I decided to put my money where my mouth is and go through every single Lancer in the game and check their coloration. I didn't just go through a wiki or gameplay footage, I went to the Simulacrum and spawned them to check. Would you like to see my conclusions?

  Hide contents

NON-EXIMUS

Standard lancer: sea-green base, blue pattern
Drekar: indigo base, cyan pattern
Frontier: green base, brown pattern
Kuva: black base, red pattern
Arid: tan base, brown pattern
Nightwatch: black base, purple pattern, blood trim on the helmet
Railjack (Kosma/Gyre/Exo): white base, no pattern

EXIMUS - every single above "subfaction" of Grineer uses the same colors for all Eximus

Energy leech: black base, grey pattern
Shock: orange base, black pattern
Arson: black base, red pattern
Arctic: blue base, white pattern
Leech: green base, black pattern
Blitz: orange base, light grey pattern

Very tellingly, absolutely NONE of these colors, base or pattern, are reflective silver

Last but not least we have an official Kahl statue. Comparing this to Kahl's colors to the in-game colors, both normal and Eximus, Kahl matches none of them.

None. Kahl's paint scheme is completely new. Both his silver and his blue are unique. I officially have no idea what Kahl is. I'm not going to speculate if Kahl is intended to be a PBR Rendering update of the classic Lancer model, much less which one he's supposed to be an update of. I throw up my hands. Kahl is Kahl. He could be a bunk private or an Eximus general for all the evidence we have

@LeqesaiI figure you might wanna know this too. I also apologize a second time for my initial hostilities

I think your findings prove one thing, which is what I previously said. Kahl is a unique model and should not be judged by virtue of other types of units because there is no lore to support why he is unique. 

Thanks for going ingame to do the research. Your findings are really helpful. In trying to get to the bottom of this I scoured the internet and there is barely any information on texture differences between the models.

[Kaotyke]

10 hours ago, Leqesai said:

This isn't really a confirmation of anything though. He has no eximus powers and there is no lore to suggest he is an eximus. What you're describing is, at best, coincidental and/or fan-theory stuff. 

He has Eximus Armor Patern.

Health Orbs appear on some Kills.

He is a Leech Eximus.

[SneakyErvin]

I think TNW is the first time DE gets sentients right. They are adaptable to advanced weaponry, which is why warframes were created to combat them with "gun and blade". And last I checked, Grineer are as low-tech as it gets when it comes to weaponry. So it makes sense Kahl does what Kahl does.

As to TNW as a whole. I dont think DE underdelivered, I think people just take the fighting sentients and you know who part as being TNW, when really TNW may have just started and all we did was finish up the old war. Since we kinda started a new war with you know who #2.

[Leqesai]

6 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

He has Eximus Armor Patern.

Health Orbs appear on some Kills.

He is a Leech Eximus.

Lol

[Genitive]

6 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

He is a Leech Eximus.

He stole our hearts, he's a casanova eximus.